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Author
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Topic: Why don't you HANDLOAD?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 24, 2004 06:29 PM
And, what do you HANDLOAD?
Can you give us your reasons why you don't handload?
Maybe we can change your mind? Handloading your own ammunition has so many benefits.
I was loading a hundred rounds this afternoon, and got to looking around. I have twenty sets of dies, in addition to the Wilson neck sizers and straight line seating dies. I have fifteen different powders on the shelf. Not really enough, have let it get a little low, lately. I handload everything I own except 25Auto and shotshells.
So, the question of the day is: What's stopping you?
For those that do; a small, informal survey.
What do you handload for? Rifle, handgun, shotshells? How much shooting do you do, annually/WAG? How long have you been so engaged? Whatever you want to talk about is okay with me.
Good hunting. LB
edit: try this site for a refresher:
http://www.aeroballisticsonline.com/
[ June 24, 2004, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted June 24, 2004 11:19 PM
Leonard,
You made a pretty good case there for not handloading. You pointed out most of the negatives but none of the positives.
I don't think I have shot a factory rifle load for 35 years or longer. I may have shot a pistol load as recently as 30 years ago.
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 24, 2004 11:44 PM
Hey, be my guest, Jack.
If I was negative, it wasn't intentional. I personally believe every person that shoots a centerfire rifle or pistol should get into handloading. But, the various reasons are a little like peeling back layers, they don't realize what they don't know, and almost always think it's a means to save money. (not hardly)Handloading makes for a more enlightened shooter.
So, what's your story?
Hello? LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted June 25, 2004 05:04 AM
Leonard,
I handload for everything but my rimfires. None of my centerfire rifles have ever shot a factory round.
The last factory stuff I bought was for a handgun, and I bought it because I needed the brass. I brought the box home, shot it up, then reloaded it the way that I wanted it.
It just doesn't seem right to have someone else decide what is best for my rifles.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted June 25, 2004 06:36 AM
Same as Tim. Except for 10 rounds of .223 that were given to me once, not one of my centerfire rifle barrels has ever had a single round of factory ammo down it. Not in my entire life!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 25, 2004 09:28 AM
You fellas, I knew that much. But who out there doesn't want to get into it because it seems like a pain in the butt? Or, whatever reason? Any volunteers?
Good hunting. LB
confession: my SKS has seen some factory rounds.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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GCrock
Knows what it's all about
Member # 351
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posted June 25, 2004 11:06 AM
Leonard,
I'll take a stab at it from a non-reloaders point of view. The reasons I don't reload are as follows:
-lack of knowledge on how to do it--I have several friends who said they would show me once I got the equipment, but I don't even know where to start at this point.
-Time. I barely have time to hunt let alone sit down and reload shells. I have 2 young kids, and they take up a suprising amount of my time.
-The volume of shooting that I do is very small compared to lots of guys. Would I shoot more if I reloaded? Probably so. In my area, the coyotes have been hit hard by mange and other diseases, I just don't shoot a lot of shells at coyotes.
-Factory ammo is pretty good. I don't go out and punch paper to see how many gnats I can hit--3 shots within an inch is good enough for me, good enough hunting accuracy.
-Friends who reload. I have a couple friends who reloaded shells for my 221 fireball and 220 swift. They are not "perfect" for these rifles, but they are pretty darn good.
What I think I'm giving up is performance (limited to factory ammo bullets at factory speeds). Also, I am paying more for it (the swift is a perfect example)when I buy factory.
I feel I am making better use of my time by hunting instead of reloading. Will it cost me an animal or two? Yes. Will I have more time to get out and hunt? Yes. That's how I look at it. By the way, great place you have here Leonard.
Greg C.
Posts: 17 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jun 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 25, 2004 11:43 AM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, GCrock. Glad to have you on board.
Wow! For a first post, you pretty much nailed it. All the reasons I might have suspected, and it's too bad, really. Hunting with your own handloads offers much satisfaction, and confidence. It's good therapy, part of the ritual in preparing for the hunt.
As far as spending more time hunting, versus "reloading" well, that has never been a legit issue, for me. I might as well say that mowing the lawn keeps me from hunting, if you get my drift? But, buying all the stuff needed, is a major undertaking, no question about that.
And, I completely understand the mystery angle. Absolutely the best method of getting started is to arm-bend a friend. Hardly anyone likes to be perceived as ignorant, so they don't ask. Instead, they might say that they just don't have the time, or the interest.
I don't know? At one time, it wasn't so hard to jump in with both feet, but now, it seems that there is always something else we need?
I remember, way back when; I used to buy Hodgdon's 4831 in the square paper canister for $1.95 per pound. In fact, I still have one, from before they started marking the date. I have a "can" (just the can) of H414 and H380, as well, and both have a 1975 date, but the 4831 is probably from the sixties? Don't know why I have kept them in the loading room? Just keepsake, maybe?
Now, the price is way too much, and then there is that phoney shipping charge for hazardous material. Bullets haven't gone up nearly as much as has powder, wonder why?
Okay, enough strolling down memory lane.
Good post. Thanks for sharing.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted June 25, 2004 12:15 PM
If it is “factory” fix it. Guns or ammo. LOL That’s my take.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted June 25, 2004 06:05 PM
I don't reload either. Same reasons as above.
I don't shoot that much. I sight in, shoot a few crows over the summer, maybe a gopher or a skunk from time to time and then just predators all winter. Most of my shots are well within 200 yards and all my rifles will shoot just fine to that range and usually a lot farther. I just haven't found a need to do something else with my limited time.
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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AllPredatorCalls.com
PAKMAN
Member # 347
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posted June 25, 2004 06:48 PM
I also stopped reloading a few years back.. and stored all my rcbs gear & dies. Many reasons - to include shooting a bow and bow hunting, ATVing, coyote hunting, all in my "spare time" after trying to build a business and run it 12 hours a day 7 days a week. If a boiled it down to one reason, I guess its TIME.. NOT ENOUGH OF IT..
I'm well aware of the better accuracy you can achieve when you work up a well tested load reloading.. With that said, One of the reasons I recently convinced myself to buy a rem 700 in .204 ruger is to be able to take advantage of the factory ammo that produces 4200+ fps with solid accuracy as reported by a few firearms writers that I respect... Guess I'll see..
AP
Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted June 25, 2004 09:51 PM
What's stopping me...
Dyslexia.
I cannot deal with numbers reliably enough to feel safe...
I do reload shotshells with our Pacific progressive press, but that's becuase it does all the thinking part for me... powder is die measured, and so is the shot... no way I can get 81 gr instead of 18 ![[Wink]](wink.gif) (not like 81 gr would fit, but you understand my fears?)
Red does the rifles, and I cannot ever remember buying factory ammo for any of them.
I hate paper punching... I really hate ladder testing... and I hate the range most of all...
I like just field shootin, I seem to be better at it, and can't shoot a group under an inch to save my life, Red can get inside a dime with the same gun I shoot 2"... but I can hit a rock 600yds away.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted June 26, 2004 10:07 AM
Well I'm like most of you guys here,I have always reloaded for my guns.Never shoot factory ammo so I can't say if it's worth it or not.I agree with Tim that I don't want somebody else deciding what's best for my guns.GOOD HUNTING C.O
[ June 26, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 26, 2004 10:55 AM
About what I expected, you either do or you don't, except for one twist. I am surprised at the response from AP, he used to; but he got tired of it. The way I have (had) it figured, almost everybody that handloads is (are) diehards, can't ever see them changing.
Krusty's problem would never have occured to me, although my son has the same attitude about punching paper. Bare minimum. Only gets interested in live targets.
I tend to think that varmint and predator hunters would have the highest percentage of handloaders, overall.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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AllPredatorCalls.com
PAKMAN
Member # 347
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posted June 26, 2004 04:51 PM
Leonard, not "tired". I really enjoyed it.. but I aso really enjoy shooting bow, ATVing, 2 kids under 8, business... TIME and a dedicate space in my jam packed garage are my reasons..
AP
Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 26, 2004 05:20 PM
Sorry about that, Mr Jones. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) But, you might be back one of these days, especially if that incurable disease "accuracy" bites you.
But, you know, keeping your stuff safe and secure from the kids is what prompted me to build a special room with three locks, just for handloading. I try to avoid the word: "reloading"
because it conveys a sense of being second rate. It's far from second rate;
more like superior.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jim B
Knows what it's all about
Member # 343
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posted June 26, 2004 07:30 PM
I dont reload at the moment.
I am still trying to figure out if the benefits outweigh the expense and time.
I have a source locally that is a small shop reloader that will custom load any combination of bullet and cartridge that I wish for about half of anything off of the shelf at the local gun shops. His ammo is well better than average, maybe not as good as I could do maybe as good. His prices are such that there is a very small cost differential to be saved per box of shells. I could never in 5 years break even on the cost of equipment.
I do not have high volume shooting available to me and what I do have I can accomplish (heresy, I know) with the military surplus .223. I also shoot a number one in .243 but it really does not get a terribly large amount of shooting at any one time.
So, the advantages for me are that I could marginally get better ammo crafted for my specific rifles, the cost per box of shells would be somewhat less, and I would just get the satisfaction of knowing that I put together the cartridge that I just fired.
The disadvantage to me would be the initial outlay in money to purchase equipment and supplies. This money could be used to pay for a hunting trip where I could use factory ammo to kill a deer or a coyote or a pig. If I buy the equipment I will have exceeding good ammo and correspondingly less opportunity to use it on filling my freezer.
I am not saying that factory ammo is better than reloads but in my circumstances and hunting endeavors my ammo/rifle capabilities are much better than that required for me hit a deer with.
In other words, I do not have a NEED to reload in order to be successful.
Jim
Posts: 17 | From: Madison, Alabama | Registered: May 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted June 26, 2004 07:50 PM
Nine calibers that I shoot are wildcats, so I have no option but to hand/reload. I have no idea how factory rounds perform in my centerfire rifles, each one shoots custom loads specifically tailored for that individual rifle. Tyler and I both have TC Carbines in .223 and we have to keep our ammo seperate because both use different loads. Not a big problem.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted June 26, 2004 07:52 PM
You'll never "save money" by handloading. Hell, for quite awhile, I was shooting upwards of 10,000 rounds of centerfire a year at prairie dogs, jack rabbits and rock chucks, and I've never come close to breaking even on equipment and supplies. Maybe a high volume target shooter, especially pistol or shotgun, might actually come out ahead by handloading, but there is no way I ever will. It would be MUCH less expensive for me to shoot factory ammo. Of course, anymore, there's no such thing as factory ammo for most of my rifles...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 26, 2004 08:11 PM
Jim, I see your point, completely. Getting someone else to load for you is a step in the right direction, but. Personally, I wouldn't load for somebody else if they paid me, my time is too valuable.
The one thing, there is no excaping the fact that handloaders are generally a lot more knowledgeable shooters. They have done their homework and are not hazy about their numbers; velocity, drop, mid range trajectory, all that stuff. Folks that buy factory ammo with different lot numbers can't even be assured that the next box they buy will shoot to the same spot. And, it probably won't.
On a max load, I would not want to be responsible doing a guy a favor. You wouldn't have the opportunity for testing and determining just what is the best compromise between performance and safety; in his gun.
I hear you on the pay back. You might as well forget that. It is not a means of saving money. On the other hand, pure money cannot buy the best hand tailored ammunition, so it's hard to put a value on it. Shooting deer at a hundred yards doesn't require the finest accuracy, that's true enough.
But, there is a separation between handloaders and those that shoot factory ammunition. Factory folks almost never get into a conversation about minimum hide damage, or suitable bullets for a specific rifling twist, etc. And, that provides for endless and ernest discussion, you can believe that!
Good hunting LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted June 26, 2004 09:10 PM
I even build the airplanes I fly. Yes, that probably doesn't save any money either, but I get what I want.
What I want is important to me and the only way to get that in the shooting sports is to handload.
On a basic level, handloading can be cheaper. To do it really well, it will not be cheaper, but sure will be better.
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 26, 2004 10:32 PM
quote:
Of course, anymore, there's no such thing as factory ammo for most of my rifles...
- DAA
What he means here, is just like what Rich is saying: they are shooting nonfactory cartridges, Wildcats or Improved, and that means there is work to be done at the loading bench long before they can pull the trigger. You usually don't do that, unless you can gain some advantage. Not entirely true, some people just want to be different, but most guys see a distinct improvement over handloaded standard cartridges. A lot of work for incremental improvements, but some feel it's worth it. But, when it works, there is no comparison, the level of performance is beyond what you can buy, off the shelf. These guys are dedicated nuts.
(with all due respect)
Good hunting. LB
[ June 26, 2004, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jim B
Knows what it's all about
Member # 343
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posted June 27, 2004 05:02 AM
I am going to the handloading side of the force slowly but surely. One of the driving forces is that I really do want either a 6.5-284 or a 6.5-06, or a 6.5 WSM. Seems if I do break down and get a wildcat cartridge then I will be in the position of being required to reload. Once I have the basic equipment then I will reload them all.
Jim
Posts: 17 | From: Madison, Alabama | Registered: May 2004
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted June 27, 2004 07:52 AM
A caveat, Jim B. There are no twelve step programs for addicted loaders.
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted June 27, 2004 09:14 AM
Also with reloading comes a sense of satisfaction. It makes me feel more apart of what I do. I square all of my brass and the the primer pockets, chamfer both the necks and the flash hole and clean up the necks with my K&M neck turner. All of the charges for my coyote loads will get weighed individually and close attention is paid to the OAL of the cartage. When I am done I have a product that I can be 100% confidant in. Confidants in your rifle and ammunition are critical. (for me anyway.)
There are some great factory rounds available but in most cases you can squeeze out better accuracy and velocity (performance) by hand rolling your own.
I primarily shoot a custom rifle with a trued receiver, tuned trigger, match grade stainless steel barrel, competition recoil lug, titanium alloy firing pen with Wolf Springs and a Harris/McMillan extractor. Shooting “factory” ammo through this rifle would be like running unleaded gas through a dragster. LOL It defeats the purpose.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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