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Author
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Topic: Will wolves push coyotes out?
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Rezgulator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1548
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posted August 05, 2007 04:46 PM
Wolves would seem like a thrilling animal to call in. If their numbers continue to grow, will they (or have) push(ed)out coyotes?
From what some articles are saying, they are causing problems to the numbers of deer and elk near the Yellowstone park and surrounding areas. Not to mention the posssible effects on cattle and/or sheep.
Would or have any of the members been able to hunt wolves in the States?
I would think a 22-250 would handle a wolf pretty easily or should you jump to a 243? Would one dare go with a Ruger 204?
Posts: 22 | From: San Diego (Navajo&Hupa areas) | Registered: Aug 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted August 05, 2007 04:58 PM
Don't know about other places but the wolves and coyotes terr. seems to over lap in Northern mn. plenty of food to go around for both.
Them preying on deer and elk i don't have a problem with there are plenty to go around for them and the hunters.
The wolves are delisted here but as far as i know they have not est. a season on them as of yet..
I would say a 22-250 and up would work nicely for wolves.. 204 NO!
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted August 06, 2007 03:51 AM
From what I gather, they are definitely pushing them out in Wyoming. Pushing them out in big long hairy turds! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ August 06, 2007, 03:51 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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albert
Knows what it's all about
Member # 98
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posted August 06, 2007 05:22 AM
Yes wolves and coyotes can live together. But guess who pays the bill?
Wolves have a significant impact on coyote populations. I feel that it does alter a coyotes behavior.
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for what it's worth, eh!
Posts: 195 | From: Parkland, saskatchewan, canada | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted August 06, 2007 05:48 AM
I suspect in most areas that hold wolves, you’d probably have a better chance of calling in a black bear or a grizzly bear than a wolf. If I was going wolf calling, I definitely use a bigger gun than a 22-250. A couple of other caribou hunters and I received a very stern warning about trying to call wolves while on the Mulchatna River. The outfitter basically said “you’re on your own”.
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
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posted August 06, 2007 06:01 AM
I talked to a guy in Alaska a couple of times by E-mails and he told me that while calling coyotes in Alaska, everything will be going good until the Wolves get fired up and Howl. He said the coyotes will shut up quick and not been seen.
He said he had one responding once until it heard a wolf and then put on the after burners outta there.
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 06, 2007 06:36 AM
quote:
From what I gather, they are definitely pushing them out in Wyoming. Pushing them out in big long hairy turds!
Thats funny right there.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 06:49 AM
Wolves were re-introduced to the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone in 1994. They reduced the coyote population by 67% in two years.
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Dusty Hunter
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Member # 1031
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posted August 06, 2007 07:19 AM
About six months ago, I attended a session in Phoenix by an educated wildlife person who relayed a story of when he was in Montana or Wyoming. They were monitoring animal behavior.They placed a carcass in a wide field and watched from a distance as a mountain lion fed on the carcass. A group of coyotes and a group of wolves moved into the area from two different directions, then actually merged together running in for a short distance until the coyotes realized the other group was wolves. At that time, the coyotes parted company and left the area.
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 06, 2007 07:29 AM
Several winters ago while cat hunting on the upper Selway River in Idaho we saw plenty of wolf tracks and several kills. I asked a guy who had worked in the area for many years how the increasing wolf population affected the coyote population in that area. He said the local coyote population had been drastically reduced.
In two weeks of hunting I only noticed one set of coyote tracks and that was on the way out in a high elevation area where almost no other animals were wintering.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted August 06, 2007 07:59 AM
You can use the wolf ,coyote scenario and replay it in the coyote, red fox scenario and see the similarities.
Competion in the same areas of similar predators and the biggest wins!
The reaction of a coyote to a wolf howl ,if accurate, would lead one to believe that calling coyotes ,in wolf-coyote country, that howling may not be such a good deal.
Anyone have any experience calling in wolf-coyote country?
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 06, 2007 08:40 AM
Randy, I was thinkin that same thing.
I live on the very northern edge of the Ozark Mountains. Actually, across the road to the south of me the mountains start and if you look out of my yard to the north, you would swear it was Kansas. We have foxes and coyotes. But if you find a area that has alot of fox, particularly reds, you wont call as many coyotes. Find the coyotes, and dont call many fox.
Go north of my house and there are lots of big beautiful coyotes, but I have only called one fox. Good comparison.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 06, 2007 09:27 AM
It's the same in my areas, coyotes and gray fox. The only way grays can coexist is if they have trees or large boulders they can jump up on to escape the coyotes. Otherwise, it's coyote country or cat and fox country, for the most part.
Albert has a mix of wolves and coyotes, in some places.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 12:11 PM
When you are at the top of the food chain in a given area you can push around whomever you choose. But you are not always successful...... wolf vs. coyotes
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted August 06, 2007 02:40 PM
Smithers, those were a couple super agressive coyotes. Wish I had more like those two, my dogs would enjoy the work!
I think the quote," they may have one the battle but not the war", may apply here!
Leonard and Andy, sounds like your fox are like ours, the only place they get are what the coyotes don't want!!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted August 06, 2007 02:59 PM
Our red fox population mostly exists right next to town or in town.
So, in your guys opinion, do the coyotes catch the adult reds and kill them? Or do they mostly kill pups? I have a hard time believing a coyote could catch an adult red due to his turning abiltiy.Maybe if the coyote kept up a lenghty pursuit? Reds don't have much heel.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 06, 2007 03:43 PM
I dont know. Even greys. And they can climb. In the areas around here with heavy coyote populations, other than a few bobcats, they are top of the foodchain, or so it seems. Thats something else I dont understand. Used to, I never saw bobcats or sign in the prairie ground north of here, they were in the same areas as foxes. Lately there have been more and more of them out there. I dont know if the coyotes dont bother them or cant catch them or what?
Foxes are more in the big hardwoods in the hills or along bluffy river areas.
Again, this is just what I have observed and Im sure no expert. Im a novice.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted August 06, 2007 04:32 PM
Smithers, those were a couple super agressive coyotes. Wish I had more like those two, my dogs would enjoy the work!
I think the quote," they may have one the battle but not the war", may apply here!
Absolutely! The coyotes had pups and that was worth the risk, for them. A single coyote would more than likely have run for greener pastures or been torn to shreds.
From what I have read and seen (on video) the wolf is an animal to be reckoned with when packed up or doubled. Once they are alone I think the gangbanger mentality gives way to common sense. They can handle themselves alone, no doubt, but a group gives them a little more gumption.
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted August 06, 2007 04:39 PM
Randy, first off that sling deal works great! Thanks again, I like the smaller one better.
Ok I've seen it twice on the fly red vs. coyote. It played out almost the same way as a coyote and a jackrabbit.
Both were two coyotes on one fox on snow, one coyote would bust out right on the foxes tail while the other flanked him. As the coyote on the tail would close up to right on the foxes tail the fox would cut. Thats when the second would either grab him or make him cut again to the other coyote. It didn't take more than 300 yards in both cases once they got on the fox.
The fox were severly outmatched! No battle at all just a quick death. Ole red brought a knife to a gun fight!
One pair started devouring the red and the other pair just killed it and left it. Both scenarios were myself watching a red moving through the country, mousing etc. waiting for him to curl up and wandering right into coyotes just happening to cross paths with them.
I've had numerous reds destroyed in traps by coyotes. You might have a foot left in the trap.
I'll bet the greys don't wonder as much in the open. Not familar with them thou.
Cats will hold their own with coyotes and can always find a tree if need be.
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 06, 2007 05:39 PM
That is an aggressive pair of coyotes in that clip. My male would like that. He would have worked on the whole family. Hes not much on that tollin stuff. Too aggressive. He likes it if they will square off.
quote:
I'll bet the greys don't wonder as much in the open.
I dont know about other places, but I know the ones I have called around here have either been in the big hardwoods or on the edges.
[ August 06, 2007, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted August 06, 2007 06:17 PM
Roy McBride said that he noticed that coyotes generally responded to wolf howls by barking and howling themselves..but the opposite was true when the coyotes howled first.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
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KevinKKaller
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Member # 559
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posted August 06, 2007 08:31 PM
The coyotes stay real low wial the wolfs are around this neck of the woods.
The old timers say thear yoused to be a lot more coyotes hear.
I called in a small band of wolfs last winter with coyote howls Just trying to locate some dogs and I did some big dogs.
2 weeks or so ago in our local paper a cop took photos of 2 wolfs in town crosing threw the local Chevron station.
A short time ago the police cheffs sons 4 H steer was killed in thear pin behind his house at the edge of town.
One of the wolf packs had a deen last year but abandend it this year.
The local rancher that has killed 2 wolfs sease the 243 works fine He has lost 2 or 3 calfs so far this year and has permits to shoot
I havent herd of any kills this year yet but the cattle will be up hear in the high country till fall.
Good Hunting Kevin
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Maker of K-Kalls
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted August 07, 2007 08:53 AM
Ok, here's an interesting question for you guys who have seen wolf re-introduction close by...
There's some buzz about re-introducing Wolves into Olympic National Park (my back yard). The coyotes here are almost exclusively living in the valleys and foothills with the retired Kalifornians. They've urbanized. Almost totally. Very crafty, totally adapted, and almost impossible to hunt, due to residential neighborhoods and anti-hunting mini farm owners. The point being, they don't live in the park for the most part, as the park is all mountainous. Steep and deep, severe weather, heavy snow, very harsh environment half the year.
Now, if they re-introduce the wolves, what do you think the chances are that they'll stay in the mountains living the hard life and compete with the cougars for deer and elk? What are the chances that they'll urbanize like the Coyotes, and move into the foothills and lowlands, live the easy life, and feed on pets, livestock, coyotes, and trash?
The Fish and Wildlife bios are having a public meeting about re-introduction in ONP in a couple weeks in my town. I need some input, I'm planning to go if I can get a babysitter!
What do you think?
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted August 07, 2007 09:15 AM
Steve, I am surprised I missed word that this is being considered. I can't even fathom that they would be considering doing this so close to a major population center. With how hard the elk are hunted by the 1ndian tribes on the peninsula it would be a disaster. I am positive thay would work their way down the coast and eventually would have a pretty good size population around the St. Helens area where elk numbers are way to heavy for the habitat. Their would be a ridiculous amount of human encounters with the wolves, and probably a couple of attacks that would make some headlines around the country. Western Washington is just too heavily populated to consider this. The slow spread of the wolves from Idaho will eventually reach the Cascades anyway, but this will take a long while.
[ August 07, 2007, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: tlbradford ]
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted August 07, 2007 12:26 PM
They're saying they'll let them migrate over into your area from Montana/Idaho and Canada, but they're talking about planting them in ONP. Gonna have a public meeting on it on Aug 21. Likely they'll start on the coast where there's fewer people to conflict with. I can't imagine they'll stay up high when the pickings will be so easy in the valley.
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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