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Author
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Topic: 6mm Rem.
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txsniper
PAKMAN
Member # 520
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posted February 07, 2005 11:36 AM
I've got a Remington model 700 in a 6mm remington, and i'm looking to improve on it's long distance shooting and accuracy. I've researched a little bit about the 6mm AI, and it sounds perfect for what i want to do with my rifle. Can anyone suggest some GOOD, reputable riflesmiths, in texas? I stay in the Sugar Land, Tx area (near Houston). I've heard good things about Hill Country Rifles, is anyone here familiar with them?
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...Excuses are like dull tools used to make monuments of nothingness...
Posts: 5 | From: Tx | Registered: Jan 2005
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 07, 2005 12:16 PM
If it shoots well, no improvement is needed. 6mms are great just as they are.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 07, 2005 02:44 PM
I agree with what Cal says. A 6mm Remington is plenty gun; you go more capacity and you shorten barrel life dramatically. Unless you are thinking of a real long range application, and intend on rebarreling it, I'd leave it alone until it doesn't group anymore.
As a practical matter, rechambering a factory barrel is a waste of time and money, if that's what you are considering?
But, a rebarrel, if you want that extra long range capability, the 6mmAckley is a real strong contender, as is the 6mm'06 or the 6/284, even some might suggest the 243 Improved as a very intelligent compromise.
If your rifle still shoots, I would leave it alone and buy another action for your application. You need something to use while you are building a new toy. These projects can take a year, sometimes.
Good luck. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 07, 2005 04:47 PM
How serious are you about shooting at long range?
Do you want to shoot a coyote at 400 yards, or a pidgin at 1,000?
If you are really serious, here are three boards for you to look at:
1000 yard Benchrest
Long Range Hunting
ARTactical.com
Just remember that long range shooing is very addicting, and even more expensive. If your wife throws you out and you end up in bankruptcy court, Don't blame me, I warned you!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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txsniper
PAKMAN
Member # 520
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posted February 07, 2005 05:08 PM
I'm definitely not going to rebarrel the stock barrel. I plan on having a Hart, or Lija barrel made to fit the original stock. The gun shoots very well for it's age (10yrs), and for having a 22in. barrel. But like any thing else, it's good to have a little bit of an edge. Thanks for the links......i plan on getting this done before November (this is also my deer rifle).
I'm not familiar on the durability of a barrel.....about how many rounds could an original barrel like mine take until it stops grouping tightly?
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...Excuses are like dull tools used to make monuments of nothingness...
Posts: 5 | From: Tx | Registered: Jan 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 07, 2005 05:24 PM
My 6AI (pictured below) is setup for medium range (500 - 600 yd) rock chuck and prairie dog shooting (chucks, mostly).
My rifle, as of now, is shooting like crap. But, that's the fault of the bedding (and the 'smith who did it), not the cartridge.
For medium weight bullets, and a barrel of reasonable length, I like the 6AI or .243AI (I've got one of those too...), over the larger capacity 6-284 (which has almost identical capacity as the 6-06). But, when stepping up to heavier bullets, and especially if used in a longer barrel, the performance gains of the larger 6-284 can't be denied.
Performance wise, just in general terms, you'll gain about 150-200 fps from the 6AI over the standard 6mm. Which runs pretty close to the .243AI, which runs about 150-200 fps over the standard .243. That's all very general and it's easy to find examples that differ.
Barrel life varies, a lot, based on a lot of things. Frankly, I just wouldn't worry about it. I sure don't.
One thing about AI's in general, they can be a bit fussy about feeding from a 700 action. Usually they feed "okay", and can pretty much always be MADE to feed at least "okay". But it's not unusual to have to have the feeding worked on a bit. Depending on just how slick you really want it to be.
I say go for it. You'll have fun!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 07, 2005 05:35 PM
Boy, that Dave knows his stuff. A valuable contribution, every time.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 07, 2005 05:53 PM
A good friend of mine who is employed as a full time adc trapper/hunter has both a 6 and a 6AI. Both are nice rifles, exceptionally accurate and well made. Over the chrono, his two, and my 26" 243 all with the same bullet (68 grn Berger MEF's) WITH THE LOADS THAT SHOOT BEST, are within 100 fps of each other. When he jacks the velocity up that extra 100 or so fps he loses accuracy. Now, I'm talking about going from roughly a 1/2 inch group to a inch or so, so maybe it's no big deal. The other thing is he and I have shot alot of coyotes at all kinds of ranges out to 400 plus yards with all three rifles. All of the three get the job done equally well and the holdover is the same. The coyotes have never been able to pick out which rifle they were shot with. Now, if you're talking more yardage than that, Tim has all the info you'll ever need on the truly long range stuff. But what I'm slowly getting around to is that the worst of the three for work involved is of course the AI. Screwing around fireforming brass, case life, and general feeding problems etc. Everytime there has been a breakdown it has been the AI. Twice it has twisted off cases when opening the bolt. And so on. I just don't know if the extra velocity is worth the trouble. The one case that I think is worth it when going to the AI is the 22-250. It seems to really benefit from the improvement. The other option has already been mentioned. Go to the 6mm 284. I think that is the best hotrod in the 6's.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 07, 2005 06:12 PM
Interesting post, Cal.
Your three examples are not particularly representative as to the relative improvements seen in those cartridges, but no doubt, every one is a law unto itself. It does seem like you are dealing with a hot 243 barrel and a slow 6AI barrel?
One thing that I will say. I began using the 68 Berger about ten(?) years ago and lost so many cripples I never finished the box. Whenever it was, they didn't have MEF bullets available, at the time, it was the normal target HP. Glad to hear you are using them successfully.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 07, 2005 06:34 PM
For shooting coyotes out to 400, with a 68 gr. bullet, I would agree - throw a blanket over all three cartridges and take whichever. It won't make a spit worth of difference in that application. The 6-284 won't gain you enough though, from a short barrel, with a bullet that light, to be worth all the extra powder, in my opinion. Then again, I'm known for doing exactly that kind of a rig anyway, so...
The cases twisting off though, that's nothing caused by AI vs. non AI. That's either poor gunsmithing, poor handloading, or a combination of the two. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's mostly poor 'smithing. Head separations with AI's like that are usually caused by too much headspace in the chamber, caused by a 'smith that doesn't know how to properly chamber an AI for the right crush fit on a virgin case. I'm AMAZED by how many 'smiths don't have a CLUE about this. Including some very famous "name" guys. I have two .22-250AI's that were done by one of these nationally famous guys that suffer this condition. Wasn't too much of a problem for me, because I knew how to recognize it and make sure my cases got fireformed without stretching/thinning at the web. But unfortunately, most guys take it on faith that a newly "custom" 'smithed chamber is good as gold and just fireform away without checking things out carefully. Leads to exacty what you described with "twisting off" cases. But, a properly done AI chamber, properly loaded for, will actually be considerably LESS likely, to have this happen, over the long run.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 07, 2005 06:56 PM
quote:
a properly done AI chamber, properly loaded for, will actually be considerably LESS likely, to have this happen, over the long run.
Yeah, that's my take on the subject. Needs to be looked at, can't have something that is unreliable in the field. Cal, I'd suggest to your friend that he have it checked.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted February 07, 2005 10:25 PM
DAA is right on, "twisting off cases" has nothing to do with the different chambers. Poor reloading or poor gunsmithing is the cause, and either would have to be really pitiful.
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted February 08, 2005 05:25 AM
I know his reloading practices are good, so that leaves the chamber I guess. He's afraid to try more than about three or four reloads on any particular lot of brass.
If you want to see coyotes anchored hard Leonard, try some of the Berger 68 or 70 MEFs. I know I have mentioned this before, but you will be astonished. If your not I'll pay you for the box of bullets. You can't beat a deal like that!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 08, 2005 08:00 AM
Heck yeah, I have half a box of 68 grain bullets laying around I can send you, I never throw anything out. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm presently using a 74 grain Berger in my 243. Nothing special performance wise, not MEF. The only MEF I use is the 62 grain in a 220 Swift. Causes quite a lot of destruction.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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