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Author
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Topic: What are your thoughts
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted April 08, 2007 06:40 AM
What are your thoughts...
Do you think A Coyote that just got shot can put together in his head that a hunter just shot him with a projectile?
My though's are that he only feels the unexpected discomfort and instant Paine that sends him fleeing the area.
why wood a coyote lung shot or gut shot do anything more then flea the area were he just had a bad experience and lay up were he feels safe ,
And what would make a coyote go a 1/2 mile before laying up?
[ April 08, 2007, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted April 08, 2007 06:55 AM
I think a coyote often bites at the spot of bullet impact because it "thinks" what ever it is that just hit it in that spot needs bitten and removed from itself. If the coyote didn't see of smell human, it has no reason to "think" a human inflicted the pain!
The only reason a coyote would flee for a long distance is if it saw or smelled human at the spot or saw human following after the injury happened, or if it was in a very open area and it didn't feel safe until covering a long distance!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted April 08, 2007 07:11 AM
I believe a coyote can associate the pain with the gun blast with the call before it. Conditioned response. If they couldn't they would not become call shy because the call didn't hurt them.
I believe most coyotes are "gun shy" because they associate gun fire with people. Very few coyotes are not exposed to gun fire in their lives which is usually directly associated with people smells and voices. Pheasant hunters, grouse hunters, deer hunters, antelope hunters, and coyote callers. The vast majority of these hunters missing or stinging those coyotes. For every 1 coyote that is killed there is probably 6 - 10 that were shot at.
When we used to skin hundreds of fox and coyote while trapping in the "fur boom", about 25% of all coyotes and fox had birdshot in them. That should be a damn good indication of how many coyotes and fox are exposed to the association between gunfire and humans. 25% felt the sting let alone those that only heard the voices, smells of humans and then gunfire that missed.
So naturally any gunfire beyond that point would also be associated back to humans.
This same principle applies to dog training. Shock collars turn a dog back. Shock callers with buzzers before the electronic shock collar turns the dog back so the shock isn't needed. Whistles before the buzzer before the electric shock turns the dog back. Conditioned response.
Why do coyotes go 1/2 mile IN CERTAIN HABITATS before they hang up? Due to the association between gunfire and humans.
~SH~
[ April 08, 2007, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted April 08, 2007 07:14 AM
George, do think a meal worm can put it in his head that a researcher zapped it with 12 volts when it crossed an electrical grid to get to it's food? Since the meal worms soon learn to avoid the electrical grids they obviously associate it's location or it's composition with unpleasantries.
I would assume that a coyote would quickly associate any memorable sights, sounds, and scents that accompanied that gunshot, such as a distress call, a truck stopping or the sight or hot scent of a human, with the unpleasantness of the event and probably avoid them in the future.
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted April 08, 2007 03:20 PM
But if the coyote has never been hit by bird shot/bullet, then how does it know that it is in danger of being in pain from only a rifle report?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 08, 2007 05:12 PM
The coyote dose'nt know.
For an example; Here at home when hunting pheasants in the long grass, the coyote dose'nt flee the area because of gun shots by the bird hunters. The coyote will try to get in between the hunters and make his way back behind the hunters and then lay up. The coyote is more affraid of the hunter and his dog than he is of the gun shots.
What really scares the coyote is the bullet hitting the ground next to it. When the bullet hits the ground it blows apart sending schrapnel and dirt in all directions and some of it hitting the animal.
A few years back i shot a red fox at 767 yards, when i took the first shot at the fox it would move a few yards and stop and look back at the ground where the bullet struck. I shot five times all together at the fox and he only ran a few yards each time. I know he heard the report of the gun but he was more worried about what was makeing that buzzing sound and the thud of bullet hitting the ground.
Coyotes will do the same thing, unless there is something out of place like a pick-up near by, the coyotes kind of put two and two together and then associate the bang, and the bullet hitting the ground and a parked pick-up as danger. If the pick-up was out of site then they would associate the bang with the bullet strikeing the ground as danger. Now you have a conditioned coyote.
The next thread should be on how not to condition a coyote....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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blakyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1064
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posted April 08, 2007 06:39 PM
quote:
And what would make a coyote go a 1/2 mile before laying up?
Because their tough and have a will to survive.It's amazing how far they can go with no guts.I've seen it a couple times,a little gut pile every so often tracking one that was gut shot,when you do find them their buried deep in a brush pile with no guts,had one this year that my partner shot,it was his first coyote so was a little jittery.The coyote went about 400yds,we kicked him out of a slash pile,and finished him with a load of 4 buck as he was taking off.
quote:
My though's are that he only feels the unexpected discomfort and instant Paine that sends him fleeing the area.
I don't feel that an animal feels pain like we do,I've deer that have been shot that had broken legs that have heeled,shot a coyote that had a leg that looked like it had been shot but healed.People would invariably die if they were wounded or suffered an injury with no medical attention.You hear of survial stories which really calls on a persons will and strength to survive,but eventually they are found and get medical attention,if they didn't get that help at the end they would die,but animals like the coyote manage to survive,or go as far as they with injuries that would put us down on the spot.
Just my buck-$2.80
Posts: 36 | From: N.WI | Registered: Dec 2006
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 10, 2007 04:57 AM
I think a coyote will prioritize any number of threats. Rifle blast,bullet strike, voice ,smell etc.The most immediate and threatening is what they react to. A close bullet strike may be more threatening than the distant rifle report.Anything new in their environment they may first try to establish thru caution what threat may be associated with it. No thinking involved!! Humans think. Coyotes react. As Wiley terms it,"conditioned response."Plain old Pysh 101 .I don't go along with the whole" the coyote did this because if I was a coyote that is what I would do." Wrong,leads to alot of useless, time consuming and tiresome speculation.If some guys could speculate them to death, there would not be any left.My -.02 cents. thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted April 10, 2007 07:44 AM
quote:
But if the coyote has never been hit by bird shot/bullet, then how does it know that it is in danger of being in pain from only a rifle report?
Why do some coyotes spray urine in a blind panic as they make their mad dash for safety after being missed by a gunshot? There was no pain and I doubt that the fear was as specific as fear of death or fear of injury. Probably they have associated that boom as a major threat from past observations, experiences and behavioral transfers from associate coyotes.
quote:
Wrong,leads to alot of useless, time consuming and tiresome speculation.If some guys could speculate them to death, there would not be any left.My -.02 cents. thanks
If we stopped speculating about coyotes and their behavior this board would soon die. One of the four most common adjectives used to describe the nature of the coyote is "varied". Everyone has heard this and yet we still try to stuff coyotes into a "one size fits all" category. Coyote's behavior is influenced by their environment and their recent experiences and since we cannot possibly know what those specific influences were we are left with speculation.
edit spelin
[ April 10, 2007, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
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blakyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1064
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posted April 10, 2007 11:55 AM
quote:
Why do some coyotes spray urine in a blind panic as they make their mad dash for safety after being missed by a gunshot?
I don't know,but have seen it happen a few times,the longest I've seen a coyote pee while running after the shot was about 50yds,then stopped peeing for a few yards and then pee'd again for another 25yds or so.
Posts: 36 | From: N.WI | Registered: Dec 2006
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted April 10, 2007 12:36 PM
You guys see the number of coyotes in a month, or week, that I see in a year, so correct me if I'm wrong.
From the coyotes I've observed, that I've missed, if the bullet "zing-ed" past them and they heard it they more often than not ran for the next county. Something invaded they're personal space, something not typical in their world, and they wanted no part of it.
On the coyotes that the shot range out but they didn't hear a "zing", either I've grossly mis-calculated the range/holdover and the bullet hit the dirt/snow or I've had a branch or two grab/deflect a bullet. In that event the coyote only heard the far off boom, nothing in his personal space, and was concerned, but rarely have I had one run for the next county. Some stop and stare, most start walking or trotting, I've had a couple start walking or trotting right at me, but with the echo'ing of the boom (I call mostly into valleys) who knows what direction they thought they were going, towards or away from the boom.
Just my observation, have you guys seen similar?
On coyote's that heard the "zing" I think it's alwyas been "game over" for me. However on coyotes that don't hear the "zing", it's not been "game over". Twice this winter (dec and jan) I underestimated a coyote's distance and shot under the coyote. Both times the coyote jumped and both times I got the coyote to stop with kiyi's and held the coyote there with howls and whines and whimpering, the coyotes both calmed down. The first coyote (december) walked off and I repositioned myself so our paths would cross and got within 200 yards of her, called her with a different distress call, she stopped and then approached me to 150 yards. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) The second coyote (january), didn't walk off but after the kiyi's and whimpers started circling me, he's my coyote being tanned right now.
So I think (and like I said, might be wrong) that the bullet "zing" does more to scare the pea out of a coyote than the boom.
Maybe most the coyotes I've crossed paths with hear the boom and they think a pheasant or turkey or deer or squirrel or something is being killed and aren't fearful for their life. But when they hear the "zing" they think they're about to be killed and know to run for their lives. Probably just has to do with the amount of coyote hunting pressure they feel in my area, I'm guessing low.
later,
scruffy
[ April 10, 2007, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted April 10, 2007 12:51 PM
Scruffy
I agree. IMHO, they really dislike the "Crack" of the sonic boom. Must be some kind of a sound pitch treshold. That's one of the reasons we usually tip over the first one on multiples. It seems they can be harder to stop if they have just had a bullet fly over or along side of them.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 10, 2007 01:34 PM
I can agree with that, having worked the pits at the range. The sonic "snap" as I call it, is a lot more distracting than a distant loud noise that sounds a heck of a lot like thunder.
On the other hand, I once fired five shots at a coyote that not only didn't run off, he stayed (basically) in the same area. I'm sure it was the gun, I don't own it any more. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Good hunting. LB
[ April 10, 2007, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 10, 2007 02:07 PM
George Ackley:Do you think A Coyote that just got shot can put together in his head that a hunter just shot him with a projectile?
No... First off how would a coyote even know what a projectile was? Let alone know that it got hit by one.It feels the pain and flees the area(source of the pain)Just like i've seen my dogs do when they come across an electric fence,they yipe and run from it.Do they know what an electric fence is? No..Just a conditioned response.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted April 10, 2007 04:43 PM
quote:
Why do some coyotes spray urine in a blind panic as they make their mad dash for safety after being missed by a gunshot? There was no pain and I doubt that the fear was as specific as fear of death or fear of injury. Probably they have associated that boom as a major threat from past observations, experiences and behavioral transfers from associate coyotes.
Why would there have to be any past observation/experience for the golden spray to happen. Take for instance this example, I hide my ugly mug behind a door and wait for my 4 year old neice to happen by, she hasn't peed for a few hours, and when she happens by, I jump out and yell "BOOO", she's likey to pee here pants because of something very unexpected happening and her body reacts by tensing muscles that she hadn't planned on tensing at that moment! I think the same could happen with a coyote in the respect that she has a full blader and something very unexpected happens and scares the pee right out of her as she running from the spot of the unexpected occurance!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 10, 2007 07:10 PM
Like you said TRnCO, they got the pee scared out of them or they where very excited. When i go to feed one of my dogs he gets so excited he pee's all over himself and the ground...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted April 11, 2007 01:54 PM
Rich H, the speculation I speak of is out on the hunt while working a coyote.That is where I see some guys try to talk them to death.Speculate about what the coyote might do until it all goes in circles.I would rather plan my attack and attack my plan.I like less talk and more action.Probably why I hunt alone.Much queiter.
I agree these boards are about speculation which is a good place for the value it offers and I not only learn but am entertained as well.thanks
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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