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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on August 20, 2011, 06:01 PM:
 
I am curious as to your thoughts on scent sprays to minimize your human odor on a calling stand. Please no product promotions because a buddy sells it. I want to know what facts or observations you have made regarding scent covers to determine their value.

Keep in mind that coyotes in areas of continual human contact or areas where coyotes may associate a good experience with human odor will react differently than areas of less human activity or areas where coyotes associate negative experiences with human odor.

I'll wade in on this later but let me give you a few observations to help frame the debate...

1. A bird dog will point a bird with a bird in it's mouth.

2. A bloodhound, under certain conditions, can track an individual human down city streets.

3. A bird dog can point a bird after taking a full load of skunk in the face.

4. A drug dog can find cocaine in cargo loads of fish.

5. I have personally watched a coyote stick it's nose in my track in the snow and continue to come in until it hit my actual scent then turn tail and run.

Your thoughts?

~SH~

[ August 20, 2011, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on August 20, 2011, 07:09 PM:
 
I saw a called coyote, run in on our stand from downwind, and he ran in on the same single trac all three of us used to walk in ourselves. No cover scent was used. I can't imamgine he could not have smelled us.

Perhaps he was dumb, or extremely hungry. But he was "dead forever" after that mistake.

I am curious about this myself.

[ August 20, 2011, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 20, 2011, 08:26 PM:
 
I have one of those yard bug foggers thats hand held and its rather interesting to see how the fog behaves with different temps, humidity and a lite breeze.. I would think our scent behaves in the same way.
As a caller walks into a stand with a lite breeze I don't believe our scent goes straight to the ground in some cases but up and away and this maybe why some coyotes can come in on our foot prints and not scent anything..
I've hunted with bird dogs and know that the dog works best hunting into the wind and if its a little stronger than 10 mph the dog has a harder time finding the birds and will get worse as the wind speed is increased.. I've also noticed when a dog works a birds scent trail its a pretty small window (stream) for them to pick on on just a step or two puts them off the scent..
I've followed coyote tracks in the snow in a CRP field and notice a coyote hunts roughly the same way and also noticed its nose is'nt as good as some may think it is..
The coyote starts out on a straight line and just keeps going in one direction pretty much and may vear off from its course 10-15 yds in most cases and pick up a mouse or vole and then continue on.. If its nose was as good as some think then the coyote tracks wouldbe more direct and straight to its prey each time..

[ August 20, 2011, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 20, 2011, 08:43 PM:
 
I know we can't beat a coyotes nose but I read a reply by Rich Higgins that made me think.

He said it could minimise our scent enough to make the coyote think we're farther away than we are, or something like that.

Having raised bird dogs, I've seen them run a trail a ways then backtrack realizing they were going the wrong way. This is where I think Rich's comment has value. If we can fool them so they don't know which way we went or how far we are, it could be beneficial and increase their comfort zone.

As for products, I wear rubber boots alot and have used some scent sprays but maybe a charcoal suit could work?

I've never really seen any of the sprays work. I have seen the boots make a difference, especially with deer. Course Copenhagen on stand doesn't help or any other scent that comes as you breathe...
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 20, 2011, 09:00 PM:
 
Cover scent is worthless when used for the purpose of fooling the nose of a coyote.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on August 21, 2011, 03:13 AM:
 
i've only did the scent contoll thing 1 time that was an all out affair. my brother and i were in a tournament. every stich of clothing we were to wea that day was washed in noscent soap and than put in the dryer with boxes of baking soda. even our underware and bino harnesses and packs. also showered before heading out. our clothing was literally white with b/s. started calling about 8.00 am and we were done by about 3.00pm. the day started out SUPER foggy with a slight 5mph breeze. viz was no more that 100 yards from 8 to about 1pm. that day we called in 21 coyotes and killed 15. farthest shot was maybe 125. all others were much closer. some at 20 yards. most were 30-50 yards. going by memory, at least 10 of those came straight in downwind or crossed our scent stream. a couple wwould slightly slow down when crossing our scent but NONE got spooked at all.this area we hunted has a very low population of people with little to no hunting (calling) pressure. this hunt took place on oct 30th last year. never really checked on adult to YOY status as we were to busy and having the time of our lives to check. all i do know is we took extreame measures and had the best day of coyote #'s that i've ever heard of. conclude what you will.



15 coyote on top. gotsome strange looks and a few fist pumps on the road back to check in

[ August 21, 2011, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 21, 2011, 06:32 AM:
 
I have never botherd with scent killers when coyote hunting my only experience with them is archery deer hunting.Wnile on an archery hunt in northern Az. I used this product from H.S. on the recomendation of Steve Criner I literally drenched myself in the stuff spraying everything bow,stool cloting to the point they were wet. I set up on the ground in some ferns and waited . Long story short I had a deer come in behind me not 3- ft. from me and it had no idea I was there After some time I turned to see if it had gone and it broke out like a rocket scared the shit out of both of us.The deer must have stood there for at least 8- 10 min.This is one experience so I cant draw any hard conclusions from it but it amazed me.I can say the product did nothing to keep the chiggers off worst infestation of my life holy shit that itches.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 21, 2011, 08:09 AM:
 

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I am curious as to your thoughts on scent sprays to minimize your human odor on a calling stand.

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its nose is'nt as good as some may think it is..

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The coyote starts out on a straight line and just keeps going in one direction pretty much and may vear off from its course 10-15 yds in most cases and pick up a mouse or vole and then continue on.. If its nose was as good as some think then the coyote tracks wouldbe more direct and straight to its prey each time..

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I know how easy Tim thinks the calling is in Texas, but practically every coyote that manages
to get down wind bugs-out.

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I am highly skeptical that a spray could do any good,

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Is it worth it? Sometimes, probably not, especially on day stands when they don't bother to go downwind until they figure out that something ain't right, and are usually dead before that happens.

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just kill them before they get there (down wind)..

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Another question, how many of you smoke when you are driving between calling stands?

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The down wind pause is an 'analysis break' or a scensory overload as some have described it.

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Long story short because no matter what my opinion is its going to be void because I work for HS(scent a way).

World Championships 2008. We parked and made a stand, and the truck could be seen by hundreds of acres of flat ground to the west (we were hunting the east side). We got back to the truck and a coyote was settin out there giving us "what for" because he obviously new the truck wasnt supposed to be there, and he probably smelled us because the wind was blowing right to him. Well it pissed me off because we had made 5 stands and killed 4 and that one was dry so thinking about all I have learned or picked up from ou old timers" I thought,hmm didnt they say coyotes were killed alot after hunters drove off leaving a shooter behind??? Well I told Clay” Give me 7 minutes" He drove his mile away and started the time. Minute three I called and killed an adult male 30 yards from where I was settin, which was where the damn truck was parked.

What did that tell me??? It told me I killed the barkin bastard that approached from the down wind and came right to where he knew I just was and was probably still smellin me. He also had visual confirmation of my presence.

Scent elimination is a tough one, but odor control is easy in my book. Cut down on the scent where they think your gone or too far away to be any danger to them. They will do 3 things only if they smell ya. Run like hell, stop and think about it, or keep comin. Its simple as that.

The question is if you want to do the work to control odor. We premote a system. We also say if you just spray down and dont do the rest its a waste so save your cash.

YOu will never fool a coyotes nose (long snouted canine)(parts out smell by the millions, I think??) He will smell you know matter what, how much he smells or pressure levels dictate the rest.

Disclaimer: I never promote a bad wind period!

[ August 25, 2011, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on August 26, 2011, 06:04 PM:
 
This same topic was beat around on trapping forums in the past.

The issue is not the amount of human scent at any given spot, the issue is the freshness of that scent. That has been proven time and time again with blood hounds, trail hounds, and bird dogs. There is a huge difference, to a lot of coyotes, between where you were and where you are just as there is a huge difference between where a pheasant is and where it just was.

Personally, I think the scent covers are a joke and just another way to make money off the less than informed.

Now misting, on the other hand, has merit to stop a coyote and get a shot you might not have gotten.

~SH~

[ August 26, 2011, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on August 26, 2011, 06:43 PM:
 
i respectfully disagree with you Scott. scent control has merit. however, most don't know/do whats needed. putting spray on your clothes ai'nt gonna do shit if other factoers ar'nt taken care of. i'm a bowhunter and have had 1000's of deer in very close quarters to me. there is a huge difference in scent control. here's a post i did on a whitetail forum i visit. now i know its a pain in the ass and i seldom do this all the time but...this works for me when i go into a deer stand but with coyotehunting and jumping in and out of a rig many times a day,eating sandwitches,smoking,ect this is probably more that most can handle. read this post i'm gonna copy and paste. some time try it when you need to kill a certain coyote whenever you need too.
(


posted on 7-31-2011 at 20:10may seem off the wall and i really don't know what part is key but i'll try to do a step by step. relize first that my routine takes some time time and is a real pain. i do not do this everytime i hunt but do it when the chips are down and i need to get agrresive..first off is the clothing.
everything i wear including socks and underwear is or course washed. i use a full box of baking soda along with no scent soap.before i dry them, i put 1/2 box of baking soda in the dryer for a bit. i than clean the lint dryer and add clothes along with 1 full box of baking soda. (i buy it by the case). when my clothes come out, they are literally white. i than store them in a clean tote.. Denise gets emmbarrased when friends come over and wonder why our driveway is white..(dryer vent).
i don't feel like hanging my clothes out on the line works as well as i live in town and believe it picks up town odors. i also litterally dump b/s in my boots and dust them real good on the inside.
my gear. i hang my bow up and spray the crap outta it including arrows,feathers (EVERYTHING). i use the same homebrew recipe that i'm sure some of you guys use.. i also spray down everting that i carry into the woods including my binoculars/harness.
my body:. i work construction and tend to be a stinky person this part may take awhile first is i start taking chlorrophyl tablets about sept1. i use Nullo brand. they are a bit more $$ but i truely believe they do work in cutting down body and (fecal) smell!!!!!! just ask the wife
so far what i've said is perhaps common knowledge but this is what i REALLY feel makes a big difference. !! i take a hot bath for 1/2 hour or so. i soak with just my face above water while reading a hunting mag. this is the 1 step that i truley believe does the trick. after soaking, i litterally scrub my whole body with unscented ivory soap and a loufa{sp} sponge. i also use ivory on my hair and let it sit for a few minutes before washing it off. i DO NOT believe that the no scent soap even comes close to cleaning as ivory does. yeah, your hair will feel a bit hard but so what!!!. it may strip the oil from your hair but that may be what holds the most odor. i also put 1 box of b/s in the bath before i get in. i scrub my ears,toes,feet,everything. I can't reach my back so i use a long handled brush.. i've also quite a few times poured a whole bottle of hydrogen peroxide in the bath as its supposed to be a odor nutralizer but have quit do to all the cost. however i do think
it does work.. i than imediattly go to the shower and rinse off real well. for those that just shower and think you get clean. do what i just said in reverse. clean off in the shower like you normally would. than draw a bath and use ivory soap and a scrub pad. yuo might be amazed at how dirty the water gets!!!!!!! expecially after doing your hair when i' all dried off with a clean towel i than go to the basement and literally spray my body down with the homebrew spray. let it sit for a bit that re-dry with the towel.
i than get into a clean set of clothes(usually just sweat pant and shirt and head out. i try to ovoid staying in the house anylonger than i have too.i also always have gas in the tank so i don't have to stop on the way to the stand.. . when getting dressed at my spot, i think it's SUPER IMPORTANT to wash my hands real good before dressing. does no good to have the smell of my lunch on the steering wheel and than pulling on my clothes. on our own propery, i have a big tub of rain/river water that i use. once finished dressing, i also dunk my boots in the water to make sure therir good and clean and in i go. also, on my own propery, i mow/rake/roundup most of the trails heading to my stands. its purty thick on mine and i can get in quite and clean. i do this about this time of year and the deer get used to traveling the routes. Denise and i just did last week clip all vegatation along the trails that we may bump against going in. now, as some of you know, i have an OLD dirty rotten doe that has plaged me for years. when i see her coming i just cringe because she knows where EVERY stand is and perposaly goes out of her way to check them out(downwind). i've seen her do some way weird stuff to do so!!! she is the one that made me do all this s$%t. i truley hate her and wish the last winter woulda killed her dispite all the effort i put into avoideing her, she has always pegged me. usually at real close range and she lets EVERY other deer know it!! so i had a brain fart one day and thought it was worth a shot!! now this is the part that really sounds off the wall but!!!??? i went and bought some unscented lotion and after doing my bathing routine, i slathered myself with it including my feet,face, and asked Denise to literally cover me in B/S. she looked at me like i was nuts but she did and i came out looking like Casper the ghost.
the old b#$#h came down wind at about 15 yards, got straigt downwind, stopped and stared at me!!. she could plainly see me as i was only 10 feet up. she stared and stared and stared her nose was working hard. i could see in her eyes that she was totally unsure of herself. her eyes were rolled back white but she DID NOT smell me!! this went on for a few minutes and she finally wagged her tail and walked on by!.
so in a nut shell thats what i do. the lotion and b/s is new and i've had real good luck with all the other steps. have had 100's of deer at very close range without alarming them. i also always breath through my nose when deer are close. i don't use ANY scented colone,deoderant,shampoo,shaving creame during hunting season. i also don't use scent-lok or simalar clothing. i really belive the key is infusing ALL items in b/s, washing my hands before dressinig and bathing/scrubbing before rinsing off. Denise also does this!! it is a pain and takes time/effort but she has also seen a BIG differece in close range deer downwind.
ok, i'm done. took me about 4 schmidt lights to write this
i really hope some of you bowhunters try it. thanks for listening. Dave.

(
posted on 7-31-2011 at 20:10


ok . now some of this stuff may seem off the wall and i really don't know what part is key but i'll try to do a step by step. relize first that my routine takes some time time and is a real pain. i do not do this everytime i hunt but do it when the chips are down and i need to get agrresive..first off is the clothing.
everything i wear including socks and underwear is or course washed. i use a full box of baking soda along with no scent soap.before i dry them, i put 1/2 box of baking soda in the dryer for a bit. i than clean the lint dryer and add clothes along with 1 full box of baking soda. (i buy it by the case). when my clothes come out, they are literally white. i than store them in a clean tote.. Denise gets emmbarrased when friends come over and wonder why our driveway is white..(dryer vent).
i don't feel like hanging my clothes out on the line works as well as i live in town and believe it picks up town odors. i also litterally dump b/s in my boots and dust them real good on the inside.
my gear. i hang my bow up and spray the crap outta it including arrows,feathers (EVERYTHING). i use the same homebrew recipe that i'm sure some of you guys use.. i also spray down everting that i carry into the woods including my binoculars/harness.
my body:. i work construction and tend to be a stinky person this part may take awhile first is i start taking chlorrophyl tablets about sept1. i use Nullo brand. they are a bit more $$ but i truely believe they do work in cutting down body and (fecal) smell!!!!!! just ask the wife
so far what i've said is perhaps common knowledge but this is what i REALLY feel makes a big difference. !! i take a hot bath for 1/2 hour or so. i soak with just my face above water while reading a hunting mag. this is the 1 step that i truley believe does the trick. after soaking, i litterally scrub my whole body with unscented ivory soap and a loufa{sp} sponge. i also use ivory on my hair and let it sit for a few minutes before washing it off. i DO NOT believe that the no scent soap even comes close to cleaning as ivory does. yeah, your hair will feel a bit hard but so what!!!. it may strip the oil from your hair but that may be what holds the most odor. i also put 1 box of b/s in the bath before i get in. i scrub my ears,toes,feet,everything. I can't reach my back so i use a long handled brush.. i've also quite a few times poured a whole bottle of hydrogen peroxide in the bath as its supposed to be a odor nutralizer but have quit do to all the cost. however i do think
it does work.. i than imediattly go to the shower and rinse off real well. for those that just shower and think you get clean. do what i just said in reverse. clean off in the shower like you normally would. than draw a bath and use ivory soap and a scrub pad. yuo might be amazed at how dirty the water gets!!!!!!! expecially after doing your hair when i' all dried off with a clean towel i than go to the basement and literally spray my body down with the homebrew spray. let it sit for a bit that re-dry with the towel.
i than get into a clean set of clothes(usually just sweat pant and shirt and head out. i try to ovoid staying in the house anylonger than i have too.i also always have gas in the tank so i don't have to stop on the way to the stand.. . when getting dressed at my spot, i think it's SUPER IMPORTANT to wash my hands real good before dressing. does no good to have the smell of my lunch on the steering wheel and than pulling on my clothes. on our own propery, i have a big tub of rain/river water that i use. once finished dressing, i also dunk my boots in the water to make sure therir good and clean and in i go. also, on my own propery, i mow/rake/roundup most of the trails heading to my stands. its purty thick on mine and i can get in quite and clean. i do this about this time of year and the deer get used to traveling the routes. Denise and i just did last week clip all vegatation along the trails that we may bump against going in. now, as some of you know, i have an OLD dirty rotten doe that has plaged me for years. when i see her coming i just cringe because she knows where EVERY stand is and perposaly goes out of her way to check them out(downwind). i've seen her do some way weird stuff to do so!!! she is the one that made me do all this s$%t. i truley hate her and wish the last winter woulda killed her dispite all the effort i put into avoideing her, she has always pegged me. usually at real close range and she lets EVERY other deer know it!! so i had a brain fart one day and thought it was worth a shot!! now this is the part that really sounds off the wall but!!!??? i went and bought some unscented lotion and after doing my bathing routine, i slathered myself with it including my feet,face, and asked Denise to literally cover me in B/S. she looked at me like i was nuts but she did and i came out looking like Casper the ghost.
the old b#$#h came down wind at about 15 yards, got straigt downwind, stopped and stared at me!!. she could plainly see me as i was only 10 feet up. she stared and stared and stared her nose was working hard. i could see in her eyes that she was totally unsure of herself. her eyes were rolled back white but she DID NOT smell me!! this went on for a few minutes and she finally wagged her tail and walked on by!.
so in a nut shell thats what i do. the lotion and b/s is new and i've had real good luck with all the other steps. have had 100's of deer at very close range without alarming them. i also always breath through my nose when deer are close. i don't use ANY scented colone,deoderant,shampoo,shaving creame during hunting season. i also don't use scent-lok or simalar clothing. i really belive the key is infusing ALL items in b/s, washing my hands before dressinig and bathing/scrubbing before rinsing off. Denise also does this!! it is a pain and takes time/effort but she has also seen a BIG differece in close range deer downwind.
ok, i'm done. took me about 4 schmidt lights to write this
i really hope some of you bowhunters try it. thanks for listening. Dave

(

[ August 26, 2011, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 26, 2011, 09:51 PM:
 
I don't care if you write it 3 times, I ain't going through all that trouble

I have to ask, why didn't you just shoot the old doe?
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on August 27, 2011, 04:42 AM:
 
oopp's on the double post.
Tom, we're only allowed 1 deer a year here due to Minn's horrible mis-management of our deer herd.
yeah, it's alot of work to do but...and no, i will probably never do this for a coyote hunt
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 27, 2011, 05:59 AM:
 
Just giving you a hard time.

One deer a year? That would suck.

I work around oils, grease and solvents and used to worry alot about making stands after work but I just work the wind and know I stink. Of course deer hunting fom a tree stand is different.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 27, 2011, 08:51 AM:
 
A major difference between hunting coyotes on stand for fifteen minutes and spending all morning in a tree stand is that the wind currents are variable.

It is fairly easy to keep aware of the wind direction for fifteen minutes although I have seen that direction change more than three times in that span of time.

But, the zephyrs and eddies occurring before sunup to midday make it very difficult to be aware of anything, (any particular direction) besides the current one in a tree stand.

Besides that, out here we seldom, if ever resort to tree stand tactics so the effort detailed above is kinda useless. Rephrase that, not useless but of very little value for western conditions.

For coyotes, well, umm, that's a lot of effort. I can't imagine going to all the trouble but when a man is dedicated, there is no limit to what he will do.

Thanks for sharing.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 27, 2011, 02:51 PM:
 
Leonard,
If you plant a maple tree today, it would be big enough to place your tree stand in it by the time you are 80 years old.

Edited to add---To keep your lady happy while camping, be sure to give her some good wood.

[ August 27, 2011, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on August 27, 2011, 04:02 PM:
 
Bearhunter,

Ahhhh.....if you think all that will help your success, then keep doing it. Myself, if I couldn't find a few different tree stands that worked with different wind directions I guess I'd try to find a tree stand down wind of a feedlot and hope the deer could not differentiate between the two smells. LOL!

Perhaps the curiousity instinct of that doe to your unique new odor was stronger than her caution. You might have given off some infrared glow that was only detectable to cautious does?

Regardless....

Deer - prey species - apples
Coyote - predator species - oranges

A deer's sense of smell is not in the same league as a coyote's.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 27, 2011, 04:41 PM:
 
Boy, now we are getting somewhere! Deer noses don't measure up to a coyote!

How about a little documentation for that statement?

Personally, at first blush, I don't think I agree. Sorry.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 27, 2011, 05:23 PM:
 
Deer= 297 million olfactory receptors

canine= 220 million receptors
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 27, 2011, 05:29 PM:
 
A animals nose is conditioned through its own life experience good and bad.
Same with one of those drug smelling dogs, they are trained or conditioned to smell just one thing drugs and forget everything else..
While in the service the L.E. had dogs in the cars or at the gate and used them to search for drugs in cars and ect. In order for the dog to smell these drugs it had to be with-in so many feet of them to pick the scent up, same canbe said when doing a building search, the dog has to go from room to room in its search, again the dog haveing to be so many feet from the drugs in order to smell them..

When calling coyotes we are out in the open country-side and on stand for so many minutes, hardly enough time for our scent to flood the area vrs. a deer hunter setting in the same tree stand day after day..

As far as scent goes all animals canbe conditioned to it natrualy or on purpose.
Natrualy would be from being exsposed to human scents from food tossed in the road ditches or hunting around farm homes and so on..
To condition a animal on purpose is pretty simple, just scatter youre scent through out the area and in a matter of time they will get used to it..

I used to hunt deer big time here at home and the last five years or so I was just limited to hunting one area which was a fence line next to a winter deer yard, the fence line was about 100 yards from the grove and I could only shoot them when they crossed over to feed.. The fence line only had brush or young trees along it so a tree stand was out so I used a ground blind nothing fancey just a piece of old burlap for a curtain so I could move around a little as it got pretty cold when sitting on the ground.. The deer had three places where they crossed over the fence, I would pattern them and then pick the spot were I wanted to sit. The does always came out of the grove first and the bucks came last with about 10-15 minutes of shooting light..
As long as the does did'nt step on me or catching me smokeing a cig. then I was ok. The reason being is I would use all three fence crossing and leave my scent there buy just being there and burying a few cig. butts in the dirt..
The farmer that had his building site on the east side of the grove and he also smoked so the deer got used to his scent and the smell from the cig.s...
About the only thing I do to reduce my scent is just keep my coat off or unzipped till I get to my ground blind and same when walking out to make a stand for calling and once seated have it zipped up all the way...
As far as coyotes just shoot them before they pick your scent up as you don't know for sure how they are going to react, some will keep going and some stopped to look with there eyes or some don't care and just keep comeing..
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 27, 2011, 06:39 PM:
 
I dont have any studies and am proud to say I am not even a deer hunter, but I do have to deal with the pesky vermin every year. I agree with Scott. Deer are not in the same class with coyotes when it comes to smelling.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 27, 2011, 08:17 PM:
 
Randy, it could be a question of priorities? Deer have certain things that trip their trigger, but I don't agree that they have an inferior nose. Same with a coyote, they have certain things that matter and I think it's safe to say, they have an adequate nose.

I also feel that cats are vastly underrated for the same reason. Certain things are not very important and after a few observations, you get the feeling that they don't have a nose.

Rating them against a canine, I can't really say, but they have a decent nose and most of the time, what they detect doesn't trip their survival instinct, compared to a coyote. In other words, a cat won't bother circling downwind, but if he happens to BE downwind, I think they smell me.

They don't spook because they don't know they are in danger and there again, I don't think it is because they are stupid. They just don't think that you can hurt them, whereas, a coyote isn't going to take any chances.

Getting back to the deer versus coyote. If Vic's stats are correct, that tells me that the deer have the capability. Okay, a coyote has much less concern about whatever he smells, it falls into a few categories, sex, food, danger and probably some others?

But, for the most part, a coyote doesn't have the predator worries that a deer does; wolf, lion, eagle, and coyote.

So, how do we reach the conclusion that a deer does not possess as good a nose as a coyote? I assume through observation? Now, intelligence, that is another story. Maybe a deer doesn't have the gray matter to process everything that he needs to be aware of? Does a mature buck process these things a little better than a doe and survives until the rut makes him stupid?

I think a mature mule deer buck has a good nose, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on August 28, 2011, 05:51 AM:
 
I don't think we can comprehend what aimals can smell, nor do we always understand motive...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asxrMSVrJ08

[ August 28, 2011, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 28, 2011, 09:51 AM:
 
A human has 5 million olfactory receptor sites in his nose, a coyote 220 million, a deer has several hundred million.

I would assume if based on the shere number of receptors it would be the deer, can the deer process all the information, prey to predator mindset, what it takes to survive or starve importance that sharpens certain senses. I don't know.

Is there a point where after having so many receptors are you just spliting hairs? I don't know?

I've seen fawns lie down on a stand and then called in coyotes directly toward and see the coyotes have a really hard time pinpointing where they are, seen my dogs have an even harder time locating them.

Are the fawns using a scent cover or just giving off very little scent. Mother nature provided them with something or without something. Mom seems to find them no problem. IMO fawns are the scent free clothing users in tha animal world very little scent or odor.

I don't think drug dogs could be great bird dogs nor great bird dogs be great lion dogs maybe an exception here or there. Domestic dogs usually are trained by humans toward a certain species or smell to receive a positve responce from the human trainer, most will starve if lost in the wild. All of their potential for being anything near a wild canine, coyote, is lost by the raising, training and feeding from a human.

Scent cover or odor cover reduces scent or odor but at what point does it really matter? If it still leaves .001% percent of human scent or odor to an animal with hundreds of million more receptors than me what is the difference. Does it struggle to smell me or is it still more than enough to pinpoint me easily. At full bore no scent clothing stinkin etc. is that animal only using .001% of it's smelling ability to smell me.

There is no doubt some coyotes know human scent and odors and fear it and no doubt some do not it would all seem to be based on life experiences.

I did see a turkey hunter one time wearing scent cover clothing, watched him spray down before he went hunting too! I think he was from CA.

[ August 28, 2011, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Randy Roede ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 28, 2011, 10:47 AM:
 
I DID NOT!
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on August 28, 2011, 01:10 PM:
 
LB, one of the best wingshots I ever quided came from CA.

He shot 9 times killed 9 pheasants in a 3 day hunt and his partner was not far behind. We never hunted more than an hour and more important they tipped well!! Almost felt a little quilty.
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on August 28, 2011, 03:18 PM:
 
i have know idea what can smell better. deer/coyote don't care either they can both smell damn good!!
was once eating lunch while deer hunting. seen a deer coming from a bit over a mile away and heading my way. it ended up being a doe. she came wide open across a just plowed field 1 full mile. she crossed the road right in front of my truck. 5 minutes later i seen another deer coming. it was running 1/2 speed and followed her trail to the step. ended up being a average sized buck. he crossed the road in the exaxt spot the doe did. there were no terrain features that funneled these deer. a FLAT dirt field. last year opening night of bow season i had 2 coyotes walk in on the exact same trail i was just on 1 hour ago. they did'nt seem alarmed in the slightest. shot the lead one at 12-14 yards . they walked straight downwind of Denise and both knew something was up but did not get alarmed. she takes the same scent controll efforts as i do.
to what extent certain precautions help, i don't know but i've been an avid bowhunter for 30+years and i KNOW IT WORKS and if done what i described earlier it can work ultra-super-fantastic however i will say it probably makes a big difference just sitting in a tree and not working up a sweat over walking 10 miles a day hunting coyotes.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 28, 2011, 05:47 PM:
 
"I did see a turkey hunter one time wearing scent cover clothing, watched him spray down before he went hunting too! I think he was from CA. [Eek!]"
-----------------------------------------
So when compared to the sniffer of a Turkey Buzzard, how well can an Eastern Gobbler smell?
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on August 28, 2011, 05:52 PM:
 
Vic: Deer= 297 million olfactory receptors

canine= 220 million receptors

Like I said, a deer's sense of smell is not in the same league as a coyote. LOL!

For the sake of argument, let's assume the olfactory sense information you provided is accurate. Based on literally hundreds of field observations with both downwind deer and downwind coyotes, the reaction to human smell between the two is noticeable both in distance detected and flight reaction. So, assuming the deer's sense of smell is better, their defense mechanisms based on that ability obviously is not. Based on my observations, you can get by more with deer than you can coyotes until you get in to closer ranges. Different tolerance levels? Differences in how they utilize their ability to detect odors? I don't know. All I know is how they react. Thanks for the info.

Leonard,

Based on my observations while trapping cats and/or coyotes, I agree with you on a bobcat's sense of smell. They can smell far better than they are given credit for as evidenced by the number of cats caught in flat sets with nothing more than a lure smeared on a backing. As you mentioned, their reactions are noticeably different. Perhaps the same situation with deer on how they process the information? Confidence level? Curiousity vs. caution? Cats just don't have the sense of alarm from human odor that coyotes do.

~SH~

[ August 28, 2011, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 28, 2011, 07:44 PM:
 
Count me as one of those who do not give a bobcat much credit when it comes to smelling. Scott used a flat set as an example. More than likely, the trap was set on good sign and the cat would be traveling really close anyways. Hell, I can smell canine call when I get out of the truck. And a good meat based urine aint far behind. But, who knows, maybe my ability to smell has increased as my ability to hear has decreased. LOL

It just seems strange to me that a cat would pay no mind to my scent as it approached from downwind, but would freeze and often times bolt when seeing a slight movement from an unidentified object.

I honestly cannot say I have ever had a cat wind me and leave. Day or night. During the dark, if a man is patient and knows how to handle a light most cats will stick around until dead. No matter the wind direction. Cant say the same for coyotes.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on August 28, 2011, 08:18 PM:
 
Scott,
I had it in my head that a coyote seperates smells by 1000000 parts and a whitetails 1000. I cant remember who told me that.

If a deer does smell better is it possible to process the smell poorly compared to the coyote.

He may smell better but the dumbass cant read it, maybe? I cut my teeth shooting whitetails with a bow. I play the wind very seriously just like I was coyote hunting. Ive killed numerous big bucks with a bow but I will say, they are easy if you ever get to where you can kill coyotes consistantly. Some of the bonehead whitetail guys I work with will argue to the bitter end on that. They are just not even remotely equivelent to a coyote or cockroach when it comes to survival...
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 29, 2011, 06:03 AM:
 
Interesting point about comparing the ability of smell & what that animal does with the information. Deer seem to "learn" slower that human scnet = DANGER, where a coyote seems its imprinted in their DNA from birth?

I'm sure any of you guys that bowhunt deer will tell know how 'dumb' a 1.5yr old buck is about scent, as compared to a wonky old slickhead, or big buck that will stomp & snort down the woods at the 1st whiff. Yet, even a big buck can be duped when he's thinking with his 'other head' during the rut?
Coyotes just don't seem to tolerate 'fresh' human scent AT ALL. Possibly their capacity to 'age' the scent & factor the immediate risk has something to do with their reaction?
Is it possible that coyotes in an area with more human interaction have "learned" by experience to only deem 'hot' human scent to be a risk?
And older human scent is nothing to fret over?

Case in point.
During a winter stroll for rabbits with the shottie, I worked a brushy hillside above a creek on my friend's farm. We usually jump shoot a cottontail or two here after the New Year. This time, I was trudging through 8" of fresh powder & hadn't seen much sign of movement. After making a loop up & around, I headed back to the house...
Next morning, I made the same loop, nearly in my own tracks from the day before. Intersting part was, after a short spell, I found two sets of coyote tracks that cut my trail from the evening before! What was really interesting was the fact that those two sets of coyote tracks followed my old tracks for several hundred yards!
This was not an instance of 'taking the path of least resistance', as I was intentionally brush busting to jump out bunnies. But damn straight, those two coyotes followed my path...

Was that out of curiosity?
Sheer coincidence?
Or, more likely (to me), was it a learned behavior, possibly that a dead deer or gut pile might be waiting for them at the end of my track???

[ August 29, 2011, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on September 02, 2011, 06:01 AM:
 
Over the years I have watched how long it took before coyotes would start feeding on a road killed deer that I had placed in a strategic spot. Most every time it took 3 days even after those same coyotes had cleaned up 20 deer in that same place.

~SH~
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on September 02, 2011, 09:58 AM:
 
Flip side to that, I've had coyotes come into my camp and start chewing on deer hung next to my tent (with me sleeping in it) twice. Had a coyote once climb up on the tailgate of my truck to get a hold of a large lake trout (frozen) that was up between the side of the bed and the camper I was sleeping in once too. My partner caught that fish, about a 30 pounder, and was planning to have it mounted, damn coyote drug it off though. Tracks were plain to see in the light dusting of snow until it got to a sidehill where the wind had blown all the snow off and the ground was frozen too hard to show any track. Figure that coyote probably couldn't have weighed much more than that fish, might have even weighed less!

- DAA
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 02, 2011, 10:59 AM:
 
We were coming into a ranch a few hours after dark and found a doe hung in a fence. Should have been shot or knocked in the head, but Quinton bear-hugged while I went to work with the pliars. It was evident her hip was screwed-up and she hobbled off about 60 yards into a drilled wheat field and layed down. We came back through the same place less than 24 hours later during the daylight. Nothing left except for the stomach and hair scattered around.

Another time we were running snares along a sheep fence and came upon the back legs of a cottontail straddled on the top wire. Fresh blood where it used to attach to the rest of the rabbit. There are some power lines overhead, so we figure a hawk caught it and dropped the back legs while he was eating. Dont know for sure. Anyways, next day we come by and now just a set of bare bones in exactly the same position we had left them. Seems nothing goes to waste down there. LOL
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 05, 2011, 04:02 AM:
 
SCENT PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!

Alert the masses & wake the President!!!!! There's a new techno-gizmo to the rescue. Check out the Oct. issue of 'BowHunter' magazine, page 103, or just Google 'Ozonics'.
Quotes from the ad;
"Electronically changes oxygen molecules (O2) into ozone molecules (03) and projects them downwind with a quite fan thru your scent zone. Because O3 molecules are extremely unstable, they bond with any molecule they come near (scent molecules)rendering them indistinguishable to the nose of the deer."
"The bottom line is no matter how much human scent you emit, the deer will not smell you."

I gotta get me a couple of those things even though they're gonna look kind of funny hanging on my call lanyard.
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on September 06, 2011, 09:44 PM:
 
Good discussion guys!

I haven't played with any of that crap for coyote hunting or any other kind of hunting. (I'm not a bowhunter)

I always figured that your breath you couldn't conceal. I had a real good bird dog guy tell me that birddogs point on the scent of the birds breath not the bird. Try getting a good dog to point on a hidden dead bird.

I have also talked to Wisconsin deer hunters that don't eat meat for two weeks before deer season becasue they believe you give off predator Pharamones (sp) LOLOLOL!!!

I play the wind and watch my backside
 

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Posted by Wily E (Member # 3649) on September 11, 2011, 08:21 AM:
 
ND coyote killer: "I had a real good bird dog guy tell me that birddogs point on the scent of the birds breath not the bird. Try getting a good dog to point on a hidden dead bird".

Interesting. Now I am trying to remember whether I ever saw a bird dog point a dead bird (just shot) that they were recovering?

Corn breath? LOL!

~SH~

[ September 11, 2011, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on September 11, 2011, 09:42 AM:
 
Sorry not buying the theory of a dog smelling a bird by it's breath at all. They smell them by scent given off from their feathers,bodys and feet not by breath. Does a breath have a smell sure some better than others but that isn't where the main smell of any critter or human comes from even though they do sell mouth sprays and gums to add to your so called scent free situation.

There is nothing short of a vent free bag that would keep human scent 100% free from the area. There are products that help keep the scent at lower levels than nothing at all, but nothing will keep us scent free as we can't cover 100% of ourselves with any product that would do so. WE are giving off scent through skin cells, odors created by our bodies, sweat etc.

Deer in many areas are far differnt than many coyotes, in some areas human smell to deer mean another food source so little worries unless pressured, same can be said for coyotes to a degree, I know a guy that goes out to cali every winter to pollinate almond fields with bees and he say's you lip squeak to thsoe coyotes in the fields and they will come within a few 100 yrds and they are all over as humans mean another food source in those areas. They keep a distance but nothing compaired to coyotes in areas of heavier persicution and areas with far less human interaction. It comes down to what does that smell mean and how are they conditioned to such? I remember doing lawn care in an area years back where 150-170 class WT bucks would lay on golf greens and people could get within 50 yrds of these mature bucks, it was a sancutary for them little pressure back then and living life to the fullest in and around humans, far different reaction than many would experiance in a setting of more wild in nature.

Bird dogs and coon hounds are trained with the use of dead critters and live and the dead one's sure aren't giving off any breath smells but a dogs nose will still find them drags or dummies by the scent of the body.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 11, 2011, 10:20 AM:
 
Picking up a bird breath, nope not buying it also..

When hunting pheasants there is a short time frame of how long the scent trail will stay fresh enough for the dog to pick-up, usually just a few hours and perhaps a little more if there is dew on the ground.. The dog picks up on the scent as a bird leaves its resting spot that was used for the nite or as it moves around to feed.. My dogs would point on live or dead birds till given the command to either fetch it up or getem up.. On birds that have still been laid up in the A.M. the dog hits on the scent comeing off of the bird or from its own crap as a pheasant craps in its own resting spot...Depending on the weather conditions a dog will have to be with-in 20-30 yds or less to pick up a resting bird.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 11, 2011, 11:46 AM:
 
I don't know squat about bird dogs. Generally speaking, out here, a dog has limited usefulness, (I am told) because of strong sage smells although that clashes with what they say about dogs finding drugs in a boatload of fish, etc.

Anyway, What I am thinking of, is the breath of a bird and what a small volume it is, compared to the radiant stink coming off the whole body. Can, (actually) a dog find a hidden bird, or not? Seems like they do that all day long, if the master can do his part? I'm pretty sure that a bobcat can find overlooked birds in tall reeds, and everybody tells me they don't have a nose, at all?

Along the same lines, does a coyote smell death right away? I kinda think they do, based on reaction when they are following a trail of a sibling or mate. They give all indication that they know "something" is dead right up ahead and seldom need to walk up and sniff the carcass to know the facts of the matter. I'm talking, without a visual. Maybe they smell blood rather than death, but the reaction is similar. No?

Anyway, that is a provocative theory, bird breath.

gh....lb
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 11, 2011, 12:10 PM:
 
I have seen good bird dogs point dead birds. Most of the times it was brief, say 30 seconds or until you told them dead.Then they moved in.

For me, some of the toughes birds to relocate were the ones you flushed and watched exactly where they landed. Dogs seemed to have a tough time for a few minutes. I reasoned they were some what cleaned by the air during their short flight. Talking quail only here.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 11, 2011, 12:54 PM:
 

quote:

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For me, some of the toughes birds to relocate were the ones you flushed and watched exactly where they landed. Dogs seemed to have a tough time for a few minutes. I reasoned they were some what cleaned by the air during their short flight. Talking quail only here.

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quote:

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Along the same lines, does a coyote smell death right away? I kinda think they do, based on reaction when they are following a trail of a sibling or mate. They give all indication that they know "something" is dead right up ahead and seldom need to walk up and sniff the carcass to know the facts of the matter. I'm talking, without a visual. Maybe they smell blood rather than death, but the reaction is similar. No?

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