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Author
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Topic: Thanks Dan Carey
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted December 28, 2007 08:31 PM
I posted this on PM but wanted to share it with those of you that dont go over there. Here is a 3 shot group i shot this morning with the 22-250 AI Dan built me. What a good shooter. Im very pleased...
100 yrds
55 gr berger
3827 average velocity
39 gr 4064
26 barrel
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 29, 2007 09:49 AM
I guess now you won't have a single good excuse for missing a coyote!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 29, 2007 10:32 AM
Thanks, Tim. That's what I would have said, had I been mean and nasty, which I often am.
Unknown, sounds like you got a shooter? I'll not soon forget that "piece of tail" you proudly waved, a couple years ago. That was, um, precious?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted December 29, 2007 11:14 AM
I thought all you HS guys were supposed to shoot Thompson/centers!!!!
Maintain, Geordie
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 29, 2007 03:25 PM
Nope.......Some of us are even unrepentant Mini-14 users; although mine couldn't shoot a group like the one pictured even if I taped the target to the end of the barrel.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7582 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted December 29, 2007 05:42 PM
Tim, I bet i can come up with something.
Plus the tail shot was on purpose,,,ask higgans.
unknown.
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted December 30, 2007 06:07 AM
Great looking group, where is the pic of the rifle?
On another subject what makes the 250 AI better than the 220 swift? Whats the pros and cons of each that made you decide to go with the 22-250AI?
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted December 30, 2007 08:00 AM
If I were to build another 22 centerfire I would take the 22-250 AI over the swift all day long. The swift is a ill feeding, tempermental, bastard child that should be confined to the depths of hell. But thats just a personal opinion. I have had several of them and it was always a love/hate relationship. All were finicky about what they shot, but once you find that magic load they shot well. Most feed like crap unless you stack your shells just so. But once you figure out all the little tricks they are a real coyote killer. I have one collecting dust in my gun safe right now. I need to rebarrel it one of these days and it will probably be a 22-250 AI.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted December 30, 2007 10:05 AM
Steve, if you're happy I'm happy!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2007 10:30 AM
The virtues of the 22-250AI over a 220 Swift?
The case design makes for slightly higher operating pressures without split necks and neck triming to length that plagues the Swift. In other words, you will get a lot more reloads from your brass, and really the only reason to toss a case is if you enlarge primer pockets, which is easily avoided at the first sign of cratering. Operating just below max on a 22-250AI will give you higher velocities than a Swift, with the right bullet and powder combination.
The most common problem is where people zone out on speed and use a light bullet. You can only drive a 50 grain bullet so fast without serious throat errosion. The solution is to use at least 55 grain bullets, in my view.
And, you need to consider the twist in any barrel you buy. Some will work and some won't. Pick a bullet weight, and stick with it. But, if you do it right, the 22-250 is just excellent, if you are looking for a reasonable high performance 22 caliber predator rifle. It is (without question) superior to the 220 Swift, in every catagory I can think of? There may be others that deserve consideration, but this cartridge is a definate winner.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted December 30, 2007 11:07 AM
Arent the feeding problems in the swift a result of the slight rim on the cartridge? I have been told by others that if the top cartridge in the mag is place so the rim is behind the next in line, the bolt will 'shove' both cartridges, causing feeding problems. I have also been told, there can be some feeding problems with the A.I. due to the sharper shoulder of the cartridge causing the round to 'hang' when leaving the magazine, and possibly jumping the feedramp to chamber.
These maybe vicious rumors, I don't own either caliber. I have experienced with some magazines (both remington and winchester), more than 3 rounds loaded may some times cause a double feed.
Maintain, Geordie
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2007 12:15 PM
No, you are correct about both. Taking care in loading the magazine will prevent almost all feeding problems with the Swift.
In a Ackley Improved case, you MAY need feed rail work, especially if you slam the bolt in a hurry. In some cases, it is only one side of the staggered mag. that needs the work, but it is fairly easyily accomplished. Use a couple dummy cartridges and take a little metal off at a time, polish the results.
There is no question that short fat straight-sided cases do not feed as well as long taperd cases.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 30, 2007 01:18 PM
quote:
Taking care in loading the magazine will prevent almost all feeding problems with the Swift.
It took me a couple of jams to realize that, but once I did the cycling problems ceased. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
(edit) Dan, I'm back home, so go ahead and ship the "Hammer of Thor", LOL. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ December 30, 2007, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted December 31, 2007 06:43 AM
Ok all of this helps, what about a 220 AI?
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 31, 2007 07:01 AM
The only .220AI's I've messed with were both single shots, so the feeding stuff didn't apply. Very nice, high performance cartridge, with a definite velocity edge over the .22-250AI and none of the brass flow issues the Swift is famous for.
I can imagine that feeding from a staggered box magazine might be a challenge - all the issues of the straight sided AI case (which is the real bugaboo, more so than the steep shoulder), plus the semi rim.
If looking for that level of performance, and wanting smooth feeding from a 700 type magazine, I'd look to the .22-243 (probably my next project, either vanilla or Middlestead). Especially since Lapua makes .243 brass that is really, really good quality stuff.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted December 31, 2007 09:57 AM
Can you tell me more about the 22-243?
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 31, 2007 10:45 AM
Not too much I can say about it, since I don't have one yet. In general terms, it should give a bit more velocity than anything on the Swift or '250 case. But will do so by burning a bunch more powder and I'm sure barrel life by round count won't be very long. Which is not to say the barrel won't outlive me, for how it will be used.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 31, 2007 11:44 AM
I agree with what Dave said, except that I don't believe it's necessary to go beyond 220Swift performance for the vast majority of predator hunting applications. A 22-250AI gives you that, (superior performance) with good case life and decent barrel life.
When you start thinking beyond that level of performance, and the "cost", I think it's time to step up to twenty-four caliber. Just personal opinion, but there are definate advantages over .224"
Like, (another direction) that 20-250 that Dave is using (occasionally) in his new video. On a tapered case, yet. If they come up with a decent selection of bullets, that little number might be a solution for a lot of coyote hunters.
*By the way, I watched Dave's new video last night, with my son and grandson. A lot of outbursts around the campfire, acknowledging some very good shooting. The thing I liked about it was the way it looked just like a hunting trip, in familiar suroundings. Well, several hunting trips, but it didn't appear to be a "best of" or "highlights" video, as some are. Very entertaining and I recommend it. You will like it!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 31, 2007 04:51 PM
Dave's new video has turned out to be a real money maker for me. I didn't get a chance to turn it on until Friday night, I've tried to watch it three times now, and keep getting called in to work soon after they let the bobcat walk away.
But every thing that I've seen so far has been great!
Tomorrow is a Holiday ( Double time if I get called out ) I think I'll try to finish it then
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted January 10, 2008 06:05 PM
What is the difference between the .22-243 vanilla and middlestead? Leonard would the .22-243 not have a little advantage over the .243 in the fur department or would that mostly be dependant on bullet selection?
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 10, 2008 08:26 PM
A few guys here still use the 22-243 with Sierra 52 gr. H.P..I believe theres are called the cheetah.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5065 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2008 08:48 PM
quote:
What is the difference between the .22-243 vanilla and middlestead? Leonard would the .22-243 not have a little advantage over the .243 in the fur department or would that mostly be dependant on bullet selection?
Yeah, that's a lot of the reality. You are dealing with a high performance chambering. I have seen (and used) a lot of different cartridges in 22 and 24 caliber. In high capacity .224 cartridges, such as 220 Swift, or a few of the so called hot rock wildcats, you can use frangible bullets, or heavy for caliber VLD bullets. Of course, there is a difference in terminal performance. So, let's say you have 50 grain bullets or 55/60 grain bullets being driven 3800/4000fps. There is very little noticeable difference in damage, versus a 6mm 60/70 grain bullet. But, are there bullets that perform very differently. Yes. Some would be heavier with thicker jackets, some might be monolithic, some might have a longer ogive and boattail.
Specifically. Does a 22/243 have an advantage over the 243 Winchester......in the fur department? My opinion is no, but this is dependant on bullet selection. A 243Win is not a fur cartridge and a 22-243 (or 220Swift) is not a fur cartridge, either. If you want better long range performance, less holdover, for instance, then the hot .224 may be a choice, with a fast twist and heavy bullets? But, will a vanilla 243 hold better in the wind, or not? I'm not sure, but it's still a question of bullet selection, sectional density, ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity.
Now, I have a solution that works for me in .224. My 22-250 Ackley drives a 65 grain bullet at 3925fps. The barrel is 1-15 and I'm running on the ragged edge (RPM) as far as stability, but the accuracy is very acceptable. This bullet exits every time on almost any presentation, unless I hit the spine, or something otherwise unfortunate happens. The exit is less than quarter size and the animal drops in his tracks stone dead....if I do my part. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I do not own a 24 caliber rifle that is easy on fur? But. In some cases, such as now, I am using a 56 grain bullet in a 6mm Remington and many times, that bullet does not exit. I am also using a 70gr. Nosler in my 243 and that bullet causes train wreck type damage. I'm just saying. Pick a bullet for your application very carefully. You just can't wrap up performance in a tidy package and sally forth with what you believe to be the answer; without some homework and possibly a few failures along the way.
I probably just confused you, and if I did, I apologize.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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