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Author
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Topic: Can we have a serious discussion about shotguns for coyotes?
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted January 18, 2012 10:54 PM
My experience runs counter to what most good shotgunners advise, which is the method Shaw laid out. I "aim" every firearm I shoot, rifle,shotgun or handgun. If I don't aim, I find I usually miss.
I held the record for a particular speed shotgun match in southern Arizona, bowling pin shooting. Five pins,25 feet away on a five foot high table,four feet in depth,with pins placed one foot back from the front edge, and spaced one foot apart. Start was low ready, shotgun not in shoulder, but muzzle forward, butt just above the hip. Pins had to be hit good to completely clear them off the table.
I shot a Rem 1100 with extended mag tube,pistol grip, and just a bead for front sight. My time of 2.17 seconds held until they quit holding the matches(pins became to expensive). I still aim my shotgun every time I shoot it, whether at birds,or clays.
I shot trap and sporting clays for a few years, and considered my self fairly competent, never beat the best guys, but could hang with them. They always tried to get me to change from "aiming" to what the conventional wisdom of proper shotgun mount and technique is, but I just couldn't break my ingrained aiming technique.
Im amazed watching a fine shotgunner, and realizing the sonofabitch is hitting those fast targets instinctually, or so it appears.
[ January 18, 2012, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
Posts: 1629 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 12:53 PM
Vic, that's where I'm at. And, that's why this EOTECH has the appeal for me. I have a bit of confidence that it is going to work out well for GROUND SLUICING hard chargers. Oh yeah, I have great appreciation for those natural pointers, until, that is, when they can't comprehend that some folks don't have the "point and click" gene.
Good hunting. LB
edit: ...and yes, I'm much better at trap than skeet. Okay, more accurately: mediocre, and stinks.
[ January 19, 2012, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 19, 2012 02:21 PM
So put that eo-thingie on one of those AR uppers and have at it.
Thought we'd forget didn't you?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 19, 2012 02:28 PM
Here it is guys.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 03:49 PM
There you go, a killing machine if I ever saw one.
Good luck, El Bee
edit: hope it don't mess with your precise length of pull?
[ January 19, 2012, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 19, 2012 04:24 PM
"hope it don't mess with your precise length of pull?"
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Nah, the original length of pull was longer than I like, and this gun was easy to fix that. I simply removed a spacer that was located just forward of recoil pad. That spacer was about 1" long, or a little less. This gun also has spacers to change cast on, cast off and other neat little things. The Beretta manual suggests hiring a gunsmith for this kind of work, but I am a pretty good fixer sometimes. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 05:59 PM
You haven't killed anything with it yet? How did it pattern? Get off the couch, dude! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. El Byee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 06:58 PM
Hey, guess what I got in the mail today? Yup; got the Black Diamond Assault Choke. Pretty good service, in my opinion. And, it turns out I will have the time to run to the range and check the pattern before my big hunt. Might not be able to sleep tonight. lol
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 19, 2012 08:20 PM
"You haven't killed anything with it yet? How did it pattern? Get off the couch, dude!"
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Hey it just arrived today. I have the installation and rough alignment of the red dot completed already. Pretty dang good for an old fart don't ya think? I hope to get out tomorrow for more precise point of impact adjustments. I see that your new choke tube arrived today. Where are the photos of your patterns? Oh right, you had to take a nap and sit in front of boob tube for awhile right? LOL On a more serious note, I really do hope that the new choke tube shoots nice tight and dense patterns for you sir.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 09:11 PM
I will say this, if looks could kill, this rig should do the job.
Hey look, when I got around to checking the mail, it was after 6:00 o'clock and around these parts, it's pitch dark! Not the time to drive into the mountains, and up that canyon. It's quiet, dark and a little spooky. It's a mile and a half off the road, they are installing a cell tower but it's not operational, yet. Not a place for a flat, in the middle of the night.
One of the things I like about the WEGC is that I have 24/7 access, the gate is locked but members have the combination. Daytime is better, in this case. Please be patient.
Good hunting. LB
[ January 19, 2012, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 20, 2012 05:50 AM
Well Shucks, I thought that you were an old night hunter Leonard.
http://www.cronkpredatorcalls.com/sounds/RcCash.mp3
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 20, 2012 09:21 AM
I got an email from Victor Gray! He's willing to sell me back that 11-48, but only if I let him buy lunch. I don't know if I can do that; I always buy lunch?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2012 12:49 PM
Leonard,
Here are a couple of photo's of this morning's patterning results. Fodder was Winchester 3&1/2" #4 BUCK (54 pellet). These patterns were shot with Beretta Extema2. Choke is Kicks Industries .680 "Gobbling Thunder"
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 12:55 PM
I'm leaving pretty soon, I still haven't patterned this new choke. Creeks been too high.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 05:38 PM
This is 40 yards
It's Winchester 12 gauge 3½" #4BUCK (54 pellets)
I could count 49 or 50 if I included a couple on the board, to the right? But, I think there is at least one double hole, so essentially, they are all there in about an 18" pattern. The point of aim was the white square and I adjusted the EOTECH down one click.
This load kicks like a friggin' mule!
Good hunting. LB
[ January 27, 2012, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RonFin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3483
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posted January 27, 2012 06:46 PM
Rich, those are killer patterns, especially the 40 yard. The 50 would do too.
Been waitin' for your Speed Bead report...You likey?
Fortunately Tundra Wookies latest e-caller report has provided us with plenty of entertainment this week. It's like a group of scientific theory guys vs a guest from the Jerry Springer show.
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2012 07:49 PM
RonFin,
Yes, I do like the speed bead. I want to put together a large square of cardboard, maybe 30" or so and check my pattern from 40 yards, just to see how well I am centered ya know? No hurry, because I have a coyote killer just the way it is. The head scratcher is that I still have some Hevi shot "T,s" and I know that they are striking higher than the #4 Buck. I am gonna shoot the #4 BUCK for rest of this season, kill a few coyotes, and THEN figure the rest out. I haven't read all of the CS-24 thread on other board, but I have quite a lot of respect for the knowledge of Snowcamoman in regard to E callers. Hey, are you related to Huckleberry Fin? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Edited for spelling
[ January 27, 2012, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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RonFin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3483
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posted January 27, 2012 08:41 PM
Rich,
I plan to start doing some "shotgun only" stands next season. So will spend the summer learning to shoot, patterning and such. Recently purchased the Beretta A400 Extreme with KO. I believe it's the replacement for the 391 Extrema. Right now I've begun to learn how to shoot a shotgun at clays. Next will be choosing a choke to use with the same WinXB12L4 3 1/2's that you, LB, and some others are using for 50 yard kills.
I'm expecting the recoil while focused on a coyote will be ok. Patterning may be a different story.
I'm really a shotgun novice and am enjoying learning to shoot with both eyes open. Maybe the speed bead will be a shortcut since I only will use the shotgun for coyotes.
I was refering to the ongoing posts here on e-callers. Only thing I follow at PM is the 35 page post on shotgun patterning. Yep, the Alaskan and GC have the testing and comparrison of e-callers covered for the rest of us.
Regarding your Hevi Shot, won't you just re-sight for them, shoot 'em and re-sight again? Like returning to zero on a rifle scope?
Never thought about the Huck Fin relationship, but I have been tricked into painting (whitewashing?) a few fences.
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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RonFin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3483
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posted January 27, 2012 08:46 PM
LB,
Was in your area to buy and pick-up my new shotgun. PSA. John said he has an onging coyote problem in the canyon behind his house. I figured it must be illegal to shoot there. If not, maybe you have an area close to home to do live testing?
Posts: 39 | From: San Bernardino County, CA | Registered: Sep 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 10:24 PM
No, I'm a member at The West End Gun Club, which has a postal address here in Upland, but the range is off of Lydle Creek Road and up the canyon. There is a sign on the highway. You have to cross Lydle Creek.
I wouldn't do any shooting in the foothills although there are plenty of coyotes, we see them on my street frequently and once, in my back yard, actually running along the top of the block wall like the neighborhood cats. I have called coyotes in the canyons on both sides of town, they are here, for sure. (I have been tempted, sorely tempted)
I am very sure that a semi-auto would be a lot less punishing than this pump I am using.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I am positive I will be bruised, by tomorrow morning..... I still feel it!
[ January 27, 2012, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2012 10:27 PM
"Regarding your Hevi Shot, won't you just re-sight for them, shoot 'em and re-sight again? Like returning to zero on a rifle scope?"
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Yep! I just have to settle on what I want to use, which isn't easy for a guy like me. Kinda like deciding which Gal, er--I mean which GUN to take along on the next calling stand. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 10:32 PM
What are you paying for the #4Buck, Rich? I stopped at BassProshops on the way back from the range and bought two more boxes. $10. I think it was $21.50 with tax?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 10:59 PM
This choke I have is .745", just like the first factory choke I tried, which gave me a 16X30 pattern.
I scribed a 9" paper plate in the exact center of the pattern, and counted 13 hits, with three more within a quarter inch. I think it's a pretty good coverage, considering they are all within an 18" circle? Not "ALL" to be perfectly honest, but what is the percentage of birdshot they use when the talk about a 30" circle? Is there not a percentage that they consider a passing grade? It sure as hell ain't over 93%, is it?
Good hunting. LB
[ January 27, 2012, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2012 11:53 PM
Took me long enough!
How choke is determined. Choke is determined for all shotguns by the amount of shot it delivers within a 30" circle at 40yds.
(1) Cylinder bore-40%
(2) Improved cylinder-50%
(3) Modified-60%
(4) Full-70%
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 28, 2012 08:11 AM
LEONARD,
I paid a bit over 9.00 per box, but after shipping charges it was probably a bit more than the 10.00 you paid. By the way, your new choke ain't .745, ya Boob.
"I looked at their website. The operative word on the choke I bought is "Strike" and it's intended for turkey. If it had said; Black Diamond Assault then it's for coyotes and the choke is (I think?) .710", not .675" which is the turkey model/Strike."
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I believe that you sent the .675 Strike back and traded it for the .710 Assault. You are getting decent patterns with the new Assault, so I have to say that you did good.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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