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Author
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Topic: 25-06 Ackley Improved
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted October 10, 2005 06:31 AM
Hye fellas.I have been working on a rifle for over a year buying components as I went and it is with the smith.It is almost finished now.My Redding dies await it and a selection of Sierra bullets is on my loading room shelf for it.I had it built to be an extreme range coyote rifle.(I have plenty of rifles capable of 300 plus yard shots but this was just too cool ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .My question is do any of you fellas shoot a 25-06 Ack?I have RL22 I use for my 7MM Rem Mag and standard 25-06Rem and IMR 4831 for my 300 Win Mag.I know that this AI cartridge requires slow burning powder to take advantage of the velocity potential but just wondering from anyone with experience with it what you would reccomend as a good starting pwoder?
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http://www.handloadersbench.com
Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 10, 2005 08:16 AM
I have had three 25'06 and two of them have been Ackleys, so I have developed a clear preference in loads.
My first opinion was that W760 and H4831 were the correct powders, and I decided that the best choice in bullet weight is 100 grain.
With the rifle I have now, I got some good advice on powder, which I would probably not have tried, on my own. R-22 gives me much higher velocity than I could get with the other powders, although it is very close to the same charge weight, right out of the book for standard 25'06; 57.0 grains.
I get very consistant 3600-3650 fps, depending on ambient temperature.
As far as bullets, I have been using 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips for several years, grouping about .500" for five. I started screwing around with the 75 gr. VMax for shorter ranges and came up with a 57.0 gr. of #2700 which chronographs at 4,000fps!
A couple years ago, I switched to a 96.5 grain Starke and the same amount of R-22. It averages about 25 fps faster than the Nosler, and is slightly more accurate than the Noslers, but not as good as the VMax, of which, I have shot a few groups in the ¼" range!
I have also used the 110 gr. Berger, and it has good potential at long range, although I really have not worked with it enough to decide if it is superior to the others. I don't want to waste all my accurate barrel life punching paper.
All I can tell you at this point is that the Nosler is an excellent all around game bullet and great on long range coyotes, with acceptable accuracy. The Starke has not seen anything larger than an average coyote, and the VMax, same thing, but it is devastating; a virtual train wreck every time.
I use 270 Winchester brass for the extra length and the large primer hole. Case life is excellent. I use 210 Match primers in all loads.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted October 10, 2005 08:24 AM
Thanks for your information Leonard.I am going to file that in my desk.For some reason there is not a lot of info people want to share on this particular AI.
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http://www.handloadersbench.com
Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted October 10, 2005 10:25 AM
I have one as well. Never chrono it, but its damn sure a shooter.
I shoot 75gr VMax for blowin stuff up and 100 gr Nosler PT on deer. However, I havent had too good of luck with the PT. Wont hold together for penetration. Im going to shoot some different bullets this fall. Probably Hornady. Or Triple Shocks.
With 58 1/2gr of 4831, that VMax is about as destructive of a bullet as I have ever fired.....
Good luck
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted October 10, 2005 04:53 PM
Leonard,
Seems like I remember your .25-06 Ackley having a slow twist barrel. One in twelve?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 10, 2005 07:16 PM
even slower, Rich. 1-13.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted October 11, 2005 05:44 AM
Leonard,
My .257 Ackley has a one in twelve twist. It seems that my rifle requires larger charges of powder in the case than loads I see being tested in one in ten twist barrels. Did you find that to be true with your .25-06 Ackley? I have a feeling that the slow twist barrels create less friction and therefore require more powder in order to build the pressures needed for high velocities.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 11, 2005 09:10 AM
I don't see that, but it is usually just a simple matter of stabilization.
How many RPM do we need to stabilize a given bullet? How do we increase the RPM? Faster twist barrel; but also by increasing the muzzle velocity. Increase the powder capacity, also. The more powder you burn, the more velocity, the better you stabilize, but that is only part of the situation.
I look for at least 190,000 RPM and try not to exceed 325,000, so that certain bullets don't explode in flight. How we all get to that point is what we are talking about.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted October 11, 2005 11:02 AM
This is a little off topic, I read a post one time that on AI chamberings you get a 50% increase on velocity for every grain of powder increase.
An example would be 40 grains of powder gives you 4000 ft/sec on the original chambering. 41grs gives you 4050 on the AI.
Anybody else hear the same thing?
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 11, 2005 12:30 PM
No, never heard of that, Dennis? And, it don't make too much sense, to me, either?
By your example, that is about the capacity of a 22-250 or a 220Swift, in most suitable powders. But, it depends a great deal on the bullet weight. Most of my Swift loads are under 42 grains of powder (55-63gr. bullet)but my 22-250 uses 44 grains of H414 with a 65 grain bullet. I could start to believe some of your numbers if it refered to very light bullets, like 40-45 grain. But only in general terms; one grain of powder couldn't(?) make that much difference, unless you had a case capacity more like a 223, maybe necked down to a subcaliber?
We have to be careful discussing specifics, in general terms because there are always exceptions to the exceptions, etc.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted October 11, 2005 05:41 PM
Hey Leonard.Just wondering why you went with a 1 in 13" twist?I assume you were gonna primarily use yours as a light bullet platform.I went with a 26 inch barrel and 1 in 10 inch twist.I will also use it for winter wheat field shots on whitetails with a heavier bullet if I like its performance.I love the standard 25-06 Remington so Im hoping this will just be a bonus with the Improved chamber..
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http://www.handloadersbench.com
Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 11, 2005 07:57 PM
Yes, TG. I had a good reason, although I can't find the formula, maybe I lost it? But, basically, the reason is as I said above. Supposedly, the accuracy gurus like to keep their RPM around 190,000RPM? So, if you know the predicted velocity with a given range of bullets, I had a chart that I could go down one column and line it up with various velocities and the top column would show the twist required to achieve that particular RPM.
I should look around, the subject has come up before and I do a crummy job of explaining it?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jack Roberts
Knows what it's all about
Member # 13
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posted October 11, 2005 08:50 PM
You looking for the "Greenhill formula" Leonard?
(t)(l)=150
or solving for t, t=150/l
t being twist
l being bullet length
Both t and l have to be expressed in the number of calibers. i.e. divide the inch measurement by the caliber to get that dimension in calibers.
Jack
Posts: 499 | From: Elko NV formerly MD | Registered: Jan 2003
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