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Author
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Topic: to howl or not to howl that is my question?
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bigben
Knows what it's all about
Member # 864
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posted July 20, 2006 09:07 AM
I was wondering how many people howl before screamin rabbit? and why?
Posts: 54 | From: sc pa. | Registered: May 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 20, 2006 09:27 AM
bigben,
I almost always begin my calling stand with a howl or three. Not always of course, but MOST of the time I do. After the howls, I usually end up using pup squeals.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 20, 2006 09:35 AM
I think that's a good guestion. We almost had a good discussion on that until the "Street Walkers" got it off track. I used to be a die hard howler and started most stands off with howls followed by distress. About the only time I didn't was during the mid-day, when I felt I wasn't gaining any advantage. Now days just about everybody is using howls to some extent or for some purpose. I'm starting to think that just distress might be the best solution for calling coyote?
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted July 20, 2006 10:43 AM
I still start lot of my stand with howls, Lonehowls or lost puupy howls. But its hard to explain? I almost go off gut feeling? Some stands I howl to start some I howl to finish. But almost all my stands have some kind of coyote vocals even if its just puppy wines or distress.
Brent
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Kee's Custom Calls
http://www.keescalls.com
Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted July 20, 2006 10:53 AM
Depends on the time of the year for me. And, if I think there may be foxes or bobcats in the area....
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 20, 2006 11:51 AM
Brent
quote:
I almost go off gut feeling?
There's a lot of truth in that one. That in it self is a big factor in calling coyote.
The should I howl, should we both howl, do I dare make it to that next hump before setting up to call. Do you think it will work? Ya,it'll work. Do you think this will work? Well maybe, but I'm doubtful. Ya, your probably right,let's find another place.
The more experience you have the more weight you can put on those gut feelings.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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bigben
Knows what it's all about
Member # 864
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posted July 20, 2006 12:01 PM
yeah a buddy of mine says a lot of it is confidence.
Posts: 54 | From: sc pa. | Registered: May 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 20, 2006 02:26 PM
Howling, like time of day, my position relative to where the coyote (probably) is coming from, the date and what my experience tells me is the motivation (if any) for that coyote to respond to my efforts are all examples of many, many variables that I try to mix up each time I go out. Cadence and intensity are two others. The list goes on and on.
This time of the year, I'm mixing distress and howls. One time, I'll start out with a couple howls followed by distress. Next time out, I do a lost puppy howl followed by some ki-yi's, then maybe some rabbit distress, and call from a different position in the morning, versus in the evening. Last time out, I used a new style call I'm making (shameless self promotion) and started with two brief sets of cottontail squeals, followed by a pair of very mournful puppy howls. (Had him circling in less than 7 minutes.) A lot of this is because we're working the same two packs over right now trying to cull as many as possible before they wise up or our luck runs out and we just can't make the mistake of doing the same thing twice. I've found it's a good philosophy to use year-round. I've got nearly 60 calls and four different howlers I use and try to rotate them off my lanyard regularly so I'm always carrying something fresh.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 20, 2006 04:20 PM
I very rarely howl first. But then my howler is pretty old and ugly. If I had a new and pretty howler, I'd probably get it out and use it more often.
But for now, I generally only how in response.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted July 20, 2006 05:51 PM
As my calling season progresses from late fall into late winter, as does my use of howlers. Since most of the areas I call, see little to no other calling pressure, I start the season off with nearly distress only, with the occasional howler use. Later in the season, when I'm hunting areas that I have been to a couple times already in the season, I then switch over to more howler use, plus it seems that they are more vocal then anyways with breeding season approaching. Seems to work pretty well for me!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 20, 2006 06:28 PM
I usually start with the rabbit and if i don't get a response i will then go to a female invatational howl. I like to mix it up alot, maybe one stand just use rabbit or a lone howl, or something different. I also like to keep the howl low keyed earlier in the year, don't want to run any of the pups off with to deep of a howl.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 20, 2006 06:38 PM
Tim Behle,
So you need a new and pretty howler huh? I have a couple of small seamless howlers on hand. They look similar to this one only smaller.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 20, 2006 07:08 PM
Oh i like that one Rich.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 21, 2006 06:15 AM
TA17Rem,
That one is on auction over at P.M. right now, and today is last day of the auction. I am working on a rather large order for www.allpredatorcalls.com right now, so am pretty much tied up. I will try to post photos of the seamless models I have in stock. Maybe I can get that done yet today. My call business has been slow for a couple of months, and now I am flooded with orders. I ain't bitching now mind you, just a little overwhelmed is all. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 21, 2006 06:31 AM
Here they are.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 21, 2006 07:59 AM
Rich, by 'seamless' are you refering to the reed bridge being part of the horn, or am I missing something?? Thanx.......I still don't understand everything that I know about building calls.
Or calling coyotes.
Or women.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 21, 2006 08:53 AM
Kokopelli,
You are correct. The mouthpiece is carved directly into the horn.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
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posted July 21, 2006 08:30 PM
Rich,
Reading this post just reminded me that I told you some time ago that I needed another Taylor Special and then forgot to contact you. My apologies. I now need two of them and will send the check in the mail on Monday.
Just out of curiosity, how many American dollars would one of those purty howlers in the post above run me? Send me and email if you want.
Posts: 298 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 21, 2006 09:55 PM
Rich; those howlers look good. Maybe i take you calling and you bring the howlers i'll bring the 17's. The hair on the back of my neck is standing straight up, can hardly wait for Nov.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 22, 2006 04:47 AM
Brad Norman,
I am a few days behind right now, but your order is appreciated. I will get on it some time next week. If you want one of the howlers in the photo for 40.00, just tell me which one and add the fourty bucks to price of your new Taylor specials. Thank you.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 22, 2006 04:49 AM
TA17Rem ,
Will a .17 actually work on coyotes? Just kidding.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
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posted July 22, 2006 09:19 AM
I like using howls, I always start the stand off with a couple of different types of howls. My way of thinking is that I will let them know and try to trigger a response from them. Kinda like tryin to get their ears perked up. then I switch over to distress (sometimes)
I have not been hunting coyotes long enough to give advice and I am not trying to. I have been told by someone that when I hunt long enough that I would find that more are called in with distress than anything, But so far, all the ones that I have called in have been on howls of various types. Including one yesterday!
Agree/ disagree? Please I am always open for pointers...
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 22, 2006 10:49 AM
I believe that a caller should use the rabbit scream as a primery call and go to a howler as a last resort. I've read more than once where a caller sat down and used more than one type of calling sound, like he started with a howl and then switched to a rabbit and then to a bird in distress. a coyote shows up so the caller thinks the bird in distress is the magic sound where it could have been actually the rabbit or howl that brought the coyote in. A caller should keep it simple if you give him all the sounds in youre arsinal and he comes in and you miss him, he will be alot tougher to call in the next time.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 22, 2006 02:22 PM
TA-
Without divulging a very effective technique of one of our key members here (I'll let him do that if he so wishes), I must respectfully disagree with what you said about using too many sounds. I've seen the results when applied properly and the technique works very effectively.
Browning,
My personal experience with howling has proven exactly the opposite of what you've been told, but bear in mind that there are very few guys that use howling where I hunt. When using distress sounds, any nearby coyote will respond and often, they do so alone probably so as not to have to share or fight over the bunny once found. With distress alone, singles are the rule rather than the exception and a double makes for a red letter stand. The response is generally fast with the vast majority of takers showing inside the first five minutes, if not in the first two.
Once I introduce a howl, whether at the beginning of the stand or somewhere in the middle, I see things slow down considerably. Rather than busting in balls to the wall, the coyotes tend to approach with caution, and generally after moving downwind where they meet up with packmates. Since I began using the technique that Higgins taught me, using a good quality howler that sounds truly authentic to me and to them (I hope), it isn't uncommon to see doubles, triples, even quads or more. The biggest bunch I called at one time came in about this time of the year, shoulder to shoulder, right up to me. I had no gun because I wasn't calling to kill, just to play. There were eight of them.
With just distress, I usually set a stand for 10-15 minutes, especially in the early season. That time frame ranges to a half-hour in the late season. With howling, I wait a minimum of twenty, and often as not, the last 5-10 will be in total silence.
Others probably have seen different results, but these are consistent patterns I've seen over the past five years where I hunt.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 22, 2006 04:06 PM
I am old and slow. I'm getting closer to the "has been" from Iowa every day. Having said that, I will also tell you this---- I have been there and done that. The most coyotes I called in at once was either five or six. They came like a flock of quail, a whole dang family of coyotes. Not one at a time, but the whole dang family. The call I was using on that stand was an old Johnny Stewart MS-512 and it was playing a rabbit distress of some sort. There will always be the young college boys who try their best to make coyote calling sound like an exact science that requires a degree in coyotology or something. Geeessshhhh!
Guys, it ain't rocket science. Search out an area which has lots of coyotes and very few people. Apply a few basic calling techniques and you will call coyotes. Sweet talk an experienced caller into taking you out with him for a few days. You will learn more during a hunt with guys like Murry Burnham than you can learn in a lifetime on your own. Want to learn about howling up coyotes? Trick someone like Cal Taylor or Scott Huber into taking you out with em for a couple of days.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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