The New Huntmastersbbs!: Hard chargers

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 09:42 AM:

What's your solution?

Shoot them on the run, or what method do you use to try and stop them....and how often does it work?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 25, 2010, 10:57 AM:

Bark and they will stop. They always do.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 25, 2010, 11:13 AM:

[Razz]

[ March 28, 2010, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 11:56 AM:

They don't always stop, Andy. For lip squeaks, barks or whoops, no dice.

So, if you have to shoot on the run, while incoming? Or after you find out you can't stop them, they wise up and start turning a simple incoming shot into more of a challenge while they get another gear, and aren't straight lining any more?

For everybody but Comfortable Tim, that is....a valuable asset on any man's flank!

You know, the situation where it seems all the coyotes are acting and behaving the same, at least for a segment of time.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 25, 2010, 12:30 PM:

Thanks Leonard..

[ March 28, 2010, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 12:37 PM:

Yes, as a matter of fact. More than a few.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 25, 2010, 01:09 PM:

Of course they always stop. They have to. I read it on PM!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 01:34 PM:

You may have read it on PM, but these coyotes didn't. Who said so, anyway? Barry? He seems to be the "go to" guy for solid, no bs info? I even learned to make a standing stand because of him, although it wasn't successful, but that's not his fault. He's definitely my hero, replacing Higgy in that capacity, for the most part.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 25, 2010, 01:34 PM:

[Razz]

[ March 28, 2010, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 01:35 PM:

Yes

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 25, 2010, 01:36 PM:

[Razz]

[ March 28, 2010, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 01:51 PM:

....he must have been refering to mule deer?

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 25, 2010, 02:34 PM:

What yardages are you guys talking about??? Open ground or tight cover????

When I have a hard charger, I put the shotgun bead on it's nose & when it's out about 30 yards, close my eyes and yank the trigger. [Big Grin]

Here's a thought; Unless you NEED to kill a coyote, (ADC comes to mind) why take the easy shot?? If you only practice what you're good at...............you'll never get any good-er. Why not wait for a shot with a little challenge to it???? If you miss; so what?? Learn from it. If you make the tough shot; walk back to the truck grunting "I am the greatest!!!" [Cool]

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on February 25, 2010, 02:37 PM:

For me I'll take what I can get. I try to know the areas they may get to where they will no longer offer a shot, because of the terrain, or cover. If they start to get close to those areas and I have yelped, barked, hollered and they are still coming, I will take a shot then.

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 25, 2010, 03:08 PM:

Ive had a lot of AZ coyotes come rippin through stands and not stop no matter what I tried. I call them flashers. LOL They just flash thru the stand.

Not so much around here. I think its a difference in terrain and pressure more than anything.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2010, 05:16 PM:

I forgot about koko. For purposes of this discusion, we are not considering shotgun solutions.

I am refering to relatively open ground where you can see an approach from (oh?) maybe 200 yards, or so.

Normally, somebody DOES mention not allowing them to get TOO close before an action is taken?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 25, 2010, 05:33 PM:

Hard chargers coming straight in, I just shoot. If they are coming at an angle or to the side I've tried woofing, yelling and even bawling like a calf. Sometimes they are quicker than me sometimes not.

I've been threatening to tote the shotty more but haven't had much oppurtunity this year.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 25, 2010, 06:16 PM:

It was coyotes like Leonard mentions that taught me how to shoot running coyotes. Most of those that wouldn't stop took place when I was using the old Johnny Stewart 512 that was sitting 20-50 yards cross-wind of me. They would run in, circle around the caller and run off again. Yep, it took me awhile to learn the proper lead and all, but they finally began to stop after the boom of my Mauser.

Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on February 25, 2010, 06:20 PM:

For some reason I don't get near as many hard chargers here like I did when I lived in AZ.
But I just try to get the best shot I can with the rifle before they run over me.But if I have the shot gun I will let them come.I dont mind killing them at my feet.

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 25, 2010, 08:51 PM:

Serious question, has anyone tried the estrus chirp for this or anything else for that matter?

Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on February 25, 2010, 08:55 PM:

What does sound like anyway?
"Bowsy wowzy woofy woof woof" ???

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 26, 2010, 12:35 AM:

Leonard,

That many hard chargers,you must be either hunting Mexico or Northern Nevada. [Wink]

lol

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 02:14 AM:

Weren't NV, Chad.

Hey, this isn't a trick question, ya bunch of pusses! Seriously, how far do you get them run before you start doing something about it? Do you count on them checking up? But, what if they don't?

I think I killed one within five feet of the caller and another within less than ten feet and the only one that checked up that first day, I ground sluiced her, which was the only stand I made with a shotgun, because of the situation.

Now, stop with the bs and let's have some input.

Good hunting. LB

Clue #1: the woof was not working. What's up with that?

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 26, 2010, 06:47 AM:

OK Lb, I'll bite. What can you do? I definately think it is a bigger problem while useing electronics. Hope you can pick them up sooner and mute the call...that has helped some. As far as the ones that break from the brush from inside 200 yrds, who knows? I was in the same situation about a month ago, they just couldnt be shut down. A woof, bleat or bark was either ignored or just changed the direction of the sprint. I don't like running shots, they are lower percentage, no matter what anyone says. But, you have to try...huh? I hate shot gunning coyotes, but its probably the better choice in this situation. So, maybe thats the answer, 'Ground Sleuce'(sp) them!!!

Maintain

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 26, 2010, 07:00 AM:

Mist Em! I know evryone likes to think of themselves as a rifleman but sometimes a shot gun is a better choice. If within range I would rather get the job done than half done and wacth them run off And not be able to recover them.
Hell Ive missed with a shot gun [Big Grin]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 26, 2010, 07:43 AM:

Yeah, I agree for persistent hard chargers I would say a scattergun would be the best tool for the job.

Good Hunting Chad

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2010, 08:01 AM:

LB,
It is apparent that you have not been using enough AJ to saturate the perimeter of your calling location.
When used properly, coyoteeeees will stop turn sideways and lick the sticky goodness from their paws.

Or you can get a machine gun and a small dog.

Posted by Okanagan (Member # 870) on February 26, 2010, 08:47 AM:

Yes, AJ on the perimeter is the solution. Use the mister as well. Be sure to spray some on your hands and feet, especially the bottoms of your boots before you get in your truck, etc.

[ February 26, 2010, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]

Posted by predatorhunter (Member # 3559) on February 26, 2010, 09:11 AM:

Around here it's all small fields surrounded by thick woods so the longest distance you can see one here is around 200yds. and usually more like 150yds. If one charges in and don't stop when I lip squeek I take the shot. Here they either lope in and stop or charge in. For the ones that come in lopeing in I'll let them get as close as they will.The trouble with hard chargers here is if you don't shoot him quick, he'll either run almost over you or catch your scent and get to the woods before you can get on him; that's why I'll only squeek once. I use the estrus chirp pretty often during the mating season here with good results in the woods Tom64 but, haven't had much luck in open areas.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 10:16 AM:

quote:
LB,
It is apparent that you have not been using enough AJ to saturate the perimeter of your calling location.
When used properly, coyoteeeees will stop turn sideways and lick the sticky goodness from their paws.

Or you can get a machine gun and a small dog.

Thank you for being serious, Kelly, and I'm glad you put your finger on the problem for me! I would normally dribble Aunt Jemima's to and from the speaker placement location, but that only worked in the afternoon. I kept the bottle in my shorts, to warm it up, as you do, but it fell down my leg all the time. Don't think he rest of us didn't notice, like you were er, "packing", at the campout a couple months ago? Must have a special holster in there, eh, kinda like the underwear bomber? Whatever it takes, eh?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 26, 2010, 10:54 AM:

quote:
If within range I would rather get the job done than half done and wacth them run off And not be able to recover them.

Thats kinda the reason I dislike shotguns. There effective range is always stretched, resulting in crippled run offs. Hell, even inside the effective range(100 yrds according to PM standards) a less than bangflop hit is common, again resulting in a run off.

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2010, 11:36 AM:

Ok a serious post.
Most coyotes here close to home can be handled like G suggested. Mute the call when you see them and give em just enough to get them where you want them.

When hunting NM (out west for me) I think a true half the coyotes could be killed with a shotgun. I had rather use a rifle, so if they are coming straight in, I let them come and shoot them with the rifle. If they are at an angle I do the best I can to get them stopped by barking or killed before they get to the call or downwind.

I do plan on loading a challenge howl as one of my presets and experiment with that. That might freeze them or make them hit another gear depending on the coyote.
Got to try it, but it is a thought.

PS LB at the campout, that wernt no AJ in my draws….too many ants still out in October.

Stay after them
Kelly

Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on February 26, 2010, 11:40 AM:

I usually shoot when they give me a decent shot. I know, not too scientific.

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2010, 11:48 AM:

another thought is the ones I call drive bys. Seems to happen on at least one stand when hunting out west. Doesn't seem to happen around here.
These are coyotes that come loping/running by at around 50 yards out. They act like they want to take a look, but aren't hard charging the call.
These are the ones that piss me off.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 12:11 PM:

DANG! Then, what was it? Not that I give a shit, one way or the other.....

Anyway, back to serious. I should mention, females, females, females! Most appeared unbred, and I might conclude that alpha's and most other males were preoccupied.

Never seen such a lopsided percentage before? (edit) Of course, I seldom hunt this late in the season?

Had one animal look at me in response to a bark, but never slowed down, and kept running right at the caller. This is unusual, I think?

What the hell do I have to do; maybe we were transported to Pandora in 3D digital?

Good hunting. LB

[ February 26, 2010, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 26, 2010, 12:12 PM:

We usually say those ones "buzzed the tower".

===================================
Hey, this isn't a trick question, ya bunch of pusses! Seriously, how far do you get them run before you start doing something about it? Do you count on them checking up? But, what if they don't?
====================================

Well... One thing, for sure, is I do not count on them checking up. By definition, a "hard charger" is a coyote I don't expect to stop. I've already muted the call and he hasn't slowed down.

Running straight at me, I just let them come until the rifle goes off. Situations like that, the shot really is almost subconscious. Just track them in the scope and let the shot happen. That might be anywhere from 30 yards to maybe 120 yards out or so. I don't worry about the exact distance. Coyotes running straight at me are usually dead coyotes.

Coming at an angle, I bark or yell as soon as it occurs to me that things are about to go haywire. It's not going to stop a hard charger, but it sometimes gets them to adjust their direction a bit to come more straight at me.

If they keep coming at an angle, again, I just track them in the scope and hope to see a reason to complete the trigger press. Often as not though, on a hard charger coming at an angle, I'm NOT going to see a sight picture I like. So one of two things happens, I either take an ill advised shot, which is probably a miss, or I let them come all the way and start leaving. And start getting myself ready for a long "last look" shot, if it happens. Which, is a higher percentage play, for me, my typical terrain. Often I'm able to get prone and it's not terribly uncommon for even a hard charger that hasn't been shot at, to stop 300, 400 yards out and take one last look. I "usually" make those shots. Takes patiences and discipline though and some days I just don't have much of that.

- DAA

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 12:22 PM:

Well, you have the idea, Dave. The problem was (usually) the caller was not lined up with me and 40/50 yards out, on average; not coming to me; angles, angles, angles! But your attitude is just like mine. This terrain was not smooth so the tracking wasn't easy, on the way out. The only advantage was that I usually had an elevated position.

Them suckers wouldn't stop, for shit! What is your most effective solution for stopping a hard charger? Anybody? You don't want to depend on trick shots all day long.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 26, 2010, 12:38 PM:

Lariat rope?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 01:21 PM:

If somebody suggested a machinegun, I'd deserve it......<sigh>

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 26, 2010, 01:33 PM:

If KOKO could only post a picture....

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 26, 2010, 01:48 PM:

If you used CD Quality sounds on your e-caller they'll stop....they always do, promise. If you use 24bit sounds, they'll stop broadside everytime.

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 26, 2010, 02:02 PM:

Same here...if theyre coming, let em come, shoot when theyre close, no biggie? I think to many people panic when trying to stop em instead of just pulling the trigger.

Good time to talk about learning to shoot with both eyes open and "shotgunning" a rifle, as in learning to shoot a rifle close up and on running shots close up?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2010, 02:21 PM:

[Razz]

[ March 28, 2010, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 26, 2010, 02:30 PM:

Kelly;
I'm working on it.................... [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 02:40 PM:

I don't like the sound of this? What are youse guys planning? [Smile]

As usual TimBo, not much help, but thanks anyway! [Smile]

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 26, 2010, 02:57 PM:

This is way simpler than you guys are making it out to be. If you are sitting on a stand then just stand up real fast, and if you are already standing on the stand then just sit down real fast. Either is guaranteed to either stop the coyote or change its direction. [Big Grin]

But seriously, I just shoot them. A coyote, even at a slight angle coming in isn't that tough of target inside 80 yards or so. Never lead off of them and you will usually at least knock them down. It's not a job for a 17, but I'm not thinking you'd be caught in the hills with one of them anyway LB.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 26, 2010, 03:27 PM:

Paul;
Y'all got mail, son. [Big Grin]

Leonard;
We're being good. Honest 1njun. We're just exchanging coyote backstrap recipes. Honest. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 05:28 PM:

No Cal. I didn't say it baffled me and they all got away. I'm just asking for input from you guys that have a deserved reputation as experience serious coyote hunters. I thought we might get a conversation going that might prove useful for guys like Tim. I agree that it is generally better to dump them while coming in, if possible.

Maybe I'm making it out to be harder than it is, but this was damned near every one for four days, some weren't pretty. (see example)

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 26, 2010, 06:41 PM:

Gee! Thanks Leonard...

You should maybe back off on the powder a bit. [Razz]

Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on February 26, 2010, 07:22 PM:

Wow Leonard. You're looking pretty flaco - looking good man!

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 26, 2010, 07:29 PM:

For me, early on, WOOF works pretty well. As the season gets along, WOOF don't do crap. In fact, for the main part of the middle of the season, WOOF ain't necessary as the first look you get at a coyote around here is a set of ears doing the Kilroy thing from a distance as the coyote(s) recon prior to the approach. In the late season, you can try to WOOF them, or anything else, but in most cases, we simply get on them then disclose our location by WOOFING loudly. Sometimes they stop. Sometimes they don't. Most times, they make a rapid transition from "Free food! Free food!" to "Oh shit! Oh shit!" The former is characterized by running in with their heads up, bellies off the ground offering a better target, because the latter is often not unlike a furry little torpedo going mach 4 with their legs straight out to the sides like the oars on a boat eating up turf, getting the F outta there, aka, tough target. Thus, we just try to shoot on the approach rather than waiting for them to figure chit out because once you hit "oh shit!", things go to hell.

Couple weeks ago, Kevin and I were sitting with our backs to a berm covered in sunflower stalks. A coyote backdoored us on Kevin's side coming right through the farmer's yard to get to us. He swung by at our 3 and pegged our silhouettes at which time he assumed a streamlined form with his pecker dragging in the dirt and that aforementioned boat oars leg thingy. Kevin yells "WOOF", which of course, did nothing. He shot, I shot, he shot, I shot, all at a coyote still inside the forty yard mark running from left to right. Carnival duck shoot on acid and a very low percentage shot. I finally just racked a third shell and repositioned my sticks to well ahead of where he was knowing he was headed for a low water crossing in the trees in front of us and waited for him to intersect my line of sight at about 120 yards, me yelling "No you don't you sonofabitch" and Kevin yelling "NOOOOoooooooo....",BANG-BANG,WHOP-WHOP!, Cartwheels. Doubletapped him. I don't care what you say - that there was funny. At least, we both laughed.

[ February 26, 2010, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 26, 2010, 08:43 PM:

Hmm? Loco, where I come from Flaco means skinny or bony and that's not me. What you smokin'? [Smile]

Lance, we had a couple of those too, but instantaneous and/or simultaneous. Always cool.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 27, 2010, 08:47 AM:

Cal said:

quote:
But seriously, I just shoot them. A coyote, even at a slight angle coming in isn't that tough of target inside 80 yards or so.

That used to be my take on it too. For a lot of years, I just didn't understand what all the fuss was about. To me, a running coyote, inside a hundred yards, was a pretty big, slow, easy target. Just shoot 'em!

That was then though. This is now... Sad, sorry fact is, I can't shoot like I used to. Those running coyotes that used to seem so easy, are starting to seem pretty hard. I'm finally starting to understand what everybody was talking about...

Stuff like deteriorating eye sight and reflexes play a part, I'm sure. But the real reason, is simply a lack of trigger time. Where as I used to take upwards of 10,000 shots a year at live varmints, I don't think I've taken more than a few hundred a year for awhile now.

Proof being in the pudding, it really has taken a toll on my skill.

- DAA

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on February 27, 2010, 09:00 AM:

LB, that coyote have an alien inside??

Most of the hard chargers females on your hunt, using distress or vocalizations?

Female numbers taken this time of year is usually higher for the simple fact that most males left are hooked up or trying to get hooked up. Then factor in that most of the young males are taken early in the season as they tend to be the most agressive to the call and the male to female ratio tilts toward momma.

The young females seem to be more agressive to the call, IMO, because they have not had the crap beat out of them like the young males have this time of year. Single males this time of year are pretty careful moving across country that has older breeding coyotes in it. Coming to the top of hills and looking both ways behind etc. Howl at those and they tend to freak out. Had one sneak in on me and I did not see him at 200 yards and hit a howl on the caller while seeing him and he about shit his pants, froze, layed down his ears, tail went down. He was going to leave real quick and quiet.

I usually see more agressive responces in older mated pairs or groups with older coyotes in them using vocalizations in this timeframe. The ones that maybe slow down to a fast walk quatering to get the wind and will take any terrain they can find to hit the wind once they figure out something isn't right. Usually where I sit away from the caller. A coyote distress at that point will usually stop them for an instant but you better be quick. I am working in wide open country and any shot with 200 yards is what I am looking for. You guys huntin in the thick stuff have a whole different ball game. I often watch approaches from over a mile etc.

I have tried the woof and had it work, cussed a blue streak, yelled coyote, howled with my voice, lip squeaked, etc. Some of those side walkin lookin at ya older coyotes just have to be shot on the move or you won't get a shot.

I had a group of three with another single shadowing on the river ice last nite, the older male would charge to the call then realize when he left contact of the female the third coyote would try and breed her. He would run back nip him off and then start the same routine again and again until they finally made it to me. Must have come close to a mile. Stopping and sniffing to the bitter end.

Then sometimes it's all just a trainwreck and you just enjoy the crash!!!!

Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on February 27, 2010, 09:00 AM:

Man I hate the hard chargers that won't stop for nothing. Really pisses me off when I miss or worse yet,to nick one and have it run off. Unless it's coming in straight on flat ground, I will stay motionless and let it run up to me, allowing it to flare off. Sitting on an elevated stand gives me the advantage of being able to track them till it stops, which usually is around the 300 yard mark. All the while they are running away, I'll bark which tends to bring them to a stop. As their run turns into a lope, that's your clue he's about to stop. Have your rifle shouldered and in the sticks before it pauses, because it's not going to stand there very long. One of the reasons they'll charge your position when using hand calls, is calling too much.They've easily got you pinned by too much sound and/or they have seen your movement when blowing on the call and anticipate that movement for it's meal. Use a longer interval between series. Make them search for you. Using a remote caller puts the odds in your favor for this reason. A good reason to have a laser for a rifle. You don't have the time to judge how many "football fields" away he is when it finally comes to a stop. He's going to look like a long ways out there,when it's actually only 300 or so.....

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2010, 09:47 AM:

That's a good question, Randy. We were using howl vocals for a while, but noticed that it seemed to have a negative effect, especially after taking note of the majority of females, bordering on exclusively females, and none of them looked like alphas except one that came in with two others, in front, and died. She was in estrus. The boys got away despite vigorous effort on our part. That was the only multiple in four days of calling. And, it was the first stand? Go figure?

Yeah, Gary. My 223 Ackley was criticized by my partner when I lost a cripple. I tend to agree, but previous performance had been dead coyotes without exception. (if I do my part... yuck yuck) I thought he/she was centered on the chest and facing the call at a 15-20 degree angle to me, but the bullet destroyed the off shoulder and that sucker ran pretty good on three legs. Probably missed lethal by an inch?

This was a CS24 and one of the sounds we were using had variable volume built into the sound. For the most part, I really didn't like that feature, but it accomplished what you suggest, other than the fact that these coyotes were basically uncalled and had the sound pinpointed early on.

I very much like the CS24, I have hunted with Vic Carlson who also uses one and I am very impressed. The fact that it looks like the one Scott Huber uses, and the one that Albert Pilling uses, which are WT units, well, that's a curious coincidence, ain't it?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 27, 2010, 10:40 AM:

No coincidence about it LB.

I believe the CS24 was born on the TPP in the heat of battle.

Posted by predatorhunter (Member # 3559) on February 27, 2010, 11:11 AM:

If they all looked like the one you were holding, the reason they were charging was because they were starving to death. Our foxes are bigger than that! You just need to wave the AJ bottle at them to get them to stop.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2010, 12:05 PM:

If you guys take another look at that last pic, you will notice that the terrain didn't lend itself to straight line approaches. Irregular ground and bushes everywhere, they couldn't charge in (like might be more common) in the one above that Randy posted. These were a little harder to get on and stay on, we missed a few. If not for the habit of getting a little elevation whenever possible, we might have let a few more get away.

To tell you the truth, (ahem) we did a pretty good job of it. I'm just whining because every one was a challenge of some sort. There were no "gimmies". I shot when I shouldn't have, and didn't when I should have, a few times, (you know that tune), but all in all, I'm not ashamed of our efforts, by any means. My partner made some impressive shots and I don't think I let him down too much. Except, I was really hurting and I know I slowed him down a little bit. I have a bad knee and back pain and a real painful hip flare up, but other than that, even the bone spurs on my heels were painful. Didn't help that I was short of medication. Cripes, sounds like I'm getting old, donut?

Still, a very enjoyable hunt.

Thanks AR!

(And he's camera shy! Who knew?)

Good hunting. LB

Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on February 27, 2010, 02:50 PM:

I hand call and have had lots run over me. I carry a shotgun though and it has saved my butt more than once. I have missed some though with my shotgun mostly I think from being over choked.
But sparky makes a good point about calling too much. I'm probably guilty of doing that as Im always pushing it hoping that coyote way out there is going to hear me.

I don't mind shooting running coyotes that are straight on but I have an aversion to shooting ones going left to right. Mostly because of lack confidence in my shooting ability.

Jeremy Gugelmeyer

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2010, 03:14 PM:

I think you are not alone, Jeremy.

Most right handers are a little more challenged on a running shot going from left to right. The further right he gets, the more difficult. I try to sit in such a way that limits the amount of twist required on those shots. Going the other way, I'm a lot more flexible. Just the physiology of the situation.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 27, 2010, 06:16 PM:

When yer skimin' the cream off those locked Texas gate properties, the chargers and those that stumble over you just have to be tolerated buddy. Just shoot em....there's more around the next locked pasture.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2010, 08:05 PM:

Ooh, snotty, snotty naughty boy!

Just for the curiosity factor, Vic. Actually, it was considered a favor.

However, I have been waiting for you to chime in, and it has taken far too long!

Seems to me that you see a lot of the same thing, they flare in, swap ends and line out while you put a bullet in 'em?

I'd like to know what, if anything, you do to stop hard chargers? Your advice is requested. Could you expand on "Just shoot em...." a little bit?

How's it going? If the time was right, I planned on stopping in, but I was passing through a little past midnight and I know it was a work night.

Maybe next time?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 28, 2010, 07:36 AM:

How'd ya know it was Texas? I rag on those locked gates as much as anybody, I have not exactly abandoned my principles. I just won a free hunt in a box of Cherrios. Who could resist?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 28, 2010, 07:39 AM:

The Texas give away, was the soil, that white alkali you see so much of down there.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 28, 2010, 08:13 AM:

That's it? That's all we get out of you? Alkai?

What I have noticed is that you let them come in but then shoot them while they are lining out. Is that intentional or accidental? Are you expecting them to stop? Do they ever stop, down there? I remember having to shoot one through a tree, at the "discarded stool" stand. He was stopped, but a lot of them aren't.

What percentage do you have to make running shots, and how many are stopped? You know, roughly, like when you whisper; "this is an 80% stand" which gets the juices flowing! You must have a number?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 28, 2010, 02:06 PM:

Hey LB, I'm headed for Texas on Wednesday to a little private ranch to do some hog huntin and coyote huntin for a few days. I postponed once due to weather, but I think its on for sure now. Its a small place but I think we may do OK. It goes by the name of King or something like that. The guy that runs the archery hunting and their biologist were up here hunting antelope last fall with Murphy Love and I got invited along on a return trip. Steve Dillon is going to meet us there to try to do a little coyote recording. I guess they basically have an un hunted population. Might be fun.

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 28, 2010, 02:13 PM:

Cal you lucky bastard! Coyotes and hogs on the King Ranch? Cant beat that.

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 28, 2010, 03:47 PM:

Hope y'all have fun, and that Steve gets some good recordings!

- DAA

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 28, 2010, 05:03 PM:

You have to remember Leonard; I had a guest along, so I never shoot at coyotes unless the guest gets handcuffed or misses and the coyote is "lining out". Interestingly, I do find it easier, at least for me and my feeble shooting, to hit a going away coyote, than one charging in hard. Coyotes coming in, have a habit of ducking,dipping thru brush, zig-zagging etc, but when they hit high gear to get out of Dodge, they most generally leave in a straight line, for me, it's almost like hitting a stationary target, I just aim for the root of the tailhead?
Like Dave mentioned, back when I too, was shooting thousands of rounds a year at everything imaginable, instead of a couple hundred now, I could pull off some pretty fair trick shots as you call them, nowdays, I have to be a bit more measured in my shooting attempts now, or at least if I expect to hit anything.
As for runners versus stoppers Leonard, man, if I had to toss out a guess, Id have to say maybe 3 or 4 out of every 10 never stop moving their feet,and usually I can tell they aren't, so it's no surprise, and Im ready to take a shot if Im going to, and not be hurried about it, as I would if I was expecting them to stop.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2010, 12:34 AM:

Well, you know. It's just a difficult adjustment from all those tame ones on the ***********

Thanks for the explain, Amigo. Does your email work, btw?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2010, 05:52 AM:

Take this for what it's worth / your mileage may vary;

One of my 'regular' stands is up on a hillside overlooking scattered mesquite. It's a rifle stand. The caller goes about 75 yards below me up in a joshua tree that gets misted every time. The idea is to make that tree a scent post when I'm not there.

Saturday last, I had a hard charger come in all of the way and stand up on it's hind legs trying to get to the caller. It circled the tree twice & was one confused puppy.

Now, THAT'S entertainment!!!!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on March 01, 2010, 08:04 AM:

Bark or lip squeak. If that doesn't work, I'm getting some practice at a running shot. Hard chargers is why I like to use a mouth call when hunting with someone else that I can trust to NOT shoot me. It helps get my blood to circulating. Having a someone shooting at me gets my blood going way too fast.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2010, 09:17 AM:

quote:
Having a someone shooting at me gets my blood going way too fast.

I can well imagine! Is this mostly from bank jobs or jealous husbands? If it's from your hunting companions, you need quit screening them at happy hour at the local pub.

Good hunting. elbe

edit: KOKO, you need to get your entertainment with an end zone dance after just one circle. Let's not lose sight of why we are here, dude!

[ March 01, 2010, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2010, 10:52 AM:

Leonard;
I like to stay in control & prolong the moment. Makes the afterglow that much better. [Big Grin]

There are two things that old men just look silly doing; jogging and end zone dancing. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on March 02, 2010, 05:54 AM:

My main calling partner, and I have taken out two newbies lately. Both are from back east and have never hunted coyotes. One was very muzzle conscious, and the other was not so good at it.

BTW: these two newbies work for the New Flyer coach company. The city of Phoenix is experiencing some cracking frame issues where the wheel chair ramp is cracking on a certain model New Flyer body. So they are out here fixing these busses and are paid by New Flyer.

This one guy was a nice enough guy, but I just don't want to be around him at all when he is handling a gun. He was walking ahead of me with a 12 ga pointing forward right at my partner. I told him to point it another direction. So what does he do, he throws the gun over his shoulder pointing the muzzle behind him straight towards ME. He just doesn't get it.

I never has happen to me, and I don't want to experience a shot at a coyote that is only a few feet from me by a partner. It has happened to some of the guys in my club, PVCI. PVCI promotes hand calling only. They don't condone the use of electronic calls. However, I want the coyote coming in to the ecaller 50 ft from me when I have a newbie with me. As we all know: You must know your partners location.

I've experienced one AD that came within a few feet of me. A friend of mine kept a loaded gun behind his seat. His daughter was inside the truck moving things around and it went off. I was just a few feet from the bullet's path. That was close enough.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 02, 2010, 09:25 AM:

That's scary, az. Some of these guys are untrainable, like a dog that holds its tail straight up in the air. Hard headed, don't get it and never will. Turns me off to hunting with newbes altogether. If you camo is new, I'm suspicious. That's what I liked about AR Shaw when I first met him at one of the campouts. His coveralls were warn out, that's gotta mean something? Me, on the other hand, I usually match the hatch. I usually have four sets of mix and match camo and not particularly well used either. Be cautious around me, I could be a barrel waiver. (hmm? that ain't right, is it?)

Good hunting. LB

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on March 02, 2010, 11:27 AM:

For a while I was convinced that the "they always stop" mantra was fairly true. I would try everything I could to get a going-away coyote to stop. Bark, howl, hurt pup, distress. After a while I decided that instead of acting like a jackass and hoping they would stop, I would spend all of that time settling in behind the scope and making a quality running shot when I was comfortable. This resulted in three scenarios. 1) I would take a running shot I felt comfortable with. 2) They would stop on there own and I would be ready to take a standing shot. and 3) I would not get a good shot so they either disappeared or came back into range if I called them back.

It seemed like I started killing more coyotes doing this than waiting for them to stop.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 02, 2010, 12:37 PM:

I can't argue with those sentiments!

Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on March 02, 2010, 01:22 PM:

As a kid growing up my dad would quite often take my brother and I out to the dez for a day of shooting jackrabbits. It was and still is one of my favorite ways to spend a day with a rifle. I usually carried a .223 or a hornet cause I could stuff more ammo in my pockets then I could carrying my 6mm. Most of our shots were jump shot jacks and almost always off hand...actually on days where there were tons of em around we'd start saying stuff like "they gotta be moving" or "if they are sitting still the shots gotta be at least a 100 yards". Using a shotgun was out of the question...that was like cheating. With enough practice you start getting pretty good at hitting moving ones...it also teaches you to pick up the critter real quick in the scope. Usually you throw the rifle up to a full sight picture and the crosshairs about on target.

Anyway, once I started really going out and calling coyotes it seemed I shot a lot of them moving. Probably 4 out of 10 or so. Actually a 75yd loping coyote almost seemed tough to miss after shooting jacks all the time cause the coyote seemed huge (although I did miss my share of chip shots). It wasn't until almost 20 years later that I got a computer and found all the hunting sites that I realized I was doing it wrong all these years...all I needed to do was "woof" or "bark" and they would stop. haha :)I know it works sometimes...but not always. I will say I always start laughing when I watch a show where they maybe call in a couple coyotes, or maybe miss one... and after the first shot (once the coyote is really motoring) everyone starts hooting and hollering at it trying to get it to stop.

For the past 3-4 years I've been using an e-caller and have noticed it definitely makes for some easier shots...although I still seem to take quite a few moving.

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on March 02, 2010, 05:33 PM:

Read the whole thread and still have no answer for you Leonard. Mine all ways stop, all ways. Except for the ones that keep moving and I haven't figured out how to stop them.

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