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Author
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Topic: in reguards to P.M. group hunting
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 22, 2007 05:10 PM
Rich; I have tried to get registered with P.M. and i can't get in. Anyway i was reading some of the post's and the one that caught my eye was the topic about what you call truck hunters or hunting crews and how we are such an eye sore and so on... I don't live that far from you, so i invited you or anyone else to come up here and hunt with us for a day and actually see how its done. I know there are some badd apples out there, but there are far more good ones..There are enough coyotes to go around for all no matter what there hunting style is. The bottom line is keep the coyote population down so they don't become a problem.
Someone stated that in Iowa the average number of coyotes killed by a caller was six, thats not very many. And the iowa callers blame that on the hunting crews..
There are fair chase laws already in the books in youre state as well as mine, the problem is the D.N.R not enforceing them or the Iowa callers not turning in a hunter you breaks these laws.
I enjoy calling as much as the next guy but here the calling is'nt getting it down so i have adapted and overcame this problem with the new generation coyote. I wrote a little piece on how we hunt here and Randy Buker posted it for me on P.M. under the title Sadd bad news in Mn. in The greatwhite north heading. Go there and read it.
And once again you are invited to come here and see first hand how we do it according to the state laws..
[ January 24, 2007, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted January 22, 2007 07:24 PM
This topic caught my eye so I'm going to ask some questions. First, I would like to know how that type of hunting is actually done. I have heard some pretty sad stories as far as hunters tresspassing and running rigs through slews and chasing coyotes out to be shot as they run out of there. Is that the way you guys hunt them? Tell me a little more about your methods. You can understand why a lot of people take offense to that type of hunting. I hope your hunts aren't like that. A lot of those type hunters are not really hunters, just out having a good time drinking beer. Like you said a bad apple can portray a whole different picture on things in a negative way. On the up side, I can see where it could be a fun outing with friends. I would think it would take some planning aquiring land and hunting areas. Maybe I'm talking about somthing totally different then the way you hunt. If done the right way and legal , I think it would be a fun event. I like to think positive and have an open mind on things in general, so fill us in a little more on the methods. Hunters have to police hunters these days and turn in slob hunters to protect our resource and hunting priveleges. There are just soo many conservation officers for the amount of hunters so we have to look after our own.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 22, 2007 07:53 PM
TA17Rem,
I have read quite a few of your posts on this board. Some of those posts seemed as though you were wondering why your coyotes were not coming to the calls very well lately. Then I went on and read some more of your posts. You speak hunting from pickups and taking very long shots at coyotes. I then knew why your coyotes were not coming to the calls very well anymore. They are spooked now, and a whole bunch wiser. No offense intended here TA, but a man has to make a choice sometime. You are going to be a caller, or choose another method. I am getting old, so can't get out like I once did. When I do go out after coyotes, it will be with a call. Thank you for the invitation sir, but I must decline.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted January 22, 2007 08:23 PM
Doesnt sound to me by this post, or many other posts you have made, Tim, that ADC is all that neccessary in your area.
Just an observation.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 22, 2007 10:59 PM
quote:
The bottom line is keep the coyote population down so they don't become a problem.
Oh!! so that`s the bottom line. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 23, 2007 03:17 AM
Andy and JD,
The bottom line for ME is to have a few callable coyotes around for old farts like me. We don't have a large population of coyotes, so livestock damage is minimal. From time to time, there are a few instances of lambs being killed but this is fairly rare because there ain't that many sheep growers here. Now and then you will here stories of a calf being killed by a coyote, but most of the time there is no real evidence that the calf was not already dead before coyotes ate it. When you do have calves being killed by a coyote,it is usually just one coyote doing the killing. The killer coyote need to be trapped or called in order to stop him. Most farmers here are not willing to hire someone to kill their coyotes. They have more crop damage from deer and turkey. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Free roaming domestic dogs are more likely to be calf killers around here than the coyotes are anyway.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 23, 2007 03:41 AM
TA,
I hear ya on the calling. It's a tough go here as well. If I had to hunt your area & "wanted" to just "call".
I would try, the following;
High ridge/bluff, going East to West. Wind from the North. I would park my vehicle on the North side of the ridge off one of the ends of the ridge. Where the road, breaks the ridge in two.
Slink in & over the top of the ridge from the North & East or West end of the ridge. Stalk in no more than an 1/8 mile, plop down. Then commence to call, to the Middle & far end of the ridge. Et the flatland down below.
I would want a wingman, covering my backside over on the other side of the ridge from me, as well.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 23, 2007 05:04 AM
Rich, I couldnt have said it better. Bottom line for me is to have fun. I dont even care if I kill many coyotes anymore. Dont get me wrong, I still like to kill, but its not the "bottom line". I can have just as much fun watching a coyote as killing it. Especially watching him come to a call and his reactions.
We have about as much predation as you describe as well. Hardly any. Packs of town dogs cause lots more trouble than any coyote ever has around here. I suspect theres not a coyote problem in TAs area either. Seems it takes alot of vehicles cruisin the roads and scout farmers to find enough coyotes to drive for the day.
This "so called predator caller" will just have to miss that boat.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 23, 2007 05:16 AM
I'm leaveing to go hunting in a few minutes so i only have time to answer a few questions and i well try to answer the rest tonight when i get home..
ADC work: Here the coyotes are not a problem for the cattle ranchers or sheep ranchers, the problems they cause is with the pheasants. Most of the coyotes live and feed in the same areas as the pheasants and there for prey on the pheasants.
I have been out calling for a month and a half, before we started hunting them this year and i have had no results. As far as i'm concerned it is unproductive. I'm not out looking to call in one coyote a year and leave it at that.
The areas we hunt on we have permission from the land owners,and we hunt in 3-4 counties. The land owners have our phone numbers and they call us when they see they have too many coyotes on there property, some don't want any.
Rich: as far as the coyotes not comeing to the calls lately. They have never been comeing to a call as long as i can remember, once in a while some young kid well say he called one on his first attempt and so on. I have never seen the proof so i just take there word for it. I have yet to see it happen so my calling must suck. No big deal when i want to call some in i just go out west and if i just want to hunt them i can do that here.... I will finish up on this subject tonight...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5065 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 23, 2007 05:26 AM
TA17Rem,
It seems that you actually DO see the truth in my words. Spooked coyotes are mighty tough to call, no doubt about it. It is a sad fact that we must travel to area's with less people and more coyotes in order to have really good luck in calling the buggers. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 23, 2007 05:46 AM
Tim, Im not trying to pick a fight with you here. Im trying to understand. Its obvious you dont have a huge coyote population to begin with. There is no predation problem with domestic animals. Your protecting pheasants.
I guess Im dense. What the hell are coyotes supposed to eat? Do you not want any coyotes around? Your sounding more and more like alot of the uninformed rednecks around here that have the big bad wolf syndrom. Shoot every coyote they see on sight and wish the damned things didnt exist. When you have to use as many vehciles as you use and cover as much ground as you do, its obvious you dont have many. Sounds like you want none. Kinda strage coming from someone on a predator calling board, not?
Im just having a hard time digesting this. I mean, I hear ignorant remarks like that all the time, but normally not on a predator calling board. Or is it now for "so called predator callers", Im still not sure what that remark meant. So do you like coyotes or not? Do you like to hunt them for sport or are you just wanting more techniques for killing them for protection of birds? Do you actually enjoy the hunt? Do you like seeing coyotes come to a call or is it just the precursor to another dead coyote?
Im just curious. You have completely caught me blindsided with this topic. It really sounds to me like you guys need to get some permits and poison. If your gonna do what you do to kill them, why bother. Just eliminate them comepletly and be done.
Or, is there some sort of sport factor in this and the pheasant protection is just an excuse to use it? If so, thats the same answer I get from the road hunters around here.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted January 23, 2007 08:13 AM
If I understand this right Tim has called in the fall for many years, producing nill, and group hunts in the winter with the trucks, which produces dead coyotes. Tim wants to kill coyotes and calling isn't working for him in his area like it is other areas he calls. And he wants to kill coyotes.
And I don't know why we have to justify killing coyotes, saying it's to protect the pheasants, calves, sheep, pets, children, etc. We kill coyotes because we want to kill coyotes. Period.
If you want to kill alot of coyotes the truck groups and the hound groups kill alot of coyotes. In the recent F-F-G there is an article about hound hunting in Iowa and the "Afton group" killing 75 coyotes a season (one of my calling friends father-in-law is in that group). And I'm sure there are truck groups that do just as good.
Personally, hunting in a big group, be it deer or coyote or whatever, looses part of the hunting "feel" for me. You're pushing the animals by force to the gun. At some point you cross the line between hunting the animal and just shooting the animal. Just my opinion, but it didn't feel like hunting to me when I was sitting there waiting for the animal to be pushed infront of my gun for me to shoot it.
However, if it's legal and they want to kill alot of animals by this method, and I'm not doing anything to make it illegal, I don't have any room to complain do I?
If they are doing it illegally, tresspassing, damaging property by running through fences and tearing up terraces, then I should be calling and turning those indivuduals in. They give all of us law abiding hunters a bad reputation.
By the sounds of it, Tim is doing what we all enjoy, killing coyotes, and doing it the only way he knows how to do it successfully for his area, and is trying to make other means of killing coyotes successful as well. Pretty much the same as many of us.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted January 23, 2007 08:33 AM
Thats exactly what Im trying to figger out, Scruff. It doesnt sound like hunting to me. It sounds like elimination.
I dont care. I have no intention of ever hunting MN anyway. Just a bit perplexed about the real reason for this. Is it hunting, something that is to be enjoyed? Or is it killing for the sake of eliminating coyotes, period? I guess your right, if its legal, it doesnt matter what others think. Still doesnt stop my curiousity.
Other than the walking out and pushing coyotes, its got all the makings of the merry go rounds I see here on weekends. It usually involves one gun per truck window and a centrally located cooler of beer. I damned near got shot by one of these hunting parties one time, btw. They appearantly didnt see my truck parked up the road and shot at a coyote I was calling down a drainage. I heard the bullets whizz over my head. I havent thought too kindly of the practice ever since.
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Andy
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 23, 2007 08:43 AM
The way I hunt[spot/stalk], doesn't entice many coyote killers. But that is what keeps it intersting to me. Is overcoming their abilities, to see, hear or wind me.
Pretty much like calling, but reversed. I prefer go to them. Even when my hunt doesn't pan out. I get a good workout et did my best.
edit; One time I stalked in around a 1/2 mile on a bedded coyote. I was getting close, ready to go prone. Some jerk pulls up by my truck on the road. Et cranks off 1-highpower shot @ the same coyote.
Chapped my carcass to no end. I heard the bullet cut through the air. Momentarily, I was tempted to return fire.
[ January 23, 2007, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
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posted January 23, 2007 09:07 AM
Andy, I wouldn't call it "elimination", can't give them too much credit, the truck hunters leave plenty for "seed". They miss like all of us and running coyotes are low percentage shots.
Plus there are plenty of coyotes that hang out in the sections the trucks can't enter because of the terrain or cover. Lack of permission stops some groups, but not all, from entering alot of sections. In the end re-population occurs every spring.
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 23, 2007 11:30 AM
I'll tell you one thing right now. I have no problem with hunt and stalk. Whatever works. If you have a motive besides just killing coyotes, that's fine. Conservation, harvesting fur, or whatever? Coyote hunters are my brothers and I don't care what your reasons may be? You don't need any more justification than you enjoy the challenge, and have the fever. Let's face it, the sport suffers from too many wannabes.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
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posted January 23, 2007 05:03 PM
I dont have a problem either LB. Just kinda caught me off gaurd? I guess I forget we all got different goals. Numbers quit meaning anything to me a while back. I get a kick out of calling them in. Dont matter if I shoot or not, actually get more of a kick if a kid or someone thats never seen it done shoots. I dont even shoot if I see them going to or coming from the stands anymore. No fun in it.
Now, if I ever get to a contest, I might change my mind.
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Andy
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 23, 2007 05:28 PM
Leonard thanks for your opinion its means a lot to me and i appreciate it..
I forgot that some of you guys like to pick apart words and i left my guard down, also my schooling was'nt the greatest so my grammer is very badd.
I like the coyote more than most people do, i like to kill them with clean one shot kills if possiable, i enjoy just watching them and i enjoy hunting and calling them as well.
I like to shoot them with my 17 rem. cause it is fur friendy and gets the job done for me. I also enjoy skinning them and putting the fur up on boards to dry and then sell. The guys i hunt with where badd at one time but i have polished them up and got them thinking in the right mind. We as a crew hunt the coyotes for sport, to keep the numbers in check and most of all we enjoy it.
When we are out hunting together we don't get every coyote and we do leave some for seed so we have some to hunt next year. We know the areas that we hunt and we have a close idea of whats there.
If i was to stop crew hunting there would be others to take my place. We have alot of compatition on the week-ends but most of them are unorganized and don't do so well.
last year we took 137 coyotes not sure on the exact number and this year there are just as many if not more. We hunt all the coyotes according to state laws, radio's are used to let everyone know where the walkers are and were the coyotes is or going, the state requires us to have a permitt for the radio's, we have that. State law also says that a coyote can be shot at from the road as long as you are not indangering any motorists that are passing by. We do not go into the fields to chase coyotes with our pick-ups, the only time a pick-up goes into a field is to pick up a walker and that is if we have permission to do so by the land-owner. We do not have snowmobiles or 4-wheelers with us when hunting.. We do not drink beer when out hunting, we do smoke a few ciggarettes and eat alot of goose jerky.
This is how we hunt: Everyone gets up at sunrise and drives the back roads looking for tracks or a coyote standing in them, very simuler to looking for a place to call coyotes from. We do this till 10:00 and then we get together and decide where we will hunt first....
Once we decide where we will hunt we will send in one or two trackers depending on how big the area is and how much cover. The goal here is for the trackers to go to the coyote instead of the coyote comeing to them, just the oppisite of calling. If they can get into the area and catch the coyote sleeping then they will take the shot. Sometimes that don't always work and the trackers end up takeing a jump shot, sometimes they get them sometimes not.. If the shot is a miss the coyote is then running in the direction that he chooses to go, simuler to a coyote comeing to the call. We have 3-4 blockers posted at key locations that we think the coyote will come if the walkers get busted, two of the blockers are in there 60's or early 70's. Some of the blockers will stand behind the vehicle to get out of the wind, i like to sit on the end of a fence line or on the inslope of the ditch. Now the coyote is comeing out and is running towards one of the blockers (kinda like a coyote comeing to a call) the blocker then takes a shot at the coyote when it is close enough. Sometimes they hit him sometimes not, if it is a miss and the coyote gets across the road, and depending whats in the next section we will either go after it or we will let it go and come back some other time and try again. Lets say the next section is wide open with no cover, then the blockers will drive to three sides and wait for the walkers to try again. And again it can be a hit or miss.
Some of you maynot have ever seen a skinned out coyote, well they have the same body simuler to a greyhound, they were built to run fast and far and it don't hurt them one bit..
I don't care for hound hunters but i will stand along side them anytime, there tactics are different from calling or hunt and stalk, but like Leonard said we are all brothers and we need to stand together. If calling in lots of coyotes here was possible then i would call them, but at the moument its not so i do what i do..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 23, 2007 05:55 PM
Leonard, I understand the mindset of coyote hunters being our brothers but I`ll be the one to be bold enough to say that every ******* with a gun that shoots a coyote IS NOT MY BROTHER, in fact some of them are nothing but assholes with guns shooting at coyotes, plain & simple & most of them not only misrepresent those of us who care about the sport but they are down right damaging to it & us by proxy.
Anyhow....I could give a shit what justification people give for what they do, most times I just chuckle a little & move on. I personally hunt coyotes because I enjoy it & I want to, enough said, I`m not an ADC man & 90% of those that talk about such things couldn`t tell the difference between their A-hole & a coyote den anyhow.
Driving coyotes with trucks & shooting them out the window in order to save the pheasants would have to be one of the damndest things I have ever heard.
I`m with Rich, farmers suffer more loss from deer & coons than they do from coyotes around here, as far as that goes, coons do a hell of a lot more damage to upland birds than coyotes so maybe we should get some trucks together & roust out all the deer & coons & kill the sonsabitches before the american farmer goes bankrupt. See how silly that sounds, to me it sounds just as silly to say that about coyotes. Leave the ADC work to Cal & Scott, they know what the hell they`re doing.
I`m not going to go off on a tangent about truck hunters.....YET.
[ January 23, 2007, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 23, 2007 06:09 PM
Who in the hell said we where doing any ADC work. Here you can find the coyotes in the same cover as the pheasants, so what do you think they are eating? I don't care if they kill some deer, we have to many as it is. Like i said in the above post we hunt them for more reasons than just the pheasants. So i guess i'm an ******* , well i don't care what you think... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 23, 2007 08:13 PM
quote:
The bottom line is keep the coyote population down so they don't become a problem.
Call it what you like.
I never said you were an ******* , YOU did.
It looks to me, from what you described, that you do things by the law & who am I to argue differently? But for every truck hunter who does things legally there are 100 others who could give a poop about law, landowners, other hunters or the sport.
I agree with Rich 100% because I`ve seen it around here.....keep running them with trucks & shooting from them & you`ll always have a problem calling them in those areas.......you`re kind of like the guy who climbs up a tree with a saw & cuts off the branch he`s standing on.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 23, 2007 08:17 PM
Better yet Tim, why don`t you shoot ALL the pheasants then your coyotes will be hungry according to your theory, that should make them easier to call.
Let us know if it works.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 23, 2007 08:55 PM
Maintaining a straight face 'cause I'm neutral. However, JD that was one hell of a zinger.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 23, 2007 10:29 PM
Not all the coyotes feed on the pheasants, the ones up on the high ground eat rabbits and mice and so on. thats what i have been told anyway. I also heard that the Neb. are fond of sheep and if so you must not be getting youre share, but thats just what i heard. Anyway wether you approve of it or not i dont care and i'm going hunting again tommorrow and try to kill as many as i can. You have a nice day as well..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5065 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 24, 2007 05:34 AM
There was a cowboy from NE. & a cowboy from MN. riding along one day when they came across a sheep with its head stuck in a fence, the NE. cowboy jumped down from his horse, dropped his pants & got busy on that sheep, when he was done he pulled up his britches, looked at the MN. cowboy & said "you want some of that" The cowboy from MN. said "damn right I want some" so he jumped off his horse, dropped his britches & stuck his head in the fence.
The moral of the story is......stop harrassing your own coyotes & they`ll be easier to call, regardless of what you think they eat.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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