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Author
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Topic: sound levels
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 14, 2010 06:30 PM
Gotta love Google!
"A typical rifle gunshot is very loud — in the region of 140 to 170 decibels while the threshold for pain is 130 db[1]. This can be lowered to around 115 db through the use of a suppressor and subsonic ammunition."
Way to go Mr. Science! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
What does this (HUGE mistake, or possibly an improperly functioning meter), say about the validity of all the above data? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 14, 2010 06:49 PM
If you paid attension you would of known that i tested the rifles at 30 ft. not at the muzzle, "Big difference"
Also you have to take into account what cal. of rifle they tested..
From what I was told if a test is being done to determin if hearing protection is needed or more protection the sound has to be checked at the source or where the person will be sitting or working... I thought you said you where going to take youre med.'s and lay down!!!
Edit to add. To help you sleep better I'll do a test at the muzzle tommorrow..
[ June 14, 2010, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 14, 2010 07:00 PM
I copied this from the link you provided earlier
quote:
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
Now go look at the video and see what the reading is for when I was talking. Pretty close don't you think..
Oh! incase you missed it my voice measured at 50-55 at 30 ft...
[ June 14, 2010, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 14, 2010 07:28 PM
Tim,
I am paying attention!
You said "the numbers I posted for calling sounds at 30 ft," you never stated the distance at which you tested the rifle reports (and those numbers are invalid... look at how far call sounds travelled without significant loss of volume, 30 ft certainly doesn't change a rifle report).
And a voice howl is not done at "normal conversation" level, so no matter how far the meter was, it's not a valid data point.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 14, 2010 07:33 PM
Was the muzzle pointing away from you or at you? That might be the difference, have your wife shoot the gun at the decible meter while you're holding it...
Remind her that's a borrowed meter so she doesn't hit it.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 14, 2010 07:39 PM
Tim,
I just re-read the entire thread.
Nowhere do you ever mention your voice being measured at 50-55 db(A), for sure not in the first video.
Edit 2; I just watched the second, but there's no way to tell inexplicably the distance of the meter nor the rifles, and something doesn't sound right about the soft reports heard in the video.
*Edit; Your numbers show that a mouse squeak lost around 20 db(A) over 250 yards, yet you want us to believe a typical rifle loses 100 db(A) or so, in just 30 yards? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
If you think an e-caller (at a volume setting not disclosed), even if at full volume, is louder than a rifle, you really are an idiot!
Krusty
[ June 14, 2010, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 14, 2010 08:11 PM
One more time: If you watch the video at the very beginning I mention the 17 Pred for the first rifle tested with the meter set at 30 ft. If you also watch the meter as its working you will see numbers in the range of 35-45 this is the wind that its picking up, and if you listen for my voice and watch the meter you will get a reading of how loud my voice is.. about 50-55..
quote:
Was the muzzle pointing away from you or at you? That might be the difference, have your wife shoot the gun at the decible meter while you're holding it...
Tom: The meter was placed 30 ft. from me and the camera and the rifle. I aimed the rifle just over the top of the meter about 3-5 ft. when I took the last shot with the 22-250 I was aiming a little left of the meter and you will notice a change in sound cause I shot into the weeds.
I mention this to the wife and she asked if I had the meter set on auto, I said no and she replyed this may affect the reading if it was above 90. I took another look at the meter in the video and the sound bar did'nt max out plus the sound it picked up was under 90 so the readings I got are correct but I'll recheck everything tommorrow and redo...
I don't think you guys realize how much the sound is reduced when you add 10, 20, 30 ft into the picture so I ran another test with my E-caller..
Mouse distress at 30 ft. 71-94
mouse distress at 4" from caller 120-130.
Lamb distress at 30 ft. 96-104
Lamb distress at 4" from caller 125-134
As you see the 30 ft. does make a big difference...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 14, 2010 08:40 PM
I know I can hear mine or my partners rifle report over any e-caller. Guns are loud Tim.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 14, 2010 10:11 PM
Two different freq. Tom. A gun going off is at the lower end compared to a distress sound so it may seem the gun is louder, but its not.... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Edit to add: Here is the best way I can explain it Tom.
You take a Howler and make a long drawn out lonesome Howl. If I took a reading from the sound meter the second loudest part of the howl is when you first start to howl. You are lower on the scale when you start which makes it seem loud which it is. As you go up in scale the pitch is higher and also louder just as you peak out. I don't know how far a coyote can hear but by metering the howl at a longer distance the lower end of the howl will drown out but the higher pitch from the howl can still be heard. This higher pitch maybe is what triggers the coyote to howl back..Maybe this is that high C note that was talked about awhile back, not sure..
By blowing on some of the howlers I had on hand some of them produce a higher and louder note than others. And there where some that where louder on the low end of the scale and not so good at the top end..
I may look into this more or I may not...
[ June 14, 2010, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 15, 2010 04:58 AM
You know I've been going to the ear doc for a few months now and have been getting a pretty good edumacation on how sounds destroys hearing.
I also followed the OSHA dude around my shop watching the DB meter on various sounds.
Keep your day job.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted June 15, 2010 05:34 AM
TA, I have always thought it would be interesting to find out what the Db reading would be on muzzle blast using different powders. To my ears IMR 4064 sounds different than Varget in a short 243win barrel. IMR 4064 seems to have a deep low blast and Varget seems to have a louder and sharper blast. In a 6mm-223 H335 has a louder muzzle blast than BR 2015. It may be interesting to find out.
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 15, 2010 05:50 AM
Cool!!!...............We can keep Tim busy all summer. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I'd also like to know how loud a Bull Frog is if you have time.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 07:08 AM
No bull-frogs here but I could use krust as a substitute.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 08:42 AM
well I tested it again and even used the 22-250 ackley. I checked it at 30 ft. again and also at 5 ft. from the meter. I also called the company office and asked the safety director about the sound meter and he told me its sent in annualy to be checked over and to check calibration. He said there should be a sticker on the top of meter to the front side.. If you look at the video you will see it. So I don't know why OSHA has a higher reading than what I'm getting. I'll show todays test results later today.....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 15, 2010 09:00 AM
NO BULLFROGS??????
My Gawd, man; forget hunting coyotes and have Andy take you out frog gigging & collecting morel mushrooms. With a little homemade wine on the side, there is no finer meal to be had!!!!
...........and have Lance tag along with the video camera.
Maybe set some limb-lines for catfish while you're at it.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted June 15, 2010 09:17 AM
I'd like to know how loud Kelly Snores. I slept in the same tent with him. I am fully not exaggerating...he might could break the thing!!!
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 10:01 AM
Ok. I called the company that makes the sound meter. I found out I over looked something as far as checking the sound on the rifles..
Tom is correct to a certain degree, some rifles are louder than others and some are louder than some of the sounds from the E-caller.
The mistake I made was when testing a sound like a gun shot I need to have the meter set to fast mode for this, I did not and corrected it and re-tested the rifles. Later on I'll post the results..
Also while I was on the phone with the company spokesman that ***** the meters I explained to him what I was doing as far as testing the sound from the E-caller. He said what I'm doing does have merit and they also do simular when a Industrial park goes up or a city has a race-car track near by and so on. Cities/towns/ state/ county all have some sort of ordence for sound polution or how much noise is allowed..
I also asked him about the fast setting and if I need to use it for checking the E-caller and he said no its not needed for that so my findings on that part still stand..Later...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2010 10:19 AM
At one of the HM campouts in Seligman, there was a red tent and someone in that tent was snoring. What a racket! I think Kelly admitted to being the guilty party? Awesome!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 11:30 AM
I did a search for snoreing records and came up with this: quote:
I thought some of you would be interested in the contest for America's
loudest snorer especially if you're a snorer, or if you are affected
by someone in your family who snores. The snoring experts at Breathe
Right company are interested in finding the loudest snorer in America
in hopes of setting a new world record. The Guinness Book of World
Records lists Melvin Switzer of South Hampton, New England as the
record holder for the loudest snore. The company is seeking out
contestants for its "Search for America's Loudest Snorer" contest.
Participants can enter via the following easy ways - the Web site,
www.breatheright.com, a toll-free number, an e-mail, or a letter.
Official contest rules and deadline are on the site. One grand prize
winner will receive a year supply of the Breathe Right products,
$10,000 bedroom makeover, and a trip to Super Bowl XXXVII in San
Diego, including two tickets for the game, airfare and hotel.
The record is 92 dB
[ June 15, 2010, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 15, 2010 12:17 PM
quote:
I don't think you guys realize how much the sound is reduced when you add 10, 20, 30 ft into the picture so I ran another test with my E-caller..
Actually, what I didn't realize was just how much friggin' free time you have. What'd you do? Quit your ditch diggin' gig?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 01:57 PM
Can't build roads out of mudd...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 15, 2010 04:13 PM
Tim,
You are the one not paying attention...
"Measurements in db(A) are widespread and convenient but you must remember that they are a compromise and tell us nothing about the frequency content of a noise. The ear can tell a difference between a washing machine and a telephone buzzer because their sounds have a very different structure. But such different sounds may give identical readings in dB(A)."
Frequency content, among other things, is pitch!
And pitch has nothing to do with readings given in db(A).
The "timber" of a howl changes throughout the length of a vocalization, and timber is part of what comprises amplitude, and amplitude is what the big A (in db(A)) stands for.
I think you are mistakenly associating this, as pitch.
I dunno where y'all talked about audible triggers to howling, but given what I know about howling response, in dogs and coyotes, and what I understand about sound, I'd say the trigger is "resonance"... harmonic resonance to be specific.
It's not about frequency, but about how sound waves diverge from their source and blend back together as they expand and refract, and how they are blended within the ears of a canine and onward to the brain (because of "stereoscopic" hearing).
It's not just the siren, but the siren and the echo of the siren, that makes 'em howl.
But, that's a whole 'nother can of worms I don't care to open, in this context.
Other than to say that it just shows what you don't know, and that's probably why you're not sure about much of what you're saying. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Answers, in life, are often much easier to find with your eyes and ears open... and your mouth closed.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 08:04 PM
quote:
"Measurements in db(A) are widespread and convenient but you must remember that they are a compromise and tell us nothing about the frequency content of a noise.
Yes I agree and no..
"The meter can not tell you what the freq, is but it can read it" and tell you how loud it is..
If you take a open reed call and start at the bottom of the scale and work up the meter will pick up this sound and it will give you a high reading at the lower end of it and a high reading just before it tops out, (usually the highest reading)I can't tell you what freq. it is but I know its the loudest.
I also found that if you take a open reed call and just blow into it as hard as you can it will only get so loud no matter who blows it or where its placed in mouth in relation to the tone board barrel end, middle or the tip.... Some of the open reeds I've tested give the highest sound or loudest useing about the middle of the tone board.. But there are things that can change this like thickness of reed, length of barrel and dia. ect.
quote:
The ear can tell a difference between a washing machine and a telephone buzzer because their sounds have a very different structure. But such different sounds may give identical readings in dB(A)."
Yes you are correct but I'm not compareing washing machines and telephone buzzers. i"m just testing the sounds of a E-caller and hand calls for loudness and how far the sound travels and how loud it is..
Anyway I messed up of the rifle sound test and re-did it and here are the results of what it should be..
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[ June 15, 2010, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 15, 2010 08:56 PM
Tim,
What makes you believe that meter can read frequencies?
Oh, so now your an expert on how open reed calls make sound are ya... don't even go there, with ME, dude.
If you are getting an ambient reading of 70db(A), and there's no change in that from your voice, something is wrong here.
Just give up, you're only digging a hole now.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 15, 2010 09:39 PM
quote:
If you are getting an ambient reading of 70db(A), and there's no change in that from your voice, something is wrong here.
If you refering to the test I did today? Take a look at the face of the meter there are different settings for measureing different sounds at different dB. Today the meter was set up to measure the higher scale of dB's at a faster rate. In other words I can adjust the lower end cut off point at 30, 40, 50 and so on.
Example: If the wind is blowing at say 35-40 dB's I can adjust the meter to cut the wind out by moveing the dB setting up to 50 dB minimum.
If you look at the meter the setting is on 80-130 dB. Simple enough!!!
quote:
Just give up, you're only digging a hole now.
If I'm digging the hole then why are you standing in the bottom of it??? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
Oh, so now your an expert on how open reed calls make sound are ya... don't even go there, with ME, dude.
Nope not a expert. I did take two identical calls and compare them on the meter though and I may go into this later if I have time or I may not. Oh for shits and giggles I also compared youre call to some others, maybe I'll tell you how it did and maybe not..LOL
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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