This is topic Case runout problems? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000159
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on April 28, 2005, 08:38 PM:
Looking at .17 AH cases. 
Checking this way I find a max reading of 0.0065-0.007" runout. Good, bad, really ugly? Anyone still awake? Loren
[ April 28, 2005, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Doggitter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2005, 10:17 PM:
Never heard of this before? Possibly you have a badly damaged or bulged chamber, from a blue pill, assuming that what you are "spinning" is a fired case? You have the case set up in the V blocks unconventionally. Is that a rimmed case?
What I check, when I check such things, is runout on the bullet itself.
Good hunting. LB
[ April 28, 2005, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 29, 2005, 05:38 AM:
I don't ever check that end. When I do mine, it is to check the necks to see if they need to be turned. Or the bullet in the loaded round, to see if they were seated straight.
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on April 29, 2005, 06:25 AM:
I started checking like this because I noticed a section of ring at the head/body area. Just on one side. On some I also noticed the rim running out of perpendicular to the body and am tying to figure if it's a problem. This is a new chamber I just cut, old chamber was also doing the same thing. I'm guessing that since both chambers are making the same results maybe not bother, but it could be a deeper problem for all I know. Oh, yeah Leonard, it's a 17 AH.
[ April 29, 2005, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: Doggitter ]
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 29, 2005, 07:19 AM:
Did you check the face of the bolt or head spacing...Loose or tight lockup,Don't know anything else that would cause it
Posted by Melvin (Member # 634) on April 29, 2005, 07:31 AM:
Also bolt may not be inlighnment with barrel...Alowing slight pressure on a loaded round when chambered
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on April 29, 2005, 05:54 PM:
Is it a light colored ring just ahead of the web? It could indicate the brass is stretching.
Open up a paper clip and bend just 1/8" or less 90* poke it down into the neck and run it up and down. Can you feel a "Valley" in your fired, but unsized brass, usually just above the web?
It could be that your FL sizing dies are set down too far, and it's over working the brass. It will stretch out until it gets so weak the base will come off. ( That sucks ) It never seems to happen to me when I am close to home and have the stuff to get the rest of the brass out of the chamber.
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on April 29, 2005, 06:32 PM:
Thanks Melvin. It's a Low Wall Original Winchester. 
I have been checking several cases with tight fitting pin gauges in the neck, V's under just behind the shoulder and another 5/8th inch back. On the fired only cases I get 5-6 thou. as worst, first step neck sizing with a die I made brings that to up to 17 thousandths. Switching to Bullberry's two ended die produces 6-7 thou as a second step. Third step with my die makes it to about 10, switching to the second end on bullberry's die again is possibly better but it crushes the shoulders.
Big question of the night is; how much runout would you deem acceptable checking the way I am? Thanks for the help folks. Loren
[ April 29, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Doggitter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2005, 10:20 PM:
Checking what you have there, and treating the plug as if it were a seated bullet, I would worry if I got 3 thousandths runout, if I were using a Wilson type seating die and an arbor press. I think about .001½ is acceptable, for a hunting application?
However. I'm still a little hazy on what you are trying to do.
Good hunting. LB
edit: when you spin that case, you need a rear stop against the head of the case to prevent horizontal movement.
[ April 29, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Jack Roberts (Member # 13) on April 29, 2005, 10:27 PM:
There are several problems here. I can only guess that the biggest problem is poor brass, non-uniform wall thickness.
Too much resizing and a not concentric chamber could be factors.
Jack
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on April 30, 2005, 08:05 AM:
Looks like I'm doing a job I shouldn't be.
The more checking I do I come up with more questions.
This is a paying(??) job producing .17 AH rounds made from 22 Hornet ammo. Lots of "shouldn't be doing it that way"s along the way.
This last is checking an empty theu mailed to me. Neck ID is .166". How they seat a bullet in that is baffling. The neck is funnel shaped to a visible amount. Runout on that checking the same way as in the last picture comes up with .010". I talked to the reamer maker that's working for the barrel company and his OAL on the case is 1.409", 0.009" longer than the factory round. BUT,,, the case they sent me is 1.350--0.050" shorter than factory. Factory "trim to" length is 1.390".
Where's Paul Harvey when you need him?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2005, 08:44 AM:
Reading the tea leaves, I think it is possible that you are attempting to fabricate an Ackley case from a standard Hornet. I don't know anyone that does it this way. Proven technique is to fireform to the chamber dimensions.
I'm still a little hazy. LB
Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on April 30, 2005, 09:01 AM:
Your process assesment is correct.
Yep, that's one of the "should be done that way"s. I just got to talk to the folks again and it has come to light that accuaracy is not and issue, at all. Consistent velocity readings are, at this point. Goes against all the 25 years of reloading I've done so far. I didn't even consider producing inaccurate ammo because every time I load I've tried to do better than before and as good as I can get. Well, not literally, but you get the drift. amazing. I told him I'm going to start calling him Paul. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0