This is topic Tubb ?? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 31, 2006, 11:31 PM:
Anyone here ever use the David Tubb Final Finish?? I'm hearing good things about it & am wondering if it's worth it. Thanx!
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 01, 2006, 06:14 AM:
I've never tried it. The idea of shooting sand coated bullets down my Barrel, just doesn't appeal to me.
I have used JB's Bore Paste on a couple of factory barrels and liked the results. If you want to give the JB's a try, just drop me a note with a shipping address. At the rate I use it, this bottle will go bad before half of it is gone.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 01, 2006, 08:01 AM:
Tim, email sent. Thanx!!!
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 01, 2006, 04:10 PM:
And your package went out in this mornings mail!
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on June 01, 2006, 08:17 PM:
Tim,does'nt bore paste actually remove metal from the bore,the black on the patch is metal residue?Some Smiths shy away from the stuff?????Gary
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 01, 2006, 08:37 PM:
Yeah, it does, but I think it's a little not a problem, if it is done correctly. In other words, that paste can help a rough bore, at least it did for me once? I used it for what must have been two weeks? Afterwards, that rifle was shooting ½" groups at 200 yards. Might not work every time, but when indicated, what have you got to lose? And, it is avery fine compound, takes a lot of elbow grease to produce minute' changes.
Good hunting. LB
edit: besides that, a gunsmiths' best interest is in selling you another barrel, rather than selling you a five dollar jar of paste.
[ June 01, 2006, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 01, 2006, 08:39 PM:
Sparky,
It sure does remove metal. Just not a lot. With those Tubb's bullets, you have several different grades of abrasive coated to the bullet, you start at coarse and work your way to fine.
To my line of thinking, that's got to be pure hell on your throat. Each shot starts off on the one place that you really don't want eroded, and has more abrasive at that point than at any other while traveling the length of your barrel.
By hand lapping with something like Butch's bore paste, you can push the patch with the bore paste past the throat once, and never touch it again, by working the rod back and forth you can concentrate your efforts on any rough or tight spots. Or simply take a little of the edge off of the lands.
Some bullets ( IE Berger match bullets ) have very thin jackets. Shooting them down a rough barrel at high speeds will cut into the jacket and the RPM's produced will literally cause the bullet to self destruct in mid air! Hand lapping can really help to take those rough edges away and get you a little more life, or a little more accuracy out of that barrel.
[ June 01, 2006, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on June 01, 2006, 09:02 PM:
Well said!!
Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on June 02, 2006, 06:01 AM:
If you wont a bore you have to look at with a welding hood. Start with JB's. The use smokers toothpaste.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 02, 2006, 07:20 AM:
I can see that I'm going to need another bag of cleaning patches. Or two. Like most of my projects, this started out simple. I got a deal on a pre-owned Mini-14 for use as a 50 to 150 yard coyote rifle.
Quick once over with the cleaning kit.......6 inch groups.
2 hours of cleaning later......4 inch groups
Switch to Black Hills 52 grn h/p.....3 inch groups
Since 3 inches is about 1/2 minute of coyote kill zone, I started hunting with it, with the understanding that 'this ain't no long range performer'. As a close to mid-range rifle I've been pretty happy with it even though it has a trigger from hell. But.....I got to wondering if it would do better.
An after-market synthetic stock & 2 days of barrel cleaning......2 inch groups. (The original owner must have been one of those 'crank off a couple of thirty round clips & lay a hot-dog on the barrel to cook for lunch' guys.)
Now I'm curious to see how much more improvement I can get.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 02, 2006, 08:18 AM:
Oh God! STOP! STOP! We've been Snopped, call urban legend! The above comments pertain to semi-accurate bolt guns.
Shoot a 20 round magazine in a Mini 14 and then switch to an AR. One of those guns is a piece of crap. Shouldn't take you long to decide which?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 02, 2006, 08:54 AM:
I've always heard that 2 MOA was damned good for a mini 14.
To find one that shot 1 MOA was only a fantasy or a fluke.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 02, 2006, 12:29 PM:
Below is a repost of my answer to the exact same question several years ago. It was enough typing that I saved it. My apologies to those who might have seen it before and not appreciate the "re-post".
==============================================
I havn't used the Tubb kit, but I have firelapped a few barrels. It's a procedure that has been around for a long time now.
My biased opinion, based on a little bit of experience only... First thing I'd say is DO NOT firelap a barrel you care about unless you have a good reason for it. If you have some defined problems with the barrel, that you believe will possibly be solved or at least mitigated by the firelapping procedure, then you might consider proceeding. I sure wouldn't go blasting grit down a perfectly good barrel just "to try it" though.
One of the side effects you can count on, is moving the throat forward. Just how much depends on a lot of variables. Variables include but not limited to existing throat condition, grit size used, number of grit coated bullets fired, velocity of gritted bullets, jacketed or lead, engaging lands or jumped, frequency of cleaning during firelapping, etc., etc., etc...
The ones I've done washed the throat out from .035 to .080. I've heard from several individuals that they have firelapped barrels with no throat wash. May be, but it is difficult for me to conceptualize how that is really possible. I can easily see how one could end up with less wash than I have though – the ones I did were in bad shape and needed a goodly amount of material moved.
Also keep in mind that firelapping will have the most effect closest to the breech. Apparently, by the time the bullet gets to the muzzle of a typical length rifle barrel, the grit is not working nearly as effectively. This is my opinion formed from bore scoping barrels I have firelapped. In other words, if the problem you are addressing is some nasty tool marks near the muzzle left over from the deep hole drilling operation, firelapping probably isn't the way to go. It WILL smooth roughness, even near the muzzle. But, if you go at it vigorously enough to substantially move material out near the muzzle, there is an extremely good chance that the throat will have been washed out a goodly distance!
Bottom line for me, firelapping is a pretty drastic operation. Worth consideration under drastic circumstances. That is to say, for me personally, I will only consider it when the alternative is throwing the barrel away. That said, all 3 barrels I've done were dramatically improved - to the point of being worth keeping. Do note however, these were all brand new factory barrels. Purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect that a barrel with a lot of miles on it already would see a whole lot of throat head downrange if firelapped. Just seems likely that chunks of gator hide from a well used throat would get broken loose en-masse...
Final thought... Firelapping is a lot of work. Plan on most of a full day to run the full course if frequent cleaning and careful examination as you go are part of your chosen procedure(even to include slugging the bore as you go). Is it worth a full day of your time to "save" a bad barrel? Only you can answer that, but it's a question well worth answering before making a decision.
- DAA
Posted by pup (Member # 90) on June 02, 2006, 02:16 PM:
DAA,
How did that new rifle turn out? I think you were making something in a 20 that should be a flat out lazer.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on June 02, 2006, 03:40 PM:
DAA, as usual, your posts are interesting and helpful. Thanks for reprinting.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 02, 2006, 03:45 PM:
Jim, that big twenty is still in progress. Sent all the parts to Greg Tannel, now just waiting for him to do his magic. I didn't ask him how long it would take (he just laughs at me anyway when I ask him that...). But I'm guessing I probably won't have it until September or so.
- DAA
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