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Author
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Topic: Can we have a serious discussion about shotguns for coyotes?
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted May 13, 2012 10:45 AM
quote:
Rich just take that 25-06 rhino slayer you have and zero it for 100 yds and then shoot at one of your paper pie plates at 500 yds and just aim for the top of the plate.. Bet you can hit it, even at your old age...
Really?
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 11:08 AM
"Rich just take that 25-06 rhino slayer you have and zero it for 100 yds and then shoot at one of your paper pie plates at 500 yds and just aim for the top of the plate.. Bet you can hit it, even at your old age."
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Only a clueless Ass Hat would zero a coyote rifle for 100 yards. Even an old fart like me knows that with my present 200 yard zero, I would need to hold about 36" high to center a pie plate at 500 yards. Since I don't own a range finder, I would need to take 500 long paces out there to set up my target. Since I am too old to walk that far and too smart to be shooting at a 500 yard coyote, I guess I won't bother.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 13, 2012 12:07 PM
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a 200 yd zero, should be able to hold on fur out to 300 yds..
I use a BDC dial so all my rifles that have one are zeroed for 100 yds.
If you can't walk 500 yds just use your truck and measure off with the speedomiter.. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 13, 2012 01:09 PM
Just retrieving data from my memory banks, which can be haphazard at best. I do not recall Mr Cronk telling us about a 25'06? I think he has a 257Ackley and if I'm not mistaken, it is based on the 257 Roberts case? Essentially, the same capacity as 6MM Remington and 7X57Mauser, before blowing out the shoulder. Or, do I have it wrong? Not that it matters, but that case doesn't have the capacity of the '06.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted May 13, 2012 01:21 PM
Hmmm............Using the odometer thingy in the speedometer to accurately measure distance for sighting in. Gotta admit, I never would've thought of that one. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Oh, by the way; Let me assure you that copper plated lead BBs will at least chip paint at 30 yards. ![[Cool]](cool.gif) The foot pounds of all of those little BBs added together becomes pretty impressive.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7581 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 04:26 PM
Leonard,
I actually have two .25-06 rifles, and one .257 Roberts Improved. The Roberts Improved is my favorite coyote rifle, but I still shoot .25-06 now and then also.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 13, 2012 04:41 PM
quote:
..Using the odometer thingy in the speedometer to accurately measure distance for sighting in. Gotta admit, I never would've thought of that one.
Thats how we measured distance here on a bedded fox or coyote before the range finders hit the market.
Would get on a road parrell to the animal and then measure distance to next road that we planned to walk in from or take a shot from..
As you walk in just count the steps and subtract..
Its not like trying to put a rocket on the moon and dosen't have to be that exact...
[ May 13, 2012, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 13, 2012 04:50 PM
Okay, I just don't ever remember you mentioning a 25'06? But, I did remember the 257AI because it's a little bit different. What are the 25'06 for, then? Deer rifles? Makes a hell of a decent deer rifle and will drop a coyote's dick in the dirt when necessary.
What's your bullet of choice? I like the 100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip as an all around bullet, but am using a 96.5 grain Starke just for coyotes, at night.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 05:05 PM
Leonard,
I have never hunted deer with a rifle, so my own .25-06 rifles are used for coyote whacking. The 100 grain Nosler ballistic tip you mention is one good choice if you are saving hides. I shot a lot of coyotes with a 100 grain Sierra PRO Hunter with good results, and also had good luck with their 90 grain GameKing. Right now I am testing Speer's 87 grain Hot Core, but the jury is still out on that one. Here are a couple photo's of my very first .25-06.
My second .25-06
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 05:07 PM
My Mexican Mauser in .257 Roberts Improved leaning on a mangy coyote.
Close up of the Roberts Improved.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 13, 2012 05:52 PM
I like the stock on the first rifle..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted May 13, 2012 07:34 PM
I agree. There's some interesting angles going on there and the wood ain't half bad either.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 08:18 PM
Yes, my friend who built the rifle owned a duplicarver. The wood is genuine walnut, the stock was carved on an original Winslow pattern, and there is a stiffener of German silver inserted up through the pistol grip.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 08:21 PM
I carried this photo around in my wallet too long, but as you can see, the old Mauser shoots pretty good.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 13, 2012 08:32 PM
I wish someone made a better bullet for the 25 calibers. I wound up with another 25-06AI but my 243AI with the 105 A-max beats any combo I can come up with.
But I still want a 25 caliber in my safe for some reason.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted May 13, 2012 08:55 PM
Tom,
I LOVE my .25's, but the 6mm bug keeps biting me. I am wondering if a 6mm/06 A.I. would produce enough more velocity over the standard 6mm Remington to be worth my time and money? Problems, Problems! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 27, 2012 02:25 PM
For what its worth , i have both a 6mm AI & 257 Rbts AI . I had a gunsmith friend build both using Shilen match grade blanks. I ordered Clymer floating pilot reamers cut to "my" specs.
The 6mm is probably my favorite , for no other reason than it's built on a Rem M7 action & #2 bbl. I considered a 22-250AI , 25-06 AI & 250Sav AI , all fine calibers and will do what most anyone would want out of them. I have run them warm & hot using Re19, Re22, Imr4350 & 4831. Which one a guy decides on will probably turn out well if done right. I also considered the 6-284 , but at the time i couldn't locate any brass to work with. The 6-06 is a heck of a round , basically same cap as 6-284 and or 240 Wtby . Check them out to get an idea of what the 6-06 , 6-06AI will do.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 27, 2012 03:00 PM
I don't know? I own a 243Winchester and a 6MM Remington and a 243Ackley. I tend to think the 243Improved is as close to overbore as I want to get. Just how much performance can we expect from a .243" bore? If economy means anything and you do your own barrel work, etc. And, why? Do coyotes require that much killing? Every once in a while, somebody needs to drag us back to reality, even if it is kicking and screaming. Whatever, it's building a dream. Everybody has one.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 27, 2012 03:31 PM
No argument from me Leonard. I honestly think the whole AI craze was caused by getting a good straight min specd chamber, cut by a good smith. Heck the 243,308& 358 wins are already an Improved case to begin with. aka 300 sav improved.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 27, 2012 03:37 PM
I had the 6mm AI built so i could hunt varmits & mule deer using one rifle. And it does a kickass job doing both with the bullets we now have to choose from. I have pretty much settled on Barnes X 75's,80's & 85's at 3600 to 3850 fps
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 28, 2012 07:50 AM
I agree that the .243 or 6mm Rem have the best bullets available for the purpose of killing coyotes. I haven't moved past the suggested maximum loads for those calibers to learn when the case and primer begin showing excessive pressure signs. If you can safely load a .243 to shoot 80 or 85 grain Barnes X bullets at a velocity of 3600 fps, then you have the ultimate coyote whacker. I know that I can do that with my .257 AI, so right now the quarter bore appears to be supreme. I think that my model 98 Mausers in .25-06 could also do that, but I just have not tried it with the good, strongly constructed bullets, so I can't claim that they actually WILL do it. Now Kelly Jackson is shooting the little 55 grain bullets out of his .243 at mind boggling velocities (around 3800 I think), and he has been seeing very good results on called coyotes. Never fear for the .243, as it will always rank near the top as a good coyote caliber.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 28, 2012 08:59 AM
Rich , when i started loading for the 6mm AI i bought a box of WW factory ammo for fire forming.
I used that brass , searching for and finding safe max loads. The 75gr Barnes X i used was newly released then and a long for caliber bullet, so i paid a lot of attention to bumping the powder charges up to max. When the vel reached 3850 fps i stopped , double checked everything . then loaded and fired those original 20 rds 9 times each over the next 6 months. I still have that box of fired brass, having fired them a total of 17 times.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted July 10, 2012 05:08 PM
Im late to the party. However, 2 3/4 in 4 buck out of a modified or full, depends on what your gun likes, kills em just as dead as anything at shotgun ranges. Or what I consider shotgun ranges.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 10, 2012 09:46 PM
I just got back from browsing at Bass ProShops. I had a hard time finding anything to buy that I didn't already have, but picked up two boxes of Remington "Viper" LR because that is what turned out to group best in my new Browning Camper. Like I said, I already have a box on hand, plus two bricks of Winchester and six other boxes, but had to have a couple more of the Vipers.
But, here's the interesting part. They had one box of 3" Dead Coyote and I figured, might as well stock up on that but when I got to the register, they rang it up at $52.99 for 10! So, I left it since I like #4Buck better anyway and it's like 6 something for five shells. Fuck Dead Coyote at that price; I have a box on hand anyway.
I'm still thinking that Winchester XX #4Buck with 41 pellets is really good coyote medicine. So, for less than a buck and a half for #4Buck versus $5.30 each for Dead Coyote, it ain't that much better.
IS IT?
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
edit: so why do they get $52.99 for Dead Coyote? How do they justify a price like that. Now, somebody is going to tell me they buy it for ten dollars over at Billy Bob's. I can't win.
[ July 10, 2012, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted July 11, 2012 07:38 AM
Rich - I put a 26" 12 twist barrel chambered 243AI on that action this summer.
The 55's are really smokin.
Only killed a few coyotes with it so far, but have not been disappointed.
If my other reamer will ever get here, I am going to neck down a 204 and build a BB gun just for the hell of it.
Stay after them
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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