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Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on April 22, 2011, 09:14 PM:
Anyone have one?
I heard that it would stomp a mud-hole in a coyotes arse waaay out there.
ML
[ April 22, 2011, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2011, 10:42 PM:
They say it's way overbore? What do you think, Mercer?
Okay, okay. I invested in a ready made 22/243Middlestead, of all things? Waiting for a gunsmith to turn out your dream rifle is for the birds, for some of us. Been there, got the tee shirt. So, this one has less than 300 rounds through the Hart barrel, 1x14" twist, should hold up, I'm thinking? Comes with brass and dies and a switch barrel in 22-250 Ackley, a caliber I am quite familiar with.
I had a hard time talking him out of it. Haha, wait 'til he tries to cash that check.
Anyway, that puny 223AI cost me a coyote last year and AR immediately scorned me because of it. Then, he said his new build was a Middlestead, so I'm keeping up with the Jones's, so to speak.
We shall see? I would like this to be my main daylight gun, this season. Keep your fingers crossed!
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 23, 2011, 06:08 AM:
I still don't see the 1/14 twist. Please explain.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2011, 09:56 AM:
First of all, this rifle was built for a man now deceased, who kept meticulous records and favored 40 grain and 55 grain bullets. At velocities in this range, there is no need for a fast twist, to generate enough RPM to stabilize bullets of that weight.
Although he was using 55 VMax, I think I will try the 55 Nosler and am very confident that a 1X14" twist is more than adequate, and the barrel should last far longer than a faster twist....all things being equal.
What is your concern? If I wanted to use long 70 grain bullets, I might have the same concerns, but I really believe this twist is not a problem, at all.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 23, 2011, 03:43 PM:
If it's what you want then there is no problem.
I'd prefer a 1/9 to stabilize higher BC bullets like a 75 A-max and cheat the wind as much as I could with that much horse power.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 23, 2011, 04:11 PM:
LB wants a lazer out to 400.
Shot a male coyote behind the shoulder with a 243 "bolt gun" this morning. About 220 out as it was leaving after working the dog. Hit it right behind the shoulder no exit.
Knocked 3 foot of guts straight out its arsehole. Never seen that happen before, have any of you?
stay after them
Kelly
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 23, 2011, 04:30 PM:
I gots a straight up .22-243 coming one of these days. 1:7.7" Krieger. opted away away from the Middlested for a couple/3 reasons....
One, the build is on a Remmy Seven action. More svelt than a 700 and less internal room for a sharp shouldered case to transition outta the box & feed reliably. Just a guess, but didn't feel like taking the chance with a longer case with less taper and more shoulder angle...
B., I gots lotsa .243 brass and all the dies already. Lapua brass is a bonus! Simple neck down with a smaller bushing (.250-1"), and no fireforming necessary.
Since I plan to run the ballz off this sucka, I don't wanna burn barrel life during fireforming. And by the time I need to trim cases due to brass flow, the primer pockets are gonna be toasted anyway... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Trez, went with a 24" barrel, so I wouldn't realize the marginally extra HP the Middlested would afford without going 26", or better. Too long for me on a Seven...
That's my story & I'm stickin' to it...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2011, 07:06 PM:
your B argument: First is that I don't fireform with bullets, I do it in the garage with a primer, a small charge of fast powder and a wad of newsprint. Seldom do I need a second firing and no wear and tear on the barrel. Second, if chambered correctly, brass flow into the neck would be marginal, if at all? Third, if you have enlarged primer pockets, you are running a lot more pressure than I would ever consider.
When you use loads that are super hot, throat erosion can be severe inside of 500 rounds and your prime accuracy disappeared within 300, worst case scenario.
Hot hunting loads aren't smart, for several reasons.
I used to think a Model 7 was the cat's ass. I have been hearing some negative chatter for quite a while. I'm not that up on reasons, but a good old 700 is kinda hard to beat.
As far as a necked 22/243, nothing wrong with that, that I can see? But, you know, if you can't get enough performance from 47+ grains of powder without enlarged primer pockets, I don't know what to tell ya?
But, I understand: you are building a dream. Everybody has one. Good luck, El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 23, 2011, 08:00 PM:
Leonard, if I tried fireforming cases at home, I'd be in handcuffs!
And I got a 'thing' for Sevens. That one will make four, all spec'ed nearly identical. Something to be said for having a familiar 'feel' between them...
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 24, 2011, 06:10 AM:
Kelly, I usually never got an exit with my 243AI and the 75 V-max, popped eyes and turned insides to mush but never like what you described.
I can see a lazer out to 400 but I'd worry about bullets exploding up close, then Leonard knows how to avoid that too.
I'm just partial to the 75/77 grain weights, never seen a bullet work better. Of course there's lots of bullets and weights that I ain't tried either.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 24, 2011, 08:25 AM:
Kelly, about ten years ago, I was testing some .20 caliber, 45 gr. custom made bullets out of a .20BR. Those things hammered coyotes like almost nothing else I have ever seen. Certainly nothing in the "small caliber" world. Had a couple coyotes, that had a couple feet of intestine coming out BOTH ENDS. Had never seen the like before and haven't seen it since. Was absolutely astounded by it the first time it happened. We've all experienced picking up a dead coyote that "sloshed" inside like a half full keg of beer. On the few that had no exit with that bullet, the sloshing was again, like nothing else I've ever personally used. I mean, it not only felt like a half full keg, it SOUNDED like one - you could hear the slosh just carrying them back to the truck. HARD on fur, but man did those things kill!
They were from a custom bullet maker who mostly made them for his own use and never tried going commercial. Shortly after I did that testing, he sold his dies and got out of the hobby entirely, so those bullets never were generally available and not to be found today. I still have a couple hundred of them though, keep meaning to try them in my .20-250 but have not got around to it.
Slow twist vs. fast twist... Like Leonard said, it's all about the bullet(s) you want to shoot. For my purposes, in a calling rifle, I'll take light, fast and flat over heavy with a rainbow trajectory every time. Wind bucking isn't really a consideration, for me, on called coyotes. Flat trajectory is though!
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 24, 2011, 11:07 AM:
Well, the BIG news, for me is Kelly shooting a coyote with a bolt gun, how retro!
As far as blowing intestines out body orifices, I might have seen it once, on an animal facing away, at a slight angle. Quite a bit of tissue was around the mouth, like a regurgitation, except it wasn't stomach contents.
I'm wondering if this isn't more typical with the "leave the bullet inside" crowd. I get exits, so squirting intestines out the anus seems less likely, Poop, yes, intestines, no.
I have told before about the time I was able to locate a coyote by the shaking of a bush. There he was, tethered to a creosote by at least 15 feet of his own intestine, tugging for all he was worth. (also, "behind the shoulder" as our Oklahoma Spin Doctor likes to say) Others would say, gut shot but, Hey!
DAA, I tend to agree with you on the flat trajectory out to normal shot opportunities, given the fact that visibility beyond 400 is not always possible. I'm not looking to accomplish a circus shot at 600, but anything out to 400 yards is a possibility and if we can eliminate a little guesswork, that's just about "hold on fur" distance. I really think this rig will make my life easier, in front of witnesses....like Shaw.
GH/LB (and Happy Easter, too)
edit: PS the only time I remember a sloshing around, it was a simultaneous discharge. Like a furry balloon, I think if I had punctured a hole in the side, all the contents would have poured out, leaving an empty skin.
[ April 24, 2011, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 24, 2011, 04:55 PM:
55 grain NBT bullets, standard 243, .276BC and 4000fps is doable.
From what I see, the Middlested pushes the 52 gr bullet at 4020 fps but still the 55NBT's BC is only .267
Thus my gripe with the 1/14 twist.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 24, 2011, 05:13 PM:
LB I still have 3-4 bolt guns. I like the AR's but been playing with this 243.
I have worked up loads using 55gr NBT, 58gr Vmax, 68gr Berger and 87gr Vmax. This gun shoots them all the same point of impact at 100 yards.
Have not done it yet, but I bet it will shoot under an inch if I were to shoot a group using one each of the loads listed above. Never had a rifle that I think would do that before. I shot the coyote yesterday with a 58gr Vmax running hard.
All the coyotes I have shot broadside with the 55gr NBT have exited. Shot a small pig about 50-60 pounds and the 55 exited on the pig also.
Tom - I have not been able to get 4000 out of the 55's yet. Been using H4895 cause I still have close to 20 pounds of it.
Dave sounds like that 20 was a butt kicker.
Yall stay after them
Kelly
[ April 24, 2011, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 24, 2011, 05:33 PM:
Kelly, try RL17.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 24, 2011, 05:50 PM:
will give it a try with the 55's. that is what I am running with the 87's. Just bought a pound to try out last week.
Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on April 24, 2011, 05:57 PM:
knockemdown, i have the 22-243 in a 1-8 hart, its on a 700 but has the 24 inch barrel, i really like mine, i'm out of room now in the mag so when it falls off i will have to get it rebarreled but as long as i set it right on the lands its a shooting dude, but lot of guys i know are going to a 22-250 in a 1-8 for more barrel life
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 24, 2011, 06:06 PM:
Ryan - dropped you a check in the mail for the kids air gun deal. let me know when I win...lol
Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on April 24, 2011, 06:39 PM:
i dont think you will probably win kelly, i forgot and put my name on the tickets but didnt want to tell you till you sent the money, ha
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on April 24, 2011, 07:00 PM:
LOL....well atleast your left with a right off K!
Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on April 24, 2011, 07:28 PM:
geordie do you need a write off, i can help you out too, i need more tickets if i plan to win that gun safe, ha
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2011, 11:20 AM:
This morning. I ordered a barrel vice and action wrench and a Wilson seating die. The die when I get it will be sent to Colorado, along with a fired case to the guy that built this rifle. He is going to punch it to the correct dimensions. In the meantime, I guess I can switch to the 22-250 Ackley barrel and see what I got, as soon as the tools arrive.
Waiting for the adaptor for the Stoney Point shooting sticks, then I'm going down to US Optics and have them mount the scope and calibrate it.
All this planning is exhausting, maybe I will lay down for a while?
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 25, 2011, 05:47 PM:
Leonard, how exactly can you better the 22-250AI with the Middlested?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 25, 2011, 10:24 PM:
Answer: actually, I don't expect to. I have seen the figures, when he fired, 3 shot group size, velocity, and date. Unfortunately, I don't have them with me, I am counting on Mercer forwarding the copies.
Bur, no. My 22-250 outperforms what this Middlested does, but not exactly, considering that my barrel is about 4.5 inches longer. It also weighs 18 pounds and has a McMillan benchrest stock.
And, all his data was using IMR4831 and W760. I am thinking H414 is (at least) worth a try? I don't remember what powder was used with the 40 grain but don't care. I think it was N???.
The part that is curious to me, and maybe it is what you are getting at, is why two barrels in essentially the same performance range? Apparently, the 22/243 holds about four more grains of powder, but in my opinion, that capacity is kinda wasted on 55 grain bullets, there is just so much velocity and after that the law of diminishing returns comes into play. A lot more powder and not very much velocity gain.
On paper, from memory because I don't have the data in front of me; the 22-250AI barrel is an inch longer and has less velocity, but not that much less. It is a slightly lighter contour, as well. The Middlested is sorta heavy.
I would have taken either barrel separately, but couldn't arrive at a deal, which I understand but it don't hurt to ask, The answer was no. But, I can always have one barrel fitted to something else. I don't really feel like doing that, just a thought.
I'm glad I don't have to play the waiting game, these projects always take way too long.
GH/LB
Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on April 26, 2011, 12:14 AM:
Don't keep us guessing Leonard, who is the smith? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Dan Dowling maybe...???
Nikonut
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 09:48 AM:
Very good, niko!
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 26, 2011, 10:08 AM:
I'll never really question the "why's" of any rifle loon but sitting here with a 22-250 that is going to the smith one day, I didn't want to overlook anything.
I think I'll stick with the 22-250AI but in a 1/9 twist, although for 400 and under there ain't an inch difference in all of them.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 10:36 AM:
Well, remember what our learned sage (DAA) said previously, it's all about the bullet and what you intend to accomplish. At these velocity levels, you don't need a nine twist for bullets in the 52/60 grain range, and maybe, like mine, you don't need a fast twist for 65 grain bullets, either? All the rage is for a fast twist and long bullets and a rifle set up like that is almost useless for normal stands, within 400 yards, more or less. I mean, if you want to bust coyotes out yonder, like TA, by all means get a rig set up for that.
But the problem, as I see it, is the bullets available are not real good killers, they are accuracy bullets and can and will zip through a coyote and leave you with a tracking chore unless you happen to judge range and wind exactly.
Now, the way I see it, if you can stabilize a bullet around 190,000RPM or so, do the math. Velocity times the twist, and you have no great need for spinning a bullet twice as fast unless it has 4 or 5 calibers of bearing surface.
And, if economy means anything to you, a fast twist is hard on throat erosion. I hate to lay out money for a premium barrel knowing that I better get my load figured out before my accuracy disappears.
I'm really not a big fan, but to each his own.
GH/LB
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 26, 2011, 02:15 PM:
quote:
All the rage is for a fast twist and long bullets and a rifle set up like that is almost useless for normal stands, within 400 yards, more or less. I mean, if you want to bust coyotes out yonder, like TA, by all means get a rig set up for that
I don't use the long heavey bullets in my coyote rifles. I use a med. weight bullet with good accuracy and B.C. and shoot it as fast as I can... As for setting a rig up its the same no matter what distance I'm going to shoot....
The nice thing about a switch barrel is you already have a extra barrel, if one should go bad or you run short on ammo just put the other one on and there is no waiting time..LOL
The 52 gr. sierra or 52 gr. A-max both work well on coyotes and the A-max gives you a little better accuracy at longer distances..
For powders in the ackley or Middlestead look at N-540 or Ram-shot Big game.. Good luck..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 03:25 PM:
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, TA
I will look into N540, maybe a couple more?
GH/LB
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 26, 2011, 04:53 PM:
quote:
All the rage is for a fast twist and long bullets and a rifle set up like that is almost useless for normal stands, within 400 yards, more or less.
Leonard, I'm honestly at a loss about how a fast twist tube/heavy pills are somehow useless for normal stands?
And please correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I'm all jumbled up from following along here, you've got a slow twist .22-250AI with a ~30" tube in a benchrest stock that weighs 18 lbs?
If so, then how is an quick handling, easy to tote & point (~8.5 lb. scoped), fast twist .22-243 any more useless than a long tube, 18 lb. bench rig on a 'normal' stand?
'Chit, my 7WSM all up is less than 14 lbs, and almost three of those pounds are in the scope/rings. SO I'm definitely lost here and NO disrespect intended...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 05:52 PM:
Yeah, you haven't been following along.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 26, 2011, 06:27 PM:
Have a bad day Leonard?
That's his night rig Fred, so it doesn't see many, if any, "normal" stands. I have to admit I'm a lil confused at the quoted statement as well. I'm reasonably sure that a heavier pill running ~3300fps will still ruin most coyotes at "normal" distances. Maybe not kill and skin them in one fell swoop, but I don't think there will be much spinning/running?
If we're off base, please enlighten us so that we won't appear challenged in the future.
Edit:
Oh yeah, who the hell is impersonating TA.
[ April 26, 2011, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 06:48 PM:
Well, I was alluding to the fact that most people that have a rig dedicated to beyond 600, or so have the elevation dialed in already. That's what I do. A long range gun is a long range gun and doesn't handle as nicely at normal 50/100 yard situations, and they usually weigh at least ten pounds, BTW. So, if you have a bullet with a high B.C. intended for accuracy work, then those bullets may not kill as well, at average ranges. But, anyway, as far as I'm concerned, if you do have an 8 pound gun, and it is, (arguably) a compromise, then I suppose it will suffice for whatever type of encounter you expect to see. I was thinking of a more radical dedicated rifle intended for REAL long range work, maybe Prairie dogs, rock chucks, etc. and of course, you could probably hit a coyote with it, but he might run completely out of sight before he drops.
My 18 pound 22-250AI is actually intended for anything out to 430 yards, or so. My 21 pound 25'06AI is available and dialed in for slightly longer range, if need be. Both of these guns are night rigs, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them long range rifles.
Maybe we aren't talking about the same concept, but say, for instance you have a 20 degree mount and a 24/36X scope and if you cranked the scope all the way, you still may be many inches high, trying to kill a coyote, at 100 yards. That's what I was thinking when I said "useless".
I subscribe to the golf club approach. Why use a seven iron, when you can hit the green with a three wood? And, then again, would you use a 3 wood on a par three? I don't know, maybeit's me that's screwed up?
GH/LB
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 07:55 PM:
Fred, I did not mean to sound rude in my previous post. I was just short of time. Maybe I should have waited until I could have given a more lucid response?
Anyway, look, I'm not the last word on any of this tuff. I deprimed 250 22-243 cases this afternoon and got a sore back for my trouble, probably made me rude and ornery.
You know, I am on record for stating that a 22-250 Ackley is all you will ever need in .224". So, here I am with a real hot rod.
I really doubt that I will load this thing to the max, I never do that, so if it does not out perform my other gun, I really could care less. I like safe dependable handloads.
One thing about this barrel is it has a really long leade before contact with the lands. The 55 VMax is seated less than half the length of the neck. For that reason, I may try a longer bullet. I have a box of 62 Bergers on hand, I might try that bullet. I have had very good luck, as far as killing goes, with 62, 64 and 65 grain Bergers, on coyotes.
There is merit in sticking with what was working before I acquired this rifle and that was the 55 VMax, but I really think I could satisfy my curiosity, a little bit.
I'm a little worried about the primer pockets, they were all pretty flat, with fireforming loads. This is why my buddy that used to build rifles would chamber a junk barrel for me using the same reamer and I could fireform a hundred rounds in an hour and not worry about barrel damage.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 26, 2011, 08:16 PM:
"All the rage is for a fast twist and long bullets and a rifle set up like that is almost useless for normal stands, within 400 yards, more or less."
I got all confused over this as well. My honest 7# 22" Mountain rifle contoured 243AI worked just fine with 75 V-max's for a calling rifle. The 1/9 twist and M1 elevation turret worked just as well out to the 800 yard gong with 105 a-max's so I've been told.
My 22-250AI will be just like it and run 75 a-max's. My scope will be zeroed at 200 yards with a cheat sheet for the long range stuff. I can still holdover if needed but why?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 26, 2011, 08:38 PM:
You guys would appreciate a Nevada night hunt. However, it would be better if you used my gear.
GH/LB
edit: AND QUIT PICKING ON ME!
[ April 26, 2011, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on April 26, 2011, 10:45 PM:
Hello LB
I had my .22-243 Midd. built 6 years ago, as a calling rifle. Killed a lot of Coyotes with it. I suspect it's better that a plain Jane 22-243 because the Midd has a steeper shoulder, thus preventing stretching? Without looking it up, I think it's a 30 degree shoulder. Good looking round.
Most of the time, I use my .20-250. If it's windy or I need Coyotes DRT, the Midd gets the nod, for sure. It flat gets the job done.
Using Lapua brass, 44.2 grains of H4350, with a 24" barrel,1:14 twist, I get 3800 fps with 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips. That's max in my rifle, to the point of just making ejector marks and a tad effort in lifting the bolt. The Noslers shoot flatter than the flat based 55 V-Max. For my application, anything heavier than 55 grain bullets, would defeat the purpose. I keep it 1 1/2" high at 100 yards, it's 2 " low at 300 yards. I can't aim at fur and expect to KILL a Coyote at 400 yards.
I was hoping for more velocity when I built this rig, more like 3900-4000.. Perhaps if tried a different powder like Varget or VV N550 I might pick it up a bit.
Tim, good to see you back!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 26, 2011, 11:15 PM:
Thanks Sparky..
Yes N-550 would be another good powder to try..
The N500 series is designed to fill the case a little more and give you a little more vel. in some of the cartridges its used in when compared to another powder with same burn rate.
For example you have N-140 which is the same burn rate as N-540 and when used in my 17 pred or 22-250 ackley I can get a few more grains of powder in the case and also get more vel.. Would have to look in my loading book for the difference I get in the two....
In Leonards case where he mentioned he dose'nt like to load a cartridge to max. he could use a 500 series powder and load it to the same charge as a simular powder and still keep the vel. but yet be under max charge..
[ April 26, 2011, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 05:29 AM:
Sparky, even at 4300 fps you'd still be almost 9" low at 400 yards given your 250 yard zero.
Turn a turret 2.25 MOA and hold dead on.
You're only 3 MOA away at 3800 fps. Not much difference for that great of a velocity gain and BC means little at 400 yards, given the velocity loss. I guess a 1/14 twist ain't totally useless for a 400 yard gun but from here on out the numbers add up.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 27, 2011, 06:11 AM:
Tim, ya can't get more speed without building more pressure at the same time. There is no such magic powder in the universe that defies the laws of physics to show otherwise...
So...if you are getting 'more speed' from a certain powder, you are building MORE pressure, too.
No way around it.
Obviously, different powders have different burn rates and associated pressure curves, but that's doesn't mean that any one powder can generate more speed with less pressure.
Should add, that % fill does have an affect on pressure. Example:
A powder charge occupies 91% case volume, leaving 9% 'empty space' left.
Test: load two cases with that same 91% fill powder charge, BUT seat a one bullet waaay deep in the case so as to take up some of that 9% 'empty space'. That particular loaded round will develop MORE pressure! Here's why...
That waaay deep seated bullet is now occupying more space inside the case, thus reducing useable case capacity.
Therefore, it will skew that original 91% fill powder charge to a higher percentage. Which, in turn will result in more pressure built from exactly the same amount of powder...
Off on a tangent here, but just sayin' that you CAN screw with pressure to best match a powder to a case, but there isn't any free lunch for making speed without building pressure at the same time...
Leonard, its all good! And I like your 'golf club' analogy. I guess I'm the type that prefers to carry less clubs in the bag, and the ones I do are 'hybrids', of sorts...
And I can definitely see the merits of having a heavy rig for stability and a flat point blank trajectory to help negate the difficulty of range estimating at night.
But, pair a 'hyrid' type rifle with a quality optic that has ooodles of internal travel, and you've got a rig that you CAN zero at 100yds (even with a canted base) and still retain the ability to correct (hold or dial) effectively for a precise long range hit...
The wind call remains 'voodoo logic', but that's where the heavy bullets can help ya, much the same as a flat trajectory provides a crutch for range estimation at closer range...
[ April 27, 2011, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 09:19 AM:
Fred, it's not exactly pressure because if it were, it wouldn't matter about pressure curves and matching a suitable powder with a suitable burning rate, for a given volume and a specific bullet weight. There are powders that offer enhanced performance.
I have my third 25'06Ackley. In an example, I used 100 grain bullets as a universal load and found that the best velocities I could get were with H4831 and W760. In this third barrel, I started using R22 right away, along with some archived loads. The difference was almost 300 FPS gain, and this was with observing all apparent pressure signs. Supposedly max loads, slightly flattened and slightly cratered primers and case head expansion, etc. All things being equal. It's all about finding a certain celestial alignment between bullet, case, primer, powder quantity and barrel length.
Just a quick comment about turrets and dialing the "correct" number of clicks based on shaky range estimates. If you have the time for this stuff, great, but I am usually dealing with a second or third animal that is not going to wait, if he ever does stop, for me to calibrate the exact zero enabling me to punch his lights out. Let's say I get one chance, if I'm lucky while I'm tracking him in the scope. Whatever.
Gary, the best Middlested numbers I have from the previous owners records shows 3940fps with a 55 VMax and a compressed load of IMR4831. 26" barrel. This guy was a moly affectionado. I don't do moly. Rifle has not been fired since January, 2002. Maybe I can squeeze a little more velocity, we shall see?
GH/LB
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2011, 09:58 AM:
Here is some info on The 500 series powder I got from there reloading manual;
quote:
N500 series
Adding nitroglycerol to the traditional single base
powder makes possible in addition to geometry and
coating a third controlled variable of ballistic properties:
energy content. Vihtavuori calls powders which
have nitroglycerol added (maximum 25 %) high energy
NC-powders, which form N500 series.
The composition of a typical high energy powder is as
follows:
* nitrocellulose * nitroglycerol
* coating agent * stabilizer
* flame reducing agent * wear reducing agent
Geometrically the powders in the N500 series are
equal to the N100 series. Although these new powders
have a higher energy content, they do not cause
greater wear to the gun. This is because the surface of
the powder has been treated with an agent designed to
reduce barrel wear.
N500 series powders work well at different temperatures,
even better than the traditional N100 and N300
series. Temperature sensitivity naturally depends very
much on the weapon and on the cartridge. The
manufacturing technique employed permits a very
high bulk density, which in turn makes it possible to
use a bigger charge in a certain limited loading volume.
22-250 ackley; 52 gr. A-max .30 off of lands, fed 210 primer.
N-140/37.1 Vel. 3800 fps.
N-540/40.0 Vel. 3926 fps. Caution both loads at Max for my rifle....
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 10:26 AM:
Tim, it's post's like that that keep me from sending this 22-250 for a new tube.
My 250 wears a 22" barrel and with 38 grs of RL15 I get 3833 fps average with the 50 gr NBT's. Given a longer barrel I'm sure it would get close to your max load with VV.
Book load, primers are fine and all that.
Groups shot comparing IMR4895, RL-15 and what the 1/14 twist does with a 60 gr V-max.
Remember this is a Remington Mountain rifle shooting 5 shot groups back to back before you go picking on my groups.
[ April 27, 2011, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 27, 2011, 10:39 AM:
quote:
It's all about finding a certain celestial alignment between bullet, case, primer, powder quantity and barrel length.
I agree 100%, Leonard.
Too fast a powder and it'll prematurely spike pressure. Too slow a powder and you're leaving fps on the table. Ideally, you want a darn near full case with darn near a full burn in your alotted barrel length, that's a given...
But, I'll maintain that you can't get more speed from the same rifle/bullet from a different powder without generating more pressure at the same time. Energy is energy. So somebody, somehwere, somehow, gotsta pay the piper for those extra fps's on the chrony. And that somebody is case pressure...
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on April 27, 2011, 10:53 AM:
Hey LB. I will get those copies of the range records in the mail today.
My favorite load for my middlestead (Dowling built 1-14 twist 26 inch hart barrel) is 49g H414 and a 50g bal tip- 4251fps. super accurate and fast. Have won some money over the years with that gun.
Switch barrels make sense when you spend the kind of time that the guy who had LB's new gun built did at the range. He really enjoyed working up loads and experimenting. He had or at some time in is life had one or two of just about any caliber you can think of. It was not uncommon for him to have a gun built and it be a year or more before it ever made it to the range. When you think about it most of the money is in the stock, action and scope so why not a switch barrel?
ML
[ April 28, 2011, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2011, 12:01 PM:
quote:
Tim, it's post's like that that keep me from sending this 22-250 for a new tube.
My 250 wears a 22" barrel and with 38 grs of RL15 I get 3833 fps average with the 50 gr NBT's. Given a longer barrel I'm sure it would get close to your max load with VV.
Tom the 52 gr. A-max has a longer bearing surface than youre 50 gr. and also longer than the 52 gr. Sierra. A 52 gr. Sierra will do 4000 fps with a charge of 39.4 of N-540...
By looking at my loads for my 22-250 a 52 gr. bullet will only do about 3750 fps at max load..
The 52 gr. Sierra will shoot faster in my ackley but dose'nt do as well down range as the A-max does.. Any way try some 52 gr. A-max's in youre 22-250 and let me know how fast they go...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 01:12 PM:
Jimanez; (my name Jose Jimanez)
First off, I would get away from 50 grain bullets for coyotes, were I you. Second, it's possible that your twist in that 22" barrel length, at whatever velocity just can't stabilize a 60 grain bullet? 55 grain bullets are the logical choice, it seems to me? But, I thought you said before that your velocities were estimates? If nothing else, and your yield is a disappointment, at least with an Improved case, you don't have to deal with neck trimming. However, with the increase in capacity, you should be able to drive a heavier bullet at higher velocity than what you are getting out of 50 grain bullets, especially if you decide on a longer barrel.
Fred, to take your argument to a ridiculous length, fill the case with a double base powder and a heavy bullet, if "pressure" alone is what produces velocity. I'm not even sure what your point is, but finding the correct powder, based on burn rate is what we try to do. The fly in the ointment, for me has always been IMR4895, doesn't fill the case, doesn't produce the absolutely highest velocities, but seems to always be an accurate powder.
Mercer, I have always used 44.0 gr.of H414 in my 22-250Ackley behind a 65 grain bullet and I settle for 3925fps. My 55 grain numbers were closer to 4400, as I recall but I was smoking bullets down range and that's when I went to a heavier bullet. I understand the rationale' behind a switch barrel, but I think the better choice would have been a high performance chambering and an accuracy number like 22BR? The velocities between the 22-250AI and the Middlested are really close and all things being equal, the better accuracy would be the one I would choose.
But, I really would appreciate that data, when you have a chance.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 01:12 PM:
I was thinking the A-max had a shorter bearing surface. I'll pick some up and see what I get. Course it'll be a while, I sent the scope off for an M1 knob this morning.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 01:17 PM:
ALERT!
More controversy coming!
I don't like target turrets on my (daylight stand) calling rifle.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 01:20 PM:
Leonard have you been drinking or have I?
If the above post was to me, my velocities are over a chronograph, my 22-250 is a plain vanilla 22-250 and yes a longer barrel would be in store if a new tube is screwed on.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 01:33 PM:
No, I don't drink, but I stand corrected, it was Jim that said he uses a formula to estimate his velocity.
Oh, I may have a margarita with my combo plate, but I'm not much of a drinker.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 01:36 PM:
Good, I was worried about myself.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 27, 2011, 01:41 PM:
I always like H-414 too, same load as a matter of fact, 44 grains, although I settled on the Nosler 50 bt for my rifle. Admittedly, I had cut that particular barrel down to 20 inches, so with 55 grain bullets, I couldn't wring 4K out of the shorter tube, but the 50's had me right there.
Way to much gun for what I do now, and my hunting style, but at least I got to play with one....it's a lotta gun, thats for sure.
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on April 27, 2011, 01:52 PM:
Hey Tom, If I was sneaking around fields/pastures,etc., trying to put the "drop" on unsuspecting Coyotes, where I could range it, adjust the elevation and go. Brother, I'd be all over that. That stuff takes time, time is a luxury when bringing them in to the call.
Leonard, looking forward to see what we come up with, for powder here. Hopefully, not something that's temperature sensitive? Like ball powders?
Certainly in the Fall and sometimes in Winter, it can be below freezing and hit 80+ degrees all in one day.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 27, 2011, 02:26 PM:
Huh? I don't use 50gr bullets on coyotes. And I haven't mentioned anything about my 250AI because I don't have it wrung out yet. Every time I think about going to shoot it the damn wind is blowing. It's a 26", 8 twist.
I believe that was Tom you were addressing.
Edit:
Note to self...always go to the end before typing a reply.
Second edit:
I don't always estimate velocity, just mostly for my short barreled AR cuz of its range limitations.
[ April 27, 2011, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 02:30 PM:
Okay, I'm going to stop using names.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 27, 2011, 04:20 PM:
BTW, me and cuzz started out 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips in our 22-250's several years ago. One of us tried the 50's and up until this year we both liked them better, killing wise and accuracy wise, out of several guns. I tried the 40 and even the new 60's but always came back to the 50's.
Cuzz even tried 50 and 55 V-max's and Sierras Blitz kings of both weights. It ain't like the 55's have escaped me all this time.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 07:24 PM:
What a relief!
edit: But I cannot agree that 50 grain bullets are the best choice for coyotes.
[ April 27, 2011, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 27, 2011, 07:52 PM:
quote:
But I cannot agree that 50 grain bullets are the best choice for coyotes.
They do make a great second choice..
I have used the Calhoon 42 gr. and 52 gr. double H.P.'s and they work well enough in cartridges that run a little short in vel. like the 221 f.b. does and would be a better choice for a 223 calling rifle..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2011, 09:30 PM:
Yeah, well. The 62 Bergers I have are MEF, just because.
All I know is there must be a lot of cripples dying in the bushes, in Oklahoma?
GH/LB
(just kidding, just kidding)
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 28, 2011, 05:09 AM:
I'm going to add to the controversy and agree with Tom. I have been playing with lots of turrets the last couple years and I like em! I have the Leica binos with range finder in them and it is pretty quick and painless to dial it and kill it. I do get the turrets custom for the gun and load I'm shooting so I'm not counting clicks. I just dial the yardage and fire.
Sorry Leonard. I know we rarely disagree.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 28, 2011, 06:21 AM:
quote:
Fred, to take your argument to a ridiculous length, fill the case with a double base powder and a heavy bullet, if "pressure" alone is what produces velocity. I'm not even sure what your point is, but finding the correct powder, based on burn rate is what we try to do.
Yep. Just sayin' that you can't gain velocity without also increasing case pressure. No free lunch available...
Jimzy, take that 1:8 AI out and shoot it in the wind!!!
Check these #s out from Exbal
.224 bullet ballistic comparison
200yd zero, 1.5" scope height
62gr Berger MEF @ 3950fps
dist______drop_____wind
300-------1.50-----2.75
400-------3.25-----4.00
500-------5.75-----5.25
600-------8.75-----7.00
52gr Nosler Btip @ 4200fps
dist______drop______wind
300-------1.25------2.75
400-------3.00------3.75
500-------5.00------5.00
600-------7.75------6.50
75gr Amax @ 3650fps
dist______drop______wind
300-------1.25------1.50
400-------3.00------2.25
500-------5.00------3.00
600-------7.00------3.50
interesting?
EDIT: values are in MOA
[ April 28, 2011, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 28, 2011, 07:17 AM:
Jim - looks like you "jest" need to make sure that coyote is standing broadside at 600.
My guess is an ant-lope would be safe....lol
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 28, 2011, 09:04 AM:
You're killing me KJ. Thanks for the reminder.
You're right Fred, it's hard not to get inspired by looking at those numbers. Forecast for tomorrow is for wind from 13 to 35 MPH. Guess it'll gimme a chance to mess with that ballistics calculator app I put on my phone, lol. The wheels are in motion.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2011, 09:49 AM:
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. That's all I have to say.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 28, 2011, 10:07 AM:
It's an okie conspiracy...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2011, 11:32 AM:
Forgiven, Cal.
I understand your situation, I have been to WY in the past. But, for what I do, target turrets seem to snag on stuff and I don't have time to fuck with them anyway. I guess it's a personal preference thing, but on a calling rifle, I don't like them big knobs and wouldn't use them anyway.
I will just take my chances with a little bit of guestimate based on experience and familiarity with what's in my hands, at the time. Modesty prevents me from elaborating as to how effective it has been.
GH/LB
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 09:34 AM:
I know you guys are dying for an update.
Yesterday, correction, Wednesday, I finished depriming and sizing about 250 Middlested cases.
Then, my Alzheimer's faded for a brief period and I remembered that Dan wanted a "fired case".
I had about twenty rounds loaded that came with it so I drove up the hill for the sole purpose of firing one shot down in the canyon. By 2 o'clock I had the Wilson die and the fired case packaged and mailed off. He did mention that he had stuff to do in May, hopefully, that is late May and he can get this seater back to me before the freeze.
Now, a trip to U.S. Optics is in order, I removed the existing B&L 3200 which is suitable for squirrels. When I get that taken care of, if I don't see that Middlested seater soon, I may switch barrels? I'm good to go for 22-250AI.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 29, 2011, 10:24 AM:
US Optics? Now you're toying with us, they don't even make a scope without turrets do they?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 11:50 AM:
I don't know, but it has everything else? I'm not thrilled with the honeycomb stuff up front, and we got an eleven position lighted reticle. I have to admit, that BIG thingy on top is a SERIOUS turret. But you have to twist the objective to dial in parallax. Yes, you got me. It has many bells and whistles to play with. But, they don't stick out that much, like a sore thumb.
Where's Waldo?
GH/LB
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 29, 2011, 02:39 PM:
I took out the 243WSSM yesterday evening. Now I got a machine gun spittin out 55gr NBT just over 4000. More testing to do. Gotta be ready. Plus I kinda like jackin with stuff.
Now how in the heck is the BC of a 243 55gr NBT better than a 224 55gr NBT?
Just eyeballin, they are close to the same OAL, the 243 may have just a hair longer boatail.
Tom - what you going to shoot next month at the Okie get together?
Stay after them
Kelly
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 02:51 PM:
You are correct, insofar as it seems to be illogical? 4,000 is quite a big number. Wow! Must be the cool mountain air? This is out of a machine gun, right? You remind me of Dan, (the man) money is noooo object.
What happened? Did my invite get lost in the mail, or what?
GH/LB
edit: rereading, it IS a machine gun. How about that?
[ April 29, 2011, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 29, 2011, 03:13 PM:
All ya are welcome. We eat, BS awhile and then kill paper eggs at 100, 200 and 300 yards.
Yesterday was great here. 75 no wind. Today 80 something and 40 plus wind.
Dan built this upper, wasn't that much.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 03:23 PM:
Oh yeah, I know what not that much means to you Big Oil Men.
Well, my rings are on backorder! Two weeks! The troops come first. I understand that.
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 29, 2011, 03:45 PM:
Kelly, I'll bring my 17 and 18" machine guns, the 18" Noveske put up a pretty good group at 300 last year but I haven't played with the new scopes much.
I'll also bring the 308 to play with but it's not a hunting gun so I'll shoot an AR in the comp. The 250 is without a scope unless Leupold gets it back to me quick enough.
I ordered a box of 55 NBT's last night (to keep on ElBee's good side) but it ain't right that the 243 should be dumpier but it ain't. Kinda like my 155 Scenars have a better BC than the 168 A-max or 175 SMK... just ain't right.
Leonard, I was thinking about a post a few years ago, when I was hard headed enough to think short(er) range guns were all that was needed for a calling rifle. Then "unknown" and Shaw reminded me that it doesn't hurt to be versatile, those sniper rigs can be shot up close too...
Now tell the truth, did you order any 75 A-max's yet?
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 29, 2011, 03:48 PM:
Forgot, Kelly sorry I had to cut it short the other night, the wife was fixing to start cooking if I didn't get around and take them to dinner.
Couldn't have that, could we.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 29, 2011, 04:10 PM:
The USO EREK elevation turret doesn't 'stick out' too badly at all, Leonard...
What size rings ya need (tube dia. & height)?
I've got a couple sets in the box that might could work, if ya don't feel like waiting on backorders...
KJ, what powder gave you 4K w/ the 55s?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 04:20 PM:
Well, they can't say for sure, but it's one of the two shortest rings, and neither are in stock. What you got? You don't by chance have a picatinny rail for a M700, do you?
GH/LB
edit: it's a 30mmtube, if that's what you mean? 37mm objective.
[ April 29, 2011, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 29, 2011, 04:45 PM:
The USO in the pic is a 37mm objective.
In 30mm, I've got:
Seekins Precision lows (.82")
Nightforce UL (titanium alloy) in medium (1.00" and HIGH (1.125")
Sorry, no base pic rail though.
Got a long ride this evening, I'll try reaching out on the way.
happy weekend!
[ April 29, 2011, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 29, 2011, 05:47 PM:
BL-C2. Went till a case stuck and backed off 1/2 grain. Was just under max published load.
Got very little deviation with this powder.
Groups show promise for a machine gun.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 06:36 PM:
I thought Dan claims his AR's shoot better than a bolt gun?
GH/LB
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 29, 2011, 07:13 PM:
ask him IF he will build you a WSSM.
Posted by WyoColoDogger (Member # 3822) on April 29, 2011, 08:28 PM:
My vote is for the 22-250AI
All the gun you need for coyotes plus did the job very well during a recent hog hunt in Texas
My buds like to laugh but the standard 25-06 is the supreme predator caliber. No run offs here in Colo when Bessie talks
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 29, 2011, 08:57 PM:
You have discriminating taste, Wyo. I just acquired a second 22-250Ackley. A better all around coyote chambering has yet to be discovered. Unless it's my 25'06Ackley.
I swear, I have never lost a cripple with either one, but you need a good bullet, as well. If I had to choose one, and only one, it would probably be the 22-250Ackley.
GH/LB
PS that's a fact, never lost a cripple with either cartridge. Oh, I had a couple that scared me, but they were heart shot that ran dead.
edit: Kelly, I'd be afraid to ask.
[ April 29, 2011, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on April 30, 2011, 07:02 PM:
The WSSM, Hum, yep.
I don't think any respectable manufacturer is still making them.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 30, 2011, 08:47 PM:
That would be the impression I get, as far as a successful product line. First, there was no vast need and the whole concept left me underwhelmed, from the get go.
Might be suitable in one of those break open encore things?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 30, 2011, 08:59 PM:
Hey Dan, you ain't got one of them VLD machine gun mags laying around do you?
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on May 01, 2011, 08:47 PM:
I don't.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2011, 09:38 AM:
Okay, man of few words; what exactly is the reason why reputable manufacturers will not be making any WSSM chamberings?
I'm serious, I don't know. Maybe you do, what's your opinion?
GH/LB
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on May 02, 2011, 12:51 PM:
Brief synopsis of Dan's view of the .243 WSSM caliber:
Brass is junk, therefore, accuracy is junk, therefore, he won't build one for anybody but Kelly.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2011, 02:04 PM:
I suppose it would be too much trouble to modify a different, but similar case?
GH/LB
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 02, 2011, 02:24 PM:
Would think a 6x47 Lapua or 6mm BR wouldbe a better choice...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2011, 03:09 PM:
Sure, there are always choices, some better than others, but what was the thinking behind these WSSM turkeys, in the first place? Anybody playing with some calipers and a blank piece of paper can come up with something different. What made this idea go forward?
GH/LB
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 02, 2011, 03:10 PM:
Brass and accuracy junk? Don't nobody tell cuzz that, he keeps reloading his 223WSSM cases he's had from the beginning.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 02, 2011, 03:17 PM:
Better he find out now. He was probably satisfied? Nothing like knowing you can't get parts when you eventually will need them.
GH/LB
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 03, 2011, 07:35 AM:
I think they started them to go fast and be accurate from a short action rifle.
Thus the short fatty case.
Have shot and owned them all.
The 223WSSM bolt gun currantly in the safe is faster with the same bullet than the 22-250 sitting there, and almost as accurate. You would never know the diffenace in the two shooting off sticks.
The 25 WSSM uppers where very picky about the powder, bullet and primer used.
It is a wicked round in a AR-15 platform.
The 243WSSM is as fast or faster than the 243 bolt gun I am shooting that has a 2" longer barrel. Not as acccurate, but will do fine on a calling stand.
My thoughts are the WSSM will live as an AR15 cartridge. In bolt guns there are standard cartridges that will do the same thing.
The short fatty's are cool looking though.
The cartridge other than the WSSM is a 6.8SPC necked down to 6MM = 6WOA.
6WOA does not shine with light 6MM bullets, but get to the mids and it is short of the standard 243 only by 200-300 FPS (low end of 6BR vel) and has the felt recoil like that of a 223.
At 300 or less it is pretty hard to beat as a coyote killer at all angles.
Stay after them
Kelly
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 03, 2011, 08:01 AM:
Thanks for that report, Kelly. Interesting.
I'm still underwhelmed.
GH/LB
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 03, 2011, 08:06 AM:
as you should be LB.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 03, 2011, 09:47 AM:
I think I'm just about ready to bite the bullet and have my Remington 700 rebarreled to .22-250 AI.I've been wanting to do it for quite a while now,but the damn thing(plain jane .22-250) just keeps shooting straight.lol But it's got to be about shot out,never kept records but it's got to have a few thousand rounds through it.Been shooting it for damn near 25 years.
Think I might send it off to get done later this summer. I'm thinking .22-250 AI 25" shilen stainless match sporter barrel with a 1-12 twist.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 03, 2011, 11:02 AM:
You will never regret it.
GH/LB
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 03, 2011, 12:16 PM:
Yeah you are probably the main reason I keep coming back to that Cartridge. I've thought about alot of different ones too. .243 win,.243 AI,6mm Remington,.220 Swift,.22-243 Middlestead, and the Plain Ol' .22-250 again.
Keep coming back to the .22-250 AI.For my type of calling seems like the best choice. I am very interested in the 64 grain Bergers as a go to bullet too.If I could get 3600-3700 fps I would be very happy.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 03, 2011, 01:19 PM:
Chad, if you have ever owned a swift or even a 270Winchester, you would appreciate never having to trim necks in an Ackley. And, in my experience, the brass lasts forever.
So, if you don't get 4 grand, it will still outperform a 220Swift, which is practically the Gold Standard for 22 caliber. And, my swift cases were good for about four reloads. My Ackleys, I'm careful and I get ten. And, performance makes a swift look like a 223 in comparison.
This is why there is so much to gain, by using a heavier bullet. Most people punch a standard 22-250 and stick with the 55 grain bullets but with the slight gain in case capacity, it gives you enough horsepower to drive a heavier bullet just as fast as the 55's in the factory case. The other error is they tend to use an incorrect powder. For my money, H414 is a perfect powder for that case capacity, all things being equal. Some caution about temperature sensitivity, but I never had a problem. All canister powders have degraded performance at low ambient temperatures, and I work up my load in warm weather, so that has never caused me a problem, either. Of course, it makes sense to not leave them out in the sun.
I can't make promises, but there is a lot of potential, if you're smart. And, I think you are.
GH/LB
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 03, 2011, 01:31 PM:
Thanks Leonard. Your advice is very much appreciated.I will probably be picking your brain a little in the near future.
Then when I get her up and shooting well you'll have to show me what it can really do by taking me out to West and show me how to kill those Nevada Coyotes at night. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good Hunting Chad
[ May 03, 2011, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 03, 2011, 02:01 PM:
I can probably do that. If you wait for a new moon.
GH/LB
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 03, 2011, 02:45 PM:
Deal....
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0