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Author
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Topic: Called to killed
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 29, 2007 10:48 AM
Scott brought up a topic that makes me think. quote:
Unfortunately there is far more coyotes that are called in and missed than are called in and shot.
I keep track of the stands I make, number of coyotes I call and the number of coyotes I kill each year. Along with these statistics there is another variable that we forget to account for."The number of coyotes that are called that we don't see" but that is another topic.
My question is what is your called to killed Ratio? and just for fun, what is your hit to miss ratio?
my called to killed is 3.1 to 1 this year so far
my miss to hit ratio is 1.3 to 1 this year so far
just thought it would be fun to see what other hunters and areas would produce for stats
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted March 29, 2007 02:25 PM
Sly: "Scott brought up a topic that makes me think."
Well that's a good start! LOL!
If you are to present this objectively Sly, you might remind readers that you have previously stated that you have exclusive rights to call in the areas you are calling. That's a huge advantage and can hardly be compared to an area of heavy calling pressure which requires longer shots. If they are educated, you are doing the educating. If they are being educated on adjoining property, that has a limited effect on calling them in their safety zone behind locked gates (exclusive access).
I've already posted my percentages. I NORMALLY kill coyotes on 50% of my stands and kill 50% of the coyotes I see that I have access to but I am almost always calling places where others have called before me.
My shot to kill ratio is good until a try a running coyote out the window. On my last 5 stands I am 5 for 5. LOL! (352 yds, 250 yds, 323 yds, 100 yds, and 200 yds). On my last pickup window coyote I am 0 for 4 and the #*^#@%*&#@ is still running.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 29, 2007 02:55 PM
"On my last pickup window coyote I am 0 for 4 and the #*^#@%*&#@ is still running."
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Scott,
Did you learn that method from a Minnasoteeian who was up there recently? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted March 29, 2007 03:16 PM
On those running coyotes out the window, just keep driving as you shoot,eliminates the need for a lead and provides a good excuse for the inevitable miss.I have killed many coyotes on the run but only because I have missed many,many more.I think about 30% on the long distance run may be accurate.
As far as kill ratios, on calling I hunt with someone who is a better shot than I am and if one of us chooses to shoot, 3 of 4 are probably dead.Pretty close to that here in the snow at home,maybe even a little better.The advantage is leaning in my direction if I have the time and conditions necessary to work them out in my area which I know well,but I have to admit I spend alot of time thru the season doing so.Sometimes I will hunt the same coyote(probably)several times over a period of several weeks before I get a shot that I am good with.Thanks
[ March 29, 2007, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 29, 2007 03:39 PM
LOL Rich. I was there to learn from Scott. Maybe i should start up an instruction class for those window shots and running coyotes. Two years ago i missed more coyotes that where standing still compared to runners... According to my log book i shot six in a row that were running and all six where head shots.... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Scott and i talked about how much lead is needed to hit a running coyote going 35 mph from right to left. The answer was around 8-10 Ft. depending on what the bullet speed is. A coyote running at a slight angle or straight away would require less lead. If you want the exact answer i would need the bullet speed you are useing and then compute it for the exact answer..
For me i'm used to seeing the site picture that i need to see then i squeeze the trigger, and follow through If you are makeing hits on running coyotes and hitting them in the butt you may need to work on youre follow through.
[ March 29, 2007, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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slydog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 389
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posted March 29, 2007 04:06 PM
LMAO... I have a few that I'm sure are still running or laughing one of the two.. I hate them damn runners.....lol
Not all of my hunting is behind locked gates but about 65% is and I like it that way. I have quite a bit of public lands that I frequent durring fur season and some of the lands that I hunt that are private are long strips 1/2 mile long and 4-5 miles long wich allows the coyotes to roam in and out of the propertys that I control. Therefore they do come in contact with other hunters throughout the year. The main ranch comprizes some 45000 acres but this is broken into 3 large propertys and there are many miles between them.
I do however understand your point it just ain't that cut and dried. At the winter corrals what you state is true to a point but for the rest of this ranch there are many varibles that contribute to the success or failure of each hunt.
On other ranches 3-4 thousand acre deeded with BLM ajoining I may as well be hunting public lands as the weekend hunters hunt all around them and by mid Dec. the coyote population has heard most of the more common sounds and are less likley to respond if calling toward known danger. knowing the ground helps but it don't change the fact that they respond differently than coyotes on larger ranches without the pressure.
One other tidbit of info that you also need to factor in is that I film 80% of my hunting and that will add a degree of difficulty that I'm sure you don't contend with. As anyone who hunts with a camera involved can tell you, it changes things and causes you to hunt differently than just walking out with your dogs in toe and a WT or a FoxPro and some hand calls. For me those days are long gone and a hole new set of rules now apply.
There is much you don't know grasshopper, about me and my hunting style, ability and the land that I hunt. I'm sure that if we hunted here in my country you would have a better understanding of what I deal with as would I by hunting with you in your country.
Thanks for the reply
sly
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Smote the Yote with a slydog custom call
Posts: 179 | From: SW Idaho | Registered: Aug 2004
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted March 29, 2007 04:57 PM
I'm going to have to start keeping a log I guess. All these technicle questions need written records to answer correctly. SO, I here by announce that I will keep records next season, for the first time ever.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted March 29, 2007 06:37 PM
Me too...
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 29, 2007 08:17 PM
Hell, the last one I shot out the window, I was driving side hill and he was moving....and I nailed him?
That was probably 5 or 6 years ago, I'm one for one, so far. Yeah, might have been a little luck involved.
Good hunting. LB
(two witnesses)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted March 29, 2007 08:29 PM
I had not kept a log for a long time, but I did this year and it reflects anyone on stand and anyone shooting. It really does not matter to me who is shooting or who is calling as long as everyone does their job.
121 call-ups with 69 dead animals. A few of those were coons, but for the most part they were coyotes and cats.
Hitting a running coyote between 75 and 200 yards certainly is not a chip shot, but it is a shot that should be made more often than not provided a person is standing on his two hind legs. Another reason I am a stool sitter. It is pretty easy to stand-up and position your feet for that type of shot.
I never see any air between the cross hairs and a running coyote. Always holding on fur. Takes out the guess work.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted March 29, 2007 09:32 PM
TA what distance was the coyote in the scenerio that you figured out? 8-10ft seems like a lot
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 29, 2007 10:12 PM
ND; i think it was 200 yds,i have to go run the numbers to get the exact distance.
Correction: 200 yds, bullet vel 3300 fps. 45 degree's.the lead should be 89"or 7.4 ft. not 8'. 90 degree angle would be 126"or 10.5 ft.for lead at 200.
[ March 29, 2007, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 30, 2007 06:44 AM
"Correction: 200 yds, bullet vel 3300 fps. 45 degree's.the lead should be 89"or 7.4 ft. not 8'. 90 degree angle would be 126"or 10.5 ft.for lead at 200."
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Has anybody else ever thought about just how nutso a guy would have to be in order to think like that? Do they make a handy Dandy "correct lead" gizmo to use directly after you figure exact speed a coyote is running, the exact distance he is from end of your bore when the bullet leaves same, the exact wind velocity, the exact direction said wind is blowing in relation to the angle the coyote is running and OH-OH the coyote is gone now. Not enough time to use all of those gizmo's. Shit! Nothing will ever replace practice and the use of proper follow through. Sorry Gizmo Bob, I ain't buying your methodology.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 30, 2007 07:36 AM
Yes Rich you are correct, but this type of info can give a new shooter a place to start. One thing to remember is youre lead would be much less on a coyote running more straight away than on a coyote running left to right..
Yes exsperiance would be the best way to learn proper lead, but not all callers or hunters are going to get that exsperiance the first year or second, and it has to do with coyote numbers. I on the other hand get up to 30 shots a year on running coyotes and thats what puts me at the top of my game..
[ March 30, 2007, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 30, 2007 09:22 AM
Numbers have meaning. But it's awful easy to make them sound how you want them to sound. Use my numbers from this season as an example...
My numbers for this last season are all screwed up. My partner and I take turns carrying a rifle and a camera, so there's only ever one rifle on stand. We trade-off whenever the man on the rifle takes a shot. So with two guys and one rifle, there's lots of ways to look at the numbers, both individual and total. Personally, I killed 29 coyotes out of 34 shot at this year. That sounds pretty good, 29 for 34. Most of the 5 that were missed, got missed more than once, though. Emptied the rifle on one of them, in fact. So if I were being completely truthful and not trying to make my stats sound better, I might have to say that I really only killed 29 coyotes with about 48 shots. Which doesn't sound nearly as good. Really could not say how many called in and escaped without getting a shot off at them while I was on the rifle, but it was at least 10, and probably more. So, say maybe 29 killed out of 50 called in. That sounds pretty good too. But I'm not counting any of the stands where my partner was on the rifle in that. And he had a really bad shooting year. He only killed 11, out of I'm not really sure how many, but it had to be close to my 34, since we switch whenever one of us gets a shot. So, say he was 11 killed out of 35 shot at. Most of those 20-something he missed were shot at more than once too. Puts him only like 11 coyotes for 55 shots this year. Damn, that stinks... Figure he had at least 10 not get shot at also. Makes him 11 killed out of 50 called in. Which makes our real numbers for the year something like 40 killed with 100 shots out of 90 called in. That just don't sound near as good as 29 for 34...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 30, 2007 09:28 AM
Oh, and I forgot, some of the ones both of us killed, took more than one shot. Either a first shot miss or needing a finishing shot. So our number of shots for coyotes killed numbers are actually a little worse than listed above. Probably puts me at over 50 shots for those 29 killed.
But if you ask me how I did this year, I'll probably tell you I killed 29 out of the 34 coyotes I shot at.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 30, 2007 09:42 AM
S'OK Dave, your stats look great compared to mine.
I called in maybe 300 coyotes over the past year and killed about 15 or so.
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted March 30, 2007 09:51 AM
"One thing to remember is youre lead would be much less on a coyote running more straight away than on a coyote running left to right."
The distance you are leading an animal does not change. It only looks different in your sight picture depending on the angle the animal is traveling, and you have more room for error on animals that are moving straight away.
I am with Randy on the running shots. I have rarely held past the nose on a coyote with the .204. Now this is another subjective description that gets into shooting techniques. All of which have a slightly different effect on follow through and the speed at which you are swinging the rifle. With runners 200 and under I get them in the middle of the scope, then speed up my swing until I have the crosshairs where I want them and then touch the trigger while maintaining that slightly faster swing speed. With my prayer shots, which I only use when I am in areas I don't hunt, but happen to see a coyote in the middle of a field. I use a sustained lead in which I guesstimate how far I need to hold in front of the coyote, match my swing with the speed of the coyote and then touch one off. I have no stats on these shots, but I would put them in the neighborhood of 1 out of 5. I can't wait until we have a caliber that will travel about 7000 ft a second so alomost all guesswork is eliminated.
Disaclaimer: My ratios from last year with 50% of my hunting using a camera, and 90% calling by myself, about 50% of my hunting on heavily called public land, rarely calling more than 2 coyotes at together, not including drive-by's, and only around 10% of my shots being over 200 yards.
called to killed - 3.85 to 1
I can't accurately state my miss to hit ratio because like DAA I didn't keep track of multiple shots and misses on a single coyote. So, turning those multiple misses into a single shot my hit to miss ratio is - 1.12 to 1
Decent ratios, but I pass up a lot of shots I don't feel real good about.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2007 09:52 AM
All of which proves to this kid that the question is meaningless. I remember back in the old days, I'd hunt all night, see fifty sets of eyes and kill maybe three? maybe 5? When they come in in groups, or any other alibi you care to submit, your percentages might go down but since it's (ultimately) a percentage game, the only thing that counts is the bottom line.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 01, 2007 06:18 AM
ta17 , I think you are shooting a high velocity round so is the 3300 fps a 200yd velocity or a muzzle velocity or average velocity ?
[ April 01, 2007, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 01, 2007 10:55 AM
Scott and me where just talking about how much lead would be needed for a coyote running 35 MPH. He got some info from someone with the formula to figure it out and we just used the 3300 fps for an example when we ran the numbers..if we used the vel. from the 17 rem or 22-250 ackley or a 25-06 the lead required would be much less. If a coyote is running more at a angle or straight away, much less lead would be needed compared to a coyote running from right to left. I have taken a few running coyotes by aiming at there nose, but they where not running flat out. most of the time the hard chargers would require a lead of 6" out to 2'. Also most of my shots are at a coyote running away rather than comeing to the gun and that is required for safety reasons...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 01, 2007 06:18 PM
An approximate time of flight to 200 yds for many rifles is about .25 seconds. A coyote running even 30 mph at a right angle is moving 44 feet per second. that is a movement of 8.8 feet in the time of flight of the bullet. Or 4.4 feet for a track of 45 degrees. Makes a guy wonder how he hits any on the run.I usually try to shoot one body length in lead.That can easily be gauged. where distance in feet can appear differently depending what magnification scope one is shooting. Still do not hit many though. Thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted April 02, 2007 05:37 AM
Here is a neat little trick to help you reduce your lead on a running coyote.
Swing your barrel.
Those ballistic programs give some extremely accurate information. But it is only useful to argue on the internet. They are designed for a stationary rifle.
Hold on fur, swing your barrel and watch the coyote fold.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted April 02, 2007 05:58 AM
A running "flat-out" coyote will do, upper-high 30's to low-mid 40's. A rare one, over 45mph with sighthounds on it's carcass.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted April 02, 2007 06:23 AM
"Those ballistic programs give some extremely accurate information. But it is only useful to argue on the internet. They are designed for a stationary rifle."
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Exactly!!! And even then, the lock time, accurate measurement of lead etc. would have to be computed. There is no time for scientific gizmos when it comes to shooting running coyotes. Practice is where it's at.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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