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Author
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Topic: Understanding what an animal or bird is saying
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted July 31, 2005 12:47 PM
I can't hardly believe some people's claims...WOW!
I think, folks who have spent time in the field. Watching, mimmicking[sounds], learning, ect, ect. Animals, birds & other creatures in the wild or pen-raised. Can get an "educated" opinion on whats going on, BUT....
to [say or state] as a [matter of fact]. "You" the self proclaimed "EXPERT"[s] [opinion]. That "you" know what their sounds, movements, postures, ect, ect, mean ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) .
You've got to be kidding me.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted July 31, 2005 01:29 PM
The more you spend in the habitat of an animal, the more you will be able to understand... except one... they human female... I don't think any amount of time will allow you the education required to understand... never are the reactions the same... never can they be predicted...
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted July 31, 2005 01:35 PM
Heck Norm, watch, listen, identify what they're saying and what you expect them to do next. Then plan for the exact opposite.
2dogs,
There's been a lot of discussion in the past of whether we can actually know what coyotes are saying to one another. Long story less long, doubt it. But, if you get the same basic reaction to a particular vocalization almost everytime you use it, you're safe in concluding what the predicted response will be when used, and when is the best time to use it or not. Admittedly, when I first met Higgins and he began tutoring me in "coyote", I was a skeptic. Then, it started to work. It's really something you have to see to believe and appreciate. Anyone who stands firm in choosing to stay inside the box is only costing themselves the opportunity to see some truly amazing shit.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted July 31, 2005 02:21 PM
Norm,
Your right. I don't even bother trying ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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Cdog911,
I hear what your saying. I don't disagree fundamentally with that.
What I'm saying is, someone who claims. They "know" [what]...they-[mammals, birds, ect] are saying...ie; GOD.
The words, [expert] & [hero] are used/abused to loose & freely by Mankind, eh ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted July 31, 2005 03:48 PM
When I was 4yrs old. We lived on a little farmsted, my Dad worked for two wealthy farmer's down the road.
One day my Dad & the younger farmer brother. Were cutting trees & brush along a field creek. Up in one of these trees, was a crows nest. It had 3 baby crows in it, 1/2 grown.
They left that tree stand, but my Dad took one of the crow fletchling & brought it home. He got an old wire [domed] parrot cage to put this crow chick in.
We feed it [Doc] hamburger, bread-"milk" soppins, grasshoppers, crickets, ect,[he'd eat anything, he could chuck down].
My sister who is a yr older than I. Spent pretty much our whole day[s] feeding & talking to this bird as it grew[probably drove him nuts!, LOL]. This bird[I know hard to believe]...but, could talk, quite well & understand even better.
Not just mimmick, but answer & ask questions. Or carry on a short conversation, using 3-5 word "squacky" sentences.
We also had a beagle-mix dog & a big ole farm cat. The crow, would torment them constantly[dive-bombing, then laughing] once he perched.
Our crow [Doc], would also torment our Mother. He'd wait until she just hung out the laundry[6-kids worth]. Then swoop down & start plucking clothes pins, from the far end of the line[out of her wrath].
My Mother would, yell at Doc for this. Then he would start laughing at her, while perched[out of stick throwing range].
They are truely an intelligent bird, & learn very quickly.
What a great memory.
[ July 31, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Bud/OR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 450
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posted August 06, 2005 06:13 PM
Hey Norm,
You are sadly mistaken about the human female...One caveat; They can't be older than three months old.
One vocalization that is distinct and repeatable is a high piched squall that raises in pitch and then lowers as her mouth is filled.... It means; I like titty! (I have tried to duplicate this call with my mouth full,in vain, because my wife kept slapping me. I finally resorted to sneaking a cassette recorder into my daughter's house and waited for my newborn grand-daughter to ring the dinner-bell. I got a sixty second loop before I was run out of the room.
The other vocalization (an old favorite of mine and I hope it's one of yours) is a screech that is way lower in pitch and breaks off with a number of 'wah-wah-wahs'. The clear meaning of this call is; 'I have just shit myself and someone had better deal with it!'. Now...It's no big trick to get a continuous loop with this call. The only thing required is to think ahead and carry a diaper with you when you start recording. When mom and grandma run into the room (they recognize the call and respond) You merely wave the diaper and they will smile and go back into the other room....It is imperative that you remember; after recording, go into the other room where they are gossipping and tell them someone needs to deal with that kid's pants. There's a diaper right next to it.
All kidding aside, I have these sounds recorded (the kid, not me). They work! So far 'Dianna ala Poop' has brought in six coyotes. And...I was very worried that Norm's misinformation might lead someone astray....Wonder if Bill Martz might be interested in adding...maybe...probably not.
Bud
P.S. As I think of it...there's another call they make...sometime after puberty...but I'm not going to go there.
Posts: 51 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 06, 2005 07:11 PM
Bud,
I have an idea that your last suggested loop would be far rougher on these old farts than it would be worth. After about five minutes of "hunting", most of 'em would be headed for home and mama with something besides hunting on their minds. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted August 06, 2005 08:41 PM
Lance,..us old timers are getting to old to cut the mustard anymore...I don't think i'll finish this...I know it had something to do with a jar?
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted August 31, 2005 07:05 PM
Today, I was standing on our deck. Day dreaming, thinking about my Dad. Seconds later, a Green Humming Bird shot from nowhere.
Stopped & hovered right in front of my face, about a foot away. This lasted maybe 10-seconds. The little guy was chirping at me, the whole time as he hovered.
Never had one ever do that. Made me smile.
[ August 31, 2005, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted September 02, 2005 08:37 AM
Kirby
What's your opin on this
Canine Communication
Dogs use all of their senses to communicate with each other and most of them to communicate with us. They have a rich body language utilizing eyes, ear position, head position, lip positions, nose wrinkling, body position, tail position and movement and hair erection on the back. Much of this has to do with dominance or submission but lip position is not all snarling. When the lips are drawn back in a smile of sorts it means the dog is happy, friendly and playful. Licking expresses love or gratitude. It is also used by puppies to ask for food and by adult dogs, along with a crawling position, to come close to dominant dogs without risking attack. Invitations to play also include nose-nudging, beckoning with downward swipes of one front paw in the air while sitting and bringing play objects which are dropped on the ground or floor near the companion while the dog then lies down with the "offering" between its front feet, ready to snatch it and run off to be chased if the canine or human companion shows an interest in the object.
Vocalization in dogs also conveys a wide range of meanings. Stanley Corren 4 offers the following compilations: Barks, continuous, rapid midrange; "Help! Someone is coming into our territory." Continuous slower and low pitch: "The danger is very close". Strings of three or four barks midrange: "There may be a problem or intruder, pack leader should go see." Prolonged barking: "I need companionship" (a response to confinement or being left alone for long periods). One or two short midrange barks: "Hello there!" Single bark, low to midrange: "Stop that!" ( mother dog disciplining a pup or dog disturbed from sleep, etc.) Short, sharp bark, higher pitch: "What's this?" If repeated two or three times,"Come look at this!" Single bark, midrange: "Come here" or "I need to go out" or "Look at me". Single yelp, a very short high pitched bark: "Ouch"! Series of yelps: Severe pain or fear. The yip-yip-yip howl: "I'm abandoned and lonely" Stutter bark "ar-ruff: Let's play". Rising barks- series of barks in which the pitch rises from mid to high within each bark occurs during vigorous play: "This is fun!" or excitement such as digging or running while hunting. Moaning "ar-owl-wow-wowl" is a sound of pleasure and excitement when something the dog really likes is about to happen.
Growls: Soft, low pitched growling: "Back off!" Low pitched growl-bark: "This is your last warning". Midrange growl-bark: "I don't want to fight but I'll defend myself". Undulating: low to high midrange with semi-bark: "I'm unsure/or frightened".-dog may either fight or run. Noisy growl with teeth hidden: "This is a good game-I'm having fun". (eg. tug-of-war.)
Whines: Soft whimpering; "I'm scared (eg vet's office). Louder, longer whine: "I want" (attention, food or hurry and put on the leash)
Sighs: A sigh when the dog is lying down with head on forepaws and eyes half closed means "I'm contented". A sigh with eyes open means "I'm disappointed," usually when something anticipated has not materialized.
Howling: "I'm in my territory". Dogs do not howl nearly as much as wolves, for whom group howling seems to be an enjoyable social event.
Baying: Characteristic of hunting hounds, means "All together now, let's go get him!"
Dogs also have a rich body language.
Eyes: Staring eye to eye is a sign of dominance or a challenge for dominance. Eyes turned to avoid direct eye contact are a sign of submission.
Tail: Tail high; "I'm confident" or "I'm the dominant dog." Tail below the horizontal: "I'm relaxed." Tail down, legs straight: "I'm not feeling well" or I'm depressed". Tail down, legs bent, back sloping down: The dog is unsure or insecure. Tail between legs: "I'm frightened (or ashamed), don't hurt me"! Tail with bristling hair: "I'm ready to fight". Rapid tail wagging equals excitement. Slight tail wag: "I see you looking at me - you like me, don't you?" Broad tail wag: "I like you" or "I'm pleased". During play, it is reassurance that the barking and growling is all in fun. Slow tail wagging with tail half down: "I don't understand what we are doing."
Ears: Erect, forward: Dog is alert and interested. Same with tilted head: "Very interesting but this is new to me". Ears pulled back and spread sideways: "I don't like this; I'm ready to fight or run." Ears pulled back flat against head: "I'm frightened."
Mouth: Smile: Mouth relaxed, slightly open. Yawn: unlike humans, in dogs, a sign of tension and anxiety. Lips curled: "You are annoying me". Lips curled and major teeth evident: "If you keep on, I may bite." Lips curled, all teeth and front gums exposed, nose wrinkled, hair on back bristling means violent attack imminent. (If you are confronted with this do not turn and run. Cast your eyes down, open your mouth and back away slowly.)
Body: The play-bow: Dog lowers head, extends front legs and keeps up: "Let's play!" Stiff-legged movements: Asserts authority and dominance. The roll-over: A sign of submission (or inviting a belly rub.) Paw on knee or head slide under hand or elbow: "Let's do something."
Last, but certainly not least, dogs communicate by smell, a facility which we can barely appreciate. The small anal glands apparently have an odor unique to each individual and this usually transfers to fecal deposits. Marking of territory and possessions with urine also implies unique odor variations. Female odor production during estrus is obviously of great importance. Odors produced by various diseases in both humans and dogs are well known to physicians and are likely to be even more evident to dogs. Wolves have an additional scent gland in the tail which dogs have lost, indicating an even more complex olfactory life.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 02, 2005 04:36 PM
Greenside,
Good observations...Also there is [content licking]. Tongue darts "partially" out multiple times in quick succession = contentment?.
From what I, as a human can tell. But, hey who knows for sure. As I can't speak dog.
Humans, are alot easier to read, eh
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted September 02, 2005 05:01 PM
Bud,>>Quote
P.S. As I think of it...there's another call they make...sometime after puberty...but I'm not going to go there.
Bud,isn't that in the form of,sniff,sniff,sniff.lickity split
[ September 02, 2005, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Melvin ]
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted September 02, 2005 07:05 PM
I formed a "saying" on another site awhile back.
"The smartest man[as in mankind]...Know's but a grain of sand...In the desert of truth"
This is true no matter how intelligent man/woman think they may be. The other day, at my Father's home. My younger Bro & I. Were in a [deep] conversation about "LIFE".
I said, "There are many intelligent people on Earth. But they all "know nothing" He looked at me in bewilderment. I bent over...picked a blade of grass. Shown it to him. I asked him, the following;
How many cells, are in this piece of grass?
How much does it weigh?
How many fibers are in it?
How many bacteria or germs are on/in it?
How much time[seconds]photo synthesis, took place to make it green?
ect,
ect,
ect.
He smiled.
We know nothing. "We can not see the forest, for the tree's" ,eh. My mind is open.
[ September 02, 2005, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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