|
Author
|
Topic: Finally sent it off......
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 19, 2012 03:52 PM
Well I finally sent my .22-250 Remington off for a rebarrel. It's going to wear a 25 inch Shilen Stainless matte finish barrel chambered in .22-250 Ackley Improved with a 1 in 12 twist.They said it should be done sometme in June.(worst case)
Bought some Lapua .22-250 brass to fireform and just ordered some Redding .22-250 Ackley Improved dies.
So things should soon start coming together....
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 19, 2012 04:03 PM
Good deal.. Are you getting the bushing neck dies????
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
|
posted February 19, 2012 04:29 PM
Completed by June is perfect for having most of the summer to work up a load and be ready for fall.
What bullet you planning on using?
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 19, 2012 05:47 PM
Tim, No I ordered the deluxe 3 die set.
Lonny, Yeah my thoughts exactly.
I'm thinking either the 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip or the 55 grain Berger Match, And I have some 52 grain Berger Match bullets to fireform with....
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 19, 2012, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted February 19, 2012 08:55 PM
You sending it straight to Ennis, TX or to a smith?
I grabbed mine back out of the safe and thought real hard about having the factory tube punched, just to fire form, then sending it back for a real barrel. But I started hunting with it some and it's back to killing everything I point it at...
Maybe next year.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 19, 2012 11:04 PM
Tom,
I'm having Match Grade Machine out of St.George Utah do the work.They've done a .17 Ackley Hornet and a .17 Tactical for me and I've been pleased with both of them so might as well stick with them..Great people to work with and they do great work at a fast turn around....
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
|
posted February 23, 2012 07:02 AM
UTcaller, curious as to why you went with 1-12 and not 1-10 or 1-9 to better work with heavier bullets with the AI chambering? I thought most went to AI offerings to better push larger bullets in the caliber? Just wondering.
--------------------
This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 23, 2012 09:02 AM
Coyote whacker,
I've thought alot about different barrel setups to rebarrel to.I really want to shoot the medium weight bullets with this setup(55-65 grain bullets).And shoot them at a fairly fast speed(3700-3800+ fps)if possible.That was my main reason for this setup. If I would have wanted to shoot the heavier bullets I probably would have went with the .243 win,.243 AI, or 6mm I guess.But I really like what Leonard has said about his 22-250 Ackley and I'm hoping I get the success he's had.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 23, 2012 10:13 AM
One thing I consider to be valid, the faster twists seem to shorten barrel life and if you don't need it, why get it?
The purpose of the twist is to stabilize the bullet. You can stabilize a heavy bullet in a .224" bore by increasing the twist and dealing with increased throat erosion. Or, in the case with increased capacity when you blow out the shoulder, by increasing the velocity which will increase the RPM, enough to stabilize the bullet.
The reason I get accuracy from a 1X14" twist and a 65 grain bullet is because of the speed; 3925fps from a 28½" barrel. And this is why it has lasted so long.
I think a 12 twist is a fair compromise.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 23, 2012 12:31 PM
Barrel wear is caused by a number of things, higher burn rate of powder, bullets with a longer bearing surface, abbrasive powders and heating up a barrel with a long period of shooting..
When you look at a barrel twist rate chart it will give you a few numbers for what weight of bullet you plan to use. A twist rate that falls in the middle of a list is usally your best choice incase you decide later to go to a little heavier or lighter bullet.. Another thing to take into account is the size of case you willbe useing in relationship to the cal. used.. With a case thats at the top end in size you can get by with a little slower twist than whats recondmended due to the larger case haveing a little extra horse power to get the bullet moveing and stablelized as it leaves the barrel..
Useing a smaller case like a 221 F.B. for example you have to stick with the twist that is reconmended for the bullet you plan to use with very little room to go up or down in bullet weight if the weight of bullet or type dose'nt do what you wanted it to do...
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 23, 2012 04:32 PM
I had to read the above very carefully as I thought for sure I would disagree with something. Wonder of wonders, I think I can agree with most of it, without quibbling, although it is worded somewhat different than what I'm used to; I haven't been to Minneesota in a long time and there is a slight language barrier.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 23, 2012 04:43 PM
quote:
I haven't been to Minneesota in a long time and there is a slight language barrier.
I've never been to Cali. and I believe your correct.... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted February 23, 2012 04:57 PM
I'm still contemplating a faster twist to shoot higher BC bullets. Range is a given but the wind can be a bugger.
But in a hunting gun, I like ElBees point and shoot method.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
|
posted February 23, 2012 05:17 PM
i was gonna ask the same ? as coyotewhacker but don't have to now. i would personally go with a 1-10
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 23, 2012 05:35 PM
I didn't see the need to get a 1-10 twist for 55-65 grain bullets was my thinking. If I planned on shooting 75 grain and up bullets I would have got a .244 cal. Why shoot a .224 caliber at 3300-3400 fps when I could shoot the .244 at 3500-3600 fps.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted February 23, 2012 06:03 PM
"I didn't see the need to get a 1-10 twist for 55-65 grain bullets was my thinking. If I planned on shooting 75 grain and up bullets I would have got a .244 cal. Why shoot a .224 caliber at 3300-3400 fps when I could shoot the .244 at 3500-3600 fps."
----------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly! P.O. Ackley learned many years ago that you can only shoot a certain weight of bullet to a certain speed in any given caliber. If you wish to shoot that same weight of bullet faster, you must shoot it out of a larger bore diameter. There are a growing number of people who are still trying to prove science wrong. Minnesota has a few of those kind of folks, and I do believe that one of em hangs out here. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted February 23, 2012 06:12 PM
A .224 cal 75gr A-max has a BC of .435 the 75gr .244 V-max has a BC of .330
I like the 75 V-max in my 243AI but my 1/9.25 twist still shoots the 105 A-max with a BC of .500
For hunting it ain't gonna matter and I don't even know if it really matters to me but I like the opportunity to shoot the highest BC bullets I can when I'm shooting at range.
I just keep remembering DAA's post of a 1000 round 22-250 barrel that was 1/8 twisted. That's not very rounds for a gun that has to be fire formed as well.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 23, 2012 06:44 PM
My thoughts, exactly. And, I believe the VLD bullets and high pressures and fast twist are the cause of the short barrel life. I don't have Dan's money so my barrels need to last a few seasons. Another thing, those bullets do not kill well with coyote size animals, they tend to zip on through like a solid. So they tell me?
The trend to fast twists is a little baffling to me? I think it is perceived that fast is better, or something, but it is only a solution if you are driving those long bullets with short bearing surface. Otherwise, standard twists have been around a long time and there is nothing wrong with factory established twists, for the most part. My 25'06 has a 1 in 13 twist and is great for 75-100 grain bullets. The only other selections are 117 and 120 which are really deer bullets and still that twist is adequate.
I do not like 8 and 8.5 twists but that's what I have on the 243AI that Cary Rifle Works built for me. Of course, it's supposed to be a thousand yard target gun but actually, sees more use at night with lighter hunting type bullets. I kinda wish I had requested a 10 twist, to be quite truthful. But, it's okay from the truck, as is.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 23, 2012 08:04 PM
quote:
My thoughts exactly! P.O. Ackley learned many years ago that you can only shoot a certain weight of bullet to a certain speed in any given caliber. If you wish to shoot that same weight of bullet faster, you must shoot it out of a larger bore diameter. There are a growing number of people who are still trying to prove science wrong. Minnesota has a few of those kind of folks, and I do believe that one of em hangs out here.
There you go Rich talking about something you know nothing about again...
You can take most any large case and neck down to take a smaller dia. bullet and push it beyond any vel. listings in all reloading manuals.. Rick Jamison proved it many times and believe he holds a few bullet speed records... Most of the cartridge load combo's used is'nt practical for hunting as barrel life is pretty short but can be done none the less..
The bullet design and jacket thickness will determine what bullets will work and which won't at high vel.s and you also have to match the twist to the bullet as well..
Semi VLD or VLD bullets is were you will run into trouble, they are designed only to go so fast then they go poof. Been there many times..
Most VLD won't go much faster than 3500 fps. but in some case they have gone faster till the throat gets a little rough, usually after 200 rounds has been down the barrel..
As for your last remark I have never been a heavey bullet fan, I like to use a weight that falls some where in the middle and shoot it as fast as I can with good accuracy. Example: of the 17 cals they go from 20 gr. to 37 gr. and I use the 30 gr. bullets. They work well for me on fox and Mn.coyotes.. For the 22 cal. you have 35 gr. up to 77 gr., and I prefer the 52 gr A-Max or 52 gr. Sierra. A 243 has bullets from 55 gr. up past 100 gr.'s, I like the performance of the 58 or 60 gr. bullets...
IMO a good coyote killing bullet should be moveing along at a minimum of 3700-3800 FPS. and nothing slower unless you are shooting at 100 yd coyotes...
I have to admitt I would love to shoot one of the 22 cal. heavey weights on coyotes if I could get them to go faster than 3800 fps. and they would come apart inside of a coyote at 500 plus yards, but at the moument its not going to happen..
Bullet design, weight,speed, flight time is what kills more coyotes.............
[ February 23, 2012, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 23, 2012 09:09 PM
Those requirements are not difficult, Tim. Except for staying inside, which is not in the cards.
And, why would you need it? I mean, are you so adverse to having two holes in a hide? You know, with the time of flight involved, a coyote can move on you when using a 17 and a bad hit is real trouble with a 30 grain bullet.
I think you are better off limiting your 17 Predator to less than 350, max. Do you have some estimates on results beyond 250? No cripples, no exits, no shit?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 23, 2012 09:46 PM
I agree. It's been my experience with the hot 17's that they are an effective and consistent coyote Killer out to 250-300 yards max.
Good hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted February 23, 2012 10:21 PM
quote:
Another thing, those bullets do not kill well with coyote size animals, they tend to zip on through like a solid. So they tell me?
Simply not true in my limited experience. I have killed several coyotes this year with a 75 grain A-Max running 3330. All except one have dropped in their tracks and I guess I can't expect to kill one shot in the leg. A few in the 3-400 yard range. Get exits sometimes, some ugly, most not. Definately not anything like a FMJ.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 23, 2012 10:57 PM
quote:
Those requirements are not difficult, Tim. Except for staying inside, which is not in the cards.
And, why would you need it? I mean, are you so adverse to having two holes in a hide?
It depends on how big the hole is comeing out. More damage to the hide less money it will bring and more time involved to fix it when I could be doing other things.. A bullet going in and staying inside is putting all its energy there where it should be. A bullet going through and through is takeing some of the energy along with it when it comes outs which can equal some runners and lost coyotes...
Sure everyone gets a bad hit from time to time, it even happens to me. But from hunting with others here at home I see more coyotes run off from bad hits with the larger cal.s than I see from what cal.s and bullets I use and all of us roughly shoot the same number of coyotes from year to year and they just have a higher run off avr. than I do.. Not saying anything I use is better than anothers, just saying I have less problems is all.. Another thing you may not believe is I don't have very many bad hits from year to year, I've been pretty lucky when it comes to shooting coyotes. I don't get excited very much when I see one and I pick my shots when I feel its the right time to pull the trigger.. In a good year everyone here gets alot of practice, some get better at it and some just stay the same..
I agree with what Chad said if I'm useing a 17 rem. but I have taken coyotes with it a little farther out though.. The 17 Pred. I get a little more milage with it and with the 20x47 L I get about the same milage as my 22-250 ackley..
On most of my stands or when hunting I have never felt I was under gunned for most situations.. I guess it boils down to just haveing confidence in my shooting ability and the tools I use..
quote:
You know, with the time of flight involved, a coyote can move on you when using a 17 and a bad hit is real trouble with a 30 grain bullet.
I shoot at moveing coyotes all the time and even when they are comeing in to a call and time of flight is what saved my ass most of the time. Old habbits are tough to break..LOL
To be perfectly honest with you I;m just short of 200 coyotes under the 17 Pred. to date and have only lost one coyote so far and that was with a fireform load I used when in N.M.and Az. for the camp out..
quote:
I think you are better off limiting your 17 Predator to less than 350, max. Do you have some estimates on results beyond 250? No cripples, no exits, no shit?
I've only had two exits from useing the Pred., both shots behind the shoulder and through the ribcage and I had one coyote shot high on the front leg and went through the bone and into the chest, they all died right there.
I've had some run on a side shot at over 300 yds but they only ran a short distance and then bleed out, did'nt know they were dead...
Had a few spinners as well but I've seen the same happen from larger cal.s as well, only difference I noticed is mine did'nt go any farther....
Out of all the guns I've used I'm the happiest with the results I get with it and would'nt change a thing.. Everytime I kill a coyote when I'm with the group all they do is just shake there heads...LOL
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted February 24, 2012 01:26 AM
Wow Tim 200 coyotes with the 17 Predator and only 2 exits,AMAZING!!! I'm assuming that's with the 30 grain golds. I've only shot a few over 100 with my 17 Tactical and can't make that claim with them(the golds).I've had enough exit's and minor damage with them that I've gone back to the 25 grain Berger Match HP's They seem to be alot easier on the fur for me. Sure I have cut my effective killing range down abit, but I still feel very confident in it's killing ability out to around 250 yards.
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 24, 2012, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted February 24, 2012 06:17 AM
I suppose I could of said I had 100 exits to make you feel better, but thats not the case..LOL
I've even taken little redfox with it and it works pretty good on them as well..
The 30's have worked out so well for me I never bothered to try the 25 gr. bullets in my latest 17's.. I did try another brand of 30 gr. bullets (Genco) that shot well but did'nt like how they performed on the coyotes and hides.. The Genco's might be a good bullet to use on a 17-204 if I ever have one built....
Other members here have seen some of my shot coyotes up close and can verify what I'm saying, plus I have a few pic.s as well...
Got some snow finally so I'm heading out the door to give the new dog a try... Later...
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
