This is topic Question for you guys in forum Predator forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001247
Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on August 17, 2010, 07:39 PM:
There is a good handfull of guys out there that
are good hands when it comes to calling coyotes.
What is it that makes the good ones,good?
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 18, 2010, 05:08 AM:
"What is it that makes the good ones,good?"
----------------------------------
They have access to territory that holds a lot of coyotes. They are dedicated folks who work hard to learn the basics. After that, they spend a lot of time learning what works in their country. They spend more time calling then they do watching the boob tube.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 18, 2010, 05:58 AM:
Rich nailed it.
One of the best coyote hunters I have ever hunted with, had nothing fancy and hunted no different than I hunt.
He told me the reason he racks up the numbers is he hunts very remote places with huge populations of coyotes. He hunts a lot. And he is an above average shot. If a coyote gets within 250 yards, it dies or he is pissed.
I think there is a lot of truth in what he said.
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on August 18, 2010, 08:37 AM:
I agree with Andy--those that are 'good' hunt A LOT!
I think there are more guys that are good hands calling coyotes, they just don't blow their horns about it. We are led to believe that the only good hands calling coyotes are the ones that promote themselves or make DVD's.
I think Lance Homman is a pretty good hand, but almost goes out of the way to avoid the spotlight due to his humility. I don't want him to quit writing his column, however! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Lots of land access is also important.
In my opinion, it is a numbers game. The more stands you make, the more coyotes you are going to see, and hopefully kill. All bets are off, though, if you are a moron with your woodsmanship.
Calling where coyotes are, or have been, sounds simple, but is something that is often overlooked.
We scout and try to find activity where we call. We have called some places that just looked like it should have coyotes, but had zero luck. After consistently getting skunked, we started over with our reasoning of why we were there, re-examined the spots and found zero sign--no tracks, no scat, no activity.
Conversely, we have called and killed coyotes where the landowners said there were none, due to the fact they 'Haven't heard 'em'. The difference--tracks and scat.
These are just my opinions, of course, take it for what its worth!
[ August 18, 2010, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 18, 2010, 01:05 PM:
The truely great in ANY field have a passion for it that comes from deep down. They have a drive to succeed no matter how many times they have to fail. They are their own worst critic and are brutally honest with themselves. They know that the mind will always try to fail before the body does so they discipline the mind to make it strong. The sport doesn't matter; archery, baseball, coyote calling...........all the same. Once the basics are mastered it comes down to who wants it the most and who is willing to work the hardest to get there. Excuses don't cut it; only results. A lot of people don't like this kind of person.
Now; Can a weekend sport hunter be any good?? Certainly. He can even be damn good. But he can only rise to the level of his own personal drive. There's nothing wrong with being 'laid back' and enjoying modest success. The key word here is 'enjoying'.
Then there's the instant expert who wants to take the latest & greatest of every gizmo known behind locked gates to learn quite a bit about a small nitch of coyote hunting and proudly proclaim to all "THIS IS THE WAY!!!!" That might be so where he hunts, but maybe not so much so where I hunt. I'm not sure, but I think that it was one of this type of person that invented the 'Butt-Out' deer gutting tool.
Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on August 18, 2010, 04:03 PM:
Good replys.Having lots of coyotes is good, but I do see guys that are not what I would call a good hand at calling put up ok numbers just because where they hunt.They just have a ton of
coyotes.
What about the guy that can get it done pretty
good when things are tough?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 18, 2010, 05:01 PM:
I don't know? I used to have a pretty dedicated attitude, for many years. Driven, really. I don't know when that left me? But, in a nutshell, you have to have "the fever". All the prime locations follow the dedication. Of course, I am talking about hunting contests, and that's where I learned a lot about numbers. Everything is numbers, hunting time available, driving time taken into account, just plugging away with no rest, and you make your own luck.
Anymore, I really don't worry too much about the one that got away. But the things you learn become automatic so that you can pretty well fake it, when need be. And, that's another thing. You have to be good at killing what's out there. Some guys are satisfied with dumping one coyote and getting a lucky shot off at another one. It's part of the learning process and what makes you a little better than the next guy.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on August 18, 2010, 05:22 PM:
There is little doubt that you have to have a huntable number of coyotes to hunt and a place to do your thing. Past that, I believe that learning to make a good setup is the most important aspect of success. Being able to close the deal is also important stuff.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 18, 2010, 06:09 PM:
So which are you more impressed with, the guy that can hit a new area cold and put up numbers, or the guy that can set out to kill "a" coyote or particular pair of coyotes and get it done?
- DAA
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 18, 2010, 08:40 PM:
The guy who can target a problem animal or pair of problem animals and solve a depredation situation, by far, is the more impressive.
Much has been mentioned about numbers. High numbers are needed to learn the basics but after that, can be misleading. Kill 20 coyotes a year in west Texas and it's no big whoop. Kill 20 coyotes a year up in western Washington and you deserve to do some end zone dancing.
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 18, 2010, 09:21 PM:
Kill 200 coyotes in west TX and you have learned a hell of a lot, especially if hunting at night. Kill 20 coyotes in Washington, although maybe some big feat, you have learned practically nothing.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 18, 2010, 09:58 PM:
Randy,
Can you explain why you think there's less to be learned here?
Krusty 
P.S. I am actually inclined to agree, but I'm wondering if we're riding the same train of thought.
[ August 18, 2010, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on August 19, 2010, 04:00 AM:
I think R Shaw is saying to kill 20 coyotes a year anywhere doesn't teach a hunter much.
That having been said, kill 20 coyotes a year in New Jersey and you are a damn hero. That has never been done here, by the way.
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 19, 2010, 05:51 AM:
KK...What 49 said. The coyote is the teacher so I would rather learn from 200 different coyotes versus 20. And if most of the education comes from night hunting so much the better. Once a person understands what the eyes are saying, you can learn more about daylight hunting when you are hunting after dark.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 19, 2010, 05:53 AM:
To me I'm more impressed with calling cold than killing a particular pair of coyotes. Forgive me if I'm wrong but the ADC guys I know just kill until the killing stops. None of them can say let that coyote pass he ain't the problem coyote.
As for what makes one "good", numbers. Both animals to hear the call and stands made.
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on August 19, 2010, 06:04 AM:
Tom, I understand what you are saying about our ADC guys. But, I have more respect for the guys who can kill a trouble coyote/pair and end the problem. This to me requires much more knowledge and skill than the way it is taken care of around here. Which, as you know, usually involves aircraft and a scorched earth policy.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on August 19, 2010, 06:24 AM:
So which are you more impressed with, the guy that can hit a new area cold and put up numbers, or the guy that can set out to kill "a" coyote or particular pair of coyotes and get it done?
- DAA
I am equally impressed with both, because each scenario takes a person that has put in their time and has the dedication and ability to get it done.
But if I had to pick one, it would be the man that puts all the effort into killing a problem coyote.
Stay after them
Kelly
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 19, 2010, 06:27 AM:
I have heard several times Randy and Cal talk about a pair or single giving them fits. To me, as many coyotes as they have in their area, first to be able to recognize that it is a certain coyote or coyotes, locate, pattern and kill the offenders is one hell of a feat.
Not putting down the guys that kill big numbers in a high target area by any means.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 19, 2010, 07:46 AM:
I admire both, because they are both dedicated and skilled in the craft, one because he has to be, and one because he wants to be(but sometimes both). But I have to go with the guy chasing the problem animals. But either way really, I always believe you have to be driven as Leonard says, i.e. "you gotta have the love" to be a little more succesful than the average caller/hunter or whatever.
I also believe you have to have been around a ton a coyotes to be one of the higher level callers/hunters. 20 coyotes vs 200....the 20 is for sure a great feat in some places,and not to be scoffed at, but, well, I just personally believe you learn more from 200.Just my opinion.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 19, 2010, 08:05 AM:
Maybe it's because I cold call all the time and occasionally manage to stumble around in a good area and put quite a few in the back of the truck, despite being a garden variety recreational amateur with no real skill, but yeah, the guys that can target a particular pair or aim to clean out a particular drainage and get the job done impress me more.
- DAA
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on August 19, 2010, 09:13 AM:
IMO one is not better than the other,just different.Both are extremely impressive in my book.
Targeting a specific coyote or coyotes and dispatching it/them with minimum loss to the farmer/rancher is a talent thats for sure.
But so is the guy that consistently puts up big numbers year after year.Both take alot of hard work and a knowledge of how best to get the job done.
And who knows,a guy thats really good at targeting specific coyotes might not be very good at putting up huge numbers,and the guy that can kill a ton of coyotes may not be able to kill the "one" that has to be killed.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 19, 2010, 11:00 AM:
Ok, Heres my theory! All the really good guys wear matching camo. Meaning that their shirt matches the pants and cap. Most of the really greats wear a facemask (even when they are in town filling up with gas). Most of them have alot of stickers on their truck and gear, advertising everything from feminine personal products to Rocky boots. All that I have seen carry ARs slung in front in the low and ready position, in case they see a coyote while walking to the set from the truck. Its a long 35 yards and anything could happen! The really great ones also carry spare magazines in several pockets. There are so many things I can't think of right now, but I will add as think of more!
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 19, 2010, 12:01 PM:
Cal,LMAO!!!!
The boots are a dead giveaway.
Never think ADC calling and recreational calling are the same.
I tend to be a pretty happy go lucky guy when calling recreational and want to have fun. Give each other crap etc. It's a release to get away from the stress of stoppin an SOB from killin again and facing the producer. We have to answer and clean up any mistakes not drive away wavin. It's not going to happen otherwise. My reputation, career, etc. is on the line.
A good recreational caller obsorbs what he sees in the field and applies it accordingly. Knows his rifle and his ability to shoot. Understands coyote dynamics thru out the year. Has good hunting instincts. Numbers mean little to me as they can be swayed by resources, job, etc. You have to be out there to learn but some can learn much quicker than others. There's no black and white deal on this.
Cal did have one with his bipod on his rifle backwards!! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 19, 2010, 12:11 PM:
Randy,
We're sorta of on the same train of thought, but obviously (to me) riding in different cars.
Whereas success is productiive to one's learning curve, a lack of success is exponentially counterproductive.
Stand for stand, when coyotes do show up, I feel there's equality in learned "knowledge" regardless of location.
I don't learn any more knowledge from coyotes in the desert, I just see more of them, so I learn more in terms of volume.
But when none show up, at such a disproportionate rate, it can be detrimental to what has been learned. This can undermine one's confidence, and removes the reinforcement of theory/ideas.
So, to me, the guy that can learn to produce with regularity, in a place that's more difficult, stands out.
In that respect I believe that the coyotes here in the jungles of western Washington have taught me more, in terms of value.
But, at the same time, it "costs" me more to chase them.
Which is better, a handful of hundred dollar bills, that you have to give most of back... or a bucket of pennies that you get to keep?
I dunno. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Krusty
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 19, 2010, 01:25 PM:
OK, even though I promised to keep my lips sealed, I am about to give one of Randy Roede's hot secrets away. When he gets within 100 yards of his chosen stand, he simply turns around and walks in backwards. Why? Well hell, the coyotes see his tracks and think that he just left to have lunch or something. There ya go boys, the secret is out now.
Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on August 19, 2010, 01:37 PM:
This is a great thread! You guys are cracking me up!
Cal, you forgot the fuzzy little lapdog with whiskers that licks their backside when you let them out of the truck... Usually named, "Buster", "Doodles" or "Lucky.
RR, "Has good hunting instincts."
That for me pretty much says it all... if a person doesn't have good instincts he is just learning on the surface. To really learn and understand you need instincts and observation skills that go way beyond a book or even numbers. To be able to know what the dynamics of any given situation is by looking at it is truly amazing to me! I have more respect for the guy that can call the shot and get the job done when it counts than just numbers, but both take skill sets beyond what is seen in most hunters out there today.
That's what I like about this board... lots of bullshitting but the knowledge is here, too. I learn something new from you fellas almost everyday!
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 19, 2010, 02:24 PM:
Cal thats funny as fuck. Not to mention the really greats endzone dance when they do conncect and make up a totally differnt story on the way back to town so they dont have to tell their buddies they shot the sum bitch out the window.
Krusty, are we back on terms where you would hunt with me yet?
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 19, 2010, 05:14 PM:
I need to work on my endzone dance for sure.
Actually, I'm after one that I would do an endzone dance for. Going on 3 weeks of killing of lambs. Every night or two. Not eating much or none on most. One coyote. Have flown several times, and have traps galore set where I can in several directions. And have had one of our guys with night vision set on the sheep 3 nights. Have killed several in the general area that could have been the culprit, but weren't. Killing keeps right on.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 19, 2010, 05:43 PM:
I can't believe nobody has nailed this one yet.
What makes the good ones good? POST COUNT of course!
BTW: Cal, try running hotter fuel in that plane to cut down on prop-harmonics. Try Duke softcatch 1-1/2's, double staked with burkshires and sun rendered skunk piss down the hole. Make sure your night vision hunter is using scent-away and earth-scent-wafers. Remember that coyotes can smell better during waning and waxing gibbeous moons. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 19, 2010, 07:10 PM:
A "Jack the Ripper" coyote...Cal, tell us when you get em..very interested.
[ August 19, 2010, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 19, 2010, 07:41 PM:
You all have no idea of the stress level that can create.
Cal I'd go with the ole Billy White Shoes Johnson dance when it happens.
Good luck man.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 20, 2010, 12:46 AM:
I'm not going to venture a guess. Mainly because I wouldn't know where to begin, with a problem coyote. Never did it. Oh yeah, I did it once, within the city limits of San Dimas. Killed two right away. These were poodle killers, sneaking out of the canyon bottom and grabbing Fluffy just when she squatted. But, I'm cured.
Now, I have seen Randy's area and coyotes stand out because there are so few. Every time we cold called, blanked. But setting up where the land owner said he hears them, that worked almost 100% of the time, sometimes it took two stands. But, again, this country holds very few coyotes, compared to what I see other places.
So, I don't know? You have to respect the ability to kill specific coyotes. On the other hand, these guys like Randy and Scott do things I never expected, and Scott walks and walks and WALKS! I think he could get much closer, except the fear of the vehicle giving him away. That's another thing I can't figure out. I do not worry that the coyote may be in position where he can see my truck. Yes, it happens, and no big whoop, when it does.
But, here's the thing. Most of us can't make an informed opinion because we have done neither.
But, discounting 200 coyotes is not very smart, I assure all of you.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 20, 2010, 05:38 AM:
Hey don't think I am discounting the effort and ability to kill a troubled pair. I just think most guys like myself figure the ADC guys do a complete CSI investigation complete with DNA tests and pick the only 2 that are causing trouble.
The guys I know do exactly what Cal is doing in the example above, kill until the killing stops. I know that ain't as easy as it sounds and I respect the ability of these guys.
I just like to see a guy who can read a place and start killing called coyotes, maybe it's because it's more relevent to me than ADC work but I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from the ADC guys.
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 20, 2010, 06:56 AM:
"Scott walks and walks and WALKS!"
--------------------------------------
Yep, and he is a heck of a good tracker. Here awhile back he got a bit confused and started tracking himself. Followed those tracks right up is own butt I guess. Nobody has seen him in like forever ya know?
Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on August 20, 2010, 07:23 AM:
Cal, I wish you luck on getting that problem coyote. I know it can be tough.
Around Ky., we have another problem, not being able to hunt at night. They tend to get more and more nocturnal, and we can't hunt them. Seems the Dept. of Fish & Wildlife are afraid somebody will spotlight a deer or elk. A farmer can't even get special permission to have a coyote hunter hunt at night. I never could figure out why the department thinks a coyote hunter would want to poach a deer when it would be so easy to just shoot one just before dark.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on August 20, 2010, 12:47 PM:
My problem coyote took on a 168 grain Berger out of my Cloud Peak Gunworks 7mag this morning at 658 yards. Old dry bitch. Caught her trotting out of the sheep at daylight and followed her about a mile on foot. She finally slowed to where I thought I might have a chance to call her, but she wasn't going to play that game, so I just shot her. Some days you are luckier than others. The rancher got to watch the whole thing also.
Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on August 20, 2010, 01:34 PM:
That's great news, Cal. Great shot too.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 20, 2010, 04:13 PM:
Congratulations, Cal!
It's one thing to follow a coyote for a mile, (an accomplishment all by itself) but where in the hell would it be possible for the rancher to sit back with his popcorn and watch the whole drama unfold? No wonder you guys want volume that makes your ears bleed.
Good hunting. LB
edit: hell yes! great shot, Cal!
[ August 20, 2010, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 20, 2010, 07:23 PM:
Andy,
I'm not even going to bother to address the question any further than to say "I wouldn't make a call for anyone I wouldn't hunt with" and I still plan on replacing your call.
Leonard,
I wasn't discounting the 200 coyotes, I was "marking up" the 20.
Krusty
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 20, 2010, 08:04 PM:
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 20, 2010, 09:44 PM:
Cool ending Cal! Congrats.
Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 22, 2010, 08:01 AM:
Nice job Cal,hope that shuts it down!!
Guys to the west of here got some nasty killin goin on as we speak. Can't keep it stopped yet, same deal, beatin it up hard with everything.
LB, country looks like it should have way more coyotes than it does doesn't it??
You know why boots don't last very long on our feet. Had a pair of Danner Pronghorns and had the leather peelin off the toes in less than 30 days. Cabelas and I have had numerous boot deals. Always fun to watch the gal look at the boots, look at the date on the receipt, look back at the boots etc. Always stood behind them thou.
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0