The New Huntmastersbbs!: Stand Length

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 27, 2006, 10:56 AM:

Just an informal poll, what is your normal time on a stand barring any unusual circumstances,and does the length of time vary according to whether you use distress sounds or coyote vocalizations?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2006, 11:07 AM:

I like twelve minute stands, daylight.

Night stands, more like seven minutes.

All subject to change according to circumstances.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 27, 2006, 11:10 AM:

Most of my stands don't last more than 15 minutes,if i'm using distress sounds alone or mixed with limited howling.But if i'm using howling alone i'll stay on a stand 30+ minutes.Sometimes they come in with alittle more caution when using just coyote vocalizations IMO.Good Hunting Chad

[ July 27, 2006, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on July 27, 2006, 11:19 AM:

I don't howl enough to have any meaningful input on the influence of that.

I stay on stand as long as I can stand to sit still, I'd love to say that is 30 minutes but is truthfully more like 20. That length is largely determined by calling specific chunks of cover and having to drive significant distances to the next spot. The number of those spots are limited, too. Private property.
I think the 3 minute point is the most likely point in time to see something. I'm very focused in that 3-5 minute time frame.

Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 27, 2006, 11:35 AM:

Around 20 minutes. Later in the winter when I'm howling more I'll add 5 extra minutes on certain stands.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 27, 2006, 11:37 AM:

Rarely more than fifteen. To be honest, I usually spend more time walking in and out than the time spent on a stand. Occasionaly if I know I don't have time to make another stand, I'll stretch one out and maybe do a little howling with 20 or so minutes of silence.

When I first started calling, my mentor would pull the truck over and point to some distance hump, a half a mile or so away, and say "thats the setup. I would usually look at him and say "jeez, that hunp is two bad assed cuts away maybe we can just jump the fence and call from here?" I learned not to question him.

Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on July 27, 2006, 11:45 AM:

15 minutes is probably average, but it depends on the wind and terrain. If the wind is screaming and I know they have to be close to hear me, I shorten the stand and make more of them in the same amount of country.

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 27, 2006, 12:51 PM:

If I don't see one within 15 minutes I am up. We don't have many places that are wide open. mostly small fields edged with canals and fench rows.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2006, 12:52 PM:

I have been advised on the probable origin of this question.....lol

A blanket statement just doesn't answer all the possibilities. Time of day, weather conditions, whether they are running real good, type of cover. All these things, and gut feelings will enter into what I do. Also, being just plain tired, I will set a stand for a ridiculously long time.

Here's the thing on quick stands versus long stands. As was mentioned above, most days (not all, but most days) your coyote will be in front of you within five minutes. If you want to wait around for that "six mile coyote" good luck to you. I'd probably fall asleep due to sheer boredom.

Remember, for we contest hunters, it's a numbers game. Who in the hell has the attitude; "I want to kill less coyotes" ????

Good hunting. LB

edited for spelling, please excuse.

[ July 27, 2006, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by PAyotehunter (Member # 764) on July 27, 2006, 01:03 PM:

On average 45min. Sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less.

Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on July 27, 2006, 01:05 PM:

Behind the scenes intrigue... I ought to drop out.

For clarity's sake - as clear as you can be when painting with a very wide brush - extending to 20 or 30 minutes is truely an effort to get as many responses as possible, not limit your chances for success. Due to access and distance you may find yourself limited to 3-5 stands in the prime couple of hours of early or late daylight periods. You can make 3-5 stands, whether 10 minutes or 20 minutes.

Posted by bigben (Member # 864) on July 27, 2006, 02:14 PM:

I am like yote hunter 45 min + yeah I have had fox come in at that time. also I am not squealin all the time either. mayhe I am doin somethin wron [Confused]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 27, 2006, 02:47 PM:

I spend about 15 minutes on each stand, but to be honest I rarely look at my watch to time things like that. There are lots of guys here in western Iowa who have very limited access to hunting area. I have noticed that coyotes are still travelling from one place to another from early morning until 9:a.m.-10:a.m. I can't be sure,but I think that these coyotes have been out on the open river bottom for their nightly hunts, and are on their way back to their favorite daytime cover in the hills. Sound does not carry well over the hills and through the trees. A caller could easily be out of range of some of these travelling coyotes when he first starts calling. In this type of situation, a caller may well pick up a coyote or two that travels within ear range of the call by waiting 30 minutes or more. Just a little food for thought.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 27, 2006, 03:01 PM:

I call a stand until both legs and my butt are sound asleep. When they're numb to the point of hurting and I determine that I couldn't walk, let alone run, down a coyote I clipped a little bit off plumb if I had to, I give it up.

Now, having said that, the falling asleep only takes about fifteen minutes on a "good" day. The next ten minutes are spent with me lying on one side and then the other, stretching and kicking my legs to wake them up and enjoying the pins and needles. Occasionally, I lie on my back to get 'em going. I used to stand up and stretch them while walking all about, but one day I stood up, took one step, and went right down flat on my back when my leg wouldn't do what I asked of it. Still spend the first fifty yards or so walking out after "waking" things up walking like a rooster. [Smile]

In all seriousness, early in the year, with all distress, maybe fifteen minutes, tops. Adding in howls tends to compel me to add another 5-10 to it. Late in the season, I stretch it out to 30-40 because they're fewer and farther between, smarter, and less stupid. Like Joe, my country is sectioned and I'm focusing on a possible target within a specific pocket of cover rather than having wolfy cover all around me. And like Greenside, the trek in and out is a bigger chunk of the time than the actual setup. Sometimes, I feel kinda guilty about walking so far in, then only calling for a few minutes. Almost seems like a waste of time some days.

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 27, 2006, 03:51 PM:

No blanket statement for me, but I hope to have one figured out in the next 25-30 years so stay tuned. I try to keep calling as simple as possible, though I allow the coyotes to complicate it for me. I do whatever the coyotes like- and it takes modifying the sounds/setups/stand length each week.

Last year I kept some notes to keep track of all the variables. October coyotes seemed to respond within 12 minutes, November changed dramatically to 25 minutes+ to stay successful. December held quite a few long stands as well, Janaury and February were back to normal 12-18 minute kills. I'm not sure it's a coincidence our deer seasons slowed down the entry of coyotes in my area.

It seems each year I kill a handful of coyotes that took over an hour to call in and a few more that appeared less than 60 second into the stand. I rarely hunt places where I can walk to the next stand so I milk em' for all I can.

To me, the better quesiton would be "How long do you stay on stand after you kill the first one?" Taking a dozen doubles last year I think I'm finally getting a pretty good handle on when it's time to stick a fork in a stand in my area- when do you guys call it quits?

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on July 27, 2006, 04:39 PM:

I don't wear a watch, have very seldom "timed" myself on a stand, BUT I think I have a good idea of what about 15 minutes feels like, so that's about what I usually stay put for. How ever, as the season gets toward the end, and I use more coyote vocals, I tend to try to stay longer on stand!
Out here where I can see a long ways in the distance, I have on occasion stood up only to see one coming, so I plop back down, and finish the stand, properly. When I'm by myself, I tend to stay longer in general, cause I have several guys that I hunt with that expect action with-in 5 to 7 minutes all the time, sometimes my sets get a little on the short side!

Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on July 27, 2006, 04:53 PM:

I'll stay for longer that 15 minutes if there isn't enough daylight to move and setup again.

I hate to miss a good sundown stand.

Otherwise it's 12-15.

I've never called in a different coyote after the shot that put one down. Not once. And it's not for lack of trying or creativity. I still try though. It's usually worth an extra 5 minutes.

I've stoped runners, brought back runners, and scared off an unseen coyote or two that were with the first, but never have called in a different from another direction.

Brad

Posted by browning204 (Member # 821) on July 27, 2006, 05:24 PM:

20-30 mins. But I'm new

Posted by PAyotehunter (Member # 764) on July 27, 2006, 05:35 PM:

The fastest I ever had one come in was 8 min. the longest was a little over an hour. I never had a second one come in after the first one was down. Last fall I did have a coyote come in about 2 min. after I shot a fox.

Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on July 27, 2006, 05:55 PM:

Its real hard for me to give a stand time. It will range from 10-60 min. Just depends on what info I have on the area I am calling. Meaning, if I know there are coyotes there I may do what ever I can to get them to show. It will also depend on what coyote vocalizations I am using as well and the type of area I am hunting.

And the weather, temps, and as bad as I hate to say it....What my gut feeling tells me. We seem to kill alot of coyotes around here at the 15-20 min mark.

As for how long for the second coyote.....It really depends on how the first coyote acts when it comes to the call.

Brent

Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on July 27, 2006, 06:05 PM:

20- 25 minutes all year long. i want to be sure i've worn out my welcome before moving.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 27, 2006, 07:00 PM:

Probably about 15 minutes (daytime) on average. Most coyotes seem to show up in a 4 to 6 minute window. I'll stay on stand longer early morning, late evening, or overcast days when I think the coyotes are moving and may travel into my sound pattern. Less time if I think I'm calling to bedded animals. I tend to stay on rifle stands longer than shotgun stands. Any bobcat sign is also reason to stay longer as is the sunset stand. Any stand that I don't have much confidence in is usually a short one. Which brings us to the all important 'gut feeling'.

(Mounting Soapbox) The gut feeling is the result of a persons knowledge and experience reacting to subtle sensory input. It can be wrong sometimes, but it can also be fine tuned by paying attention. As a person gains confidence thru success, it becomes easy to rely on what the gut feeling is telling you.

If everything about a stand feels good and it's been about 15 minutes, I'll often 'smoke the stand' just sitting & enjoying the view and the quiet and a cigarette. And yes, I've had to put the cigarette down more than a few times to kill a late arrival sneaking in.

Posted by PAyotehunter (Member # 764) on July 27, 2006, 07:17 PM:

You sound like Dennis Jerk, oops I meant Kirk. I went to one of his seminars(in 91). He said he would fire one up while walking to his set up to see the wind direction, and often have a second on the same stand.

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 27, 2006, 07:32 PM:

Answers are running about what I thought they would,and I agree, 15 minutes is about it for me too. At times I'll hang around for 20 or more minutes, but it's rare.
As for how long I keep calling after I have one or two down on the first response, usually 3-5 minutes,which I believe is enough time for a straggler that hung back to come in, if its going to.

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 27, 2006, 08:19 PM:

When I was using the JS512 I would stay till the tape ran out which was 30 min. of course but now that I use hand calls most of the time 10-15 minutes. I did call more cats with the JS.

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 27, 2006, 09:03 PM:

10-20 minutes is enough for me, if I'm there longer than that, then I'm either in cat country, have one hung up, or most likely have dozed off. I hate to think of all of the times that I have been startled awake by the sound of running feet.

Once I shoot a coyote, I tend to add an extra five minutes to my stand.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 30, 2006, 12:39 PM:

I was just over on the darkside lurking around.They have a similar topic over there.(Decoy set).That goofy bastard J-H has as screwed up views with his coyote calling as he does with his politics.LOL Saying guys are screwed up making 10-15 minute "contest calling stands".And saying you need to stay on a stand 45 minutes to be very successful.(even in the west),and any coyote that hears his calling, he will kill.Calling himself a Zen Master to coyote calling.I think the guys a legend in his own mind.LOL Just thought it was kind of funny.Good Hunting Chad

[ July 30, 2006, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 30, 2006, 02:09 PM:

Chad, you don't hunt with Airedales, so you don't understand. Once you turn them dogs loose, it'll take at least 45 minutes or more to catch them again, and if they don't come back smelling like a skunk, you will be spending the next hour or two pulling porcupine quills out of them.

You can sometimes get four stands in a day, if you hunt real hard, just by using those dogs.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 30, 2006, 03:21 PM:

You got that right Tim B. those airedales love to get stuck with those porcupine quills. When i had hidi on a hunting trip she run off and came back a hour later and her face was full. It was more than the both of us could bare so i took her to a vet to get the quills out.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2006, 03:58 PM:

Chad, I think you hit on the motivation for the original topic. Supposedly, (and understandably) the reason he badmouths contests is that he never did well on them? And, that was pre airdale. But, ask a few of his buddies, like Vic and Tim.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by LionHo (Member # 233) on July 30, 2006, 04:18 PM:

45 minutes minimum to a couple of hours. But that's cuz I'm after cats , not especially coyotes (and close-up pictures of them, to boot).

It's rare that I'll call a bobcat sooner than 20 minutes. Probably average 30 minutes. I've had them bound over within 30 seconds, though.

I've also called a fair number of coyotes beyond 15 minutes, but like Rich said, they were probably travelling into range.

Fox sometimes get curious and come in at about 20-25 minutes.

LionHo

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 30, 2006, 05:28 PM:

I`m sure you`ll get over it Chad.

15 to 30 mins. for me depending on the location.

I hunt with Airedales Tim & have never had to "catch" them nor wait for 45min. whilst they do what they please. That may have been your experience but is not indicitive of hunting with all Airedales.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 30, 2006, 06:44 PM:

Nothing really to get over JD.I've been hunting coyotes long enough to see through most of the B.S.And I need hip boots to wade through the stuff J-H is piling up.LOL

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 30, 2006, 07:09 PM:

I think Tim is describing a sub-species known as the AZ Airdale.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 30, 2006, 07:56 PM:

[Smile]

I was just stirring the pot a little Chad, which seems to be the premise of this topic. [Smile]

JRB....That`s the exact breed I own. I`m not taking a shot at Tim or his opinions I`m merely interjecting some truth into the grudge match.

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 30, 2006, 08:00 PM:

Jason, I'm not trying to condemn any man's choice of dog. I can only comment on the one's I've hunted with, if others of that breed are different, then I just haven't seen it yet. If I thought an Airedale would make a valuable and positive influence on a coyote stand, I would own and use one.

If you like them, then go right ahead and use them, but don't try to tell me how an Airedale makes a good coyote calling dog. I've given more than a fair share of them a chance, and them dogs can't hunt.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2006, 08:41 PM:

I've seen Cal's video. HIS dogs mind their master.

By all accounts, JH's dogs run amuck and any coyote that shows up is run off by THE NATION.

If that's how it's supposed to be, I'll be dipped in shit!

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 30, 2006, 09:04 PM:

I wasn't disagreeing Tim. My experience with Airdales is limited to one day of hunting with JH's dogs- and it wasn't productive. Not a fair shake for any tactic or product, just putting my spoon in the pot.

Hell I just noticed there are two Jasons in this thread- kinda clouds the water of my response.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 30, 2006, 09:19 PM:

quote:
them dogs can't hunt.

and a .17 won`t kill a coyote either....Bullshit Tim, you`re grudge has caused you to see things a little blurry, shame on you for making a blanket statement based on how you see J-H & his dogs.

quote:
any coyote that shows up is run off by THE NATION

Bullshit on you too Leonard, I`ve seen them at work & NO their every move isn`t controlled as much as most would like but who am I to tell a man how to run his pack. I own one of the nation & he`s done just fine at tolling & helps out a great deal when coon hunting also. I own a female pup of the same blood that is even better. All of his dogs are not good tolling dogs but a few are. I suspect your replies have more to do with the owner than they do the dogs. I`m not trying to get involved in private affairs but I`m not afraid to call bullshit on even you two for those kinds of statements.

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 30, 2006, 09:24 PM:

Head for the door JD...

Bill Martz
Bill Martz
Bill Martz
Bill Martz
Bill Martz
Bill Martz
Bill Martz

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 30, 2006, 09:46 PM:

JD, if your dog hunts, good for you, I obviously never hunted with it.

Let me clarify my statement just a little better, I have never hunted with any dog of JH's that I would consider to be a hunting dog. Some of his dogs might have made good friends and companions, but they were useless on coyotes or bear.

Nothing against you or your dog, I'm just telling you what I have observed. If an Airedale made a good hunting dog, why wouldn't more Pro's be using them?

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 30, 2006, 10:09 PM:

I understand that your experience has been less than a good one & I`m O.K. with that I was just responding to a blanket statement.

Why don`t contest hunters use a .17 ? Most don`t, does that make it a bad cartridge?

JRB... I made no personal attacks on Tim or Leonard as I have as much respect for them both as I can with what I know about them. If Leonard tosses my ass out the door for having an opinion or belief that doesn`t conform to his expectations of me...well...I`d be shocked, however I`m a big boy & can handle the consequences of my actions should there be any. But be warned that the next time you reference Wild Bill in comparison to me I probably won`t be as civil. [Smile]

Posted by ACC (Member # 903) on July 30, 2006, 10:14 PM:

Back on topic, probably about 15 minutes unless hunting for the bigger stuff.

[ July 30, 2006, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: ACC ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 30, 2006, 10:19 PM:

It's like this, JD.

Any man that sits a coyote stand outside of denning season with an undisciplined dog, is no authority on hunting coyotes. Nor will he be very successful.

We aren't going to reinvent the wheel here; dogs on a coyote stand is what's bullshit, regardless of the bloodline.

And, hell yes, it's personal; has been for a long time, but I don't see where that has anything to do with logic? Or truth?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by ACC (Member # 903) on July 30, 2006, 10:43 PM:

Leonard,

Are you saying that all hunting of yotes with dogs is BS?

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 31, 2006, 05:34 AM:

ACC,

If you can't read any better than that, maybe you need to give up the internet, and go back to TV.

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 31, 2006, 05:46 AM:

God I hate it when threads go to hell like this....

Heres my take. I have never called coyotes with JH. Never. I have never had a dog on a calling stand, outside of denning season. That was my dogs and only a few times. So, I guess I really dont know what Im talking about, I guess. I dont guess I can agrue the fact of hunting with dogs outside of denning coyotes. I do have two Airedales, one from JH and one from the same bloodlines. I wouldnt trade them for anything. Besides being good companions and buddies, they are great for treeing coons and squirrels. They will catch just about anything you put them on, or tree it. Just great all around hunting dogs, at least mine are. And, you cant hurt the damned things and I havent seen them tackle any animal yet that didnt end up dead. Hell, Tagger has killed the coyotes I have put him on quicker than alot of guys I have seen can with a rifle. I like that. Cal is right, they are a bit hard headed, but nothing a little proper training with a collar wont cure. Not alot, they are smart enough to pick up on it quickly. But, I would rather have a hunting dog anyday that I have to rein in a little rather than try and get them to start.

As for JHs dogs and tolling, I dont know. I havent been there. But, I do know this. Look at everything else in JHs life. His home is a sty. His camper is a sty. His trucks are patchwork. Does this mean that all adobes, trailers, campers, Ford F250s and Scouts are junk? Hell no, it means JH dont take care of shit and lets them go to hell. Is it any wonder his dogs are unruly on stand? Seems as if his whole life is. Im not joining the JH bashing crew either, just stating facts.

As for JD, I know him pretty well too. I have never hunted with his dogs. I do know this though, he is one hell of a standup guy. If he says his dogs do something, you can take that to the bank. And, hes not a KHD ass kisser either. He will call bullshit on him as quick as he did this thread. I can vouch for that too. JDs life is not out of whack. Hes a good guy that works his ass off. Nothing in his life is even close to JHs. Just like his dogs.

From what I have seen, Leonard is right. This is personal. And, I dont blame you. I wasnt around when alot of the BS on the boards took place. But, if it happened to me, I would probably be pissed too. I understand Tim and Vics points too. I would hold a grudge as well if I had to put up with the same bullshit they have.

I havent hunted with my airdales enough to make a good informed opinion, especially on a calling stand. I dont know I will ever call with them outside of a few denning coyotes. I havent even scratched the surface on what it will take to convince me that I want a dog on a stand in the winter. But, on the same token, I do know enough that blanket statements about Airdales being no good, period, is bullshit as well.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 31, 2006, 06:14 AM:

Is the whole jist that longer stands pay off because sooner or later a coyote will walk into your "sound cone"? That's not much of a factor when you're dealing with square mile sections with coyotes that are reluctant to cross roads and hiways during the daytime. IMHO, most of the area's I hunt any coyote would more than likely be hearing the call from the get'go, although It wouldn't take much to convice me that under alot of field conditions, a coyotes hearing is overrated.

Dennis

[ July 31, 2006, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 31, 2006, 06:18 AM:

Thats kinda what I gather, Greenside.... That and something to do with chasing white rabbits while chanting through some mushrooms?? [Wink]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 31, 2006, 06:30 AM:

quote:
If you can't read any better than that, maybe you need to give up the internet, and go back to TV.

I like starting my day with a good laugh. [Big Grin]

Leonard, I shouldn`t have said a word about personal conflicts, that was probably out of line to begin with. But sometimes it seems (at least to me) that bad information is given on this board concerning any technique or method that J-H uses....just because it`s "him".

If you don`t like hunting with dogs on a stand, I`m O.K. with that but when you said

quote:
We aren't going to reinvent the wheel here; dogs on a coyote stand is what's bullshit, regardless of the bloodline.

....I gotta disagree with a blanket statement like that, even if it ruins Vics thread & stirs the natives a little [Smile]

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on July 31, 2006, 07:06 AM:

Well I don't think anyone could disagree on the fact the stand selection is the key. That's ultimately what going to get you the numbers when it comes to calling coyote. That's what gets you the coyote in the least amount of time. That's what get's you the coyote ,that everyone else says you can't call into the open.. etc.

I'm a firm believer in the Law of Diminishing Returns. If you know how it works, I think most coyote hunters would see what it means to the average coyote hunter. Is longer time on the stand more productive? If you throw the kitchen sink at them, on every stand ,will you harvest more coyote at year end than if you just used one sound?

Since there's only so much land to hunt will adding two,three or four times more hunters increase the harvest? Or will it decrease the harvest?

Will the Law of Diminishing Returns cause the sport of predator hunting to peak in the near future?

Dennis

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2006, 08:56 AM:

I don't think blanket statements should disqualify a man's opinion.

Always, in the back of my mind, I see Higgins working his dog for the camera. He gets some interesting stuff, but I don't think the dog serves a purpose, other than providing interesting video footage concerning coyote behavior. That's a different purpose.

I assume that we are discussing a broad category, here. Things needed, or not needed on a coyote stand. Dogs ain't one of them, except during specific times of the year, and they must be a certain type, decoy or "tolling", something along those lines.

What an airdale adds to a stand, other than trailing a cripple, I have not a clue? As far as I'm concerned, a dog on a "normal" coyote stand is of questionable value. Hence, my careless, blanket statement, which the average coyote hunter can view as pretty good advice.

Good hunting. LB

[ July 31, 2006, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 31, 2006, 09:52 AM:

"If you throw the kitchen sink at them, on every stand ,will you harvest more coyote at year end than if you just used one sound?"
----------------------
Well no, but at least you will be teaching the coyotes some real good survival training. [Wink]

Posted by ACC (Member # 903) on July 31, 2006, 09:52 AM:

Oh my, just woke up from watching Coronation street and thought I would check out the internet.

Thanks Leonard for clarifying your earlier statement.

ACC

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 31, 2006, 03:18 PM:

I DO agree with some of those statements, J-H thinks everyone should use a dog...I think absolutely NOT, it aint for everyone & there`s nothing in it for the AVERAGE coyote hunter who makes a few stands a month during the winter, nor would it be good for a contest hunter for obvious reasons but for someone who has the patience to work with a dog & enjoys dogs it can be very rewarding. I HAVE seen my own Airedales toll a coyote quite nicely & a few times it has been a coyote that I missed in the tall grass that would have likely left without me knowing. I believe that they are an asset in many situations & I don`t see why they couldn`t be an asset in most situations if trained properly.

Make no mistake Leonard & Tim, I respect both of you & your knowledge of coyotes I`m just the kind of person who likes to dig a little deeper into "generalisms" & pick out some useful techniques for those who like to play as much as I do. Your opinions have been formed from years of experience as with most of us here & speaking in terms of the average coyote hunter.....you may very well be right about dogs on a stand to a certain degree but I`ve seen some fantastic results from an Airedale on stand so we`ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. [Smile]

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 31, 2006, 03:55 PM:

JD,

Let me clarify my statement just one more time. I made a broad blanket statement that I knew was wrong, and I knew when I wrote it that someone would call BS on me.

But I had a very good reason for doing so. I wanted to torque up you and Andy ( I had forgotten that Tim A. has one too )

Andy hit the nail on the head, the lack of discipline in those dogs has probably soured me on ever wanting an Airedale, or any other dog on a calling stand.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 31, 2006, 04:28 PM:

[Big Grin]

Me, get torqued up?!

I understand what your saying, in fact the first few times with Puck had me taking some short time outs so I didn`t murderize the poor bastard, but we got past all of that, Dogs in general are a lot of work to get trained to do any kind of hunting & if you`ve hunted with unruly dogs it WILL sour you, that`s for sure.

I`ve trained & hunted with bird dogs quite a bit in the past & have literally cussed people for having unruly dogs in the field & I myself have owned a few unruly ones( for a short while)

I feel about Drahtars what you feel about Airedales. [Smile]

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 31, 2006, 04:35 PM:

Tim, I kinda figgered as much, you know, with the re-bar shootin stick shot and all.... [Big Grin]

And, I dont blame you a damned bit Tim. From what I have heard from you and Vic, I would be soured too. Hell, I dont know if Ill ever use my dogs for tolling in the winter. Havent yet. They are good dogs for other things though and from what little denning I have done, fine for that too.

[ July 31, 2006, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 31, 2006, 04:47 PM:

I think Leonards on top of this one, correctly so too. For wintertime coyote calling, a dog might be interesting,both for the hunt and companionship,but for turning more coyotes,or being a real asset,probably not. There have just been to many bonified professional dog guys who have posted here,say, a dog working a wintertime stand,will not be as beneficial as they are durring denning season,and, at times a hinderence. I think thats generally true,and matches what little Ive witnessed?
Lots of guys just love having dogs along,and thats great. They enjoy watching the dogs work,running here and there,and enjoy that part of it,along with the occasional good fortune of the dog doing what its purpose for coming was.
For "average" coyote hunters(whatever that means), calling wintertime coyotes, they are probably going to be as,or more sucessful killing coyotes without taking along a dog,although, for those of us who do want to skin the animals we kill,I will admit,taking a trailing dog can be an asset "when" the need arises. Although most times, even a trailing dog can be a hinderence,becasue the occasion to need one,is not very frequent,so you still have to attend to the dog at times.
If a dog on a wintertime coyote calling stand,was as beneficial as having a bird dog in the stubble fields hunting pheasant, I damned sure would have one,but they aren't,so I don't,as don't, most "average" coyote hunters.
Like Tim and most of the guys here, in wintertime, I hunt 3 or 4 days a week, from late sept thru early feb,so Im perfectly being an average coyote hunter. If I hunted from late feb thru july, I suppose I'd have a dog too, I'd love to have one of those Curs that Cal uses, absolutely gorgeous looking dogs,and look to be quite obedient and hard working.

Posted by Cowboyvon (Member # 854) on July 31, 2006, 07:37 PM:

Dogs on stand [Eek!]

Good post Az-Hunter Vic?

Up to 30 minutes and like was said somewhere else if it’s a good location I might stay longer especially early when I know the coyotes are moving. Of course I use dogs not to toll them but to catch them. Most of the time I don’t even carry a rifle with me.

Calling to me is just a way to use my dogs. As far as “reinventing the wheel” that’s just what I’m doing, trying to invent one that will fit my cart [Wink]

not yours. And as far as saying having a dog on a stand is just bs … come on now [Big Grin]

you do it your way and I'll do it mine [Wink]

I know most just like to pull the trigger on a coyote.. To me that’s just boring.If all I wanted to do was shoot coyotes than I’m pretty sure the dogs would stay home or at least back in the truck. There are dogmen and then there is everybody else if your a dogman you are always trying to figure out ways to use your dogs.

I’ve learned a lot reading the posts on these boards they really are valuable for someone wanting to learn but some of the egos are unbelievable.

And who would have ever thought JD, Andy and me would be on the same page a few years ago when it came to dogs and hunting coyotes [Eek!]

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on July 31, 2006, 08:44 PM:

Tell me how in the hell is a dog gonna be worth his feed if you only let him get fur in his mouth 25% of the year???

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on July 31, 2006, 10:32 PM:

quote:
And who would have ever thought JD, Andy and me would be on the same page a few years ago when it came to dogs and hunting coyotes

That`s a damn good point Bret, just goes to show that it`s worth the time to try & understand where someone else is coming from.

Hunting with dogs aint for everyone, that`s for sure but I sure enjoy hunting with them, I guess I have more fun on stands when I have the freedom to play around with the coyotes just a little, I`m not bent on putting up some kind of quota as would be the case in a contest hunt, I just want to enjoy my time in the field & play with the coyotes in ways that most are unfamilair with or opposed to because of pressures to "produce"....hell I got enough pressure on a daily basis that I don`t have any desire to carry THAT into the field with me. All I know is that I have a blast playing with coyotes & dogs & I could let most of those coyotes walk away from the gun without a scratch on them & be just as pleased with the days hunt.

JRB.....Don`t hunt with dogs, it`s not for you.

Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 01, 2006, 07:27 PM:

Too late Paco, I already own and run more hounds than most for various types of game. It's quite obvious when you go to trials or competetive hunts which dogs are trained right and which ones are run 6-8 weeks a year (When the owner feels like messing with them).

A guy like JH with such strict stipulation on WHEN a species can be hunted, ran or killed will certainly have dogs of lower quality than others who work their dogs year round in some capacity. No matter how much you paid for the mutt if he's part time worker he'll always be second rate. Any confusion over that comes from rose colored glasses on your part.

[ August 01, 2006, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 01, 2006, 08:34 PM:

What kind of dogs do you hunt, JRB?

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on August 01, 2006, 10:03 PM:

Oh for Krist sakes...a field trialer. [Smile]

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