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Topic: Upgrading the e-caller
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Rob Love
Knows what it's all about
Member # 723
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posted December 06, 2006 09:24 AM
I would just like to say thanks to Bill Martz for his generosity and customer service.
I had a WT caller and decided to upgrade to a new model. I called Bill and being a prior customer there was a good discount for upgrading to the new caller which has many great enhancements over the old model. My favorite things about it are its size, weight, and it's new remote.
Again thanks Bill for making a great product.
Rob Love
Posts: 24 | From: TX | Registered: Oct 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 06, 2006 09:26 AM
Oh dear... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted December 06, 2006 09:29 AM
Here comes the Fartz patrol.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 06, 2006 10:14 AM
Yea Ol' Bill what a guy. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 1623 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 06, 2006 10:44 AM
Damn, there were 3 post in 5 minutes Andy.... this has the potential to be an 18 page thread with multiple mental breakdowns. 
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 06, 2006 11:09 AM
Hey, easy now. I bought his DVD for $5. And that was supposed to cover the postage. The guy that sold it to me said he needed to be rid of it before it made his other videos stupid, too. I watched it clear thru. I laughed. I cried. I kept waiting to see Ron White and Larry the Cable Guy since they're in all the funniest thing I've seen in years, but they were a no-show. Whole thing made Shrek look like something off the Discovery Channel. (Not really. I'm just funnin'.)
[ December 06, 2006, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted December 06, 2006 11:36 AM
No kiddin Jason, this ones got blood and guts written all over it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 06, 2006 11:46 AM
I enjoy Bill.
He's interesting.
He makes a good product.
Anyone know when his next predator video will be available?
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Jrbhunter
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Member # 459
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posted December 06, 2006 12:41 PM
I haven't talked to him about the new video since August, I intend to speak with him soon and will ask.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 06, 2006 12:49 PM
I guess there are several folks sending road kill over to that canadian game farm again. The nice elevated and propane heated blind which overlooks the bait pile is being stocked with Bill's favorite food and drink also. I expect a new super dooper silent video to be advertised soon.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 06, 2006 02:44 PM
Rich, I never saw the first one being advertised. Where can I find that?
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Rob Love
Knows what it's all about
Member # 723
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posted December 07, 2006 04:19 AM
Interesting responses but no bloodshed.
Posts: 24 | From: TX | Registered: Oct 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 07, 2006 07:49 AM
No bloodshed, but it is damned difficult for some people to separate Bill Martz, the man, from WT, a good machine.
He has a way of ruffling feathers and seems to enjoy it. This forum is one of the few where he still has access, and the entertainment value overrides the pure informational aspect.
In short, he's welcome here, when he decides to parachute in, but we can still have a necktie party without him, as well.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
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posted December 07, 2006 06:49 PM
word on the street says that it (the video) will be ready next year.
From what I have heard, it is sposed to be good, not sure if it will be silent or not but it will be good from what I hear from my informants.
Honestly, the WT video really is one of the most informative that I have seen out there.
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 08, 2006 08:22 AM
I have been waiting patiently, expecting some kind of comment in regards to the above post? I do happen to have an opinion about that video, but I will spare our membership. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted December 08, 2006 02:16 PM
LB don't hold back I would like your opinion on that video. I thought about it, but Bill has away of turning off people to any product with his name on it.
Do tell what you honestly think of this video.
Besides I'm more than satisfied with my Big Country compaired to my WT that is 6 years old.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rob Love
Knows what it's all about
Member # 723
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posted December 10, 2006 08:24 AM
I enjoyed his video and I wish he had a better shooter in it.
Lenord: Theres your comment.
Posts: 24 | From: TX | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted December 18, 2006 07:30 AM
I'm game LB. Pass the gas can. It snowed here a couple days ago and I need the heat.
Browning, you spew your crap here and on PM, talking out your ass using Bill Martz's brain. Repeating Bill Martz's blather proves no more than you're a fool's lackey. When will you start thinking for yourself?
Rob, there are quite a few others out there who've had run-ins of various types with Martz, totally contrary to yours. In my book, WT has the worst customer service in the industry.
Browning, when you repeat one of his fictional cover stories, you're just as full of crap as Bill Martz.
As for the video. Most of us who have seen it, and I have, think it's a well-filmed and recorded production, one of the slickest out there. It shows off some his unique calling sounds too. But in the hunting sequences, it's a silent movie with only Bill's voice to tell you what sounds are being used. The fat guy misses almost all his rifle shots. Bill's "facts" are just his opinions. And he calls coyote hunters "braindead." The weird thing is about the content of the video - in all my experiences, Martz's methods for calling coyotes JUST DON'T WORK. It's total nonsense. Martz's aggressive coyote sounds are PETA sounds recorded for Hollywood, not hunting. Higgins did the best job lampooning Bill's whacked-out coyote theories in his own video. Item by item. It's a hoot! Bill Martz's coyote video is henceforth and forever known here as "Eastern Coyote Bloopers and Other Things That Make Absolutely No Sense."
Browning, think and say what you will about my "little" club, the 40 or so fine hunters and gentleman of PCOC. But our rankest novice shoots more coyotes in a single hunt than you do all season. You and Bill together don't know squat about coyote hunting and couldn't make a beer fart in a whirlwind.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
And when we discuss your lifetime coyote count - CONGATULATIONS ON YOUR SECOND ONE! Post a picture soon!
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted December 18, 2006 09:34 AM
Serious question here so don't flame me too much. Wait - I'll go put on my abspestos underwear - there - now I'm all set.
But seriously - someone fill me in, as I have not seen the video that you are talking about Gary - Rich's I mean. I have seen Martz's though.
What is it that differes from what is expoused by a lot of coyote men? Seriously? We say howl to create a teritorial response, so does he? I've only been at this for about 5 or 6 years now, and am probably missing something important and want to know. Honestly.
He howls, then he changes to a distress sound. Is that not what we are supposed to do? Because if it itsn't, then I am all screwed up.
As for killing coyotes, Gary, I live in Manchester NH. I have a big old house with lots of room. I am 20 minutes from 30,000 acres of prime forest land, an hour from 750,000 acres of mountains and forest in the White Mountain National Forest and 2 1/2 hours from the 1.500.000 Green Mountain National Forest.
You're welcome to come up and stay for a week, a month, a season and hunt with me any time. I run my own business and will just close up shop for however long you want to hunt. I can gaurantee you that your rankest novice in your club will shoot more coyotes in a single hunt than YOU will in an entire season here. And I don't care what caller you bring, what calls you bring or how you want to do it. The comparison is apples to oranges. A guy around here that takes 30 coyotes in a year is a GOD. One who takes 12 to 15 is a pretty darn good hunter. You can't sit on your deck here and shoot coyotes in your sandles. Besides the fact that your feet would freeze, the neighbors would complain. They're all liberals and hate guns.
Anyway, in all sincerity, please fill me in about what it is on Martz's video that is out of whack. And again, I cannot emphasize enough that this is a SERIOUS question.
And as for his calling sequences on that video being silent, you and I both know what would happen if he had used the audio of those sounds. People would be using goldwave to record them and put them on their e callers. I think Martz was just smart enough to know that and made sure it would not happen. I've heard the WT sounds, and they are by far a lot better than anything I have heard out there so far. JS has a few good sounds, but for the most part, if we are honest, most of the sounds on the market today are not that good. I have not heard the new FoxPro sounds and they are supposed to be excellent so let me put that little disclaimer in there.
Anyway, please fill me in. I got skunked for 8 solid hours last Thursday and was out trying to locate coytoes last night and got zero - nanda - none - responses. I could use some education I guess.
Al
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted December 18, 2006 11:53 AM
Al,
I've got to defer to Rich Higgins entirely when it comes to the coyote vocalizations. He really knows his stuff. Besides, plenty of others have got a lot to say about Martz's nonsense. They're just holding fire for the moment.
However, just for the Martz boosters out there, here are some of my experiences with the WT caller and sounds. As you already know I have a big collection of sounds, callers, and hand calls, including a programmable FRS-controlled WT.
After watching the WT video, I thought it was revolutionary. "Studio sounds - expensive loud hi-fi caller - unique coyote vocaliztions" yada yada... Sign me up. I went for it. I used the "aggressive coyote sounds" followed by one distress or another, the way Bill described in his video over a period of several months about two years ago. I called and shot a handful of alpha-types, big mean males or females that came in hackles up and ready for a fight. It was great but rare fun. During those hunts, I called no young dogs and no multiples using his "theories." On five separate instances during that time, I called singles and multiples into long-distance visual range using distress only. Then, using one or the other of WT's coyote sounds, I watched them all turn around 180 and sent them running the other way. According to that video, that wasn't what happens. Those coyotes in the video come back over and over using those sounds. That was the fuel that led me to re-evaluate the WT video. True Al, I don't live in NH, and conditions and coyotes are apparently different here.
Al, all the WT sounds I have, are open source wave files I bought from Martz. I don't need to copy, borrow, steal, transfer, re-sell, fold, spindle, or mutilate anything from Martz's collection - or Goldwave anything from his dumb-assed video. I paid $33 each for Martz's entire coyote collection and for another 30 of his animal distress sounds. It was a lot of money. The wave files I have can be played on an IPOD or FX, or stored as MP3's on a Bandit too. So I've used Martz's sounds many times in a variety of hunts in the western states, CA, OR, NV and AZ over the last two years.
Here's a great recent example of WT "luck" from a couple weeks ago. I still have a couple of Martz's invitation howls and coyote distresses on the Bandit I'm using now. On Bank 1 of my bandit, on the "5" button, there's a WT 10 mo coyote distress, and on the "8" button, directly below it, there's a rodent coaxer. From my hunting log directly, on Friday. Dec 1 of '06, in the mid afternoon, I called a single on a JS cottontail and it hung up at the 100 yard mark, looking at me through the brush. I wanted the coaxer, but hit the button directly above it by mistake, the WT 10 month coyote distress. The coyote ran off like I'd shot at him. That sound should not have run the dog off, but it apparently did, right before my eyes, and NOTHING else changed, crosswind, great camo and cover, no other movement - I was solo. The only thing I did was play a WT pup distress. Gone.
Al, that pretty much sums up my experiences with the WT sounds. I've tried them. I don't like them. I don't use them. And you know about Bill Martz pulling his bait and switch on me, and trying to rip me off already. We had that conversation. So it's true I don't like Martz personally, but I truthfully don't care much for his sounds, his "theories," or his callers either.
There are three WT callers in my club. The other guys in the club told me there are three kinds of luck with the WT - bad, worse, and awful. That's a quote. Their callers won't initialize half the time, won't play, or one of the three sets of batteries is always dead. Of the three that made it into the club, no one still uses theirs. I'm going to sell the one I have and see if I can't get some of my money back. It still has all those expensive sounds on it and I haven't used it all this year.
I also know there are plenty of other guys, like Rich Higgins, who swear by howling and barking etc. I say go for it. It works for them. I'm going to make the pilgrimage to Scottsdale soon, just for some howling lessons Higgins-style to add to my arsenal. However, I'm still skeptical how it compares to distress screaming when it comes to numbers.
At LB's last camp out in AZ, the howling crowd was well represented. There was no formal competition, but there were some excellent hunters there going head-to-head on a relatively level playing field. All of us were pounding the same over-called territory a couple of huge clubs from both Phoenix and Tucson hit regularly, and a few of us were doing it cold without the benefit of previous scouting or prior knowledge of the geograpy. There was also a whole range of callers and equipment including several hi-powered WT's in the crowd. I know both Tom and Steve brought theirs. None the less, I guess I got lucky with my cheap Sceery Jackrabbit and cheaper Johnny Stewart sounds. I hunted solo most of the weekend and did all my own calling and shooting. I came away from the weekend with 8 coyotes and 3 foxes, nearly triple(?) the next shooter. I didn't use a WT, any "studio" sounds, or a single coyote noise, but I saw a lot of game.
Now I don't think I'd do too well in NH either. It'd be pretty much out of my element. I don't have the clothes. Brrrr. You face some tough conditions there Al and you get my respect, especially for braving the weather, but also for taking a few of those big eastern coyotes I've heard so much about. But, if I did come out there to hunt, I'd still hunt the way I do now, until someone proves to me there's a better way. Here in the west, in the areas I hunt, I suspect if I were only using a WT and the Martz method of coyote broadcasting this season, I'd only have a tenth as many coyotes as I do today. 82 and counting. Martz, on the other hand, does not hunt. And that's why I think Martz, his sounds, and his video are based on his own dumb opinions and greed, and not on any successful sound hunting philosophy (lol).
Al, maybe you'd benefit from a pilgrimage to Scottsdale too, if you're going to keep howling in your repetoire. It seems to me everyone learns a thing or two when Higgins gets going.
Edit: I wanted to add - I really like Martz's Phlegming Hare sound - really. I got another big bobcat with it Friday night. It makes my teeth hurt, but that one is a great sound.
[ December 18, 2006, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Nahuatl ]
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted December 18, 2006 12:50 PM
The very first time I watched the Martz video, I said to Browning204 that Martz was targeting the alpha coyotes, and that by doing that, you were leaving the rest of the pack behind. I told him that you would never achieve any kind of numbers doing that here in NH as there are way too few family groups and they are spread out too much. The numbers just would not support that kind of approach. So that pretty much addresses my question, and again, it was a serious one. I wasn't screwing with you. I feel a bit validated LOL.
As for the sound thing, you might have those sounds, bought and paid for, but there are a lot of new guys who would not even blink at copying the sounds and using them if they could. I don't blame Martz for not putting them on the video. Not much difference than what Fox Pro does, having a propriatoary file that can only be played on a Fox Pro.
On the M1 Bandit that I have, I only have 20 sounds. All but 4 of them are from JS. The only Minaska sounds I kept on the caller were the kitten, fawn, and the lone and challange howls.
I don't do much howling here. Maybe one out of 4 stands. Mostly because I don't know enough about it. Maybe a trip to Mr. H's place would do me good, but for now, I like to stick with what works.
As for how you would do here in NH, well, I suspect you would do about the same as the rest of us. You would walk alot, freeze your arse off, get skunked more often than not, and after warming up by the fire at night with a good drink, be ready to do it all over again the next day. Not because the hunting is so good, but because there are coyotes out there and we are coyote hunters. It's what we do.
I do appreciate your response. Just keep in mind if you would, that Browning204 is you a few years ago, with his new caller and all the excitement and anticipation that brings. We all have to start somewhere but he has a lot going for him. He is a damn fine woodsman, and I think if he keeps at it, in another 20 years by the time he is my age, he will be Mr. Coyote Hunter here in NH. I kind of envy him. I wish I had got started 20 years ago, but I'll make the most of what I have left, you can count on that LOL.
Al
[ December 18, 2006, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted December 18, 2006 03:44 PM
No Bill M fan here, but those coyote agressive sounds have there place when calling agressive tendant type coyotes. I call coyotes for ADC in spring and summer and I use 90% coyote vocals and the majority are of the agressive type. I do like some of his coyote sounds and they work well. The challange pair, the coyote pup distress, the male beta challange are great sounds when used with adult coyotes.
I called with a good caller just last week one stand was a loan coyote that came to some howling and distress sounds hung up and made the shot. The other set was an area that had been called quit a bit in the past, coyote howls and pup distress did the job, but it was an adult male coyote.
I wouldn't use these sounds much in the fall or early winter unless one knows for sure that your working adult coyotes and some sounds like challange pair I wouldn't use outside of denning season, but pup in distress and loan female howls work durring the winter and will be more benefical as the winter progresses on into mating season and beyond.
Summer calling coyote vocals are tops, early fall and numbers calling some young coyote howls and distress seems to work well in areas where they hear the rabbitt blues quite a bit.
The WT caller itself is not a favorite, I like my minaska much better. Way more dependable and user friendly. Also customer service with Steve head and shoulders above the WT gang. Bill's ego is as big as they come and insulting customers or good callers is uncalled for, I think he uses it as a marketing tool in a starnge way, as some other guy has made his living doing the same ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
My .02 worth.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 18, 2006 05:12 PM
coyote whacker, who do you do ADC work for?
Gary is a friend of mine and I agree with and support most of what he has to say. I don't know Gary's history with browning 204. I do know that when Cal, Vic and I were being dogpiled at PM last July, Browning 204 wrote a post in support of us and earned an attempt to have him suspended or banned by Guess. I appreciate that.
Al....LOL
I'm sure that Bill Martz is very knowledgeable about many things other than coyotes, which is a good thing since Bill cannot tell a female coyote from a male. Seriously. Bill makes many incorrect statements about coyote behavior on the video which indicate that his opinions have developed from observing the coyotes that he had been baiting/feeding on a bait station for the two years prior to the video. Coyote behavior on carrion is very agonistic and very different from their behavior in most other contexts. Contrary to Bill's opinion coyotes do not "fight for a living", and coyotes will not "die without territory", nor is "sound quality is the most important tool of the successful coyote caller", and contrary to Bill's opinion coyotes CAN multi-task in as much as they CAN "see, smell and hear at the same time.", nor will coyotes kill a weak or sick member of their family unit because "coyotes have only two attitudes pissed off and super pissed off".
One of my favorites, "coyote callers are brain dead".
My favorite clip shows a mature male moving at an angle past the camera, the male stops and sniffs a grass bunch as Bill says" the coyote smells seagull feathers so he marks the area with urine to claim territory because coyotes don't have supermarkets." The male hikes his leg, tail straight out and urinates on the bunch, and then scratch kicks..
Bill then says "As you will see, this coyotes claim to the area doesn't mean much to the next coyote that comes along."
He then shows another mature coyote approach just as the previous one had done, stops, investigates the grass bunch then hikes it's leg, urinates on the bunch, and scratch kicks.
Bill says "As you can see the supermarket just changed ownership."
If Bill knew and understood coyotes well enough to produce a tutorial you would think that he could recognize the alpha FEMALE as she marked over her mates mark.
The video is replete with these types of errors which makes it extremely entertaining. I do enjoy the video.
Al, why don't you watch the video tonite, pay close attention to the clip I just described, you will find it at the beginning of the video in the "Coyote Behavior" segment, and then post back here as to why the second coyote is a dominant FEMALE. Bill may appreciate your "tutorial".
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted December 18, 2006 05:52 PM
Crap. A pop quiz.
I hate it when that happens.
I'll get back to you
Al
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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