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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 03, 2011, 05:00 PM:

So I've got two ranches that have hired a trapper. The guy doing the trapping has convinced the ranchers that anyone doing any calling will mess up his ability to catch the coyotes, so I don't get to call the properties.
SO, since I'm not a trapper, I really can't argue because for all I know, it's true. So my question is it, and why?

[ April 03, 2011, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 03, 2011, 07:30 PM:

Without knowing more of the trapper's concerns than "messing up his ability to catch the coyotes", his concerns might be that if the coyotes in the area are pressured by your calling efforts and presence, they might relocate their activities elsewhere. Any excessive human disturbance can alter coyote activity but as a trapper I wouldn't be too concerned about a caller calling a few times but that's just me.

If I was being hired to remove problem coyotes and had permission before you, I would be more concerned about you messing up my calling than my trapping unless you were putting enough pressure on them to where they moved.

If coyotes are in the area, they will usually hit the best trap locations whether someone is calling there or not.

If he is being paid by the coyote, any other coyote hunter or trapper's presence could be a concern.

~SH~

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 03, 2011, 07:51 PM:

I've done a bit of recreational trapping but am by no means an expert; I will readily defer to those here with more experiance and / or insight. Having said that.........

It sounds to me like your trapper is managing his resource. He may want to take enough coyotes to have a good body count, but not hammer them so hard that he's no longer needed. Note the 'hired' part. Those ranches are his cash cow, where-as (in his eyes) you're just a dink-around that's in the way.
Another possibility is that he is also calling and doesn't want the competition.

Seems to me that a decent trapper and a decent caller would always take more coyotes than someone using just one method.

Posted by coyote down (Member # 2887) on April 03, 2011, 10:11 PM:

It was my understanding that when leg hold traps were outlawed in Colorado, that you could only get a one month permit to trap a ranch that was having predator problems. I could easily be wrong, but if that is the case legally, what is the ranchers plans for predator control the other 11 months of the year? That might give you a way back in.

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on April 04, 2011, 10:21 AM:

If you call and shoot the coyotes they have a hard time going to the traps..
Carl

Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on April 04, 2011, 11:13 AM:

quote:
If you call and shoot the coyotes they have a hard time going to the traps..
Carl

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on April 04, 2011, 12:01 PM:

In good weather, traps/snares work 24/7. I like those odds.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2011, 12:17 PM:

Randy......so, what's your point, exactly?

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on April 04, 2011, 12:56 PM:

No ADC. Strictly a recreational trapper/caller. But if someone called me with a REAL problem, I would not consider calling. I would set traps/snares, kill all I could, and hope the guilty party was among the dead.

And Scott already said it:

quote:
If coyotes are in the area, they will usually hit the best trap locations whether someone is calling there or not.

So to think opposite of Carl and George...it would be pretty difficult for the coyote to come to the call if he was already in a trap or dead.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2011, 02:17 PM:

Okay. That's clear enough.

now what about coyote down's comment?

GH/LB

[ April 04, 2011, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on April 04, 2011, 04:09 PM:

Well, I researched Colorado's trapping regulations and my understanding could be all wrong because I am not a lawyer. But it looks to me like you can use foot traps on private ground as long as they are equipped with padded jaws and 4 pounds of pan tension. Snares are legal too in a nonlethal application. Public ground is out unless you want to catch a coyote in a box trap. Good luck.

The 30 day permit is issued to a rancher when he is experiencing problems outside the regular furbearer season. That length of time should be plenty to handle the problem and should it arise again at a later date he could request another.

Again, not ADC and I shall prepare myself for the dogpile..LOL

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 04, 2011, 05:40 PM:

One rancher told me that the trapper was a "state" trapper, what ever that means. I guess I wasn't aware that the state of CO. had "state" trappers.
It just seems to me that a few coyotes shot when called would only lead to a few less to get caught in a trap. I just don't see how "calling" from time to time is going to make it more difficult to catch the remaining coyotes.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2011, 06:48 PM:

Poor Baby.

You have been around here a long time. I can't ever remember a dog-pile, except poking at you about machine-guns, and, whenever it occurred, was very good natured.

And you contributions are generally not worthy of scorn.

But, you are right; there's always a first time, so prepare yourself.

GH/LB

score tied 11-11

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on April 05, 2011, 09:33 AM:

Having recently been one of the "dog pilers", I will state that I have to agree with AR's logic. Why opt for a technique that gives you twenty minutes of coverage when you can get 24/7 times whatever number of traps and snares you use?

Although I honestly think it's just the trapper's way of making sure he can maintain good image with the rancher by adding in the no competition clause to his agreement, I do recall being cautioned many years ago when being trained to do some ADC work here in Kansas to avoid implementing more than one strategy at a time. Maybe there was some wisdom to that.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2011, 10:42 AM:

Yeah, one strategy at a time, call upwind and next stand call downwind can really mess things up. Good advice.

GH/LB

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on April 05, 2011, 04:32 PM:

TRnCo were these cattle ranches?

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 05, 2011, 06:47 PM:

yip, cattle ranches...

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on April 05, 2011, 08:05 PM:

Are the calving now? Or getting close to calving?

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on April 05, 2011, 08:17 PM:

It always comes back to basics, "chicken or the egg"?
Carl

Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on April 05, 2011, 08:58 PM:

If I'm not mistaken Colorado has a similar system to that here in Washington, where fur trappers are often enlisted through a Nuisance Wildlife Control Operator permit (year round) and/or a damage control permit (time specific, 30-90 days), making us sometimes appear to be "state trappers."

Trapping season just ended here... so a fur trapper might be looking to extend his fur harvest a bit, and wants you (the competition, for fur) out of the equation (and to get his foot in the door for next year, at the same time)?

Since the fact that I don't work for the State generally came up when we got to talkin' about billing, despite the other fact that they got my number from Fish & Wildlife, anyone paying for the service would understand the real difference, I still was considered and/or called "the guy from the state" by some clients. [Wink]

All-City Animal Control threw 'em off pretty good, too.

Krusty

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on April 06, 2011, 05:43 PM:

Two of the ranches are calving now, BUT the trapper has pulled up stakes from one of them, and it's the one ranch that I am allowed to call on any time I want and that rancher has told me that he's not being having any troubles with the coyotes, so maybe that's why the trapper has pulled out of there already.
The third ranch deals with feeder calves only.

Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on April 08, 2011, 07:36 PM:

Bofire: "If you call and shoot the coyotes they have a hard time going to the traps.."

The best of the best in contest hunters are still only killing 80% of what they see. Most callers kill 30% of what they see. That leaves a lot of coyotes that need to be removed by other methods. Shaw's right.

On the Colorado issue, it doesn't take much to get a permit. Who is verifying the losses or do they take people at their word?

~SH~

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