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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 26, 2007, 07:48 PM:
When you guys put up your cats, do you prefer wood or wire?
When you use wire, what size?
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 26, 2007, 08:12 PM:
Tim, I have always used wood. In talking to some of the biggest cat buyers in the west every one of them told me that they will discount cats stretched on wire 30 to 50%. They don't want them. Too many of them fall apart in the tanning process. The wire is too narrow and leaves a burn.
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on July 26, 2007, 08:31 PM:
Tim, I use wire, usually a number 4 or 5. If you use borax and just stretch fur side out with no turning, wire is a must to use. I just started using borax and really like it.
Randy
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2007, 09:28 PM:
Randy, what's this no turnng stuff? You mean that literally? Not even for a day? How is it an advantage? I've never used borax, just salt or no salt. Never used boards, either? 'splain me?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on July 27, 2007, 04:46 AM:
If I had high quality cats like Cal, I would definately use boards. Wood makes the hide look fuller and you can do a lot more with push pins.
I use borax on cats, coyotes, and fox. Not on anything greasy. Skin and flesh as usual, then with the fur in, give a good coating of borax. A long narrow container partially filled with borax makes it easy. Make sure all of the hide gets a good coating of the powder, especially around the arm pits.
Pull on a wire stretcher with the fur side out and pull the front legs to the outside. You will probablly need to put a bent piece of wire in the legs to keep them open to allow for air circulation. Also, the legs can be raised towards the head and pinned with cardboard in order to show more spots. A spacer, such as a wooden yard stick or scrap piece of pvc pipe,is shoved in from the bottom to allow air to circulate. Hang the stretcher and wait a few days. Depends on the humidity. A fan blowing on them helps too.
Randy
Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 27, 2007, 08:07 PM:
I didn't realize there was a big demand for a stretched kitty.
I know where a slightly used one is if anyone is interested.
[ July 27, 2007, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on July 28, 2007, 10:19 AM:
Tim,
I have used both, and I prefer wood hands down.
The best made boards are made by a guy in Wis.
You can get them from him through the Coyotesrus trapping board. He goes by the name of HappyPlumber.
Finest cat and coyote stretchers I ever saw.
Do like Randy said and use borax. Also after the hide is dry, put it back into a container of Clean borax and work it into the fur real good. It will glisten and really brighten the fur. The whites get brighter and really shows those spots.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 28, 2007, 10:25 AM:
For those of you who use wood, do you use an adjustable stretcher, or a one piece?
I've a couple of dozen coon boards out in the shed, but it's rare to find a coon in this area. I was thinking about trimming a couple of them down in the shoulder area.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 28, 2007, 11:07 AM:
Mine are adjustable Tim. And it will take a couple different sizes to cover all your bases. I use a fox size stretcher for yearlings and small females, and a coyote/ large cat size for the biguns.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on July 28, 2007, 02:24 PM:
Steve,
Using borax on the fur side was proven to me season before last. At fur auction, averages were going $100 - 145.00 on well spotted good sized cats. A buddy of mine had boraxed his and he averaged $195 with a top end taking the auction high of $266. The only difference between his and all the others there was that he took the extra time to habndle the pelts well.
Do you know of anyone that does that to their coyotes?
[ July 28, 2007, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on July 28, 2007, 02:44 PM:
Steve, I use Happyplumbers stretchers also, and I agree they are excellent quality.
Lance, I go through alot of trouble with my coyotes. I wash in woolite, and spend alot of time on them. I averaged 23$ on mine this year, which isn't bad for an okie coyote. Maintain
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on July 28, 2007, 07:14 PM:
Lance, Alot of trapper/callers borax their coyotes. It works for most of the predators.
Steve Wood from Nevada told me about his several years ago. He put it on his bobcat trapping video and he shows the ins and outs very well.
Tim, You can use the solid as long as you trim and use a belly board. Like 3 toes said, you really need several sizes. Woods video covers that too.
It is called Bobcatching 1.
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on July 30, 2007, 10:05 PM:
I've used wood, wire then back to wood. Bought a bunch of happy plumber stretchers and threw out all my homemade ones. Last order happy custom made a half dozen for medium cats and know I have 3 doz. total which works great as you always have a dry stretcher.
In a dry climate stretching fur out and no turning is the way to go. Head and neck takes a little time to dry but moving it to a dry stretcher helps. Of course it it needs to be reasonably cold to avoid spoilage. Cut some heavy clothes hangers in half, squeeze, insert them into the front legs and let them expand and the front legs are done. Insert a .5 inch x 18 inch dowel up each leg until it wedges between the belly and the stretcher and this will hold the front legs up tight to the neck for a nice presentation. Hang stretcher upside down for drying.
A properly wood stretched cat will bring more money then wire evertime.
Borax on the finished fur is the way to go.
Don't see much need for the borax on the inside. I know some guys do it I'm just not sure why. I know some garment manufacturers don't like it.
[ July 30, 2007, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on August 05, 2007, 05:15 AM:
Please tell me a little more about this borax. Do you rub it in? comb? Whats the process on the furside?
I take it this is just the borax you use in laundry?
thanks
Albert
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 05, 2007, 07:15 AM:
Borax is a dessicant, and a lot of taxidermists will buy the fluffed stuff special, or just use the 20 Mule Team whitener from the grocery store. From what I've read in taxidermy mags, I would think the borax would raise total hell with the tanning process and result in being docked if the buyer knew what he was seeing. But, I've never seen anyone do that. That's interesting.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 05, 2007, 08:42 AM:
Albert is right, we need an explain on how borax is used, although I don't know why, he ***** whole body?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on August 05, 2007, 09:11 AM:
I asked my taxidermist last year before i went to campout about Borax. he stated that borax is used to dry the skin and tan it when used on birds. On fured animals its used around the bullet holes to stop the growth of bacteria, which can cause the hide to spoil. For stretching hides and drying i would think salt would be better if used or even saw-dust.. For makeing the fur side look good and feel soft it wouldbe best to tumble the fur in a tumbler with corn-cob media inside and tumble for 15 minutes...
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on August 05, 2007, 09:56 PM:
Living close to Boron (the place where they mine Borax) I have a few friends that provide me with different grinds of Borax. I have tried them and end up going to Wall Mart and buying the twenty mule team laundry brightner. Reading the label it is a Dial product, as in Dial soap I am guessing. Long story short you get all the benefits of Borax, (it is a dehydrant and soaks up all the oils and stuff, also abrasive which helps to scrub the fur) plus all the whitening and cleansing additives of the Dial part.
Rub it into the fur with rubber gloves on so as to not dry your hands. The more you rub the better it gets. A large tray that can hold your pelt along with 2-3 boxes of Borax in it makes the job easier. Your pelt will come out clean, bright and fluffy as you will be pulling off all the heavy oils and such. Save and reuse the borax untill it gets too dirty.
Don't wash your furs unless you have a lot of blood. Peel your critters right away to keep the blood off of them as best you can. Once dry the blood will flake off when you rub with Borax
By not washing or just spot wash the blood and using some saw dust while fleshing your pelt will dry faster with less chance of bacteria.
Washing a bobcat hide takes the life out of it.
I see no reason to use Borax on the skin side for preparing hides for sale.
[ August 05, 2007, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2007, 09:12 AM:
Good info, Mercer.
I still have a question or two.
Exactly when are you rubbing the fur? Before you put them on a strecher, or do you rub them with borax while they are on the strecher?
You mentioned the armpit area. When I used to attempt drying hides in my area, it's too warm, here, and flies tend to lay eggs in the nose pad, stuff like that? Therefore, we mainly froze rolled hides and sold them green.
So, it could be even warmer around Boron, where are you hanging your hides, in a cooler? I have a few friends in Boron, one used to work at the mine, many years, still lives in town.
Anyway, it seems (to this kid) like the borax, rather than not being necessary, would be a good solution in leu of detailed scraping on the hide? A lot of those oils you mention on the fur side are present on the inside, as well.
I have read accounts of people putting tubed hides into a washer and dryer and raving about the results.
What did you do to decide that: "Washing a bobcat hide takes the life out of it." Not doubting, just curious?
Sounds like borax might be a solution to the bacteria, even if I roll and freeze?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 06, 2007, 02:19 PM:
While watching the "Two minute coyote" video, Finley makes a point to explain and demonstrate how he uses Borax. After fleshing, while the hide is still on the fleshing beam, he slathers the skin side with borax, rubbing it over the entire flesh side of the hide. He made no mention of using it on the fur side, and Ive never heard of that either?
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 06, 2007, 03:06 PM:
Borax on the hide side helps kill bacteria. Let's you stretch fur side out with no turning. On the fur side it acts as a cleaner.Really brightens up the fur.
I will toss on a little borax while fleshing to help gets some of those tough spots started with the knife. It lets the knife get a grip, especially on the neck and shoulders. Not talking about cats here.
Randy
Posted by albert (Member # 98) on August 06, 2007, 04:07 PM:
furharvester do you comb the borax out when you are done? Or does it "shake" out?
I've been told by the reps. from north american furs not to worry about blood etc. Claimed that there graded after drumming. Drumming removes the blood etc. Wondering if the borax would help.
They charge a buck a skin for drumming.
FWIW averaged over $50.00 US last year for our coyotes.
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on August 06, 2007, 04:52 PM:
Borax on the fur side (coyotes and cats are all I have experience with) really makes the fur stand up and shine. Rub it into the fur vigorously with rubber gloves and then shake it out. Blow it out with compressed air or your leaf blower or even your shop vac and then shake it again. I think you will notice an improvement.
Ask ten fur buyers the same question and some will agree. some will lie and some will disagree. The buyer I trust the most as he is a friend and trapping partner says that borax on the skin side stays in the leather and has the potential to change the PH level in the tank during the tanning process causing massive slipage. When used sparingly around ear and tail cartlidge should not be a problem. He downgrades accordingly.
If your climate will not allow you to dry fur out without borax then maybe you could fabricate a blower. Mine is made with .5 inch vinyl tube (24 of them connected to a plenum) and an old clothes dryer. 4 inch flex pipe between the dryer and the plenum, tube up each front leg and one in the cavity. 8 furs at a time dryed 90 % over night. Couple days on the stretcher (wood) and then change to a dry stretcher for a week or so. Works for me. Just use the blower not the heat!!!
[ August 06, 2007, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on August 06, 2007, 05:32 PM:
Lb, Borax is the last thing after drying is finished. Often done just before the sale. Sometimes guys are shaking them out in the parking lot. Not to many guys out west using borax on the skin side. I know nothing of borax's ability to prevent bacterias. Might be a wives tale, I simply don't know. Maybe cause it dehydrates the skin that would slow bacteria growth.
Difference between here and down there is that our nights get down and under freezing which helps keep the shed/garage cool. I open the windows\door at night and then shut it up in the day. I used to have a screen box that my furs dryed in about 4 feet square and 7 feet tall with a fan to fight the fly prob. My new garage is nearly air tight so not many flies. Keep a fan blowing on them helps.
We don't have a lot of flies in the winter up here. I wait till Jan to put up fur. You ought to stop by this winter on one of your NP runs.
A properly fleshed hide solves the majority of problems guys have with putting up fur such as tainting, burns, slippage and in my opinion the need for borax on the skin side. Most guys don't know how to truly "flesh" a skin. I have had a couple damaged cats come back from the sale and they hung on the garage wall for two years before the fur slipped.
A well respected old timer in the NV assoc. told me washing a cat takes the life out of it. Course it was an old timer that had me washing them so who knows. Turns out none of the NV guys are washing them. Know need to as they are choking to dispatch or a .22 short. Not much blood. Borax cleans the fur wonderfully. So I tried it and their right. Side by side a washed hide and an unwashed hide the washed hide is flatter and not as lively.
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 08, 2007, 12:05 PM:
Can one of you guys post a picture of these "Happy Plumber" type stretchers?
I got my hands on a bunch of cedar, and I want to build some. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Krusty 
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on August 08, 2007, 02:56 PM:
I would if I had a digital camera, knew how to use it, knew how to upload to computer and post.
I am probaly gonna purchase my first electronic caller this year. I need to catch up with the rest of the world I guess.
Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on August 08, 2007, 03:55 PM:
Can anybody offer some advice on a good newbie fur handling video? Ive never put up fur just sold frozen coyotes so I kind of have the itch to put some fur up. Thanks
Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on August 08, 2007, 08:39 PM:
Jeremy,
Blaine Eddy has an excellent and very detailed video on how to skin and put up a coyote. It's called Hunting and Skinning for Profit, I think?
Another with some great bobcat fur prep techniques is Steve Wood's BobCATching.
The Two Minute Coyote is another I've heard a lot of good things about but haven't seen yet.
Brad
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 09, 2007, 05:32 AM:
Brad just posted the two videos that I was going to suggest. Both are excellent!
Posted by Rusty Holt (Member # 350) on August 29, 2007, 07:44 AM:
I agree HappyPlumbers boards are the best. I'd get both adjustable and solid. When you get them, you'll say to yourself, "Why doesn't he charge more?" They are THAT good. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
The solid boards are great for pinning bullet holes shut. I plan on buying more solid cat and fox boards.
Take care and God Bless,
Rusty
[ August 31, 2007, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: Rusty Holt ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 29, 2007, 11:20 AM:
Thanks for that, Rusty. Damn! Those are some fine looking boards! Do they warp, at all?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 29, 2007, 11:42 AM:
Leonard,
HP says his boards don't warp. He's given a lot of advice on the internet on drying the wood so it doesn't warp, and has good water absorption.
He slowly air dries his wood, so that is is very stable.
Kiln dried lumber is stable, but it seals the cellulose chambers that make up the wood, slowing the rate of drying.
Thanks for the photo Rusty.
Krusty
Posted by Rusty Holt (Member # 350) on August 31, 2007, 05:55 AM:
No problem, guys. Trust me...these boards look better in person than they do in the pic. Superior workmanship.
Take care and God Bless,
Rusty
Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on August 31, 2007, 06:20 AM:
Where does one acquire these HP Boards?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 31, 2007, 07:14 AM:
I just did a search on Coyotes R Us, and he's listed as a member, but no links and his email is hidden. Probably somebody here who has delt with him knows how to contact? If nobody does, I can send him a PM over there.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on August 31, 2007, 08:47 AM:
I just PMed him last year when I wanted some stretchers built. There were a few questions he had, and we and a few PMs sent back and forth, but that's all it took and he was on top of it everytime.
I never could find an email notification for PMs over there.
Brad
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on August 31, 2007, 09:46 PM:
Rusty, you don't sew your holes shut?
I have dealt with Jerry Mueller (happy plumber) and only have his adress. I sent him a message on Coyotes r us and am awaiting a reply.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 01, 2007, 09:49 AM:
The best type of wood to use for stretchers is Basswood, very spendy and dose'nt warp. I use wire stretchers, solid boards, and adjustables. Two of the fur buyers i deal with use wire for coyotes and cats.
Which one you use is up to you and it don't really matter. What really matters is how the fur is put on the boards or wire.
Is the fur clean? Is it prime? Where the bullet holes sewed up or left open? Is the fur centered on the stretcher? Was all the fat removed and hide dried throughly?
I stretch most animals i get except coon, they have alot of fat on them and if you don't do a good job fleshing them they can spoil. My fur buyer even asks me to just bring them in skinned.
If you don't have the room or time to stretch the fur atleast skin them and toss in a freezer..
Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on September 02, 2007, 06:21 PM:
My two cents on stretchers based on selling cats the last fifteen years or so at the Nv. sale which puts together the top buyers in the west is that a properly handled wood - stretched cat fetches 10 - 20 % more every time. I have stretched them both ways and will never go back to wire for cats.
Happy Plumber, jerrym42@verizon.net
Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on September 02, 2007, 08:20 PM:
Thanks Fur, I appreciate it.
Posted by sparkyibewlocal440 (Member # 397) on September 08, 2007, 06:47 PM:
I contacted him by PM about three weeks ago.He said he was'nt taking any more orders till the season starts.
Posted by Rusty Holt (Member # 350) on September 14, 2007, 09:32 AM:
Did I say I pinned holes??? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Yes, very effective on those shotgunned pelts. I've had a furbuyer tell me it wasn't an issue. I wouldn't do it on big holes, though.
Take care and God Bless,
Rusty
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