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Author
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Topic: scopes
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coyotekid
PAKMAN
Member # 656
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posted May 17, 2005 09:41 PM
is a simmons 8 point a good scope i was gonna get it is a 4-12 and i dont have alot of money so i thoght it might be a good choice.
Posts: 8 | From: kanasa | Registered: May 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted May 19, 2005 12:04 PM
The price may be right, but the clarity and quality of the optics will probably give you fits. There are some low priced scopes from China that aren't too bad. Take a look at the Barska 6-24X44 SWAT scope with illuminated MIL-dot for around $250. Pretty good glass at an afforable price.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 19, 2005 12:41 PM
Natchez catalog, Simmons Whitetail Expedition, comes in 1.5-6X (of which I now have three mounted on my calling rifles) they run $99,and they have 4-12 also, for just a bit more. Great scopes.
Posts: 1630 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted May 19, 2005 08:30 PM
I'll agree with AZ... I once owned an expedition and still own a couple of the "Step-ups" known as Whitetail Classics. The classics are 6.5X20X50 and are great scopes for the money. I've got one on a 30-06 and another on a 22-250, not scared of them in the least.
I have two 8-points that are mounted on Knight Inline muzzleloaders and they've done me well also, 3X9X50.
I have a BSA 4X12X50 Mil-Dot on my 17HMR and am very pleased with it. There are several good options out there when it comes to cost efficient scopes, just don't tell that to anyone wearing a Leopold hat. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
P.S. All of the scopes described above came from www.natchezss.com I have another BSA that was shipped out of Chatanooga yesterday.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 19, 2005 09:04 PM
I'm not totally rational, when it comes to glass. I have always bought the best I can afford, as a precaution.
I looked through Vic's Simmons, the one on the 19. I have to admit, it looked clear and bright.
What I worry about is adverse conditions. Road dust, frost, downpours, violent swings in temperature, and hard accidental knocks.
I sure don't mind saving a buck, but I have a hard time figuring out why one scope can cost four or five times another. I have only returned one scope...check that, I got my money back on a Tasco, once? But, I mean, for repair. I had sold a Leupold and the guy apparently did something(?) and came to me, so I sent it back for him.
But, hey, I really value a scope that I can see through clearly, at night. That seems to separate the men from the boys....and me from my money.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted May 20, 2005 03:44 PM
Hey,jrb!...I wear a leupold hat!...been using them for years...Never had a bad one come rain,extreme cold,heat and even dropped one and bent the front bell peice in front of the lens..still on the gun and working fine.3-9 V-X-2...20 years without a problem!Same thing gone on my new 243 rem.
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted May 20, 2005 06:45 PM
Didn't say they were bad scopes... or hats. Sometimes hard to convince people the reasonably priced scopes are reasonably dependable.
I have you beat; ran over a whitetail classic with an F-150, it was horribly dismembered for two weeks, then it was like new. Simmons and Harris really helped me out of that blunder, both covered replacement warrantys for me and set my calling rifle back up.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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coyotekid
PAKMAN
Member # 656
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posted May 20, 2005 07:22 PM
were can i find one of those cheap rifles
Posts: 8 | From: kanasa | Registered: May 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted May 20, 2005 07:48 PM
Jrb, I got nothing against simmons or some of the other cheaper brand scopes..i have a 4x12 tasco on one of my coyote guns and it has held up very good so far..They guarantee them better than they use to years ago and i hear a lot of good from the lower cost scopes today than years ago.I,m and old timer and you seem to get stubborn about what you buy because of bad luck with it years ago...(I know they got better but i'm still stubborn)
[ May 20, 2005, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Melvin ]
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted May 20, 2005 07:51 PM
If you want an inexpensive coyote rifle check out the Handi Rifles. I've had great luck with them and they come in several coyote capable calibers. Or... just watch for a guy to back over a real nice one with his truck... you can get em' dirt cheap then.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted May 20, 2005 07:56 PM
I don't have a leupold hat!...Anybody want to donate one?
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted May 20, 2005 07:58 PM
Hey jrb, they can shoot around corners to.
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted May 27, 2005 06:15 AM
I've used my Nikon Buckmaster 4.5x14x40mm. For a couple of years now. It's been a very good/dependable scope so far. Good clarity & repeatable adjustment knobs.
Lost one of the adjustment caps(GRRRrrr)me bad. E-mailed Nikon, about buying another. They sent me another...@ no charge! I'm well pleased with their Company, product & service.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted May 30, 2005 05:18 AM
I used a fixed 20x {Tasco Super Sniper} on my Bushmaster one winter, for shooting coyotes. Excellent glass, clear, bright & sharp edges. Held zero, very well. But in my hunting conditions it wasn't ideal, for runners(to difficult to keep "runners" in the scope}.
Also the windage/elevation target-knobs are set-screwed onto smooth brass stems. They would often work loose.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rangerclay
PAKMAN
Member # 670
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posted June 20, 2005 11:22 AM
You won't get better customer service that you will get from Bushnell!!
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One Riot, One Ranger!
Posts: 9 | From: Northern NY aka God's Country | Registered: Jun 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted June 20, 2005 07:47 PM
Ranger,...The point is, "I don't want a scope i have to go back and get service for"
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
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posted June 20, 2005 09:58 PM
I'm with Melvin.
Many times I've seen people spend huge money on stereos only to scrimp on speakers and defeat the whole purpose of a nice stereo in the first place. I just don't think they get it.
I feel the same way about the glass I top my rifles with. I may be a "scope snob," but I think you need to go the extra mile when topping your rifle whenever possible. I shoot some heavy calibers, so it becomes even more important in these cases (scopes, rings and mounts).
Personally I favor Leupold, Monarch UCC and the Weaver Grand Slam. All are damned good quality and should never fail you. I know there are other good brands, but these are what I choose to own.
Used you can get some pretty good deals.
I have no hesitation topping a $500 rifle with a $400 scope if necessary.
When it comes to glass, you usually get what you pay for, and they're the last place I'm ever going to "bargain shop."
In a nutshell, my rule of thumb is: If it doesn't come with a tranferrable lifetime warranty, I wouldn't consider purchasing one, new or used.
Money is usually in short supply at my house -- I've found the best way to afford top-quality glass is to buy fewer guns.
My two cents.
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The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Dogleg
Knows what it's all about
Member # 662
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posted June 21, 2005 03:46 PM
Rangerclay,
I am very familiar with Bushnells customer service. That's because in the last 2 years or so I have had to return 11 for repairs. There is a 12th laying in a drawer, waiting for me to cool down.That particular 4200 is a 6-24 that has only been on a rimfire. These were 3200 and 4200 Elites, not el-cheapo's. The average turn around time was from 3-5 months, hardly what anyone would consider great. The estimated turn around time on a Leupold is two weeks, but I have never had to use it! The best warranty is the one you don't need.
Dogleg
Posts: 30 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | Registered: Jun 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted June 21, 2005 04:43 PM
Dogleg,..I'm curious,did you buy all 12 of those scopes at the same time? Or did you buy one at a time,"wait untill it went bad",send it in and buy another,then send in and so on?..Then accumulate 12?..You could have bought the best scope on the market,instead of spending all that money on bad scopes!!!! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dogleg
Knows what it's all about
Member # 662
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posted June 21, 2005 07:40 PM
Melvin,
(Prepare for rant ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )I really don't this to come off as flames, so please don't take it that way. First off, I said 11 returns not 11 scopes. Some went back more than once. I acquired most of them one at a time, though there was a purchase of 3 identical 3-9 x 40's. That was the point where my luck went bad. Up to that point I was an outspoken fan of the make. The optics were fine, and though some very experienced shooters warned me subtlely and not so subtlely that I was heading for trouble, I hadn't had any and was feeling pretty smug. When the first broke, it seemed like a fluke, the second was written off as bad luck and heavy use. Soon every darn scope I owned was in the mail, coming or going and these things were popping erector assemblies as fast I could put them back on. Failures occured on everything from my Anschutz .22 through 22/250, several on a 30/06 and one on my STW. That '06 (a BAR) could wreck a 3200 almost faster than you could sight it in. One didn't last 50 shots. Groups opened to 6". I swapped scopes at the range, shot a 3/4" group and sent targets and all in. Needless to say, replacements started showing up from other sources and returned scopes got dumped.Life is too short, and days off are too precious to be second guessing your equipment. Replacing practically every centerfire scope that I owned wasn't something that I enjoyed. I really wish that my intial success with Baush and Lomb/ Bushnell wasn't so good. Then I wouldn't have owned so many. I agree that it would have been cheaper in the end to have spent more money and gotten something really good in the first place,(I think about that every day, believe me!) but I never bought another Bushnell after the first failure. It's just that I was stuck with what I already had.
That concludes my rant, but it isn't directed toward any one except Bushnell Sport Optics, and perhaps at least a little toward myself.
Posts: 30 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | Registered: Jun 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 21, 2005 08:29 PM
You had to ask, didn't you, Melvin?
I just have a hard time believing that I'm a sucker for buying 500-1000 dollar scopes when a hundred bucks could get me one just as good and just as dependable.
They say (who's that?) that there are no bargains in optics. When I was twenty, every scope looked clear as a bell. Then I started learning about evaluating such things.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31472 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted June 22, 2005 02:21 PM
I was an open sight shooter untill i went on my first bear hunt in 1970...The man i booked my hunt with recomended that i use a scope in 4 power for close shooting in the Canadian bush...I bought a new scope and mounted it on the rifle...I took the scoped gun to the shooting range and was amazed 'how much easier,' it was to hit a,'much smaller bulls eye' and keep smaller groups, at the longer distances...I had one problem tho,it was hard to shoulder the gun and find a particular spot in the scope...Plenty of practice solved the problem...This hunt was almost a disaster because of the scope...We were hunting in very heavy vegetation and pines and i could only see for a short distance...A bear picked up the scent of another hunter and came crashing directly toward me...I shoulderd the gun and was ready for very close action,'so i thought!-"The scope was fogged!"I could only point the gun toward where the bear would break out in front of me...For a reason only known to the bear,he came to a stop only about ten yards inside the thick vegetation...I couldn't see him but could hear the heavy breathing...Then after a moment or so ,he ran at an angle up hill and to my right...This episode almost turned me against a scope...I bought the gun new and bought the scope new..The gun was a mod.88 Win.in 308 cal. and topped it with a Valor scope with the post retical..I took the scope back and decided to ask questions about which scopes came back the least'for trouble like i had...I went to several sporting goods stores to be sure'before i made my decision to buy another scope..They all told me "The Leupold"..One retailer told me he had only one to come back,and it was because of the elevation adjustment...He still highly recomended the Leupold..I bought one and never had a problem since,"and still buy them."...I do own a couple other brand scopes but prefer a Leupold.....Any of you used or heard of the Valor scope?....I only seen them in the early 70's
PS....I did kill a bear on that hunt..."Open sights"
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted June 22, 2005 06:35 PM
I gotta admit, the rifle I got from Vic has a Simmons on it and I had planned on ditchin it as soon as it got home. Its still on there. Its a good scope. I guess its the higher end Simmons, A-Tech, 2.5x10.
I also have good luck with Swift scopes. I have several of them. Good price and warranty is wonderful. Take it back to the place you bought it and get another one if it gives trouble.
I havent had too good of luck with any Bushnell scopes. But, I havent bought many, and none of their high end.
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dogleg
Knows what it's all about
Member # 662
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posted June 23, 2005 08:30 AM
Melvin,
I ended up with the Leupolds (Mostly), which is basically where you started I guess. It just took me twenty years to get there! Better late than never. Like you, that choice was made almost entirely on frequency of returns, with some advice taken from the few people I know that shoot more than me. Optically there are plenty of scopes that match or equal the Loopies, and that was the trap that I fell into. With the benefit of hindsight, that is sort of like picking a new truck by the paint, and only the paint. Shiney paint is very secondary to the machine that it is smeared on! There is a close paralell to rifle scopes in there somewhere. Sight first, optical viewing device second. Manufacturers and retailers have found that it is profitable and easy to sell good glass in cheap housings, and since most people want to believe they got a bargain it works.
Here's an open question to anyone with some thoughts on it. A lot of manufacturers have a few good scopes at the top end, and 90% junk below. How long would you stay friends with someone who lied 90% of the time? Far better to trust someone who is honest ALL the time, even if they are occasionally wrong. 'Course this coming from an admittedly slow learner.
Mike
Posts: 30 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | Registered: Jun 2005
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Melvin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 634
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posted June 23, 2005 10:57 AM
Mike,...I wouldn't say you are a slow learner..You just went through what we all have at one time or another..You are right about the (top end)"good"-and the(bottom end)"bad"with some of the scopes being manufactured by major scope companys..It's all about sales to those that can't afford a good scope,and those that can..The same thing with the gun manufactures and even ammunition,the list goes on and on..Sometimes we have to give up quality,for something we can afford and sometimes we can afford it,and it's not quality. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 661 | From: PA. | Registered: Apr 2005
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