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Author
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Topic: Let's get some yotes.
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 03, 2005 11:36 PM
OK here is my problem, I have a large chunk of private property to hunt coyotes (and a bobcat) on. I have tons of coyotes and in fact they sometimes keep the farmer awake at night with all the howling. The first time I went there to hunt I had a yote come in within 30 seconds after a short 15 second call. Since then I have been unable to call in a single coyote. I have seen a few but they were always on the run. To make things worse it is a short range weapons area. Shotgun only.
OK here is the layout of the land. I will try to be very descriptive because there are so many set opportunities. Here goes.
The property is somewhat rectangular in shape. The property runs east to west and is parallel with the snake river canyon. It is on top of the canyon. The rectangle is divided east from west by a rapid elevation change of maybe 100 feet. This wall, if you will, runs roughly NNW to SSE. At the north end of the wall it curves east into a draw or box canyon that is about 300 yards north to south and about 600 yards long. Midway along this wall is another eastward depression that is more of a large bowl than a draw. It is about 400 yards across and 600 yards long as well. Then the wall continues SSE to the main drop off into the Snake river canyon. Running along the bottom of the wall is an irrigation canal. It does not follow the contour of the two canyons. It runs fairly straight. It seems to be the highway for the coyotes passing by the farm house when going north or sout on this lower level. The upper level is flat and open. The property line on the east side is bordered by sage desert for miles and miles. The lower level is mostly cultivated farm land with cattle in different sections depending on the farmers needs. The north canyon is very rocky but terminates in a burned through, cattail slough/miny wetlands area that still has some reeds clumps in it and is about 70 yards across in both directions. The southern canyon has less steep sides and they are like the sage desert.
I hope that isn't too confusing.
I have exclusive run of the property for yotes but the main hand who lives in the farmers down stairs appartment also spotlights for them every once in a while. He claims that he uses no calls at all. I can hunt any spot I want as long as it isn't near the cattle. He dosen't care if I shoot near the buildings as long as he knows I am doing it and everyone is awake. Otherwise I can hunt in the mornings or evenings at my discretion. He would also allow spotlighting.
The area has deer, coyotes, ground squirrels, badgers, rabbits, hawks, crows, magpies, phesant (which my wife hunts there) and at least one yellow eyed bob cat (within 100 yards of the house).
The wind is usually west to east. Entrance to the property is usually from the west as well but sometimes the east gate is unlocked.
I hope this helps more than confuses the main question. The question is what I can do to get some very savvy yotes to show themselves at at least slug range. Mouth blown rabbit calls aren't producing and the new electronic call hasn't helped.
OK lets hear it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 04, 2005 12:01 AM
Hope this helps.
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 04, 2005 05:22 AM
Find a spot with a good rabbit population, where the cows like to graze and the soil is sandy. Coyotes don't like to spend a lot of time on the rocks.
Find a place that gives you good visibility, set your caller in a bush 30-50 yards away, with the volume just a little louder than a real rabbit can scream.
Don't change the volume or the sound, just sit tight for 30 minutes. Constantly scanning from side to side with your eyes.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 04, 2005 06:53 AM
Dog up, Along with Tim's excellent advice I would add change up call sounds quite often. You did not say if you had a E-caller are not. If you do use completely different sounds on each stand. One sound I have found to be excellent is baby pigs. It actually seems to work better in arias that have no pigs. Keep us posted on you're progress.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted December 04, 2005 08:41 AM
I am curious about a couple of things you have said. Let's start with the fact that they are running every time you see them. That might suggest that they are being shot at from vehicles on a regular basis. If that is true then the ranch hand does not abide by the Shotguns only restriction. If by chance he is sticking to the shotgun rule, then I would bet he is calling them for a closer approach to the light you mentioned.
If you detect some scepticism coming through my post ...you are right. I can't tell you the number of times I have found assurances to me about who when where and what were simply inaccurate if not outright intentional falsehoods.
If I were a betting man I would lay my money on the fact that these dogs have had some calling pressure. That does not mean you will not have any success. It may mean that you want to modify your approach. Tim and Varmit Hunter have made some good suggestions to get you started towards success.
I want to echo Varmit Hunters input about using different sounds. I always assume that others are using the most logical choices to call with and that is rabbit distress. I usually recommend using something odd or different to try and appeal to the coyotes sense of curiosity or territorial senses. Our Grey Fox\Coyote mix would be one alternative. Any of the domestic animal distresses (pigs, goats, housecat, etc..etc) would be good alternatives.
You lost me about a third of the way through the land description. I think you should simply use good set ups and sound selections regardless of where you are. I think it is a good bet that there will be coyotes just about anywhere on the property. It will be more productive to zero in on areas where they are more likely to be in larger numbers.
Tims suggestion about soil is heading you in that direction. You might also consider other factors like where are the cows calving. Where the newborns are, the coyotes will be. They like to eat the first nutrient rich droppings of the calves and any left over placenta material that mom does not eat and occassionally a calve on the way out.
The analysis of best areas of cover will have to be left to others since I have not hunted that area and do not know what your terrain looks like. I can suggest some good rule of thumb points for your consideration though. Maybe some of these will help.
1. Scout, scout, scout....not only for coyote sign but good calling stands. I believe two of the most important variables to pay attention to, are for you to know where they are hanging and then to give yourself a good chance to see them when they approach.
2.Use an effective sound...this is third on my list because if they can't hear you and you don't give yourself a chance to see or shoot at them, then the importance of sound is a moot point. You could be Rich Higgins sitting out there doing your pied piper imitation and that still would not be a guarentee of success if you have not made a good choice on the first two variables.
3. Wind in your face or at least a cross wind if you can not find a still day.
4. Employ a decoy if possible. Any movement of a somewhat recognizable material will be a plus.
5. I am becoming a big fan of 3-D camo. Get some if you do not already have some.
6. Buddy hunt to be able to more effectively cover 360 degrees.
7. Use some coyote vocalizations in the mix to give yourself a better chance of giving them something they haven't heard. Rich you want to chime in here......
8. Study up on the use of scents to cover or attract at your stands. Read up on misting or consider taking a container of birthing material or other attractant to set at your stand.
9. I believe that when shotgunning, it is best to leave the sound running and reduce it's volume slowly over the life of the stand to draw them right down in on top of you. Stopping a sound as they approach many times will cause them to stop to look around. That's fine if they hangup to a rifle but you will need them to keep coming. That combined with good camo and good stand selection will get dirt kicked on you when they wheel to run. Then you can make a real good Texas heart shot on them. A load of 4 Buck at 5 yards right up the Anus does little pelt damage.
10. Elevation is still important, even for shotgunning if you can achieve it. Side of hill, bush on a knoll...you get the jest.
These are just a few of the suggestions that can be made for the multitude of variables that come into play at each stand. Experience will be your best teacher though. The first two points in this list were in order of importance but all the rest should not be taken as more important than another. They all come into play. Good luck and good hunting.
psst...hey Dog up.....step over here. If that description of the land thing was an attempt to look as highly technical as some of these guys try to appear....I just went on a campout with them and know first hand that they snore and fart just like all the rest of us. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Welcome aboard.
[ December 04, 2005, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 04, 2005 10:07 AM
quote:
I am curious about a couple of things you have said. Let's start with the fact that they are running every time you see them. That might suggest that they are being shot at from vehicles on a regular basis. If that is true then the ranch hand does not abide by the Shotguns only restriction. If by chance he is sticking to the shotgun rule, then I would bet he is calling them for a closer approach to the light you mentioned.
You nailed it. However there was no deception. They came out and told me they use rifles. They didn't say they used them from a truck though. They are great people and they really want me to wipe out the yotes for them. They will do what they can to help me.
quote:
1. Scout, scout, scout....not only for coyote sign but good calling stands. I believe two of the most important variables to pay attention to, are for you to know where they are hanging and then to give yourself a good chance to see them when they approach.
I know most of what there is to know about the lay of the land and where the coyotes congregate. Every evening they howl from the upper canyon and the area south of the lower depression near the rim of the snake river canyon. Late at night they also run the canal. The cows are in one of the fields near the house but never more than 1/4 mile from any other spot they have been kept.
I can position myself at any position along the rim of the wall that I want. It allows me a birds eye view of most of the farm and surrounding desert.
I have also recently been able to view the hunting area with Google Earth 3D maps.
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2.Use an effective sound
I will start using a fawn in distress and that piglet call sounds like a good idea. It is very hard to NOT use a rabbit sound. I keep thinking that it will work the next time.
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4. Employ a decoy if possible. Any movement of a somewhat recognizable material will be a plus.
5. I am becoming a big fan of 3-D camo. Get some if you do not already have some.
Crow decoy standing over a rabit decoy worked well on this farm but only one single time.
Modified ghillie cammo has also let yotes come to within feet of me on this farm.
I also use white lightning odor neutralizer.
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7. Use some coyote vocalizations in the mix to give yourself a better chance of giving them something they haven't heard. Rich you want to chime in here......
YES PLEASE!!! I want more on this part. I have tried this but when nothing came in I wondered if I was botching it up. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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psst...hey Dog up.....step over here. If that description of the land thing was an attempt to look as highly technical as some of these guys try to appear....I just went on a campout with them and know first hand that they snore and fart just like all the rest of us. Welcome aboard.
Naw, It really was an attempt to paint some sort of a word picture so you guys would be able to help me out with any sort of advice that was specific to the way the land was arranged.
I am a small business owner and a father and husband and I type with two fingers. I don't have the time or desire or the inclination to post in a way that attempts to impress anyone.
I always try to be polite but I'll let you know what I'm thinking and I expect the same from everyone else. I am not new to coyote hunting but I can always use some good advice. I am not new to forums. I've posted with the best and the worst of them. Leonard should be able to confirm that.
Thanks for all help. Please get back to me on how to mix coyote sounds in with the others.
And thanks for the welcome.
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 04, 2005 10:33 AM
I'm sure Rich will chime in here with a tutorial that we all can benefit from as far as implementing vocalizations with your current situations.
Like Gerald, I keyed in on those coyotes running away. Calling coyotes for landowners that came to me asking me to hunt rather than me showing up on their doorstep reminds me a lot of my EMS days: the customer waits to call 911 only after they've tried everything they know how to do and then realize that the circumstances have gone well beyond their ability to manage things. By then, all they can do is scream for help. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Always makes for an easy hunt. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I can't even begin to count the number of times I've been told how the coyotes are "keeping them awake all night", only to find that there are not, in fact, a "thousand of 'em". But, the fact that he can hear them, and on a regular basis, tells me one very important piece of information: where they're at! If he can tell you enough to roughly identify the area that they're sounding off from, I would target those areas by approaching from downwind, regardless of how far I had to walk, and setting up as quietly as possible. (If the west gates are usually open, and that's the direction the wind is blowing from most of the time, there have been a lot of lazy callers busted getting into there.)
As Higgins say, "Stalk the stand!". Most failed stands are a result of mistakes made long before any sound is uttered. Skylining, too much noise. Lotsa reasons for things to go south. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm not familiar with your level of experience. In most cases, if you're careful getting in and you're making good sounds, and they still don't respond, one of two things is happening. Either they've heard it before, or they just ain't there.
Finally, about those bunny sounds. Gerald's dad made all our lives richer by building and fostering an industry that all of us find to be a major part of our lives. That's why we're all here. But, in doing so, he's made the Johnny Stewart distressed cottontail rabbit all but iconic. Every neophyte caller in the country offers the same sound - the one they heard on the tape. They might not have heard of Johnny personally, but they've obviously heard his tapes. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Sounds like that might be the case in your area as well. (I've got a lot of places that have "never been called". Yeah, right. They just haven't been called when the owner was around. If not by him, by somebody else.) JS and other e-callers offer a lot of voices that you just can't replicate using wind driven calls. The experienced caller doesn't limit himself to one or the other. Their strategy is a combination of using both. Keep trying. Employ variations at each hunt, always having something new to offer. As I've said a thousand times, think outside the box. (i.e., howling, misting) If everyone else says it will never work, give it a try. After all, if they believe it, they're not using it and they may not have educated coyotes with it. On the other hand, it may work for them and they're just trying to throw you off their trail. Either way, you win.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 04, 2005 10:44 AM
Good advice, and if that doesn't work there's another guy who may be able to help. His name is Victor Longspring.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 04, 2005 11:56 AM
WOW Gerald and Lance sure know how to kill a thread. Their posts are so complete that it leaves nothing for anyone else to add. Very good posts, guys.
I will add that both of them nailed it with the pressure issue. Time after time I have been assured that we are going to call on private property to virgin ears and high densities only to discover that the population is average or even below and the coyotes security levels are in the basement and they just don't want to reveal themselves. Even if they haven't been called but have been harrassed or pressured hard enough or often enough to reduce their sense of security to very low levels, they will go to extraordinary lengths to identify you without exposing themselves. When trying to call them towards areas of perceived danger all you are going to get is practice. You will have to identify their comfort zones and call them from there. You will have to be creative in using the available cover and the contour of the land and setup your shooter remote from the caller since the coyotes are willing to move as far as they have to to get your wind without exposing themselves, I'm talking about a half mile and more. I wouldn't worry about going in too often. I'd go as often as I could and use different sounds from different locations and stay on stand as long as feasible as long as I could cover their approach to the callers downwind.
FYI I do not fart, I do not snore and I'm tough enough to sleep soundly on top of a putrfied dead coyote
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 04, 2005 12:19 PM
There you go. Advice from some of the best authorities on coyote hunting, on the planet. (some of it was even accurate)
Just kidding.
From your description, it seems to me that you should look for proximity to where they are at any given segment of the day or night, and employ a combination of visibility and cover with a nice shooting lane, down wind. Check for sign in the low lying areas and crossroads. This doesn't seem all that difficult to crack, assuming you have coyotes. Use a howler; call shy coyotes haven't figured out howlers, yet.
Go get 'em, and fill us in.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted December 04, 2005 02:54 PM
I have been successful at using a simple coyote bark or howl before or after a distress call. I am not as experiened as others on this board on using challenge barks or other sounds in the act of actually trying to talk a coyote in on a stand. I will leave that to others. I have used our CT163 Coyote Pup Distress and our CT161 Locator tapes to get coyotes on stands when combined with distress sounds.
Dog up, what kind of total acreage are you talking about? You call it a Farm. A farm to me conjures up the image of a couple of hundred acres with a big red barn and a kid fishing barefooted. I have called a Station in Australia, which conjures up a picture of a building at a road intersection. It was actually a 100,000 acre "ranch".
When you mention that you have had "yotes" come close, was that when you were Deer hunting or calling for coyotes?
Cdog911 offered up some advice on getting close to the area where they may hang. If you have tried the coyote vocalization and got no visiable or audible response that does not neccessarily mean you did something wrong. If you are not close enough to their home territory they might not feel the need to challenge or respond verbally. If they seem to hang up on a ridge or creek or some other defining geographical feature, that may be the edge of their home territory and they will not come out to coyote vocalizations where they might to a curiosity or hunger sound.
Other suggestions that come to mind:
I like to call the edges of a piece of property so my effective huntable acreage is much more than the actual piece of land I have permission to be on. Roads may not get you there but like Rich says your legs should.
Coyote studies have shown that coyotes can roam a home range of ten miles out and ten miles back in a night depending on conditions. They can get an education anywhere. Vary your selection of sequence and or sound selection to throw something different at them they have not heard. I know that is being redundant but.......
Be careful not to call the same spots too often regardless of your success at those stands. I tend to be like a dog that goes back to a spot in the road it found something dead at. I have wondered at times if that was productive or not. My gut feeling is that time between stands probably has a strong bearing on that.
Please do not take any of these comments as talking down to you. They may urge you to go Duhhh, if you are an experienced caller from way back. We do not have the advantage of having sat around the campfire with you to get know your level of participation. I am just throwing them out to see if anything sticks.
Rich....all the more reason why I am in awe of you. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted December 04, 2005 03:55 PM
I'm curious about the few seen on the run. On your way to a stand or after you start calling?
I don't get to hunt the areas of miles of cover much anymore that you guys in the far west do but if I set up somewhere, or more precisely, go to set up somewhere and see a coyote on the run I have gone to far and ruined that spot. Kind of a perversion of "stalk the stand", I've done stalked too far.
Some midwestern "calling the spot" might be in order if it is that kind of terrain. Isolated pockets of cover seperated by open spaces?
I'm a rank amatuer compared to these other guys, but the running dogs part caught my eye.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 05, 2005 08:05 PM
WOW you guys know your stuff. I'm glad I gave so much info on the first post because you guys are hitting on things I may or may not have noticed and may or may not have thought about adjusting but will certainly think hard about now.
Lots of good stuff. I will try to respond to all the questions you've asked and some of the points that struck a chord with me.
quote:
Calling coyotes for landowners that came to me asking me to hunt rather than me showing up on their doorstep reminds me a lot of my EMS days: the customer waits to call 911 only after they've tried everything
Actually my wife and neighbor showed up on the farmers doorstep looking to hunt phesant and found out that he had a high coyote population. (I have heard them but have only seen a few) They asked if I could hunt dogs there and he was very amenable to the idea. But I think you and the others with the same point do make a good case for me not being the only person flinging lead at this location.
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I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm not familiar with your level of experience.
Don't worry about that. I'm soaking it all in. I'll never know too much to learn something new.
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stay on stand as long as feasible as long as I could cover their approach to the callers downwind.
Are you saying to stay in one place and keep calling for a long time? More than the typical 15-30 minutes) If you are I will give it a whirl. I was thinking of trying a fawn in distress as a new sound and I can stay inplace for hours if you think it would work.
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what kind of total acreage are you talking about? You call it a Farm.
The farm propper is about a mile by a mile then there is the area of property that is owned by the farmer but has no water rights so it is nolonger cultivated. That area is not on my map above but it is east of it. that area is 3 miles long running east to west and a mile wide.
quote:
When you mention that you have had "yotes" come close, was that when you were Deer hunting or calling for coyotes?
Calling yotes. I have had one coyote come up to my 8 O'clock once and get within 15 feet. I could see that his lower right canine tooth stuck out of his mouth at a slight angle. I have had coyotes come running at me at a fast trot or lope and only stop because my hunting partner at the time or I shot at them dropping them within 20 yards.
The only coyote I called in on this property came in quickly and walked to my crow and rabbit decoy which was about 15 to 20 yards away since I was using a 12guage loaded with standard velocity 00 buck. The other coyotes I have seen here were running and that is because they saw the rig driving in on an area up on the top section. No shots and no scent. They saw the truck and booked.
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Roads may not get you there but like Rich says your legs should.
Not really, I have some leftovers from a car wreck that keep me from walking far or fast. a good share of my calling involves finding places to park the truck and not have to walk too terribly far to the target area.
Thanks for the help everyone. One more question. If I am going to try the fawn in distress call should I do it alone or should I throw some barks in with it and when?
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 05, 2005 08:59 PM
Don't bark before the coyote does.
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 06, 2005 08:41 AM
I thought that if the coyote barked first that I was busted.
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 06, 2005 11:38 AM
Not neccessarily. But if you bark first you are certainly busted with all but the most aggressive coyotes.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 06, 2005 02:07 PM
The only time I use a bark is when I want the coyote to stop. I get the rifle up on the sticks and aginst my shoulder as soon as I have them spotted. Follow them in all the way using my trigger hand to support the gun and my off hand to work the call. When they hit the red zone (your comfortable killing range. 40-60 yards for me), I give them a single gutteral "woof". In the time I've been using it, every single coyote has come to a sudden stop and turned sideways offering a beautiful broadside shot. I know that isn't guaranteed with every coyote, but so far, I've been lucky. In any event, Rich told me years ago that, in coyote-ese, "woof" means "stop right there", and by golly, they stop right there. Don't bust out running generally, but they check up and offer a great target. Give it a try. It's a great first step in learning to purposefully creating your shot opportunities rather than taking any old shot that happens along.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob Love
Knows what it's all about
Member # 723
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posted December 08, 2005 06:47 PM
Dog up
Do konow what township and secion the ranch is in?
If so shoot me an email, I'd like to see somthing.
Or what roads are close.
Posts: 24 | From: TX | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dog up
Knows what it's all about
Member # 746
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posted December 09, 2005 07:57 AM
I can send you GPS coordinates for the farm house if ya need. Mind if I ask why?
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How much lead could a rock chuck catch if a rock chuck could catch lead?
Posts: 29 | From: S.W. Idaho | Registered: Dec 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 09, 2005 09:07 AM
What kind of e-caller do you have?
I have a homemade mp3 ecaller and use JS calling cd's (coyote vol1&2, bobcat vol1). When calling tough coyotes I use my ecaller more than mouth calls because of the variaty of calls available. I try to use 3 and sometimes 4 different sounds. Each time out I'll use different combinations of sounds. I try to use both predator and prey sounds to attract coyotes that are hungry as well as coyotes that are territorial. And sometimes I think a few come out of curiosity.
If I think the area has easily imtimidated coyote pups I'll start with the prey sounds. Since the rabbit is quite possibly over used in this area (not necessarily on this farm, but like others have said, maybe they are getting called on neighbors farms) I'd use a few JS prey distress sounds. The mp3 files on the JS cd's are 5 minutes long so I use 5 minutes of two prey sounds, for instance 5 minutes of rodent distress followed by 5 minutes of woodpecker distress, then I'd change to 5 minutes of JS distressed housecat for the predator. So I hit both a coyotes stomach and his territorial nerve with this calling sequence, but don't intimidate the younger smaller pups who don't want to fight yet.
If you aren't worried about intimidating the pups I'd start with JS coyote pup distress (or JS coyote/grey fox fight) for 5 minutes. Then move to 5 minutes of canine pups. After that I'd go to a prey sound, say the rodent distress. One thing I've noticed starting a stand with coyote vocals, even if they don't come in alot of coyotes will cut the distance to you and be sitting out a ways looking the area over. Many times I've had coyote vocals playing on the ecaller (coyote pup distress, coyote-greyfox fight, etc) and not 30 seconds after the canine pups or cat or rodent or whatever started I had a coyote coming in from not too far away.
This is also why I never end a stand with coyote vocals, if a coyote is watching the area from afar looking for the coyote and won't come until he see him and I end and get up he sees me and then I might see him run off. Even if I'm just howling at a stand I try to end it with a distress, even if it's just the mouse bulb squeeker, but atleast some prey sound hoping to get the "watcher" to come in before I get up and get busted.
I've have also used the distressed fawn but haven't had good luck with it this time of year. In the spring it's one of my "goto" calls, but you may get good results from it year round in your area.
As has been said, when the ecaller stops, so likely will the coyote. Last spring I was playing the 5 minute tracks with silent tracks on my MP3 between type of animals. I lost 3 coyotes in 2 stands one evening because when the 5 minute track stopped the coyote stopped his approach, checked up for a second, turned and left without coming in close enough to offer a good shot. I've since removed the gaps from my MP3 and play it continous. I start at 25% or less volume, hoping to get some crows come in and get excited, then I crank it up to 50% and then to 75%. If it's windy I'll go up to 100% but most of the time I don't use that much volume, and when I do I'll turn it up and then drop back down after a minute or two.
When rifle calling I have the MP3 player velco'd to the rifle stock. That way if I need to stop the coyote and barking doesn't work I can push pause on the mp3, the sound stops and often the coyote then stops. My last kill was this exactly. She wouldn't stop, 140 yards out, I pushed pause on the MP3 on the rifle stock, she stopped and did a 180 and then stood broadside looking right at the speaker. A second later a 22-250 propelled bullet crossed both her lungs and heart.
I'd also switch things up on the coyotes a little and call them at night with no spotlight. Try it by the moon like us in states where you can't spotlight. Next week is the full moon, the nights leading up to the full moon are best IMHO because the moon is high in the sky early enough I can call places while people are still up (similar to your restriction of calling around building as long as people are up). You said coyotes travel often near the farm house. I have a couple of places I call like this and I like to setup against small buildings, the barn, etc. I try to sit on the side shaded from the moon light so I'm in the shadows. As long as there is no farm dog(s) (assuming since there was a bobcat so close to the house I'm guessing no farm dogs?) the coyotes likely come up around the buildings at night anyway to check things out, grab a cat or two, some mice or rats, etc. By sitting up against the building you can't be "back doored" and with the wind in your face you can't be downwinded. The coyotes, even wary ones, are likely much more bold at night and soft calling with a sound they don't expect to see anything, like a rodent distress or a woodpecker distress, should work well for you. I'd use lead BB or hevi BB would be even better. Alot of broken bones = don't run away fast, so you can put a followup shot in him if he tries to run off. (I use hevishot #2 and night and it really breaks them down with multiple broken bones and head/spine breaks out to 50 yards.) I try to sit perfectly still and not move until I'm ready to make the shot. I don't "reposition" as the coyote approaches when shotgun hunting, I let the coyote come all the way in and then shoulder and fire the shotgun when he's getting too close for comfort (10 feet) or has checked up or cirlcing around me and is in shotgun range but not coming any closer. I have a reddot (millet sp1) on my 870 supermag so I pull the shotgun up, shoulder it, put the reddot on the coyote, pull the trigger. Very fast and accurate sighting.
One word of advice though, walk off "shotgun range" from the buildings in the daylight. I won't admit how many times I hadn't done that and sitting down by moon light I thought a coyote was out of range (beyond 40 yards for me) only to step it off after the stand and find the coyote was only 30 yards away when I thought he was closer to 50. I've heard others say it as well, range estimation sitting down at night is challenging and often you thing objects are farther than they are.
I've also had good luck sitting against LP tanks (wear a white shirt) and also sitting infront of, and a couple times on, the place's picnic table. Not moving until you are going to shoot is the key. They see those objects whenever they come through, if you don't move they won't notice you.
Oh, another trick for moonlit barnyard calling, swing my McDonalds on the way out to the farm. Buy a big mac and a super sized fries. Put the food out infront of you where you want the coyote standing for a shot (since I'm left handed I put it infront of me and a little to my right for an easier quick shoulder and fire shot), paper bag open, out 10-15 yards. This will get any coyote that is going to come in to you right infront of where it's easiest for you to shoot.
And for moonlit calling I'd also have the speaker right next to you. Don't move, call them right to you. If they circle the call 30 yards out and the speaker is 20 yards infront of you that's a 50 yards shot. With the speaker next to you it's a 30 yard shot. At night I like to put the call no farther than 5 yards away and sometimes have it right infront or beside me.
I can't wait until early next week. I have 20 minutes of rodent distress loaded on my MP3 and a farm I'm going to call. I'm not sure where I'm going to sit yet, moonlit calling on this farm over the last couple years I've gotten one coyote while I was sitting next to the lp tank and 2 from the picnic table.
Just try to think outside the box when trying to trick wary coyotes. One moonlit night I sat in the shade of a leanto with a boombox and JS baby cottontail playing next to me about 10 yards sitting against the outside of the HOUSE the leanto was "leaning" up against. I heard a few coyotes approach but all but one stopped in a tall grass wash 50 yards from the house. One coyote finally came up out of the grass and walked up to the boombox up against the house, sniffed it, then with his nose to the ground followed my scent trail back to me, looked up at me at 10 feet and did this when he found himself looking up the barrel of a gun. It's obvious he knew his way around the house and buildings and also wasn't spooked by human scent being there since it likely was most times he'd been there. And it being dark and him feeling safe at night made him very bold, so bold to track my scent trail. Oh, he won't do that again.
Many coyotes think they own the darkness and feel very little pressure at night. If their is alot of spotlighting going on in your area that might not be the case. But around here, where spotlighting is illegal, the few of us that moonlit hunt get to see a great show and make a lot of cool memories when we use the coyotes boldness at night against him.
later,
scruffy
[ December 09, 2005, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 09, 2005 10:13 AM
Good post, Scruffy. Lots of neat ideas. Thanks for sharing.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted December 09, 2005 01:01 PM
If the land owner/ farmer, has not been shooting at them from the "feed" wagon, riding in with him at feed time will sometimes allow undetected access, as well as an attractant. Coyotes here will, as the cows move towards the last dumped pile of cubes, follow up and try to get a easy cube or two. Similar to the contest drops. Jump out as he starts to feed and set up the stand while the "com'on sueey" is going on and wait until he drives off. If he is feeding the cows as he should near the nursery, the fresh baby calf crap is eaten by them as well.
Man, is this crowd on the ball. Good thread guys.
later pup
Posts: 213 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2003
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squrilsniper
PAKMAN
Member # 753
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posted December 09, 2005 06:40 PM
Sounds like I'm in the area let me know if you need a hand, I plan to check out the OWYHEES as soon as I nail doown a area.
Posts: 3 | From: Middleton ID. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 09, 2005 07:22 PM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, squrilsniper. Glad to have you on board.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob Love
Knows what it's all about
Member # 723
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posted December 10, 2005 01:11 PM
Dog Up
I would like to check my map and see if there is a detectiabl reason for the bolting non stop.
May be a combonation of reasons. But doesn't hurt to check. Shoot me an email. r_love@tractinc.com
Posts: 24 | From: TX | Registered: Oct 2005
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