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Author
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Topic: 10 gauge 4 buck loads???
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Steve C
Knows what it's all about
Member # 510
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posted November 10, 2008 06:14 PM
Does anyone have any recommendations for a 10ga 4 buck load? This may be a total nube question... when you load buckshot loads, you load by weight, not by pellet count right??? I bought some nickel plated 4 buck and regular. Found out there is a substantial difference between the two when it comes to weight per pellet.
BPI #4 Buck "Super Buck" 226.1 grains (10 pellets)
BPI #4 Buck Nickel Buck 201.3 grains (10 pellets)
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CSVCA http://www.csvca.com
Posts: 82 | From: El Monte, CA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 11, 2008 06:15 AM
Steve,
Look here http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=16
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 11, 2008 07:42 AM
Steve,
I used plain #4 buck, with Blue Dot Powder and a #40 bushing. But it's been a few years since I loaded them, and I didn't write down the type of hulls used or the number and thickness of the wads. Both of which are needed to create your own loads.
Your best bet would be to look and see what you have on hand, or what is locally available, then search a few reloading manuals for a load that you can make. Shotguns aren't as finicky as rifles.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Steve C
Knows what it's all about
Member # 510
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posted November 11, 2008 12:18 PM
I bought (sp?) the buckshot loading III manual. It does give a decent amount of load data. However, only two loads for 2oz and better. If I'm bringing the heat, what's the point of mediocre loads??? I'm almost better off getting a 12 that shoots 3 1/2. I was hoping I can get some feedback from some guys that are after what I'm after... fur... not feathers. That's what my over/under is for.
Anyone have experience with roll crimping??? I'm having a hard time getting consistent results. I followed the directions carefully and still not getting the results I wanted. Any help would be greatly apppreciated.
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CSVCA http://www.csvca.com
Posts: 82 | From: El Monte, CA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 11, 2008 01:32 PM
Steve C,
Ballistics products have wads that come with no slits. You make your own slits in order to customize the patterns that your gun throws. As for the mighty ten gauge surpassing the performance of a 3&1/2" 12 gauge, all I want to say is "Good Luck".
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2008 02:03 PM
I'll take "Good Luck" for $100, Alex.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steve C
Knows what it's all about
Member # 510
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posted November 11, 2008 02:53 PM
First of all, why are Rich and Leonard weighing in with comments that do not help? Do you just want to hijack this thread? Maybe I'm overreacting... I started this thread hoping to get some insight from some members that might have experience in loading for the 10.
When it comes to 12 vs 10, I really don't need to go there. Anyone who reloads knows there are too many factors that go into working up loads. I'm sure most will agree that reloading can produce superior loads over factory. If the difference was black and white, why are they still putting out the 10???
If someone came to me and said they had no interest of reloading, I would hands down recommend a good 12 that can handle 3 1/2s. There are far more options to choose from.
However, if someone enjoys reloading, they can tailor loads to meet their needs and should get whatever they want.
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CSVCA http://www.csvca.com
Posts: 82 | From: El Monte, CA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 11, 2008 03:01 PM
quote:
As for the mighty ten gauge surpassing the performance of a 3&1/2" 12 gauge, all I want to say is "Good Luck".
Rich, You need to step away from your little Pea Shooter, and step up to the big bores.
Your little 12 can't compete with a 10, and it will beat the hell out of your shoulder if you try.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2008 04:59 PM
Steve C.
Now, here's a real FIRST OF ALL, for you, Amigo. You have not been appointed the frickin' hall monitor around here, so you can kiss my ass.
You have a lot of nerve. Who the fuck do you think you are? And, exactly where do you think you are?
Anybody (ANYBODY, including Leonard and Rich) has the right, and the privilege to respond to any question, in any way they choose, whether you believe it to be useful, or not. I specifically point out at any opportunity, that one does not have to stay on topic, and hijacking a thread is encouraged.
Now if you don't like it, or it irritates you to have some old fart make a comment you find useless, that's too fucking bad.
God, do I hate control freaks! I hope that it isn't ME that is overreacting, but you had better adjust your attitude a lot if you hope to continue as a member of this community.
I can't be any more clear. I am not in the mood for your disrespect. Get yourself lost. And, don't feel that you need to respond because that button won't work for you any more.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted November 11, 2008 07:29 PM
I knew THAT was coming!! "First of all..." LOL
Anyhow....did someone say 10 gauge reloading? I happen to be a 10 gauge reloader and my shoulder has been known to show it. I've patterned more than I would want to admit.
Rich pointed you to the best place on the net for 10 gauge data. Ballistic Products. I have a few of their manuals including the mighty 10, buckshot reloading, and hevy shot reloading. You should pick them up if you want to get serious about it.
I settled with 1 5/8 oz hevi shot #B with Alliant Steel powder. There are a few lead BP loads over 2 oz. Look at load numbers 60320 & 60316, which I have patterned both.
I load mine by hand without a press. I drop my powder, but the rest is by hand due to the inconsistancy of dropping buckshot pellets. And yes, I roll crimp. Here are some pictures. You need a roll crimping tool like the one pictured. It takes a LOT of practice to get it right. Once I started using my drill press, it got much easier and they got much better looking. Take an empty hull and practice. If you mess up, cut off the crimp and practice again until you don't have enough plastic left. The best tip I can give is to give about 5 or 10 seconds of light pressure on the hull mouth with the spinning crimp tool to let the tool and the plastic heat up. Then lower to finish the crimp. You have to learn the feel for the right roll crimp.
The worst part about reloading buckshot is the time. I love to reload, but the time it takes me is almost not worth it to me. I know I am a bit anal about my methods, so that doesn't help the cause much. LOL The next worst part is the cost. Whoever said you save money by reloading was full of crap.
Not sure that was helpful, but if you have a specific question, ask and I will see if I can help.
Joel
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2008 08:32 PM
That's pretty good info, Joel. Especially about spinning that crimper until it's warmed up.
The thing I wonder about, by hand, is how much wad pressure you wind up with, and how do you know, and is it consistant?
Good hunting. LB
Gotta wonder! Poor old Steve calls and writes; can't figure it out, asked if he pissed me off, said he wasn't out of line, and then calls me an ass. Okay, Bucko. Sorry about it, but no you can't, yes you did, yes you were, and that wasn't very smart, either. Adios MF.
[ November 11, 2008, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
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posted November 11, 2008 09:01 PM
I load my 10 gauge shells with T shot, much in the same way that Joel does. Of course, this is for goose hunting. Very often, we have coyotes come into our spread and the load seems to do a good job on them.
The question I have is: How come everytime I type fu*k and tell all of you mother fu*kers to go fu*k yourselves it gets edited? However, when Leonard types it, it comes across clear as a bell?
Posts: 298 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 11, 2008 09:35 PM
Not true. I have no special permissions.
Another trouble causer, huh! ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Ve haf veys.
Good huntng. LB
But, Crikey. Former member #510 joins a very exclusive club. Congrats!
[ November 11, 2008, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 12, 2008 05:48 AM
Tim Behle,
I have owned and tested three different 10 gauge shotguns. Ten gauge #4 is parked in my gun cabinet, but I haven't shot that one much. My real ten gauge education came when I owned a Browning BPS ten gauge. My patterns were no better with any of those ten gauge guns than I was getting from a twelve. I called Mark Banser. You remember Mark Banser? (The "shotgun specialist" Tim.) I ordered a special choke tube that Banser made for me, and shot a few patterns on paper. My sure kill range was no longer with the ten than I can get with a properly tuned twelve. I called Mark Banser and told him my findings. Know what he said? "We are finding the same thing out here" is what he said. And further more Tim Behle------BITE ME!!!!!!!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted November 12, 2008 06:54 AM
"The thing I wonder about, by hand, is how much wad pressure you wind up with, and how do you know, and is it consistant?"
When I first started out, I was concerned about that as well. After some reading, the conclusion was that modern loads with modern wads and powders do not require wad seating pressure. Just make sure the wad is firmly against the powder.
All Lymans loads from their recent volume were done with 20-40 lbs. of pressure. Some guys actually suggested that if not using a press, to use a bathroom scale and turn it upside down to get consistent wad pressure. That was too much for me, so I just use a dowel rod and leaned my upper body weight on top of it on the wad. My loads go BOOM and kill pretty good so it seems to be working.
Rich, I hear ya, but something about a 10 gauge is just plain cool. LOL But I can understand if your shoulder can't handle it. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
It's hard to believe all the fodder available for the 12 and absolutely nothing available for the 10 gauge coyote hunter unless you go with one of those custom ammo outfits. If a guy gets lucky he can find 10ga factory lead BB from time to time. With predator hunting all the buzz nowdays, you'd think Win or Rem would start putting out #4 buck again?
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 12, 2008 07:09 AM
Joel,
I agree. There is just something about the Mighty ten gauge that is really really cool. I would love to have a new Browning "Gold" in ten gauge. Kind of heavy to carry around all day, but the gas operated action along with the extra heft of the gun would soak up the felt recoil quite a lot. I recently coughed up the bucks for a new Beretta "Extrema 2" because I wanted to try the big 3&1/2" 12 gauge fodder, and I don't really like bruised shoulder enough to shoot very many of those big boomers out of a fixed breech gun. The lack of good factory coyote fodder for a ten gauge was one reason that I went with the twelve this time.
Good hunting
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted November 12, 2008 07:42 AM
I,ve been trying to buy an 8 guage , cause if a 12 is better than a 20 and a 10 is better than a 12, then wouldn't an 8 be best of all.Or maybe I could get a double barrel and pull both triggers at once.The point being ,some of what I have seen indicates that going to a larger diameter creates problems in shot string and density that may be difficult to solve in the larger shotguns.. Good luck.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted November 12, 2008 09:03 AM
LOL If I could get my hands on an 8 gauge and ammo, you can bet I'd probably have one.
"going to a larger diameter creates problems in shot string and density that may be difficult to solve in the larger shotguns"
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. I may just be misunderstanding you. But it looks like you meant (for example) the 10 has problems over the 12 in shot string/density? If so, I think you might have it backwards. The 10 probably has the better shot string between the two, which is one of the reasons why 10 gauge believers tout the benefits of the larger diameter over the 12. The pattern from a 12 vs a 10 may not LOOK much different on paper (Rich's argument). However, people will argue that pellet flight and energy is the difference. I'm no ballistician, but that logically makes sense to me. More pellets from the 10 hit target at closer to the same time, whereas, many pellets are strung out behind in the 12 pattern. They all get there eventually (hence the nice neat pattern on a pattern board). How's that for scientific explanation! LOL
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 12, 2008 09:40 AM
6mm284 and Joel Hughes,
In the past several years, some shotgun maker's have started back boring 12 gauge barrels to shorten shot strings and improve pattern density. Browning was the first to do this I think. In my way of thinking, short shot strings are a bigger deal when shooting passing waterfowl than it is with coyotes. At any rate, it has become evident during recent pattern testing that degree of choke restriction plays a larger part in pattern density than bore diameter. The larger number of pellets in a 3&1/2" ten gauge was an advantage when shooting steel shot that does not deform like lead shot does. When shooting large charges of lead shot through a tight choke, the ten did not give a longer sure kill range, just more flyers in the pattern. The same was true with the 3" magnum, and more recently the 3&1/2" magnum 12 gauge. Since the recent arrival of shot made with various tungston mixtures that are harder than lead, I am beginning to see denser patterns. I still only see an approximate ten yard increase in "sure kill" range on coyotes. I read a few tales of 80-100 yard "kill em dead" shotguns, but my B.S. meter pegs out every time I read those claims. Sure you can kill a coyote at those ranges with #4 BUCK or Hevi-shot T's if you are lucky enough to have a pellet or two strike the kill zone. I just don't believe in Hail Mary shots like that I guess.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 12, 2008 11:35 AM
Damnit, I am being vilified and condemned on monster for banning a poor innocent snot mouthed member. They hate me; call me a self stroking cunt! The new King Hell Dictator. No respect, whatsoever! And, I'm old, a senior citizen, need a boyscout's help to cross the street!
Famous movie line, Patton....."I wished I kissed the sonofabitch".
Oh well, back to court. More about that later.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 12, 2008 02:42 PM
Leonard,
Maybe we should invite tough guy Gargoyle over here, just to see how long HE lasts.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted November 12, 2008 03:50 PM
Joel,I think Rich said what I meant,, just shooting more shot does not guarantee a better pattern from a ten over a twelve.
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted November 12, 2008 04:57 PM
I have'nt shot a ten gauge in almost 15 yrs. When i had mine i never tested the pattern just took it out and killed with it..
I still know a few goose hunters that will take the 10 over a 12 any day for geese..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted January 12, 2009 05:08 AM
Not sure how I missed this thread back when it was active. ???
Joel, could you reccomend a source for factory loads in #4 buckshot? I've found OOB but no #4. As little use as my Browning 10 will get in a season, I hate to dive into reloading for it!
Also, any reccomendations on a choke? I plan on ordering one this week sometime.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Joel Hughes
SPECIAL GUEST
Member # 384
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posted January 12, 2009 07:20 AM
There is no factory #4 buck available in the 10 gauge. It was made some time ago by Winchester, and I even shot a few coyotes with it, but eventually ran out. OOBK is readily availabe, but in my opinion is not a great choice.
Option #1 for the non-reloader is Federal Premium buffered lead BB. It can be found at Midway and elsewhere. That's as cheap as you will get without reloading, at around 2 bucks a pop.
Option #2 is the expensive High Density stuff in size BB, from Fed, HeviShot or Rem. You can get it from Midway as well, but for about 4 bucks a pop. I hear there's a refund on this stuff, but who cares, I ain't paying 4 bucks for a factory shotgun shell.
Option #3 is going custom. Here are two options for that route: http://www.pcammunition.com/ and http://www.sportingammo.com/
I have not used them myself, but I know someone who is happy with what they have gotten from pcammo. I would love to hear more from someone who has shot some coyotes with either, though.
As far as chokes, I can only reccomend what I have used. I have used factory chokes, TruLock and Patternmaster. I ended up using, and would recommend TruLock. Call George and ask him. He is not shy to tell you what you need. He will send one to you and you can pattern with it. If you don't like it, he will actually trade you (free) until you're happy. That is some good customer service right there. And they are affordable.
I have also heard great things about Terror Chokes in the 10 bore, but have no experience with them.
Joel
Posts: 145 | From: texas | Registered: Aug 2004
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