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Author
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Topic: Glad they got this AR/.17/.223 thing all settled over there
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted January 09, 2010 09:52 AM
That thread is better than watching a playoff game.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 09, 2010 09:56 AM
TA is keepin em lined out for sure. LMAO
Go get em TA!!
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 09, 2010 02:08 PM
Just killing time.LOL
Seriously though i believe the 223 is'nt enough gun unless you are just shooting called in coyotes with it.. I've seen alot of coyote take 1-2-3 hits from the dam things and they just keep on going. In some situations it just dose'nt have enough steam to be reliable most of the time.. Take a look at some of the hard core hunters that use the AR, why are they going to a larger cartridge like the 243 or 223 wssm and other wssm cartidges...I believe a reliable cartridge for coyotes has to move a var. bullet along at least 3800 fps.. I don't care if someone wants to use the 223 but in my opinion its not enough...now blast away... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 09, 2010 02:15 PM
Crap Tim, my 243AI don't move it's boolit but 3500fps.
And here all this time I thought calling critters was what it was about.
If you get a fast enough twist, then use a 77 gr SMK if you need a heavier boolit for the 223.
Oh and it kills em just fine at 2600 fps out of a little carbean.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 09, 2010 02:22 PM
The whole damn discussion is about "called in coyotes", and yet you're argueing as to weather or not the capability of the .223 is good enough!! And then right here you state that it IS good enough IF all you're using it for is "called in coyotes!
Funny chit right there!
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted January 09, 2010 02:25 PM
Doesn't everybody shoot called in coyotes,or try to,thats what we do right ?
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 09, 2010 02:46 PM
In Tim's defense, he can't call them in in MN so they just drive around and shoot them out of the truck.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 09, 2010 02:57 PM
quote:
The whole damn discussion is about "called in coyotes", and yet you're argueing as to weather or not the capability of the .223 is good enough!! And then right here you state that it IS good enough IF all you're using it for is "called in coyotes!
Funny chit right there!
If you go back to P.M and read the very first post the question was asked what are the pro's and con's of a AR. I gave the con's..Too badd i had to hurt there little feelings..LMAO
Yes TOm we shoot them from the road and out of brush piles and any place else they may hide and we shoot alot of them running for there very lives and like i said the 223 is a piece of shit.. Last year i hunted with a ADC trapper that took his AR along for just kicks cause we where calling in my area.. He shot two coyotes with it, one we never found and the other i had to finish with my little 17 pred. before it got down into the drainage.. Sure it can happen to anyone no matter what cal. but twice in a row.. I'd say it was time to dump it and get something better... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Youre right Tom i don't call that many coyotes here in Mn. but i make up for it else where.. How many have you called and killed lately???? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ January 09, 2010, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 09, 2010 03:35 PM
Tim, I've called and killed 6 coyotes this year out of a total of 21 stands made. Called 11 total. All with a 243AI bolt gun but I've killed plenty with an AR to know you're full of it.
Now if I could figure out how to get in more hunting, maybe I'd kill more but remember I just started mid December and my time is limited.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 09, 2010 07:29 PM
yip, went back and looked and everyone of the replys talked about "being quite" as not to wake up a poor little coyote with the slamming of the bolt when exiting a vehicle.
Like I said, the whole discussion concerns "calling situations". Let me quantify that statement since not one thing in "calling predators" is an absolute. As in this thread, the topic concerns "calling" which in turn is like saying a coyote always goes downwind, we all know that it's not always the case, BUT damn straight usually will happen if given the chance.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 09, 2010 07:48 PM
For those of you that like to use a decoy i have a special on frozen dead coyotes, standing position and a few sitting 50.00 each while supplies last...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2010 08:33 PM
I don't have a very favorable opinion of the 223, either, extremely marginal. Yeah, on called coyotes.
As we all know, they sometimes come in pairs and after dropping the first one, the second can be in high gear and those much appreciated 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th shots are at a coyote approaching a quarter mile away. This is a called coyote, yet it calls for more than what a 223Remington can deliver and sometimes that's not enough for a reliable kill.
I have used an AR 223 on coyotes. I don't like what I see. However, in SOME applcations, I have been known to use the Ackley version, so if anybody thinks that be a contradiction, that's okay.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 09, 2010 08:49 PM
You know in that thread on P.M. i don't think one member thats shoots a 223 ever mentioned or addmitted to haveing any run off's or spinners ect. But then i go to Midwest Pred where they have a thread on the 223 and about 90% of the guys that use one do make the claim that its not enough gun at times... But there are 1000's of hunters that use one and have no issues so i guess i'm wrong...
[ January 09, 2010, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 09, 2010 09:18 PM
TA "i don't think one member thats shoots a 223 ever mentioned or addmitted to haveing any run off's or spinners ect."
Tim, I've had runners with everything but a 25-06 and that's just because I didn't use it much. Had one today with the 243AI, my fault, not the calibers.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 09, 2010 10:13 PM
Yes Tom i understand that, it can happen to anyone.. What i'm talking about is a coyote that has taken a good hit and either runs off or goes down and then gets back up and runs or crawls off...I'm just saying i've seen more run off after takeing a 223 hit compared to other cartridges that the guys use here... The other day a kid that hunted with us for the day had a double come down the fence line and he took both of them out with his trusty AR. at close range.. He did a good job for his first double but the guys walking out in the section were'nt to happy about all the shots it took to put them down.. And when they brought the coyotes over to my truck to take home and skin i told them they can toss them... I hate to see what would of been good coyotes go to waste....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted January 09, 2010 11:03 PM
Well I'll just say that I like the 223 and just have had different experiences than you and Leonard.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2010 11:07 PM
I finally had the time to read all that dogpile on PM. Actually, I hate saying this, but the 17 Predator probably is a better all around coyote killing cartridge than a plain vanilla 223.....especially in an AR. But, hey, what has a better chance of winning the Indy 500, a Pinto or a Geo metro?
Just tell them that I, (Lenbo) agree with ya. That SHOULD shut them up. lol
Good hunting. LB
(Huh? Who's that old fart?)
[ January 09, 2010, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 10, 2010 01:55 AM
Ive killed a pretty good pile of coyotes over the years with my 223AI with a 52gr AMax. Honestly, its my favorite calling rifle and the one I have the most confidence in. Everything seems to be balanced out about right and knocks the shit out of coyotes. Without tearing the shit out of them. Ive had to come up with plan B as my son has claimed that one and he likes it just as much.
As you know Tim, I like the little guns too. I dont shoot a 17 anymore, but do have a 204 Ruger that is my main calling rifle. When I dont take my AR that is. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
There are tons of variables in everything. Coyote calling is no exception. When talking about a "called coyote", I tend to think of an shot of 100 yards or less, normally under 50. This doesnt always happen, doesnt happen everywhere, there are exceptions, but I think those are the ranges that come into most peoples minds, from what I can see.
At 100 yards or less, I dont see how a 223 can be considered too light. Like LB said, on multiples where your trying to get a second or third running away at longer range, yeah, it might be a little light. But on a coyote at 100 or less, it seems to be plenty of gun to me.
JMHO
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted January 10, 2010 05:54 AM
After reading two pages of "how to load an AR", I quit. I just couldn't read anymore.
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 406 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 10, 2010 06:46 AM
quote:
Actually, I hate saying this, but the 17 Predator probably is a better all around coyote killing cartridge than a plain vanilla 223.....
I'm gonna hold on to this and cherish it <big grin!>.
If ever there was a less interesting cartridge than the .223, I'm not aware of it. I don't even own one anymore. Still have a few thousand pieces of brass (prepped and primed) though. So I might pick up an AR sometime, if the jack rabbits ever make a good comeback.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 10, 2010 07:11 AM
"If ever there was a less interesting cartridge than the .223..........."
Oh, I dunno know; I've been told that my 30-30 is boring, passe, & out-classed. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7579 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 10, 2010 09:00 AM
quote:
Doesn't everybody shoot called in coyotes,or try to,thats what we do right ?
No Dave not everyone shoots just called in coyotes. Some guys also hunt and stalk them or try to snipe them from the closest hill. When hunting them you don't always get a shot at a bedded coyote or one thats just stands around and says shoot me shoot me..LOL Alot of times a running shot is required and the distance can very from 30 yds out past 500 yds sometimes you have time to use a shooting rest to steady youre shots and other times you just have to take a standing shot... I've noticed through the years weither hunting deer or other animals if the animal is just standing there they seem to go down pretty easey in most cases.. But when you have a animal on the move often times it takes a little more to put them down...
I'm not saying the 17 cal. is the answer but it does work very well on standing or running coyotes, i can also show you a group of hunters that have been embarrassed more than once by it also...By looking at the vel. charts the 223 imp. would be a better choice along with a 222-mag. or even the 204 with the right bullet..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2010 09:43 AM
Don't worry, Dave. I also appreciate the irony of that statement. Good description; a 223 is criminally "boring". Kinda like a 30'06?
There is suitable and there is unsuitable. If a person can't do any better than a 223 AR, he isn't trying very hard. Then there is this bullshit about noisy loading and "click" when being stealthy. Then there's that handle that is always getting in the way. I have never seen a military firearm less suited for a hunting application.
Actually, I think it is very possible that a few AR users just like playing soldier? Except Kelly, of course. (pause) All HM members excepted, everybody gets a car!!!!!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted January 10, 2010 10:36 AM
Kind of like the guys with the 5000 dollar sniper rifle setups calling coyotes. Ive seen the long range hunting stuff on tv and in real life, but most of these guys are spending money to look cool, or feel like they are a sniper of some sort, they cant even begin to know how to utilize that setup. Not all, but I would venture to say most.
A little off topic.
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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