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Author
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Topic: specific cold weather loads
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 21, 2004 09:28 AM
Just wondered who out there takes the pains to develop cold weather loads with mag primers, etc.?
Anybody feel like their pet loads degrade when the temperature gets below a certain level?
What powders are you using, how much velocity do you lose. Down range, is the drop severe enough to miss, unless you dial in elevation?
Do you carry special extreme cold cartridges and plan ahead, or what? Ever have a failure caused by cold?
How do you test cold weather loads, when it isn't especially cold?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted November 21, 2004 01:12 PM
We droped to 77 today. I don't swith till we get in the low 60's.
Ronnie
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 21, 2004 08:04 PM
I don't. At least not much. I'll usually chrony and zero my coyote loads in cold weather, to make sure there are no nasty surprises. Sometimes, depending on the powder, might even have a slightly different load (couple tenths more powder), for winter vs. summer. But never any dramatic differences, usually none.
I killed five coyotes today, in temps from about 15 degrees to 25 degrees, using a load I developed and zeroed at 60. This was with my .17 Mach IV. One of them was at about 200, could only see his face, put the bullet about 3/4" left of where I was aiming.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 21, 2004 08:34 PM
Leonard, I almost never hunt at night, so, no, for practical purposes I never do hunt all night. I occasionally spend the night out there though. Guns and ammo sit all night. Bottled water sitting in the console a solid block of ice by morning. Kill coyotes on the first stand, long before the bottled water in the cab has thawed, just fine ![[Smile]](smile.gif) .
I know there ARE some combos that are going to give problems, developing a load when it's warm and not adjusting for cold. But, I simply avoid those kinds of combos, all together. One that comes to mind, that I experienced a long time ago, was H380 in the .22-250. Saw some truly disturbing things in the cold with that.
These days, there are so many great powders out there, you don't need to put up with that kind of stuff. I use either VV or Hogden's "extreme" powders almost exclusively, in all my rifles, and just don't suffer much temperature related performance fluctuations. From hot or cold.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted November 21, 2004 08:38 PM
Excuse me Leonard for changing the topic a tad.
Did you get any of those kills on video Dave?
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 21, 2004 09:04 PM
Nope. Camera has been being a real stinker. It crapped the bed almost two months ago. Sent it back, paid $400 for repairs. First time out after that, it crapped the bed again. Back it went again. They said it was something different. ANOTHER $400. First time out after that, you guessed it, crapped the bed AGAIN. It's still back at Canon from that one. They aren't charging me this time, but they are taking their time and I don't have a lot of confidence they are going to get it working right, either. I think maybe our GL1 just has too many miles on it.
We've killed 14 coyotes in the last 3 days we've got to go calling, and NONE of them are on film. Worst of it is, we thought several of them had been filmed BEAUTIFULLY. But then found out the camera was malfunctioning and hadn't actually got them at all.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 22, 2004 11:08 AM
Dang Dave that is discouraging. Losing great footage through no fault of your own.
I worked up a load in my .223 T.C. when I lived in Utah. I don't know what the temp was. Snow was on the ground. Max load for my gun with 748. I moved to Az. and used those cartridges for the first time in July 110 degrees and it sounded like the guns in the speghetti westerns. A screeching sort of sound. Cratered primers, bright ring around the base. Worked up another load at that temp and max was a full 3 grains less.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 22, 2004 12:18 PM
Yeah, discouraging for sure.
And you better believe it, going from a cold weather max. to summer heat with 748! Been there, done that. Most of the good old ball powders are bad that way. And big charges of large grain extruded powders can be bad going the other way, losing lots of performance going from hot to cold. Definitely, there are combo's to watch out for and take into consideration.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted November 22, 2004 02:34 PM
Ive never had any concern about winter time loads. I do all my loading and testing during the spring and late summer. All my loads are boxed and ready well before hunting begins. Never thought about it, or for that matter had any problems with difference of impact?
But; this is southern Az, where cold temps are maybe in the teens, but seldom dip to bitter cold like some of you may have.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 22, 2004 05:42 PM
Parker Ackley said that a rule of thumb concerning ambient temperature increase was an additional 2 feet per second increase in velocity per 1 degree increase in temperature with attendant increase in pressure.
If I worked up my 748 loads at 30 degrees and shot them at 110 degrees that would mean an increase of 160 FPS over a max load. Sounds like what you encountered Leonard.
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 22, 2004 07:53 PM
I worked up a load last winter in my 300 Tomahawk, ( It's a 300 RUM, improved ) that was more than 5 grains hotter than I could load it in the summer. It was over 100 grains of wc872, just about a compressed load. It would push the 240 grain match kings a respectable amount over 3100 FPS.
I quit shooting that load because at 800 yards, it was blowing holes in all of my steel plates:eek:
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 22, 2004 08:47 PM
Geeze Tim. A 240 gr. 30 caliber bullet started at better than 3100? How heavy is the rifle? Do you bleed from the nose and ears when you fire that monster?
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 23, 2004 04:24 AM
Rich,
The rifle weighs 15.5 pounds, has a 34" barrel and with the KDF brake, hearing protection isn't an option. You won't fire the rifle more than once with out it.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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John/Alaska
Knows what it's all about
Member # 25
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posted November 23, 2004 08:21 AM
Interesting thread. I've often wondered about wide temparature swings and its affect on cartridge performance. Ackleys rule of thumb quoted by Rich leaves me wondering if I can blame my misses on temperature swings!
I shoot factory stuff as I don't reload. My hunting temps can range from 35 below to 40 above. I usually zero when the temps are in the 10-20 above range. Guess I'm going to have to see what happens at 30 below at 200 yards. You have me curious.
Posts: 62 | From: Tok Alaska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted November 24, 2004 12:01 AM
Temperature will always affect any chemical reaction, like powder burning. Some more than others, but all powders will burn differently at different temperatures.
That aside, exterior ballistics are usually more affected by temperature. Hot air is less dense and causes less drag on the bullet.
A load shooting flatter at higher temperatures is certainly a combination of factors, but the thinner air is most always a bigger factor than faster burning of the powder.
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 24, 2004 06:06 PM
Good point Jack,
Folks who build a load and sight in their rifles at home, need to recheck their zero, at several yardages, again before going on the "Hunt of a lifetime" up in the mountains.
They may not notice much inside of a hundred yards, but when the Monster buck, it standing broadside at the far edge of their range. It may make the difference between a nice trophy, and a sad memory.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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