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Author
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Topic: Decoys
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lupus caninus
Knows what it's all about
Member # 484
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posted January 01, 2005 04:15 PM
How many of you use decoys? Do you really think they help? What are your experiences with them. How did the critter react when it came in at it.
Do you realy think the critter responds because it thinks its an easy meal or because its courious about this thing that doesn't fit in its genetic imprint and experience of survival.
Rob
Posts: 16 | From: East TX | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 01, 2005 04:35 PM
You are asking a question that begs for a "depends" type of answer.
If you have cats in the neighborhood, or you are targeting cats, that's a good reason to use a decoy, especially if it has some movement.
In some cases, a decoy seems beneficial if you have multiple animals responding. Depends on what kind of decoy you use, a stuffed coyote will chase more coyotes than it stops, for a look.
If you are in broken cover, chances are, the coyote will never get close enough to even see the decoy, unless you hang it in a bush. I have used a black battery operated "halloween" bat, in a bush flapping it's wings, and that does seem to grab a coyote's attention. It's just, how much crap are you willing to haul out on a stand? Depends on the type of cover you are hunting, also. Hunting a brush chocked river bottom with a shotgun, you might be served by some misdirected motion, especially if you are hand calling, intermitantly.
Short answer. Most of the time, I don't bother with decoys. Not that I haven't experimented with them from time to time, but it's not a regular part of my bag of tricks.
Others may feel exactly the opposite, and that's fine too.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted January 01, 2005 06:31 PM
Decoys add another dimension to your calling fun but first you need to be able call them in. I have always felt that the quicker you get down and the quicker you start calling, the better your success is. Spending time to set out a decoy is a detriment unless you are sure nothing is watching. You spend time getting into position and you really can't afford time wandering around looking for the perfect spot to set your decoy.
On the other hand they do work depending on your setup. Coyotes are sight hounds and their sight overrides their smell and hearing. Once they get focus on your decoy they may just stop dead cold in their track or they may come on in to investigae closer. One thing I do believe is that white colors scare off coyotes more than darker colors.
If your areas are real thick and all you have is a two track to work with, a decoy will work because coyotes will use the two track and see the decoy. You'll know pretty much which direction the approach will be (most of the time).
If you have something coming to your sound, then lay off the sound and let them come on in. Let them see the decoy.
I have a real good segment of video where 2 coyotes come in to a decoy and the caller works the coyotes. The caller is in the wide open but the coyotes key in on the decoy.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 01, 2005 07:18 PM
When I hunted with a bow I used an ecaller and a motion decoy. Set up upwind in the open it would allow me the movement necessary to draw the bow.
I have video of coyotes at my feet as two Enticers flop around, The white one would trigger and startle the coyotes and the black one would trigger and draw them back. A motion decoy is an asset in thick cover. Focuses their attention on it until you can spot them and drop the hammer. A decoy will keep animals in close for long periods in front of a camera as well. We don't use them when calling to the gun.
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lupus caninus
Knows what it's all about
Member # 484
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posted January 01, 2005 07:25 PM
Thats interesting Jay, the caller was not where the decoy was but the coyotes stayed on it rather than focusing on the source of the sound.
Did they show any signs of stress once they were being "worked" or did they seem pretty much on task?
Posts: 16 | From: East TX | Registered: Dec 2004
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 01, 2005 09:00 PM
I've only recently started using a decoy. Used one on 4 days of calling now. Already though, we've collected what I consider some "extra" coyotes because of the decoy. Mostly instances as Leonard mentioned, of multiples. We've had a few times already, where after killing one of them, a running mate stayed motionless staring at the decoy rather than leaving, and got killed too.
Most of the singles we've called to the decoy so far have died standing statue still staring at it. I like it when they do that.
The last one, is a good example of what we have been seeing. I was on the camera, my partner running the rifle, to my right. Coyote came in from behind us on my left. Heading straight for the decoy. I had to make a major shift with the camera and tripod to get on him. He saw me moving and flared off. Circled around front and stopped where he had some elevation. When he stopped, he didn't even look my way, even though he had flared off because he saw me moving. He stopped up there and just stared at that decoy. For about 3/4 of a second, before my partner killed him.
Like I said, have not been using a decoy very long at all yet. Frankly, I've always thought they were more PITA than they were worth. But, I'm really starting to change my mind about that.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted January 01, 2005 09:33 PM
Im luke warm on their use too, I tried it for a season once, and found no dramatic benefit. You have to call the coyote to the stand before a decoy comes into play, and by the time a coyote can or does see the damned thing, you could have all ready shot it, or should have.
I see lots of guys on the net rave about decoys, so some must be having great success using them. I still stand by my creed, the best decoy you have, is the one that makes the noise:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted January 01, 2005 09:47 PM
Lupus. The caller was 15 yards behind the decoy and about 10 feet to the right. The caller was sitting on a stool. We pretty much knew where the coyotes would come from since I had called the spot several times before. We set a featherflex rabbit on a stool turned upsidedown. A feather was clipped to the nose of the rabbit and was fluttering in a slight breeze. The shooter was in camo clothes wearing a facemask sitting to the left of a bush so he could see the approach so he was basically in the wide open. I was 20 yards behind with the camera and standing in front of some tall tree/bush things. The truck was 15 feet from me.
I'm with AZ-Hunter on this one and it is basically what Higgins kinda said too. By the time the decoy comes into play, the coyote should have already been dumped.
Like I sad the decoy just adds another dimension to the fun. I have used a Flambeau turkey decoy and it's fairly big for desert decoys. When the coyotes see the turkey the abruptly stop and bristle up. It's pretty funny.
I have also use black helium baloons tied to a string and heavy washer. I tape a streamer or two of crepe paper to add additional flutter. This only works in calm conditions. at the end of the day we cut the string and take bets on shooting the baloon.
Guys that use dogs also take the attention off the caller and the coyotes focus on the dogs (decoys)
The decoys do take some of the pressure off the caller in some situations and allows movement you would otherwise not get away with.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 02, 2005 11:03 AM
Cats yes.
Coyotes no.
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jeff Thomason
Knows what it's all about
Member # 440
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posted January 02, 2005 05:57 PM
Decoys can really benefit your setup alot of times, especially when using a mouth call. There have been plenty of times when I was calling, and had coyotes "bust" me. After I saw them trying to figure out what I was, they would pan over and see the decoy. It seemed to make them forget I was even there. That was all it took to get on them and make the shot. I have had 2 coyotes spook when they saw the decoy. But that is out of probably a hundred or more. They will usually stop and try to figure it out, or put a stalk on it. Either way you should get em. Another reason we like them so much is for filming. Like Jay said in a previous post, we have to break all the rules to get good footage. This is just another way to minimize the chances of a coyote busting the cameraman. So I guess my answer is yes, what is it gonna hurt.
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Texas Predator Pursuit
Day/Night Hunting Video w/50 hunts
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Posts: 43 | From: Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted January 02, 2005 09:16 PM
quote:
by the time a coyote can or does see the damned thing, you could have all ready shot it, or should have.
Ditto AZ, I manage to do all right with out them. The next step after a decoy is to put a foothold trap next to it. You will always get a standing shot then. LOL
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jeff Thomason
Knows what it's all about
Member # 440
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posted January 03, 2005 08:28 AM
I guarantee you that half of our footage is so good, because of the decoy. If we were out just killing, I agree they are not that important. But again, those that do sneak in on you are the ones you will get because of the decoy.
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Texas Predator Pursuit
Day/Night Hunting Video w/50 hunts
www.texaspredatorpursuit.com
Posts: 43 | From: Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 03, 2005 08:55 AM
I agree with both AZ,and Q.I really don't think there is a huge advantage to having a decoy when calling coyotes.The key is to make lots and lots of calling stands.I believe the more simple you make it the better off you are.A couple of hand calls,my shooting sticks,Rifle,and rangefinder.That's about it for me.Carrying back a couple coyotes to the truck is enough for me,I don't want to have to pack electronic callers,decoys etc. back too.GOOD HUNTING C.O
[ January 03, 2005, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 03, 2005 11:28 AM
When I've used decoys, there has been very little indication that I couldn't have got the job done without them. On most of my setups the coyotes will most likely be shot(at) before the decoy becomes a factor.
Anybody want to bet that this one won't work. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
http://www.outsidepride.com/store/catalog/Prowler-Owl-p-16354.html
Dennis
[ January 03, 2005, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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lupus caninus
Knows what it's all about
Member # 484
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posted January 03, 2005 12:32 PM
So what the consensus seems to be is that coyotes react more with curiosity rather kill mode. Agree? Disagree?
So by adding something visual in the mix the sneaky coyote is more likely to come out of the cover to investigate this new critter.
Ok how about bobcats. What are your thoughts on them and their reactions to decoys? Do they have the same reactions as coyotes by just curiosity or are they looking at it like its dinner?
Posts: 16 | From: East TX | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 03, 2005 01:07 PM
quote:
adding something visual in the mix the sneaky coyote is more likely to come out
That's not a given. As many times, as not, I have seen coyotes hang up BECAUSE of the visual. I think it depends, somewhat, on how far away they are, when they see it.
As I said in my first post, I basically agree with some of the others. By the time your coyote is within shooting distance, he is more easily stopped for a shot with a lip squeak than any visual that is flopping on the ground. Especially if the cover is such that you only see the upper part of a coyote. When he drops out of sight, at the shot, that should give you a clue as to how much he was able to see your decoy.
Placing a decoy out in a clearing has it's own challenges. Most people will tell you that coyotes are reluctant to enter an open space. Well, I have seen them cross open ground enough to know that the conventional wisdom on that issue isn't always accurate. The mere act of placing a decoy out in a clearing does not guarantee that the coyote will advance, where he might not have, if it wasn't there.
edit: a tip I might offer is to avoid the flopping rabbit in the middle of a clearing. I believe it is far more effective to place your visual aid very close to one side, selected for ease of shooting and favoring the wind. I have seen many times where an animal will cross the clearing, not to approach an animal in the middle, but to skirt the edge of cover. It just seems to be more agreeable than smack dab, out in the middle.
What is true, is that sometimes a decoy will hold a coyote's attention while you shoulder the gun. If there is any other method, rather than changing a sound with your remote, that will focus (his) attention away from you, I'm not aware of it.
Decoys are another tool in the shed, but in some places, they are almost worthless for average stands and average kills. The exception, of course, (has already been mentioned), when you want a lot of coyote action in front of a camera, and that's a different game, different objective than merely killing coyotes.
Still, a decoy is a great tool for working cats. No doubt about it.
Good hunting. LB
[ January 03, 2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 03, 2005 01:27 PM
Lupus, I don't believe there is a concensus that coyotes have only a curiosity attraction to decoys. You should get a good moving decoy just to see how a coyote approaches it. They regard it like the opportunists that they are. If it is a bird or an animal and they can catch it , it should be good to eat. If they can't eat it, they can at least pee on it or roll on it. My purpose for using a decoy is to lock the coyotes attention so that I can do things with a camera or a bow that I probably couldn't do if their attention was focused on me.
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Jeff Thomason
Knows what it's all about
Member # 440
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posted January 03, 2005 02:25 PM
Hey Lupus, We have gotten 3 cats on video this year with the decoy. 1 of them crossed more than 100 yards of wide open pasture. Another more than 300(316 according to the rangefinder) The 3rd was only 40 yards, but they were all killed within 15 yards of the decoy. They seem to be very interested in the decoy. This decoy is the new "mini" extreme from advanced decoy. It has less movement than the original predator supreme. Wait, just thought of another. That is 4 this year all came to the decoy! They will all be on Vol. 2.
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Texas Predator Pursuit
Day/Night Hunting Video w/50 hunts
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Posts: 43 | From: Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 03, 2005 04:43 PM
Don't forget, people. Some of these replies are from those that are hunting closed, private land, where the animals have not been hunted and show no fear. If you are where everybody has a rifle and stops to shoot at any coyote caught out in the open, you may see a distinct reluctance for those animals to venture into the open just because they see a little wiggle. Same as when you don't use a decoy, in other words.
We all have our own experience to draw from. Personally, I don't usually use a decoy, but I would never tell somebody that it won't help. It MAY help; everyone should evaluate their situation and decide if it is worth the effort.
Example. I hunted with someone that used a wooden box about three feet long, with an automotive battery inside, and a windshield wiper motor, and a rabbit on top that whirled at a pretty good clip, with a lot of noise, too. This thing weighed probably fifty pounds, and was remote controled. This is the best part. He used it at night, set up at least 100 yards from the vehicle!
I wouldn't say it was a total waste of time, but the actual value has to be limited. I did see a couple animals approach in the direction of the "machine" but there again, you do not want that, at night. The animal shouls be looking at the light, where the shooter is located, not 100 yards away.
So, do what makes you happy, use your lucky bandana, keep your fingers crossed, or whatever turns you on.
I think another thing that can be said is that you will see more value when hunting cats, than coyotes....but not always. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Another thing. We certainly do not have to have everybody agree on this issue. That's what it's all about. If the complete, unabridged book had already been written, we wouldn't have anything to talk about, would we?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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