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Author
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Topic: Howling 101
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 26, 2006 07:54 PM
What books or videos do you reccomend on howling?
I know I've asked and gotten tips in the past, but after the last couple of years it seems I'm getting worse at knowing when to howl and which howl to use. Maybe a refresher course on the basics as which howl and what time of year or why?
When I first started trying to howl, I did actualy call in a few but I guess I stepped on my "hoo haw" and now usually get no response or they answer but get further and further away, so back to basics.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 26, 2006 09:07 PM
Are you hunting a lot of land, or continuously making rounds in the same places? A little howling goes a long ways. Easy on the agressive howls unless you get challenged.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 27, 2006 05:11 AM
Tom, If you still have a cassette player, You might try the the Sceery, Crit'r Call or the Austin instructional tapes. Sceerys' has quite abit of actual coyote recordings on it.
All those guys know(knew) how to howl coyote.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 27, 2006 05:39 AM
Leonard, you may have nailed it right there. I did hunt a ranch (2500 acres) quite a bit because it was close to home. Always called and killed coyotes with distress calls on it because I knew it so well (used to work on it) but I also worked on my howling there more than any other place.
I start with an interrogation howl, if no answer in 5 minutes or so I start calling with a distress call. If I do get an answer I try to repeat what they do but I try not to be too aggressive. I have a Crit'r call song dong and an ELK power howler, I may try to get a Cronk howler but I know it's not the howlers I'm using, simply the person trying to use them.
Dennis, I have Ed Sceery's video on howling and I think I'll get the tape for the Song dog caller, I have the manual that came with the call but I have a hard time reading what something is supposed to sound like.
Thanks guys.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 27, 2006 06:41 AM
Tom do you think that a coyote can hear a howl from two miles away? Well probably not a elk power howler but a good cow horn or oil funnel type?
If they can, wouldn't your interrogation howl be heard in an area of up to 10,000 acres(+\-) depending on terrain?
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I think that is one of the reasons why you're hearing the distance howls. I think Wiley posted that the farther the coyote are from you ,the more likely you'll get a vocal response. That's at least my ezperience from a locating stand point?
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 27, 2006 08:34 AM
I can hear a coyote howl at a mile so yes I think a coyote can hear me at at least twice that, an interesting thought.
Let me give you a situation that happened last January and maybe it will explain my trouble.
Me and my partner were hunting a contest, before sunup we heard a couple howling from opposite sides of the ranch. We snuck in about a half mile and set up on the coyote that was on top of a hill about 400 yards from him. My thinking was if I howled he would wonder what I was doing in his terrority and come to investigate. He answered my lonesome howl with a challenge howl or at least what I thought was, I challenged back but not as aggressive as his, 2 minutes or so later he challenged again but from further away. We thought we kept out of sight and had the wind in our favor and I don't think my howling is too bad but this is what usually happens. Did that make sense?
I'm beginning to think in my area I may be better off ditching the howler. Another thing I very seldom hear them howl after sunrise or before sunset.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 27, 2006 08:38 AM
TOM64,
I think we will all learn more by talking about your howling problems right here on this board than I have seen on any video or in any book. I know that my own idea's concerning the howling issue has changed somewhat. I think we need to be careful when we try to label this howl or that. Only the coyote knows for sure what he means when he howls. I have come to believe that the best all around howl to use when calling coyotes to the gun is a "lonesome" sounding howl. I used to advocate answering a challenge or bark/howl by trying your best to imitate what the coyote just said. Now I'm not so sure about that. Not saying I NEVER do that anymore, but I do that quite a bit less. Answering the challenge with your "lonesome", or other non-agressive howl may be a better plan. Now in regard to your distress crys that you mention, are you using the same old rabbit distress that you were using in that area for awhile? I think that when working pressured coyotes, we need to use tunes that they haven't been hearing so many times that they can hum it. Pup squeals come to mind. Pup squeals are a double whammy because it not only shocks the maternal instinct, but is also a prey distress cry which triggers the easy meal syndrome.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2006 08:42 AM
In rereading, I think it bears mention that a vocal response is not necessary, if you are hunting coyotes, rather than attempting to locate coyotes. I almost never use howls to locate, any more than I would use distress to locate. I'm more inclined to locate by sign and habitat, but there is no doubt that a vocal response says there is a coyote... right there! The problem is, how many coyotes heard the howl and didn't respond? It's a little like dropping a baited hook in front of a school of fish. They don't always bite, some bite sometimes and some never bite. Change bait.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2006 08:51 AM
I didn't see either reply before I posted, Tom. But, you cannot discount territorial boundaries, when you believe that a coyote is not coming in to your sounds. Some folks dispute this, but I think silence is better than replies. Replies mean that your coyote may be content to stay put and answer you, rather than close the distance. Now, a guy like Scott Huber will go get them where they are, not wait for them to come to him. Personally, I don't like to get that far from my truck, but it is effective, if you are on foot. Quinton Wagoner hunts that way, even if he isn't howling, he hunts on foot, working into bedding areas, etc.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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bigben
Knows what it's all about
Member # 864
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posted July 27, 2006 09:50 AM
interesting reading. who here uses a siren to locate?
Posts: 54 | From: sc pa. | Registered: May 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 27, 2006 10:26 AM
Rich, I agree about learning more here than any book or video. I labeled my howls based on Ed Sceery's video and could be very wrong on my interpitations. As for distress, pup cries are my favorite but I do use the rabbit blues as well as trying a few bird sounds that are starting to work for me. I'll classify myself as a decent caller but I suck at howling. While I always try to pick up everything I can on calling, howling itself just plain escapes me, I can never say to myself, ok I've got that down let's go onto something else.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted July 27, 2006 10:41 AM
I agree with you on that Leonard, I think unless you're really close, vocal coyote are less likely to come than non-vocal. I tend to also agree with Rich that sometimes just single howls or standard lone howls might be a better response to challenge howls.
I have some experience with challenging back challenge howls that pretty much resulted in nothing more than shouting matches with the outcome that nothing shows. I think coyotes(some) can and will try to bluff you and they want you to show yourself before they commit.
I maybe shouldn't say this but I have had some success with a challenge howl as a primary call. In the past I've located coyote and have gone in a couple hours afterwards and challenged and have brought in the hole nine yards(get in their face). Maybe worth trying a couple times in late summer. BTW: I don't do this often more or less on that "gut" feeling.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted July 27, 2006 11:16 AM
Ed Sceery's "Howling for Coyotes" is one of the best videos available as far as Instruction goes.Not much action,but very informitive.Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted July 27, 2006 11:17 AM
Tom, When you did have success howling was it multiple coyotes or older coyotes that you called in?
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted July 27, 2006 12:13 PM
TOM64,
I can't remember the title of the Sceery video I saw on howling. The Sceery video I did see, led me to believe that Ed Sceery felt pretty strongly that a howl was a howl was a howl. He played what sounded to me like the same howl over and over about three or four times. He stood there with a grin, while he placed a certain label on each howl. (same howl, different label). Even though I recall feeling sort of dismayed at the time, I now realize that Ed was just as correct as a howling pioneer or two that claimed to know coyote language.
I am glad that Leonard pointed out the territorial issue. He is dead right on that. Coyotes are very unlikely to cross it's boundary line to come kick a stranger's arse. Leonard is also correct in regard to the vocal answer deal. Coyotes often come in silent when answering a howl, which is why I almost never locate with a howler anymore. You say you suck at howling. You also mention being successful a few times by howling. I am betting that your howls are just fine. Some of the worst howls I ever heard came from real coyotes.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted July 27, 2006 03:17 PM
Lonny, the first one I called in by howling alone was a young one but I had to go to it due to it getting dark and wound up meeting it halfway. I can remember one triple coming out to the edge of a field still out of range but for the most part I "talk" with them and run out of daylight. Not enough success to go by. I have started stands with a howl then switched to distress sounds but can't and won't say my howling brought them in.
Leonard, paitence, silence, faith and when to use each are things I need to work on.
Rich, I'm glad I'm not the only one who couldn't tell much difference in some of those howls. I did listen to some of your sound clips you've posted in the past and am gonna get one of your howlers with instructions, in fact e-mail me how much and where to send my money when you get time and I'll just do that, thanks.
Guy's this is exactly what I'm looking for, keep the tips coming please.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted July 27, 2006 04:07 PM
whether they came in to the distress or the howl is neither here nor there. the fact that they showed is the key. if a howl and then a distress brought them in then that is what i'd go with. you can't argue with results.
my theory is that a howl isn't likely to scare them away, so what's it hurt to do it?
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 27, 2006 07:08 PM
Quote; 'So what's it hurt to do it?
Answer; Bobcats.
I seldom howl for fear of hanging up a 'cat. Anybody have any insight on this??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted July 27, 2006 08:17 PM
the original intent of the post was about howling for coyotes not calling bobcat. so it wouldn't hurt to howl if you are targeting coyotes.
i don't have to worry about any bobs showing up 'cause they are all waaaaay north of me. i've had fox show up after an initial howl and then a distress a bit later.
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 27, 2006 09:05 PM
I've killed far more bobcats on a coyote stand, than I have while calling a "Bobcat stand" That's the big reason I don't often howl first.
If a coyote howls and seems hung up, I'll respond, other than that, I mostly just use a distress sound.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 27, 2006 09:49 PM
quote:
so what's it hurt to do it?
only if you use an aggressive howl. And, if you are right in the middle of coyotes, a howl is more counter productive, in my view, than distress sounds.
I don't think howling, in general, will scare a cat. Figure like this, they overlap territories, and coyotes howl a lot. I don't think a bobcat is very intimidated by a howl, no more so than another coyote would be.....
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 28, 2006 04:16 AM
Leonard, I can go along with a bobcat not being intimidated by howls, but do you think that one would respond to distress sounds coming from a howl location?? Seems like if one did come in it would hang up looking the area over until it forgot what it was there for.
Smithers, I meant no disrespect there a couple posts back. Hope it wasn't taken as such. It's just that a 20$ coyote will buy gas to get to town; where-as a 200$ bobcat will buy a very intense table dance when you get there. Man, I love the West!!
Interesting about the fox. A few years ago I was hunting with a freind and his brand new Fox-Pro. At the 10 minute mark we had a Grey Fox coming in just out of shotgun range, unknown to my partner who had to play with his new toy and switch to a howl. That fox did a 180 sooooo fast that it ran right up it's own a$$. All we found was a little 'O' ring laying on the ground.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 28, 2006 04:31 AM
quote:
Seems like if one did come in it would hang up looking the area over until it forgot what it was there for.
From the 'cats I've seen, I think a guy could pretty much give up the ten or fifteen seconds it takes for a bobcat to forget what he was doing to reap the benefits of howling. LOL Caller running, cat comes in. Caller stops, 'cat stops. Sometimes I think even 'possums look at bobcats and think, "How dumb is that!?!" ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted July 28, 2006 05:38 AM
That Kokopelli is a plumb smart feller, I gotta agree with every word he wrote!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted July 28, 2006 06:05 AM
I don't have much bobcat experience, BUT I'd like to share what my buddy experienced last year on this subject.
My buddy was calling, used no coyote vocals, distress only, and some where in the middle of the set, a coyote started talkin', SO my buddy decided to start talkin' back with some coyote vocals of his choice, this went on for several minutes, my buddy said it sounded like the coyote was in a place that he should be able to see the it, but he never did get his eyes on it, and then, the camara man who was sitting just a few feet behind, signaled that there was something coming and was close by lip squeeking, so my buddy slowly started looking around only to see a bobcat about 15 yards from them! SO, at least in this instance, the bobcat wasn't scared at all by howls!!
Then on another occasion, while using distress only, my buddy had a bobcat coming at about 100 yards, when out of know where comes two coyotes charging in and the coyote actually spotted the cat and commence to chase it and tree it, before they continued into the set!!
And one other time, while in N.E. KS. callin', I had a cat coming in and then had two coyotes charge in, spot the cat, and they chased the cat right out of sight, and we never got any of them called back in!! On that set, we were using distress only!!
Maybe these instances were flukes!! But it goes to show that nothing in the calling world is as black and white as we'd all like to think sometimes!!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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