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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on August 07, 2006, 07:34 AM:
Jason got me wondering about this on his callup remarks. What percentage of coyotes that you "callup" do you actually get shot?
I know everyone misses on occasion and gets winded at times.
Dennis
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 07, 2006, 10:35 AM:
Depends on the whens & wheres & with-whats. Early in the fur season, hunting known shotgun stands, I would guess that I dirt nap >90 ø/ø of the ones that I see. Mid-season cold calling while scouting with the rifle, the success drops off. Late season, anything can happen.
I know that many worship at the alter of accuracy, but I'm of the opinion that stand selection is a bigger factor in getting a quality shot off. When I set up my stands, I always think in terms of a 'kill box' that's well with-in range of my rifle or shotgun. Once a coyote enters the box, it's just a matter of taking a high confidence shot. Works for me......YMMV.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 07, 2006, 12:06 PM:
I'd have to say 75% or slightly higher. The country I call in doesn't have chest high sage, nor do I need to setup in thick brush. Mostly stubble and grazed pasture in the country I call, along with a decent view. With some careful stand selection and letting the coyote come as close as comfortable for me, a shot is almost certain.
Edit: For misreading the question.
[ August 07, 2006, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Lonny ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 08, 2006, 05:06 PM:
Looking at last year's numbers, right at 50%. One was a clean miss because my scope got knocked off zero, and the rest were survivors of multiple responses. In nearly every instance, the first one in the scope went down. After that, things went to hell. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm not ashamed to be honest. LOL
Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on August 17, 2006, 07:00 PM:
50% to 60% maybe. 56 called in since jan 01 and only killed maybe 20 to 30. I call alot of multiples it seems like and i cant shoot.
Edit because of sounding dumb on my part,hehehe
[ August 17, 2006, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 17, 2006, 07:28 PM:
Dureing the last couple of seasons i would say 60%, i bought some better equipement last season and i would say my % is up to 85% or better. Not claiming to be a better shot or caller, but thats just the way it is. Now this season it could be worse or it may get better. well have to wait and see.
Posted by Purple220 (Member # 173) on August 18, 2006, 08:32 AM:
If its singles coming in 80-90%, on doubles 50%.
But thats the ones I see. No telling how many come in undetected, especially in the thick stuff.
Purp
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 18, 2006, 09:20 AM:
I call in more than I see, and I see more than I kill. But I don't try to kill every coyote I have in the scope. But when I do decide to pull the trigger on one, 95% of the time he's DRT.
[ August 18, 2006, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 19, 2006, 10:43 AM:
Last year I hovered around 65% on killing my callups. Some stretches were better... like 13 for 13... but obviously there were droughts that offset that. The way coyotes are working a call on a given day has a big impact on this percentage.
I believe tweaking this percentage is the most direct affect a caller can have on his success. Easier said than done, but this % is where the numbers are.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 19, 2006, 02:25 PM:
Good point, Jason, but I have to agree with Ta17Rem in that better equipment is a big part of tweaking those numbers. It would be interesting to see how these percentages play out for guys using weapons that have been tweaked versus out of the box or off the rack guns, factory versus handloaded ammo, a customized call (factory ot custom) that you tuned to your own tastes, etc.
Speaking for myself, my percentages have gone up considerably since employing a better quality shooting iron. Maybe it's part the rifle, and just maybe it's part my sense of confidence in the rifle to do the task asked of it. One thing is for sure - when I shoulder my rifle these days, I'm more surprised to not hear that thwack!!! "when the bullet hits the bone" than I am when it does. All just goes to show how mental this game is.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 19, 2006, 03:33 PM:
A fair amount of that tweaking can be done with equipment... to me, the rest comes from hunting experience and coyote knowledge.
Live and learn just to die and forget it all.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 19, 2006, 05:31 PM:
I'd bet that anyone who has had a decent hunting background has seen very little increase in "numbers" because of more sophisticated/expensive/precise equipment. Maybe things are more fine-tuned or precise - more successful? I doubt it. Slight increase in success, sure. Noteworthy? Nope.
Can't buy the basics.
[ August 19, 2006, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: JoeF ]
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 19, 2006, 05:59 PM:
I'm talking far beyond the basics Joe... I think many of those who have seen strong success in their areas (as compared to their local competition) are taking advantage of better equipment. Be it arial photography, electronic calling units or accurate rifles results tell us they make a decisive impact.
Could a phenomenal master of "The basics" kill record numbers with a PC2, 22LR and an outdated platbook? Certainly, but those guys are few and far between.
Remember- Krusty had the basics.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 19, 2006, 06:46 PM:
Jrb, unless we are splitting hairs I really doubt that there is a huge difference between people who employee the latest gizmos and the ones who hunt as they always have.
I'll shut up and fall back on my home states' motto.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 19, 2006, 08:47 PM:
Hate to bud in but i switched to a BDC dial on my scope and i know it helped me increase my fur take for the season, i was able to make longer shots on coyotes , i also switched to a different style of shooting sticks and it also made a difference. More hits more fur.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 20, 2006, 08:18 AM:
Again, Jason, I agree. If your learning time is limited and you want to get on coyotes fast, you'd be best to spend that time learning and studying coyote behavior, moreso than trying to learn the latest, greatest calling technique. But, that wasn't my point.
Going back to the original query...
quote:
What percentage of coyotes that you "callup" do you actually get shot?
Knowing as much as you can about coyotes is going to produce the "callups".
Having the best equipment your budget can afford and maximizing its effectiveness in the field, as suits you, is what brings that percentage closer to the century mark in my opinion.
I'm the last person to preach about accuracy and marksmanship, but I've hunted with some real sharp shooters and expert callers, and the common denominators that run thru that crowd are (1) a comprehensive understanding of all facets of the coyote's behavior, and (2) the ability to use their rifle almost as a natural extension of themselves.
Other than that, I'm mostly in agreement with you. Except for the part about e-callers. Sure, they'll up your kill rate, but whose doing the calling? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 20, 2006, 10:05 AM:
quote:
Except for the part about e-callers. Sure, they'll up your kill rate, but whose doing the calling?
Lance, you've been spending too much time talking to those guys from the PVCA. We're in the 21st Century now, some of those guys are still stuck in the 19th.
Knowing when and how to work a remote can be just as challenging as knowing how to work a hand call. With the advent of MP3's and other forms of electronic recording, you can even use your own sounds to attract the coyotes.
An electronic call can do anything that a hand call can do, and it can also do a lot of things that just aren't possible with a hand call.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 20, 2006, 01:41 PM:
Tim Behle,
You must have seen some of those same photos that I have. You know the ones showing a young "expert" caller sitting there with his rifle on fancy shooting sticks, and his trusty remote controlled calling machine sitting right beside him . Sometimes the guy actually is holding the speaker in his hand. I look at those photos and shake my head in disbelief. If a man ain't gonna use the advantage of getting the sound cross-wind where coyote don't smell him or at least out away from himself so coyote don't SEE him, then why the heck bother with an electronic caller? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 20, 2006, 02:49 PM:
quote:
why the heck bother with an electronic caller?
Because some people simply cannot master something as simple as,
Exhale, repeat, exhale, repeat, exhale, repeat, dot-dot-dot!
Sure, I see the benefits of e-callers, and I've used them a time or two. Own two of them. But, I just don't derive the same sense of accomplishment with a caller as I do driving one of my own calls. But, hey, to each their own. Call me ol' school.
[ August 20, 2006, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 20, 2006, 03:51 PM:
I like to use electric callers because of more volume, on the slow days or days with some wind i will go to the electric caller. I'm satisfied calling in a coyotes with electric or hand calls. I'm out there for the hunt and the fur not tradition. What ever it takes to put fur on the board.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 20, 2006, 06:08 PM:
"Because some people simply cannot master something as simple as,
Exhale, repeat, exhale, repeat, exhale, repeat, dot-dot-dot!"
------------------
Lance,
I just KNEW that if you and I hung out on the same board long enough we would find something we agreed on.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 20, 2006, 06:12 PM:
Lance, if you can find me an odorless midget that's incredible with handcalls send him my way. Put that dude in a ghillie suit and throw him in a tuft of Johnson Grass- I'd call him a hunting partner anyday.
If you're not coming to AZ in October you need to come out here to Indiana in January. Unless that midget thing pans out: I'll show you how the electronics have improved my success on calling coyotes in the hardwoods.
TimA we need to combine your passion for putting up fur with my desire to kill furbearers. I dispise putting up coyote fur... I believe I subliminally stink up K-9 sets just to catch possums.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 20, 2006, 07:28 PM:
I'd love to make it to AZ, but these guys don't set a date until, well,... about now, and unfortunately, my annual leave for now was scheduled back in November '05. January leaves me a week to hunt here locally and I save my traveling money for November. Maybe some time in the future. Planning our hunts for '07-08 now to some extent. And btw, I don't know any midgets, let alone odorless ones with their own ghillie suits.
Admittedly, I can think of only two instances where I used an e-caller. One was last fall in Colorado. After two days of calling at high altitude, my lips were bloody raw from being chapped. I had to use the caller or not hunt. That's that day I shot the female in the face. Saw her out the truck window and told my partner to let me out. Only after he was about a hundred yards out did I realize my caller was lying on the truck seat. I had my lanyard around my neck. God, that stand hurt like a bitch. The first series of calls split the skin wide open. Sounded like something was getting its ass kicked by a rabid bunny.
The only other time is if I'm too bored to use hand calls, and if I'm that bored, I usually head for home.
Oh, and coons. That's three.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 20, 2006, 07:57 PM:
Just tell the Boss that the stress is getting to you and you are on the verge of going Postal..... Unless you'd just rather stay back and look after all of those unprotected sheep....
Posted by sdyote (Member # 814) on August 21, 2006, 07:22 PM:
My question is if you wanted to increase your knowledge of coyote behavior can anybody recommend good sources of information? I have Rich Higgins Up Close and Personal volume 1. Any others books or videos anybody would recommend? Any other suggestions short of spending countless hours in the field?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 21, 2006, 07:41 PM:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/field/logan.html
Start here. Type in "coyote" and muddle your way though all the technical stuff to the meat and potatoes.
That, and twenty-five years of field experience.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 21, 2006, 07:46 PM:
Without false modesty, I believe that you can learn what you need to know, right here on Huntmasters. Read the back pages and ask questions. This media was not available 40 years ago, but the learning curve is vastly shortened, in spite of the videos and "how to" books available. There is, literally; thousands of years of experience available, just for asking.
Cheap, too.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 22, 2006, 08:33 AM:
Leonard,
I agree with your last post. There are only one or two videos that I have seen which can actually help a feller become better caller. Even with those few good videos, you have to know what to watch and listen for. I learned more about trapping and calling by going out a time or two with knowlegeable men, than I ever got from any book or video. There are several very good callers that hang out on this board, and most of them are willing to pass on some good secrets for free. How could you ask for more?
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 22, 2006, 12:43 PM:
sdyote, my video is not instructional, just entertainment.
If I lived in South Dakota and were serious about learning everything coyote, I'd make my way over to Kadoka, corner Scott Huber and offer my sevices as a gopher, roofer, plumber, landscaper, anything useful to Scott, in exchange for letting me tag along on a couple of calling trips.
I would then drive to Gillette and do the same with Cal Taylor.
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on August 23, 2006, 12:44 PM:
I have sent a application to Cal Taylor offering to clean the kennels, bark when anyone comes down the drive so the dogs can save there energy.
I even had a mini- back hole installed on my wheelchair to bury the results of all the jacking. So far no response.
Posted by sdyote (Member # 814) on August 25, 2006, 07:23 PM:
Guys thanks for the info. Does Scott Huber visit the board often? What name does he post under if he does?
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 25, 2006, 08:12 PM:
sd-
You'll find him under Wile E.
Probably have more luck finding him over at Coyotes R Us these days.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 26, 2006, 06:56 AM:
sd-
There is a fellow that posts here under the name keekee that has a video out called "Hunting in the East-Back to Basics" that describes basic techniques as well as I have ever seen. He demonstrates distress calling and coyote vocalizations better than I have ever seen.
Posted by Baa1 (Member # 930) on August 26, 2006, 09:02 AM:
Rich Higgins,
Would a sheep distress work well in your area?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 26, 2006, 09:14 AM:
The biggest mystery is who stole "Anna" from the campout, last year .....and took her back to Texas?
Posted by Baa1 (Member # 930) on August 26, 2006, 10:14 AM:
Some dirty lowdown scoundrel stole Anna? I will not sleep well until the thief is caught and hung from a wagon tounge.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 26, 2006, 10:46 AM:
Watch that kinda talk, Baa1,
Using tongue, hung and Anna in the same breath around here can result in unintended consequences. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 26, 2006, 11:45 AM:
Anna survived the Texas assault last year. It was the other two that got disappeariated.
Anna will be at the campout again.
Edit: missed Cdogs post. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ August 26, 2006, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on August 26, 2006, 06:13 PM:
Can someone explain the sheep comments? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 26, 2006, 07:10 PM:
Okay, who's going to 'splain? Huh?
A little joking around with the Texans, and see what happens?
Now, 'cajn thinks we're a bunch of preverts!
Who's, going to step up with a believable explain?
Shucks, we meant no harm.....right?
Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on August 26, 2006, 07:16 PM:
Naw Leonard, I knew it was a joke, I just wanted to be able to laugh with ya instead of at ya.
Edit: I even did a search for anna and sheep trying to find an old thread about it, to no avail.
[ August 26, 2006, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 26, 2006, 08:55 PM:
Anna is what you might call a camp follower. She seems to show up at all the HM campouts. She likes LB, but has a particular fondness for Texicans, lol. Not very camera shy, either.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 26, 2006, 09:21 PM:
Sdyote; I do some calling out youre way, if you would like some help just give me a holler we could get together sometime. By the way what part of S.D. are you in?
Posted by Baa1 (Member # 930) on August 27, 2006, 07:00 AM:
I guess you could say that Anna is the black sheep of the family, but I like her very much.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 27, 2006, 07:40 AM:
This is Anna.
You may recognize two of her admirers.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 27, 2006, 08:29 AM:
Here is a link to a little clip of Anna that some may recognise.
Click here to watch Rich-and-Anna
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 27, 2006, 09:17 AM:
Well, ACC, you now know what it takes to be a true coyote calling expert: know what another hunter means when he makes any remark about Anna.
If you don't know 'bout Anna, you don't know 'bout shit.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 27, 2006, 10:08 AM:
ACC, Anna's not just another pretty face.
Here she is with Dr. Jaeger and his grad student at the National Wildlife Research Center.
Posted by sdyote (Member # 814) on August 27, 2006, 11:37 AM:
TA17,
I live in Sioux Falls but most of my hunting ground is central part of the state. North of Chamberlain if you're familiar with that area.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 27, 2006, 11:45 AM:
Sdyote: I was working just southwest of you this week by a town called Marion. I've been through the area you hunt, real nice coyote country. You see alot of hunters in that area in the winter?
Posted by sdyote (Member # 814) on August 27, 2006, 11:57 AM:
TA17,
The area I hunt has alot of coyotes most years as long as mange isn't making it's way through the area. The hunter numbers have definately increased the last few years. It used to be that I'd never see another caller but it's not unusual to see several different groups of people out calling that area now.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 02, 2006, 10:08 PM:
quote:
Remember- Krusty had the basics
Jrb,
You are mistaken. I did not.
It was a lack of "the basics", that screwed me, more than anything.
All I was armed with was a lot of "internet speak" and little or no actual experience.
No amount of information gleaned from the internet, or better quality equipment, can replace that.
If I don't know anything else, I know this.
Krusty 
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