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Author Topic: Ever have an inaccurate rifle? greasewood Knows what it's all about Member # 815 posted April 03, 2006 03:48 AM                   I was wondering just how common this is? I've got a couple of hunting buddies, that probably have 5 bolt action rifles between them, that they say that they can't develop accurate loads for. Now, they have developed accurate loads for their current rifles, but not these ones. Did you ever get a rifle that you couldn't get to shoot? And did you sell it, rebarrel it, or is it still sitting in the gun safe? GW [ April 03, 2006, 03:51 AM: Message edited by: greasewood ] Posts: 13 | From: Nevada | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged Rich 2,000th post PAKMAN Member # 112 posted April 03, 2006 06:12 AM                       This is only my own opinion but it seems to me that if it is a new rifle and made by one of the top name companys, if it won't shoot it probably ain't the barrel. Cheap stocks, poor bedding and hard tigger pull are pretty common these days. -------------------- If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder. Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged Kokopelli SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice Member # 633 posted April 03, 2006 06:15 AM                      Define 'accurate'. I have a mini-14 that on a good day will hold a 2 1/2 group at 100 yards. This is a source of much mirth among the benchrest guys at the gun club. It is also a coyote killing machine in situations where shots run between feet to about 125 yards. How accurate is accurate enough?? -------------------- And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it. Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Cal Taylor Knows what it's all about Member # 199 posted April 03, 2006 06:25 AM                    Around my house if a coyote rifle won't consistantly shoot around a half inch or a little over, it becomes re barreled or it becomes someone elses. -------------------- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. FoxPro Field Staff Member Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted April 03, 2006 06:52 AM                       I think we need to keep these things in perspective. Some people can't shoot for beans. Some guns don't need cutting edge accuracy. But, another thing I don't believe in is a hopeless quest. More time and money is spent on components and range sessions trying to find a magic combination that isn't there. The secret to an accurate rifle is an accurate barrel. Tinkering with the bedding needs to be done. Trigger work, for me anyway, is a must. I don't care if a rifle is a one holer, if the trigger doesn't suit me, I can't shoot it accurately. My 300 WinMag is the heaviest rifle I own, and it shoots 3/4" five shot groups, and I'm thrilled to death with that performance. I'm not impressed with 3/4" groups in a varmint rig. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged JD HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault! Member # 768 posted April 03, 2006 11:47 AM                   Kokopelli made me think about back when I was young & didn`t have a dime to my name, I had an SKS with a dragunov stock & a scope & bipods & painted camoflage, I shot a bunch of coyotes with that gun until one day a buddy asked me "how does it group" so we shot at paper one afternoon, that was a mistake, it`s still im my closet for some reason but I haven`t pointed it at any living thing in years. That doesn`t really have anything to do with this thread, but the memories sure made me chuckle. I`m with Cal, I personally consider .500 to be some kind of magic number although shooting under field conditions for me is where the real problem is. -------------------- Jason -------------------------------------- What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!! Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged TA17Rem Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector Member # 794 posted April 03, 2006 12:26 PM                    If i buy a new varmint rifle and it does'nt shoot under 3/4" I take it to gunsmith and have him pull the barrel and true up the action and square up the threads on the barrel. And glass bed the action. Most of the time thats all it needs to be done. I did this many years ago when gunsmithing was'nt all that exspensive, now the price has gone up so l just have him put on a custom barrel and true up the action. Lately now i have been going to the complete custom rifle, start from scratch and build up. It can be pretty spendy going this route and i dont believe its for everyone. If some one was to get a badd shooter they are proably better off tradeing it off. The other thing to look at is how much ammo you are going to shoot in a season, 50-100 rds. better off with factory gun. If you shoot alot say 500 and more then i think the custom route would be better. -------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird! Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted April 03, 2006 12:27 PM                   Your 250 doesnt shoot well JD... Something MUST be wrong with the scope. The last few rifles I have owned, save my CZ, mostly Remingtons, go directly to the smithy for a trigger job, pillar bedding, action checked for true, ect.... If not, they wont shoot. Thats my experience. Edit: JD, its about that time of year. Im gettin anxious. Are we gonna go shoootin? [ April 03, 2006, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ] -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted April 03, 2006 01:00 PM                       Golly, Andy! says Barney Fife. "I'm not going for none of that Brokeback rendezvous messaging here in Mayberry!" "People will talk!" -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted April 03, 2006 01:54 PM                   It almost sounded worse that it does.... I caught myself.. Its a joke. JD has a really good shootin 22-250. Last spring, my son and I went shootin prarie dogs with him. The second day, he missed a few in a row and laid his gun down saying there must be something wrong with the scope. My 11 yr old picked it up and proceeded to peel many dogs off the mounds at 100-400 yards over the next 45 minutes while we sat there and laughed and shot the bull. Pretty funny at the time and kind of a runnin joke. Yeah, its code. -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged JD HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault! Member # 768 posted April 03, 2006 08:33 PM                   Code!?!? Brokeback rondevous!?!? I must`ve missed something, what did you type Andy? Was it something like.... the dog in front of the pink house barks at the moon on the stroke of midnight next tuesday. Anyhow, give me a call & we`ll go shoot some pasture poodles. -------------------- Jason -------------------------------------- What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!! Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged Nahuatl Knows what it's all about Member # 708 posted April 05, 2006 10:52 AM                    Owning an inaccurate rifle? How common? Uncommon, I think. Usually you can get close, even if it isn't perfection. Define "accuracy?" That depends doesn't it? since a squirrel rifle isn't for a Cape Buffalo. This is my nightmare rifle, still sitting in the safe 9 (?) years later. Winchester Mod 70 Classic Stainless .338 Win Mag. It's been bedded. Trigger done. (by Mike's in Long Beach) Someone might say, Whoa! You're flinching. I don't think so. I shoot MOA from it's almost-twin in .375 H&H Mag or from the Browning A-bolt in .338 I bought to replace it. I'm generally calm regardless of caliber. I've tried pounds of powder in various charges each behind the following: Nosler Partition 210 gr Nosler Partition 225 gr Barnes "XBT" 210 gr Barnes "X" 225 gr Barnes "X" 250 gr Sierra Spitzer 215 gr Sierra Spitzer 250 gr So it's broken in. It's polished. The crown has been inspected, though not re-machined. Best 3-shot 100 yd group - 3.5" But that means that when you're hunting deer or elk or bear with it, 200 yards is going to be an iffy shot. I returned it to Winchester. They sent it back with a target. 5" group. They said it performed within specifications. Huh? If I ever got it to group 2", it'd be a moral victory. I can't in good conscience sell the damn thing. It's sitting there waiting, an expensive action waiting for a complete rebuild taking up room in the safe, a sorry excuse for a brand new rifle. Maybe I could leave it on the front porch, and then file on my homeowner's insurance. Nah, I live in one of those neighborhoods where even a hundred dollar bill wouldn't get taken. Winchester, (at least this time), you suck. Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged Az-Hunter Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here Member # 17 posted April 05, 2006 11:08 AM                   Christ...it's a winchester that doesn't shoot, how hard can that be to part with:) There are various gun forums where, for the right price of course, you can sell it in three days. Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Tim Behle Administrator MacNeal Sector Member # 209 posted April 05, 2006 08:37 PM                       Nahuatl, If you want to sell it, let me know. Have you tried playing with the seating depth? [ April 05, 2006, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ] -------------------- Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass kickin'. Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged Bud/OR Knows what it's all about Member # 450 posted May 14, 2006 01:39 PM                    Hey Nahuatl, Been there, done that. I've had a few rifles that would not group, some to the point of bizarre. Then I worked up a system that, most times, dramatically improves things. When Browning came out with their rifle with the adjustable 'dildo' to change barrel vibration and improve accuracy, it occured to me that vibration and barrel time had to be a key factor. I went out to the garage and got a fishing rod blank. I placed it on a bench with most overhanging and rapped it on the botton with my hand. Watching the rod vibrate up and down kind of got my pea-brain working. I imagined straight up and down as a correctly bedded barrel. Rapping it on the bottom-side gave a different, up and to the side oscillation; a poorly bedded barrel. It occurred to me; if I had a correctly bedded barrel and good trigger AND I could catch the bullet exit at the TOP or BOTTOM of the vibration, the bullet would be exiting when the barrel is DEAD STILL. Bullet exit, anywhere else and the barrel is moving. So...... I picked a poor shooting rifle (happened to be a .338 Remington 700) and started working up loads. I chose a bullet and powder that I like and the lowest velocity I accept for hunting Elk (which is well below max.). I made up three loads at that charge. I then made three loads each, adding a half grain untill I reached the max for that powder, case, bullet, primer and seating depth, which I already knew. I had nine 'sets' of charged rounds. I mounted a Leupold 6X24 and zeroed with different loads to get me centered on target at 100yds.. I then set up three 'Leupold' targets (the ones with 1" squares) at 300 yds.. I had marked the cases; 1-1, 1-2, 1-3,...2-1, 2-2.....and so on. I had a spotting scope and "proof' target next to me on the bench. As I shot one bullet from a set into each of the three targets, with the SAME center aiming point, I marked the exact impact point on the 'proof' target, next to me. As I shot each of the sets (powder-wise) into the targets I was amazed to see the first few sets impact DOWN from center, then as the charge kept increasing, impact started UPWARD. Just before 'MAX', bullet impact started DOWN again. I gathered the targets and, from my proof target, I marked each hole with its correct placement and overlayed the three targets, then marked the bullet holes in their correct place on the bottom target. The three shot groups (one hole and two penciled holes) measured from three+ inches down to 3/4". Both the highest and lowest groups were smallest. I went home and loaded more rounds (partial-sized), up and down, two-tenth grain of powder in both the higher load and lower load. I went shooting again, this time on one target, with different aiming points for all of each powder charge. I was looking for the EXACT top and bottom of the vibration and the smallest group. I know I've made a short story, long here. The bottom line is; I have a .338 that would not shoot under two and a half inches that, with this process and a slight change in seating depth, will shoot, all day long, 1/2" groups with my favorite bullet at just under max velocity. When Barnes came out with the 160gr. XFB I did my testing all over again and have never looked backed. Boy oh boy.....don't hit anything you want to eat. It's like running a chain saw through them. It's fast, less recoil and kills like the wrath of God. Hope this helps. It's a pain in the butt but worth every minute. Bud [ May 14, 2006, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Bud/OR ] Posts: 51 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted May 16, 2006 10:29 AM                       I remember the first 6mm I owned. I tried many bullets, many different powders. It was not a very accurate rifle and I accepted that realization. One day, while over at my partner's place, he handed me a box of 60 gr. Sierra hollow points. I tried them with a moderately hot load of 4350 and "Bingo"! I never knew the reason, twist, maybe(?) but I used that rifle a lot, for a couple years, at the most and it was stolen. I hope that ******* thief never stumbles across Sierra 60 gr. HPs. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged

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