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Author
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Topic: Illegal Immigration
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 18, 2006 09:01 PM
All I hear from Politicians and the news media, is a bunch of rhetoric on Illegal Immigration. Lots of talk, and a ton of money thrown at a problem, with no hope or even a workable plan for correcting the problem.
In your opinion, how can we in the United States correct this problem? What exactly is the problem, and what do we need to do to fix it?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Joe Manes
Knows what it's all about
Member # 686
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posted September 18, 2006 11:01 PM
Tim
I dont know exactly how to fix it, but the root cause of the problem, mainly, is Mexico.
They have no reason to keep their own population.
By contrast, it is Mexico that benefits most from illegal immigration. Because most send money home, and although I forget the amount right now, it is HUGE.
Hence you get comic books on how to dodge our border installations, etc.
Posts: 31 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 19, 2006 05:52 AM
Get rid of whats here and tighten the boarder. Only answer I can see. I get soooo pissssed everytime Im sitting in court, half filled with Mexicans, and the judge calls one up. The first thing the judge asks, through an interpreter, is if they are legal. When they say no, the judge normally gives them a lighter sentence so they will serve it. Most illegals will run and not pay or serve their sentence. This really pisses me off, (needless to say we do not bond Mexicans for this reason) especially the first time I saw it in court. I thought illegal meant illegal?
IMO, they could start with deporting the ones that get caught committing crimes. Put them in the desert like the Phoenix tent city jail as sooon as they are convicted. AFTER they pay their debt here, fly their asses as far south as possible and kick em out. And, make sure they know that next time, they wont see daylight again. Then, begin deporting all the ones that are captured, after they serve an unpleasant sentence in a jail. (tent city jails are pretty cheap to run, cheaper than health care and social services and loss of jobs) There has to be an incentive to not come that outweighs the incentive to come.
Maybe do like alot of states do with hunting licenses. See what Mexico does if one of us goes down there and trys to establish citizenship illegally and applies for social services, health care and education. Whatever they do, lets do the same to their people.
Then, secure the damned border. Fence, wall, troops, volunteers, whatever. We have the technology and enough people pissed off to secure that border. Just need the freedom to do it.
It can be fixed.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 19, 2006 05:56 PM
I really can't believe that the root of the problem is Mexico, either in the people of Mexico (Who I feel are for the most part, unfortunate victims caught in the middle) or the Government. Money corrupts, and we keep handing their Government free money, why should we be surprised that the Mexican Government is keeping all of those millions, and not doing anything to help the citizens who aren’t part of the Government?
I really think the problem is easy money, and the US's willingness to just give so much of it away. Why would anyone who comes from a third world country, not want to live in the US? Unlike at home, there is no real threat of dieing here. All you need is proof of residency ( Not citizenship ) and we give you free food ( WIC credit cards ) Free shelter ( HUD ) and spending money for clothing, beer and cigarettes ( Unemployment checks )
Why can't we make programs that are paid for with citizen tax dollars, available to only those who hold citizenship, and pay taxes?
I really don't have a problem with providing medically necessary free medical treatment to those who can't pay, and as long as you are here and WORKING I don't mind giving your children a free High School education.
I really don't think that you could ever tighten the border enough to keep them out. These people have literally been migrating in and out of the US as long as the US has been in existence. Tightening the border in one place, only moves the crosser's to another. Many times, the climate in these alternate routes in so harsh, that many die trying to make it, and the smugglers are notorious for abandoning anyone in the group who slows them down.
I think we would be much better off to tighten our belts within the country. The perfect way would be to totally eliminate the Welfare state. If you don't work you don't eat.
Unfortunately, the liberals would never allow that to happen, but can't we at least change the laws to make these services only available to those with US citizenship?
Once we get rid of the lure of free money, we can have a workable guest worker program. Show up at the border with a clean bill of health, and no felony convictions and a good background check, and for a $50 filing fee, get a one year guest worker card, complete with a taxpayer ID. Then make a $5,000 per employee, fine for any employer to hire someone with out a permit. The worker would have to return to his home country, once every 12 months to reapply for a permit.
It seems so simple to me, get rid of a system that invites abuse, and those who would abuse it have no reason to stay.
What am I missing here?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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sparkyibewlocal440
Knows what it's all about
Member # 397
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posted September 19, 2006 09:14 PM
A guest worker program would give them an easy entry into the states,why would they want to leave after their time is up?
Is'nt it mostly money driven,they are here for the money to be made.Putting the screws to the employers hiring them would be a good start.
And they are not just taking the low end jobs that Whitey does'nt want either.Frustrating.
Posts: 170 | From: So. Cal | Registered: Sep 2004
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 19, 2006 10:30 PM
Sparky,
Good point, one thing that you need to consider about the Mexican culture. They are a very proud people, with strong family ties. If you send one home once a year with a pocket full of cash to get a new worker card, it will be months before he leaves his family to return. What kind of employer is going to give a top end job to a qualified employee, only to loose him for several months each year?
If a guest worker wants one of the better jobs, he is going to have to commit himself to it, and become a US citizen.
For those who would stay after their cards have expired, how about a one year mandatory sentence to a Federal Chain gang, followed by deportation. Second offence two years, third offence three? Too many weeds and trash along the Interstate system, someone needs to clean them up.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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sparkyibewlocal440
Knows what it's all about
Member # 397
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posted September 20, 2006 09:49 PM
Tim,you make a good point....This topic flat out makes me see RED.
I'm up again as last night when I should be horizontal,Gotta hit the rack.Perhaps we could compare notes at the campout.I'm buying the first round.Gary
Posts: 170 | From: So. Cal | Registered: Sep 2004
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 21, 2006 05:28 AM
Tim,
I think we got basically the same ideas, just focusing on different aspects. IMO, it all boils down to you have to take away the incentive for them to come here and they will stop coming.
Make it where they cant get a job, cant get welfare, cant get healthcare, cant get an education, ect... and make it where they will do hard time, especially for persistant offenders, and will be deported deep into Mexico, no matter where they are from, and they will stop coming.
Make it where the risk far outweighs the reward and your on your way to winning.
And, if you get caught with illegals working for you, the punishment should be severe as well. Shut your business down and hit you with huge fines and possible jail time. That would help.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted September 21, 2006 08:47 AM
quote:
Make it where the risks far outweighs the rewards.
I think that is key right there. And "the wall" lends some support to that philosophy. Tim said, a wall forces them to cross into more arid and dangerous parts of the desert. Exactly! Just one more "risk" involved in breaking the law. We need to continue growing the list of "risks". Eventually, the uneducated masses will catch on. The educated Meskins come into the U.S. legally. They are not the ones demonstrating in the streets, chanting "Viva Aztlan!" It's the illegals, and the uneducated children of illegals that contribute to the growing underclass of our society. We will never get our own carpet clean if our uninvited "guests" keep shitting on the floor!
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted September 21, 2006 09:31 PM
Illegals aren`t the problem, they`re just the symptom, I believe the real problem is OUR govt. & shithead politicians. I agree completely with the idea of doing away with EVERY single benefit that illegals recieve, no money, no healthcare, no more anchor babies, nothing, right down to the watering stations in the desert & that goes for ANYONE who isn`t a citizen of the U.S. not just Mexicans.
I don`t however have a problem with letting them in the country & making it easy for them to become a citizen. Give them a number just like the rest of us have & let them pay taxes & health insurance & plan for their own retirement & all the other wonderful things that the REST of us are required to do & pay for.
Better yet & probably cheaper too would be to make mexico the next state.
It`s all some sort of fantasy anyway, we all know that Govt. & big business have other plans that greatly benefit those with power while placing the load on taxpayers.
NASA, I`m not sure what to think of the fence, you make a good point but it`s comparable to putting a bandaid on your neck after your heads been cut off, I guess it may be a start, better than nothing.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Freddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 952
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posted September 22, 2006 08:03 AM
"In your opinion, how can we in the United States correct this problem?" One way we can help correct this problem is to become informed on how our elected representatives feel towards this. This website will allow you to look up your representatives and check on their immigration philosophy. Example: if you look up Sen. John McCain, you will see that he supports forced federal doubling of our population through illegal immigration. Take a look and see what your representatives support. www.betterimmigration.com/
Another way we can help the situation is by boycotting companies that are supporting illegal immigration such as www.millerboycott.com This is a rough one because I like to drink a little of Miller Genuine Draft. lol That's my opinion.
[ September 22, 2006, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Freddie ]
Posts: 29 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2006
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted September 22, 2006 08:18 AM
JD, I am in 100% agreement with your first two paragraphs. The fence is obviously just an intrim step. Unfortunately, our Govt. probably won't go any further than that step.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 23, 2006 05:14 AM
I think that the greater question that begs to be asked is "Why are all of the hard working men & good looking women leaving Mexico and coming north to work for George Bush??"
Mexico has abundant natural resources including oil.
Mexico has a great climate and miles of seashore. A tourist mecca.
Mexico has a population that basically has a good work ethic. These people are not stupid; often uneducated, yes, but seldom stupid.
So.......why the illegal immigration out of a country who's economy should be booming?
The problem (as I see it) is the corrupt socialist Mexican government itself that's holding Mexico back. Until the Mexican people themselves take control of their government, we will have an illegal immigration problem.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7582 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Freddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 952
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posted September 23, 2006 07:35 AM
Not all of the illegal people coming across our border are from Mexico, they come from all of South America and other countries. If you read the first five paragraphs of this article, it seems to show the magnitude of what is taking place. www.heritage.org/research/immigration/wm1076.cfm
Mexicans migrate to 'their land'
www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0%2c1249%2c635200794%2coo.html
[ September 23, 2006, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Freddie ]
Posts: 29 | From: Ohio | Registered: Sep 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 28, 2006 10:47 AM
(email message)
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!
It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting
the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal
immigration.
Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might
make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay
indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these
protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in
your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and
washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all
the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for
when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add me
to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids , and provide other
benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work because
he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part). If you
try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will
picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm
just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except
for well, you know.
And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a
fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it
without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an
anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, I want you to learn my language so you can
communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America....if you
agree, pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the value of it as a
good smile. If not blow it off along with your future Social Security funds,
and a lot of other things.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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