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Author
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Topic: Some Of Today's Hunters???
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted August 02, 2009 09:42 AM
In my condition I am gonna say it like I see it, if guys get pissed off at me, so be it.
I don't understand some of the TV programs I watch about hunting nowadays. I guess I grew up in a different world. Some guy shoots a deer and he high 5's everybody, then they all hug each other and before that they're all hyperventilating, wtf is up with that? After they shoot the animal they are all still whispering, drives me insane!
Before they all start hunting they have to spray everything down with scent remover, from their car engine to their butt holes. Only thing is, they forgot to spray their bad breath. What happens when you fart with Scent Block?
Another thing is they have to cover their hands, paint their face like an brave on the warpath and then they put on their neon orange vest and haul up their stainless steel rifle. Talk about being counter productive.
Regarding predator hunting, I've been hunting predators longer than many of these pro staff members and the companies they work for have been alive, as have a few other members on this forum. If you've ever noticed, most pro staff members are younger and better looking than us old guys who should be pro staff members (but we know too much)lol, we are definitely more credible and much better shots.
Thanks to a lot of friends in the predator hunting world, I have received a lot of DVD's that I have watched and a lot of books that I've read. I have enjoyed them all and laughed at some of the "expert" advice you get from guys from New Jersey and Connecticut and Florida where they are overrun with coyotes....lol
This post is my honest opinion and I don't care if you agree or disagree with it. I don't have a lot of time left so why not go out with a BANG?
Good Hunting
DB
PS: Leonard, I am going back to my old provocative self.
[ August 02, 2009, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted August 02, 2009 11:07 AM
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
Good question, I'll bet someone knows the answer. Just not me, as mine smell like shit, cause I don't waste my money on gimmicks.
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Bob Mc
Knows what it's all about
Member # 237
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posted August 02, 2009 11:09 AM
I don’t have TV here, and haven’t had for several years, but I know the shows you are talking about Danny. Here’s a typical scene I always got a chuckle out of. A hunter has made a successful shot, and he and 2 or 3 of his buddies are following the blood trail of an enormous buck, elk, or whatever. Suddenly they spot the down animal, and the hunter carefully slips up and pokes the critter with the muzzle of his rifle to be sure it is dead. Now how did the photographer manage to get there before them, and have the camera all set up and ready to go when the hunters get there? LOL.
Posts: 15 | From: Northern California | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted August 02, 2009 11:26 AM
I know, I know.
"Suddenly they spot the down animal, and the hunter carefully slips up and pokes the critter with the muzzle of his rifle to be sure it is dead."
The program is not a show about hunting. It is an infomercial, carefully crafted to sell products. Whether they work, or they are just a flash in the pan, time will tell. The stick in the eye is just icing on the cake so to speak.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 02, 2009 11:28 AM
Yeah, Danny. I get it. Just shake your head and chuckle at all the gimicks and actions of the DVD and TV crowd.
It's real easy to toss around all those years of experience on the Internet but back when we were starting out, you couldn't even FIND a place that sold camo. Now, look at all the choices!
There are not a whole lot of people that can say they were routinely killing coyotes back in the sixties, yet we were and doing it competitively. Kinda got that out of our system, for the most part and now, who gives a shit how many coyotes you kill?
Why, my memory is good enough to remember a few of these celebrity Internet predator hunters when they were greenhorns and now they have all the answers and the posse that goes along with the fame and fortune. It would be funny, except....well, you know what I mean.
Hang in there Danny, we are all rooting for ya.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31467 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted August 02, 2009 12:12 PM
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
Never owned none (and never will) but it would probably kill you when you removed the suit at night.... if it worked like advertised.
Reminds me of why I always preferred hip boots over chest waders....
Good post, Danny.
I will admit to having bought a few coyote hunting movies but draw the line at the deer hunting stupidity. Sure hate to see this sport heading that way, too.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 02, 2009 12:48 PM
Your right on target Danny. I don't get any of the channels that carry the hunting shows but with the little I do watch, I can barely stomach it.
The way I see it is the majority of the stuff on hunting TV shows is geared towards selling stuff to the guy sitting in the recliner at home and I'd bet to large degree it works.
I would guess hunting show marketing tends to target the 22-35 year-old age group which is the reason for all the high fiving, tricky handshakes, and chest bumping that goes on when that wiley buck is killed with a .300 Ultra Mag underneath a corn feeder.
I get tired of being reminded that I need a TC rifle, cough silencer, a scope with something way more functional than the standard duplex reticle that has worked for decades. Adding some cool camo that will automatically make you part of a "team."
Gimme a break.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted August 02, 2009 01:29 PM
So this is what I get for telling the truth? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
The medication made me do it, so I have an excuse. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 02, 2009 05:59 PM
What I'd like to know is what's up with the demented, deranged laughter when the video hero kills something?? It kind of makes the rest of us hunters look like slack-jawed village idiots to the non-hunting (voting) general public. Some of these clods are doing as much damage to our image as the morons who shoot up road signs.
What was it that Pogo said?????
Hang in there Danny!!!!!!
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted August 02, 2009 07:01 PM
Good thread, I also don't get the hunting channell's on my cable plan. However every so often fox sports northwest has a hunting show during non prime time hours.
One was on the other day during my lunch hour, it was a giant commercial..Lol..As mentioned T/C Encore ahoy !! BDC or whatever they're called reticles & on & on.
This was before my time, but in the day i'm pretty sure plenty of deer & elk were dropped with fixed 4-power scope's & standard duplex retices. According to these show's that would now be impossible !!
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 02, 2009 07:38 PM
Ive only been exposed to the filiming side one time on a turkey hunt. What the video shows is nothing at all like what happened. It took an hour or better of out takes being filmed to get me looking excited enough for the film. Or at least Im told.
I walked out, like I always do, and stood on the floppin birds head til he quit. I didnt know you are supposed to run out the the bird hollering like a fuckin retard. I always wondered how they got the shooter talkin, flippin off the safety and the animal all on the same shot. Hell, they would have to have 7 cameramen on the scene.
Anyway, hunting shows are bullshit. I do like Les Johnsons show. However, it would be MUCH better with less out take filming. Just film the damned hunt Les, if you read this, and it will be much better. You kill enough coyotes that you could easily do away with the bullshit and have 3-4 kills per show instead of 1 or 2.
As for the commercials, I wish we could watch Les, for example, hunt for a half hour uninterrupted. But he wouldnt have a show for long. Maybe do some plugs during the show and less commercials?
My son watches all the shows, I cant hardly stand them.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted August 03, 2009 07:47 AM
The actual impact shot that downs the animal is probably the only real thing that happens while filming these shows. The safety going off and the prehunt decussion about strategy is usually filmed post kill. That is why these guys always know that the animal is going to come right down this creek bed from the west. You don't really think they are all that good do you.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted August 03, 2009 02:59 PM
The format followed by today's video editing is a direct result of their extensive research and input from marketing focus groups. They *are* conveying their message (products/services/fame) to their *target* audience in the most effective and efficient way.
The problem, for guys like us, is we're not in the "Target" audience so we miss the intention. A show edited in a manor that we'd appreciate would probably never make it past "marketing approval". Our "version" of hunting is too boring, too simple, too relaxed and too bloody for mainstream sportsmen in the US today. They need tips, products, cut-aways, women, intense music and unbridled enthusiasm to keep them focused and attentive for 21 minutes. The "Reality TV" craze of the last 5-10 years has molded people's expectations to the point they want to see their alarm clock going off and their truck running low on gas moreso than the oxygenation of blood on an arrow.
Having spent a little time working on some of these shows, it turns my stomach to watch them anymore. While on vacation last week I had access to cable for the first time in a couple years... and I saw half a dozen shows. On average, each show contained 4-8 minutes of actual hunting footage. Typical of todays deer shows. After ever commercial you had to re-live the previous 45 seconds of film... only to realize that the actual "Shot" was the same clip they'd used during the commercial and opening promo-clip.
I notice enough details that I cannot enjoy the shows. A man shoots a deer with a bow, gets out of his tree, tracks the deer and all-of-a-sudden a wedding ring appears on his hand for the first time as he lifts the deers head. The outfitter walks up in his church clothes... as if he was attending to other business... but he already has fresh blood on his hands from where he'd helped drag the deer into better lighting.
The problem, IMHO, is not that the editing process has been taken to this level. The problem is, it's hitting home perfectly with the majority of today's sportsmen. They want to see a Mossy Oak logo at every opportunity, they want to hear that 4 layers of Scent Lock is better than 3, and they want to see a guy playing with his Iphone from a treestand.
[ August 03, 2009, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted August 04, 2009 06:03 PM
Danny....good post
Jason....AMEN
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted August 04, 2009 09:30 PM
A buddy and I were just talking about this today at work. I also cannot stand the high-fiving and screaming, it's ridiculus, manufactured over-reaction.
Most people you see nowdays, especially young guys, are " Outdoor Channel" hunters, complete with every gadget made.
Im also tired of being told if I dont use a range finder on every animal, even coyotes, Im unethical, another Outdoor Channel indoctration.
One of the worst new shows is "Raw and Wild", the one with the Navy seal sniper and the exibition shooter guy. Holy cow that show blows.
Regarding Predator Quest, and all hunting shows, Andy L is right on, just film a regular hunt rack up some kills, do it like you got money ridin' on it.
Good topic Danny.
[ August 04, 2009, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 05, 2009 07:56 PM
As a rule, most of the shows I see on The Sportsmans Channel are deer and elk hunters down south and since my arch enemy/ nemesis is a self-professed "Georgeuh boy!", the southern drawl just pisses me off. But, when I do choose to watch a hunting video, it's usually calling and, moreso than not, it's one of Les's. A guy just needs to ignore all the run-up video and not concern yourself that all that was taped after the shot. Yeah, I know. That's hard to do sometimes. But, and this is what I like about PQ DVD's, there are things to be noted in that footage that Les won't mention, but that can be helpful nonetheless. By the end of the video, I can't often tell you anything he said, but I can tell you how he did this or that in a way that was different than what I've seen done before.
As far as the high-fiving goes, I get as annoyed as the next guy about that on TV, but since my regular gunner went and enlisted in the service, I've been hunting with a new guy and every time he kills a coyote, he gets excited enough that if you didn't know any better, all that jabbering and laughing would lead you to believe that he actually enjoys calling and shooting coyotes. 'Bout the third time I put coyotes in front of us and we connected, his reaction reminded me what drew me into the game in the first place - because it's fun. If it ever gets to be all business, and if the time ever comes when I don't feel that post-shot rush for having set up to do something, then doing it, I guess it'll be time to find another hobby.
I don't believe for one second that every one of you guys, in the fleeting moments after you hear bullet hitting bone, don't say a little "YES!!!" deep down inside. If not, why do you even go?
[ August 05, 2009, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 05, 2009 08:57 PM
Lance, a "thumbs up" or a shit eating grin or a compliment like "nice shot", or anything similiar is perfectly acceptable, when you kill an animal or two. And, not following routine stuff either.
What we are talking about on TV is the end zone dance, the chest bumps and high and low fives; over routine kills, just for the camera.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31467 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 06, 2009 08:20 AM
A bit of excitement is understandable, as is a bit of pride in a job well done when the plan comes together. Even more so after a dry spell. And yeah, I undestand that dealing with the problems created by the camera ups the ante.
However;
It's the 'End Zone Dances w/Taunting' that makes me wonder how many [__________] - fill in blank, this guy has ever killed. I would rather see less gloating & more explaining as to why the stand was set up the way it was. If the video hero educates me & entertains me, I'm much more likely to pay attention when he tries to sell me something.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
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posted August 06, 2009 10:21 AM
"Treat your first like your last, your last like your first, and never convince yourself that anybody else gives a shit."
While I'd like to say a cowboy told me that about bounty hunting in the Old West... it was a 40 year senior engineer wearing an Armani suit. We were standing at a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a project I’d spent an assload of time on, but his words have proven true throughout all ventures in life.
On those days I expected to stack fur but only scrounged up a single hungry pup… I think of his words. I may never do that again: and that’s reason enough to celebrate. On those magical days where I end up with half a dozen in the truck by dinner, I reflect on the humility of all the blank stands that got me there. That usually keeps my fist pumping to a minimum.
Hunting is both a private endeavor and a social event: where that line is drawn seems to deviate from one man to another.
I think there’s a direct correlation to the attitudes of today’s hunters and the longevity of their calling careers. Someone used “Flash in the pan” and I think that’s fairly fitting. The problem is, with the volume and organization of predator callers, so goes the future of our sport. The Indiana Deer Hunters Association is currently sponsoring 4 items that would handicap our state’s predator callers… I fear that in 10 years they’ll have their way with us if nothing changes. Leonard knows, we have a lot of “elite hunters” in our ranks.
PS: Lone Howl, that “Raw & Wild” is one of the shows I saw last week (409 yard kill). Another one was hunting whitetails in Old Mexico. That was the first free-range hunt that’s actually turned my stomach… unbelievable.
[ August 06, 2009, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Daryl
MODERATOR FORUM LURKER
Member # 3451
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posted August 06, 2009 11:03 AM
quote:
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
I'd imagine it works a lot like a sleeping bag; it seals it all up nice and tight for when you get back home (most of us have been in hunting camps where it all hits you in the morning when everyone gets up?). Then you can go home, get out of the suit, and share it with whoever's around to enjoy the event of your return.
Or, providing their wife isn't into such things, maybe all the guys can unzip their suits on the way home, and can share it with one another. You know, good quality "guy time" with the know-it-alls.
Ok, so I have a sick sense of humor.
I wouldn't really know about such things. I quit wearing skunk scent when calling after I got it on my boots one time back in about 1982. There were a lot of skunks outside of classroom windows at Buena High School that day, and no one could seem to locate them.
I'm sure sorry to hear of your health, Danny. You're a good guy, no matter what you say about yourself.
Daryl
Posts: 39 | From: Hereford, Arizona | Registered: Jun 2009
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted August 06, 2009 02:50 PM
My first response to Leonard's follow up was "Who says any of this is routine to those guys?" We've all seen the deer hunter wannabe a coyote hunter and listened to them tell us how this and that is how you do this calling thing. More times than I care to count, this same guy goes out and on his first trip, kills a coyote. All but convinces himself that he's the "schnizzle" when it comes to coyotes. Of course, he's quite a bit more humble a month later when he's still failed to score another notch on the totem.
In the event anyone in the video business is listening, here's a suggestion of how I think a video could be made very educationable for watchers. Show a wide panning view of the country you're calling. Then, show a Virtual Earth or Google Earth image of the same area (maybe a split image with the ground level look on one side and the up top view on the other, allowing the viewer to get a handle on what's out in front of you) and pinpoint where you'll be calling from, the wind direction, features of neighboring properties such as creeks, rivers, bluffs, ridgelines, canyons or other drainages that you expect to influence your stand, show the call or calls you'll be using and explain in advance the litany of different things that go into your decision to call at that spot at that time. The, show the stand being called. Pan with the camera. Show the shot. If you have to edit in all the post-roll stuff, do so but don't make it take up fifteen minutes of the show. Keep the music turned down so the viewer can hear the call, its cadence, volume and style. If you have the guts to really teach the viewer something, quit leaving out some of the special "trick" stuff you do rather than leading the viewer to believe that a simple jackrabbit distress is all it takes regardless of where you're setting up. It has been my experience that the people I have taught to call think more of me as a teacher and mentor if I can show them not only that I can call and kill a coyote or thirty, but that they can seal the deal as well because I give them enough to do the job and don't leave critical points out on purpose just so I can look good in the longrun..
After the shot, much like Les does on his show, take a moment to explain to the viewer what you did that worked and why, how your strategy unfolded, or, if necessary, how things went to crap, and most importantly, why. Maybe even go back to the Virtual Earth frame and show the coyote's approach and how it correlated with the topography, etc..
These are great educational oportunities for which most viewers that sincerely want to become better callers hunger, yet no one seems to be willing to see that, let alone fill that need.
Sure, a single stand would pretty much consume one 22-minute show, but anyone who knew a thing about what they were watching would recognize that they're viewing a clinic rather than a killing and the information gleaned from that one episode could be beneficial for years to come, or at the very least, fill in a void or two in your information base.
If you wanna be all excited and have a shake in your voice from the adrenalin rush, fine, but try to gimme something I can use so listening to that crap becomes more tolerable.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 06, 2009 03:20 PM
Along the same lines, I have said privately, a number of times that Higgins' footage of coyotes hanging around downwind would be a hell of a lot more effective if they first did a pan and said, straight out, in no uncertain terms that the wind is blowing "that a way" so that when he films a coyote yapping at him from downwind of his location, people already know, and they also saw the coyote as he approached and as he circled downwind. That is a lot more effective than telling the viewer that the coyote is downwind while yapping. Even the few times he sprays mist, it is difficult to tell exactly which way it is heading.
Free idea. Film a night stand. Spray some mist and pick up eyes from any direction then continue to film as the coyote runs straight downwind...and then a "BANG". Any reasonably intelligent person can connect the dots.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31467 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted August 06, 2009 04:25 PM
Yeah Lance, I almost forgot, the music, keep the music to a minimum for sure, as well as the whispering. I dont want to hear 15 minutes of whispering to the camera.
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 06, 2009 10:12 PM
quote:
as well as the whispering. (Lone Howl)
That's what's so funny about Byron's videos. The guy just can't shut up, on stand, according to reliable sources. And, it ain't whispering. He yaks like coyotes are stone deaf. Says, voices don't alarm coyotes.......
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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