This is topic Hunting Eastern Coyotes by Day??? in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by IHLAChairman (Member # 238) on September 03, 2006, 08:11 AM:
Any "best" methods that you guys know of? I have at least 12 different yotes within a 3 mile radius of my hunting camp. I want them all dead. I could incorporate traps or bait/poison but I would prefer to shoot them and get all of them to the taxidermist for some really cool mounts.
I figured between Leonard and the rest of the predator hunting experts here I would get a few great ideas on getting them out in the daylight where I can hunt them during my daytime visits to the camp. I don't have the tools or time to hunt them at night.
BTW, the coyotes I have seen have been very large, easily topping 55- 60 pounds.
Thanks, John
Posted by canine (Member # 687) on September 03, 2006, 08:31 AM:
All expenses paid KeeKee and I will come up to Pa. and give ya a hand killin them. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
It would be rather hard to type out all that you need to know as far as goin in and killin them. Plus i'm not big on typing.
email me at jd@keescalls.com send me your number and we can talk it over on the phone if you'd like.
JD
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 03, 2006, 10:50 AM:
If you got a dozen 55-60lb + "yotes" around camp, I wanna see em. JD and I were just having that discussion the other day. Ive seen alot of coyotes. We have good size coyotes around here. But, seems few ever top the scales over 40lb. Please weigh and post pics.
Steel traps would be the best bet if you really want to get rid of your coyotes. Problem is, you most likely wont. More will move in.
One question, why is it so important to get rid of these coyotes?
Posted by bigben (Member # 864) on September 03, 2006, 11:38 AM:
cause a lot of deer hunters are blaming coyotes for the amount of deer that are around. there is not a great ammount. Or maybe he has some problems with pets
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 03, 2006, 04:06 PM:
Hi John, member #238? I thought you were member # 1.
John, you need a hands on approach by an experienced caller if you want them shot and mounted. Check out Dave Dunbars resume in the "great" thread and shoot him an Email. That's far and away your best bet.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 03, 2006, 07:12 PM:
IHLAChairman,
They can be called during the day, but you almost have to go into the cover to do it. Eastern coyotes don't like to cross much open ground when coming to a call in daytime. You will never get all of them though. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 03, 2006, 11:16 PM:
John, that is making a mighty big statement"coyotes easilly topping 55-60 lbs."Whats those coyotes eating up there? I live about an hours drive from Johnstown.Maybe in a couple of weeks i will come up that way and check the area out.From what i seen that is some beautifull calling country.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 04, 2006, 05:49 AM:
bigben, you honestly believe that coyotes are depleting the deer herd in PA? I guess it could be possible, but not likely..... Coyotes get blamed for alot of things that just isnt the case. Easy targets.
Edit:
I did some quicky research. Some say there is no decline. Some offer several reasons for the decline, but not one mentions coyotes or other predators. I doubt very seriously if its happening.
Im sorry, I guess its just one of those things that gets under my skin. When someone comes along wanting coyotes wiped out and someone else blames them for the demise of another species, especially when theres a snowballs chance in hell thats the case, it eats at me. Coyotes get enough of a bum rap for things they actually do. They dont need an extra punch from the ignorant (not stupid, uninformed) public.
[ September 04, 2006, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
Posted by TrappinJohn (Member # 943) on September 04, 2006, 08:05 AM:
Andy
I did not get that Bigben believes the coyotes are eating all the deer out of his post. He was just answering your question with a common answer we here so often in PA. Everyone likes to blame the coyote.
A lot has happened here over the last few years.
1) 3 years of bad winters in a row
2) 3 years of terrible mast crop
3) Combined buck and doe seasons, doe went from 3 days to 2 weeks.
4) New "herd reduction" program of increased doe allocations
5) Oh, and don't forget, increase in coyote populations.
I'm sure there is more
John
[ September 04, 2006, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: TrappinJohn ]
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 04, 2006, 11:02 AM:
TrappinJohn,The number one reason for the decline in the deer population is caused by the hunters themselves.It's the hunters that buys 2-3-4 doe tags and goes out there and shoot all the doe.If you throw in the number thats wounded and dies in the woods there is not much left.Yes coyotes kill deer,but they are not the main culprit.Bears get there share of the young in the spring,just the same as the coyote.If there is any complaing about the deer herd,it needs directed toward the game commission and the hunters themselves.Sorry ,but i get damned mad when hunters want to blame something else,for what they cause themselves.I think deer hunters in Pa. should think a little bit before they open there mouth.I like to hunt deer too,but i don't need to shoot 2 or 3 more than i need and nobody else does either.Yes i am from Pa. and i know where to direct the bitching at and its not the coyote.
TrapperJohn,this isn't directed toward you,it's directed towards all that bitches about whats happened to the deer decline in this state.I think they need a wake up call to reality and start bitching about the doe license allocations.
[ September 04, 2006, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Melvin ]
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 04, 2006, 11:30 AM:
That sounds alot more like right, Melvin. PA is a highly populated state and very near many big cities. I would say the deer population would have to be very strong to maintain any type of multiple tags per hunter.
Much more credible than the evil coyotes....
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 04, 2006, 11:40 AM:
Didn't I read that 60,000 deer are killed on Pa. highways each year?
John, does the state issue depredation permits for soccor mom's SUVs?
Posted by CBGC (Member # 643) on September 04, 2006, 02:04 PM:
I think Melvin and TJ are correct there are many reasons for the deer herd being so low, but the main one is the hunters themselves. Here is an interesting article about the coyotes diet in PA.
It is kind of tuff to read and if you would like a better copy zip me an email and I will send ya one.
Posted by bigben (Member # 864) on September 04, 2006, 02:38 PM:
I do not believe it is only coyotes killin all the deer. what I meant is a lot of northern teir deer hunters state that the deer are being killed off by coyotes. then you get some weird ones that think the pgc imported mtn lions to take care of the coyote pop. it is a mix of things trappn john pretty much got it nailed down
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 04, 2006, 02:49 PM:
I bet that most of the coyote turds sampled, were taken with in a quarter mile of a highway.
Kind of like taking turd samples at Denny's to see where folks had recently eaten.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 04, 2006, 03:32 PM:
If there is 60,000 deer killed annualy in Pa that would explain why the coyotes have so much deer in there turds. The state of Minn. did a study on coyotes a couple years ago and found that the coyotes here only had 20% of deer in there diet and the rest was plants and bugs in the summer and Mice, rabbits, squirrel. game birds and some corn dureing the winter months. We have areas where the deer numbers are low and the cause of that is rough winters and too many hunters for that area. In some areas the deer are able to keep a stable size herd buy produceing twin fawns and sometime triplets.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 04, 2006, 04:00 PM:
"If there is 60,000 deer killed annualy in Pa that would explain why the coyotes have so much deer in there turds."
--------------
Exactly! Just because the coyotes ate deer meat don't necessarily mean they killed em. I eat beef every day, but I actually can't recall ever killing a cow. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on September 04, 2006, 06:02 PM:
this is very interesting. on one hand we give the coyote credit for being the most adaptable proficient predator on the planet. then on the other want to deny that they can impact a prey species population in any way.
sure cars and hunters take many more deer a year across the U.S. than coyotes do but glossing over the coyote's impact on prey populations is just insane. i am not blaming just coyotes for declines but they are part of the equation. bears, lions, coyotes, hunters and cars equal lower populations.
i see many 'possum feeding on deer that some slob hunter shot, took just the backstraps off and left the rest. do i think the 'possum took it down? no. same with coyote that have deer hair in their scat. is it possible the deer did get taken by a coyote? of course but many more times than not it is just carrion. nobody is in complete denial but some are pretty close.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 04, 2006, 06:15 PM:
There used to be a place East of here called the Noble Foundation Wildlife something or other someway affiliated with Texas A&M but it was used to study deer and turkey mostly IIRC.
It's way off the beaten path and high fenced with an electric fence. I helped them rig up an electric release for their nets and got to know one of the guys there so of course I asked if they had any problems with coyotes (always looking for a new place to hunt).
They did a study of their own and found very little predation on deer or turkey, which surprised them all. Seems the coyote gets the blame wherever he goes.
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on September 04, 2006, 07:06 PM:
Dave,i don't dispute there findings,but i do disagree with those that blame the coyote for the dwindling deer herd.Lets look at the 2005 Deer Harvest report.Total Harvest-120,500 Antlered+233,890 Antlerless Deer.This totals out at 354,390 deer harvested.Doe supposedly average two fawns a year,so if we say these harvested doe were to have young,that would come to 467,780 fawns.Doe and fawns combined would come to 701,670.Now lets throw in the bucks,It comes to 822,170 deer.Now were not done yet,there is the deer killed by cars,poachers,and dogs(pets.)My guess is ,that would come close to a million deer in one year.Now you can see where all the deer are going and the coyote gets the blame. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 04, 2006, 07:06 PM:
In some areas though coyotes can be a problem. I got a call from a rancher friend in one of the western states one night and as usual he asked me when i was comeing out to hunt coyotes, i told him maybe in a week and i asked whats up. He said that the coyotes were killing his mule deer on his ranch. I asked him are you sure and he says yes about 500 yds out from the house on a big hill with a deep revine to the south. I told him i would head out tommorrow and see what i could do. When i got there his son got out the 4-wheelers and we went out to take a look. Sure enough the coyotes were killing the smaller mule deer. We found three areas were the deer were killed and eating, nothing left but the hair and a few bones. I went back to my truck and got my gear and headed out into the pasture, that day i called in a pair and took one and later on called in a single and got him. I did'nt get anymore call ins so i moved on to some other ranches. I thought to my self on the way home there has to be more coyotes around to inflict that kind of damage. only thing i could think of that they were staying accross the river or on the neighbers property. Well it turned out i was right the ranchers son had a friend come out to hunt and he got 6 coyotes out of ten, most of them were called off of the neighbers fence line to the west which was 4 miles away from the ranch house. This was just one ranch with the coyote problem,
Posted by TrappinJohn (Member # 943) on September 04, 2006, 07:37 PM:
Melvin's quote:
quote:
TrappinJohn,The number one reason for the decline in the deer population is caused by the hunters themselves.It's the hunters that buys 2-3-4 doe tags and goes out there and shoot all the doe
I believe I covered that with # 3 and 4
Coyotes are a small part of a big problem.
Posted by TrappinJohn (Member # 943) on September 04, 2006, 07:45 PM:
quote:
i see many 'possum feeding on deer that some slob hunter shot, took just the backstraps off and left the rest. do i think the 'possum took it down? no. same with coyote that have deer hair in their scat. is it possible the deer did get taken by a coyote?
I like that one..... I'll bet if they did a study on possum scat they find a lot of deer hair, that means.....
Posted by PAyotehunter (Member # 764) on September 05, 2006, 01:45 PM:
Quite a few years ago I did a "study" of my own on "road killed" deer. I did this in the winter around my cabin in Pike county. ALL the road kills or dumped deer that I was observing had coyote tracks all around them but were never touched.
Here are some that I was watching. I have no idea why these deer were dumped here. They were gutted but other wise still in tact. There was 3 or 4 and like I said tracks everywhere but not a single bite out of them. I watched them for a couple months.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 05, 2006, 02:50 PM:
Its obvious. The big bad coyotes killed them, ate the innards and left them to rot.
Wasteful bastards.....
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 05, 2006, 05:46 PM:
Same thing happens here. Two years ago some hunters from Wisconsion hunted in Minn. and dumped there deer on the way home. One of the hunters must not of been very bright, he left his tag on the dead deer. after questioning with the DNR he could not take the pressure and turned in the whole crew.
Posted by CBGC (Member # 643) on September 06, 2006, 04:39 PM:
melvin
I dont blame the coyotes on the herd reduction just thought it was an interesting clip from the paper. They kill deer. Does it amount to much? I doubt it.
TB
I dont think the guys from PS did their scat grabbing around the roads. Most of those guys love the woods and like to get back in. The ones I have meet dont take shortcuts they are for real, now the PGC on the other hand could be a different story.
Posted by IHLAChairman (Member # 238) on September 09, 2006, 04:41 PM:
Thanks for the replies. I haven't weighed any since I haven't killed any but they look HUGE! I was judging by a few dogs that I do know the weight of. I have read where they can reach 40-55 pounds around hear and some of the ones I have seen look big.
I can't say they are killing any deer but if they are in my core hunting areas, the deer won't be. I have been wanting to get a few of them to the taxidermist since I've seen some really cool mounts.
Anyone that wants to come hunt them is more than welcome but it'll have to wait until '07 now since I will be in deer and bear hunting mode for the rest of this year.
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