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Author
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Topic: sound levels
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luckyjack
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3462
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posted June 10, 2010 11:53 AM
Even without all the schooling krusty has and with no DB meter, I could of told you most of what you just posted TA.
I wouldn't of been able to post all those neat percentages though, so you are one up on me there.
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better to be lucky than good
Posts: 41 | From: 4 sections North of Clem | Registered: Jul 2009
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 11, 2010 05:59 PM
Well I suppose I'll get this Mith out of the way first. This quote was posted by Krust.
Most if not all of my calling is done in the Dakota's or here in Mn. and there is snow on the ground or very little vegatation to hide a coyote so it makes it possable to spot a coyote a mile off. With the naked eye all you see is a spot moveing along on the snow or ice or standing out on a ridge top. With a pr. of field-glasses or the rifles scope you can pick out a coyote much easier at 1 mile.
My coyote decoy is on the lighter brown side and faded so it makes it a little tougher to pick out at a mile on a gravel road but add a little snow and give the decoy a little more color and it willbe much easier to pick out..
Here is a little vid. of a coyote decoy at one mile..
quote:
Behle once called bullshit on Tim's mile away theory, itself, claiming nobody can see a coyote a mile away
[URL=  [/UR L]]
[ June 11, 2010, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 11, 2010 06:21 PM
Ok this is the pattern I came up with its not exact or perfect but I think its close enough for calling.. Others were right and stated there are other variables to take into consideration.
I found that all the variables do is increase or shrink the size of the sound range according to the numbers I got from the sound meter.
Testing was done at 50 yds, 100 yds, and 200 yds all I was looking for is a pattern in how the sound traveled.
My caller sits about 12" off from the ground but I also tested it at 3' off from the ground and found I got more range in all directions checked with the sounds I use.
When useing different sounds the size of the egg will shrink or increase in size if the sound is louder. The sound meter picks up the higher freq. but does not tell you what they are or how high it is..
A Howl for example gives the 2nd highest reading at the beginning and the highest reading when it max's out or reaches highest freq....
More on this later...
If there is no wind or wind all it does is move the sound area in relation to where the caller is sitting.. As you will see in my sketches the sound pattern moves but not the caller.. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/CallerInfoAandB.jpg[/IMG]] 
This was a test done calling with the wind to show how much sound goes behind the caller. I could not get a reading past 200 yds due to the wind drowning out the sound.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/CallerInfoC.jpg[/IMG]] 
[ June 11, 2010, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 11, 2010 06:39 PM
This next drawing shows how most but not all the coyotes respond to the direction I'm calling to and how they come in. Most of the info is from memory and from my long book. On the coyotes that I had come in from the side was due to the caller being played in those directions.
The coyotes I have called in will come in to 200 yds. and 100 yds roughly and then either come straight in, get shot were they stood or tried to go to my down wind side if any.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/CallerInfoD.jpg[/IMG]] 
In this next drawing I'm showing the caller faceing west with a slight N-W wind. You can see were the caller is in relation to how the wind is blowing and will notice you have more sound going out farther to youre left which gives you a greater chance of calling in a coyote from that direction if one is around that area...
Like I mentione above most of my coyotes come straight in to the source of the sound and I think this also happens to the callers in the southern region but they can't see it due to vegataion.. I also have a hunch that the coyotes that back door them came from that direction to begin with..
Most guys now days call with the caller out and away from the shooters and into the wind I would think that if the caller took his E-call and placed it out in front and favored a little more into the wind and also turned the caller to face say a little more to the right the coyotes comeing in from behind ( left side) would come in more out in front and out of the scent cone..
Any way this is just a guide to give you a better understanding and nothing more so take it for what its worth. 0
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/CallerInfoE.jpg[/IMG]] 
[ June 11, 2010, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 11, 2010 10:28 PM
Luckyjack,
Like Tim did, you coulda posted whatever numbers strike your fancy, and support your theories... maybe it's your honesty that kept you from doing so.
Okay guys,
Show of hands, how many of y'all even own 20x binoculars or scopes?!?!
Tim,
I don't believe that's a mile. Prove it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Nice drawings, NOT. Again, prove it. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
This shit get stuck in yer craw, did it? Whaaaa! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Get someone, other than your wife, to verify your claims.
Let's see a picture of this supposed meter.
Prove something, don't just keep talking and talking. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I think the Moon is made of green cheese.
I think the Moon is made of green cheese.
I think the Moon is made of green cheese.
And I think the cheese came from Minnesota, can you prove I'm wrong? ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted June 12, 2010 06:22 AM
Tim nice pics but alot of this is fluff I think to prove something, what I don't know. You forget the hearing ability of a coyote and the fact that many are going to approach downwind that is a given, there also going to take the shortest route alot of the time. The main time I don't see this behavior is denning season, then many come straight into the sound or dog.
How close are you to the coyotes your calling, what terrain sits between you and those coyotes, that all will have a bearing on there approach durring "normal" calling times.
One uses an e caller to take advantage of placement of sound to get those coyotes to come into you on your terms, by pre locating, using the cover, and caller placement all have a direct effect on there approach.
I want to know where those coyotes are before I call them so the 360 spin I have never found to be needed. I could see where night hunting it would have merit as those crittersd are out and about and pinpointing location different than calling in the daylight to denned coyotes or those laying up for a mid morning snooze.
I say if you want to do the 360 do it, but coyotes have excellent hearing ability and can pin point sound very,very well.
Tell me with your sound meter at 30 ft what DB rating to you get from your atom with a jack distress and female coyote howl.
I will say I have spotted many coyotes at a mile or a shade more as well, we have open country and certain times of the year they stick out well, I use 10x steiner predator c5 binocs. When the grass is green there white patch really sticks out at long distances. Many have howled back for me to pinpoint for the airplane or to call and with soem glassing you can see them, alot of tougher when it is brown in the fall as they blend in well and the sun isn't as good as the spring/summer.
[ June 12, 2010, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 12, 2010 10:50 AM
Krust you were'nt listen again. In the video I set the camera at 10x out to 20x to show you a coyote canbe seen . Most scopes can be bought with 10x and 20x range..coyote whacker has also said he has seen them at a mile so thats good enough for me..
quote:
. You forget the hearing ability of a coyote and the fact that many are going to approach downwind that is a given
coyote whacker: Like I said in another post there are going to be variables, like the hearing of a coyote for example.. All this does is increase the size of the sound pattern its still egg shaped just a bigger egg if you add the hearing ability of the coyote into it..
yes some coyotes will approach down wind if you let them, it don't happen very often on my stands as I try to shoot them before they do..
quote:
there also going to take the shortest route alot of the time
Yes I agree, refer to picture "D"
quote:
One uses an e caller to take advantage of placement of sound to get those coyotes to come into you on your terms, by pre locating, using the cover, and caller placement all have a direct effect on there approach
Yes I agree also refer to picture "D"
One thing you need to take into account is not all the members here locate there coyotes.
I try to when I have the time but there are areas I'll go to where I did'nt locate so now I'm calling blind but do know there are coyotes around just don't know exactly where they are so I broad cast the sound to cover more of a area and get the sound out to whats there.
quote:
Tell me with your sound meter at 30 ft what DB rating to you get from your atom with a jack distress and female coyote howl.
I don't have a Atom, I have a 2030. I have'nt gotten into the sound testing of other sounds on the caller other than mouse,pigmy cottontail and female Howls that I used for the initial test..
I was also suppose to get a F-P today to do a sound test on but its raining at the moument..
All my testing is to give a caller a general idea of whats going on with the sound that his caller puts out and how somethings like wind effect it nothing more..
[ June 12, 2010, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 12, 2010 01:36 PM
Well here is a pic of the sound meter.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 12, 2010 01:53 PM
coyote whacker; I don't broadcast the sound 360 just from 9:00 to 3:00. Here is a pic of what I do and you will see I can cover a little more ground by doing so.
I went out with my son after dinner and set the caller about 30 ft. from the sound meter and ran abunch of sounds through the caller. You have proably heard most sounds so keep in mind that most all of the sounds will fluxuate up and down in scale so my readings are from the middle where the sound stays the same the most and then i took a reading at the hi end of the sound pitch (loudest)...
Mouse: 71-94
cottontail adult 95-98 (solid)
jackrabbit baby 95-100 (solid)
snowshoe hare 95-98 (solid)
Baby lamb 96-104 (solid at top end)
prarie dog 75-79
ground squirrel 78-85
Coyote female adult 96-105 (up & down)
coyote adult male 98-103 (solid)
coyote pup dist 88-97 ( up & down)
Partridge 96-99 ( solid)
coyote adult distress 88-95
wood pecker 90-97 ( up & down)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 13, 2010 07:07 AM
Tim;
Since you have a decible meter, do you take requests?? (Other than the usual ones involving a lack of sunshine) If so, I have a couple.
(1) Set up along side of a dirt road and have somebody drive a 3/4 ton pick-up by at about 30 mph.
(2) Same truck, same speed, going over a cattle guard.
While I realize that there may be a couple of varibles involved, these are two sounds (noise levels) that most western callers can relate to in terms of volume and distance. Knowing that a certain call is ** decibles doesn't tell me much. Being able to compare the call numbers to something known makes it a bit more understandable.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 13, 2010 07:29 AM
No problem Koko except we no longer have any cattle guards around here.
The sounds posted above were tested at 30 ft. and full volume and I tested some hand calls at 10 ft. so you could use one of youre hand calls for a comparison. Most of the hand calls I tested open and closed reed had a reading of 96 -98.0..
Two of my ATV gave a reading of 86.0 and 93.6.
I'll look around and see what else I could get a reading from maybe fire a couple of rifles or something..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted June 13, 2010 07:54 AM
Tim I would think volume would make up for your movement of 180 degrees when taking into account the hearing ability of a coyotes and the range they can hear sounds in.
But if it works for you then so be it.
I just know I have located coyotes the night prior setup to call the area had the caller facing west,NW and those coyotes approached from the SW so from their location to the speaker location was getting close to the other end of that 180 and they came in with no problems able to hear my offerings plain as day from 1/2 mile or a a shade more. I don't think people give coyotes enough credit on their hearing ability.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 13, 2010 08:36 AM
NO CATTLE GUARDS?????? What kind of terrible place do you live in????
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 13, 2010 08:58 AM
quote:
I just know I have located coyotes the night prior setup to call the area had the caller facing west,NW and those coyotes approached from the SW so from their location to the speaker location was getting close to the other end of that 180 and they came in with no problems able to hear my offerings plain as day from 1/2 mile or a a shade more. I don't think people give coyotes enough credit on their hearing ability.
Was there any wind from the west or northwest?? If so youre s-w side is going to be stronger than youre right side..one of the points I'm trying to get across..
I know they can hear way better than us and I know that the sound comeing straight out of the caller will carry a mile or a little more, depending on whats sounds used. So this can give you a ruff idea of the size of the sound range i show in the pic.'s
Say you go into a area to set up and call and you are not sure were the coyotes are so you set the caller up and call into one direction. Say the coyote is layed up in a draw to youre right (2-3:00) and a mile or more away and out of range of the sound cone. You take youre caller and turn it to the right and increase the sound range in that direction and get that coyotes attension. Or you could just pack up and move down the road and make another stand and call that coyote in but maybe not get a good crack at it due to the ground conditions not being as favorable as where you made youre first stand..
I'm not saying anyone has to do what i do just giveing them something to think about and just maybe it would make a difference on there stands if they did try it..
Just maybe if they have the speaker turned a little in another direction it may make a difference on how some of there coyotes come in and give them a better chance of finishing the deal..
I like to set up and use some type of structure or drainage to bring my coyotes in to where I can get them and it helps to have the caller faceing a certain direction...
You should watch some of Les Johnsons video's on TV and maybe you will see what I'm seeing..
In the ones I've seen Les is faceing a certain direction and blowing on the call. He holds his call in his right hand and is only broadcasting the sound to his left and out in front and thats where most of his coyotes are comeing from..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 13, 2010 10:36 AM
Yeah, me too! What do you mean; no cattle guards?
You can hunt those places?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted June 13, 2010 11:08 AM
I don't care how the sound goes, I just care that it goes!!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 13, 2010 11:44 AM
quote:
Yeah, me too! What do you mean; no cattle guards?
You can hunt those places?
Just before Bush left office there where some cut backs and guess what we were the first. They fired every dam one of the cattle guards we had..LOL
[ June 13, 2010, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 13, 2010 01:36 PM
The way that I heard it was that The Big O fired the cattle guards on federal land in the red areas as payback from the election but Joe Biden (Mini-O) talked him into grant money for job re-training. At that point Nancy (never had an O) Pelosi invited all of the unemployed, undocumented cattle guards to San Francisco, the sanctuary city, to join the democratic party.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 13, 2010 03:52 PM
Kokopelli,
Here's a link to some common sounds to give you a reference point for db(A) readings.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 13, 2010 06:04 PM
Thanx Krusty;
Good stuff!!!!
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted June 14, 2010 05:47 AM
One of the first things I do before I leave to go hunting is to stand outside and listen to find out what direction distant sounds are coming from. Even on a calm morning sound well flow better from a certain direction. If I can hear distant sounds coming from the west I go to places where I call in an easterly direction so the sound of my calls travel as far as possible.
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted June 14, 2010 06:23 AM
All I know is that if it has rained for 2 weeks solid and its so damn muddy you can't go anywhere and you have been stuck cleaning stuff and doing office work for the entire time, it doesn't matter much where the sound goes!
I am amazingly shit full of this weather!
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 14, 2010 06:47 AM
I know what you mean, Cal. Everyday it is either raining hard or hot and humid. Weather not fit for anything.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 14, 2010 05:35 PM
Rained out again today so I grabbed a couple of rifles and the sound meter and went out to compare the reports from the rifles..
I used the 17 Pred. in first test and a 22-250 in second.
17 Pred. 69.3 and 53.4
2nd shot 73.4 and 55.4
22-250 71.8/ 61.9
2nd. shot 61.5/ 65.2 ( got to close to the weeds)
I'm not sure on this but if the bullet is travel almost 4 times the speed of sound the first number is the crack of the bullet and second reading is the report of the rifle..???
If you go back and look at the numbers I posted for calling sounds at 30 ft. you will see that the caller is a little louder than the rifle
report. Like Randy mentioned in the pup distress post if you keep the caller playing when takeing a shot it does help some to cover up the rifle report.
For the guys useing suppressers they do help with the report of the rifle but as you see in my readings the bullet still makes a heck of a crack...
Also if you look at the meter between shots you can see how loud the wind is when blowing about 5-10 mph, plus the sound from a human voice.. Later....
[URL=  [/UR L]]
[ June 14, 2010, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 14, 2010 05:54 PM
Tim, something ain't right on the gun shot readings. We had an OSHA dude come in and test all our equipment, anything above 90 got a sign that says ear pro required. I hung several signs and I guarantee you if my pistol blasted we'd all hear it. Gun shots are a lot louder than 90db. (speaking of centerfires like the 22-250)
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