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Author
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Topic: Wrapped up my longline (lol)
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 08, 2011 07:12 PM
Well, after four grueling days of running my six foothold traps, I pulled all my steel and called it good. Five possums in six traps. Luckily, two of them were real Booners, the wall hanging kind.
In any event, I uploaded the final pics from my trapping vacation and thought I would share.
Of course, I did catch a smattering of coons. This guy fell into a trail set for coyotes.
And I told you I was gonna share with you a couple peculiarities with those lovely opossi (is that the plural for opossums?)
First, of course, they're a marsupial and the only one in North America, complete with their pouch, not very well developed in this juvenile female, but there nonetheless
and, aside from a two-headed, forked penis, the most surprising thing I ever saw on one was that they have fingerprints.
Of course, did a lot of calling this week and didn't see crap - the annual late Dec/ early Jan shutdown for two or three weeks that those bastards always do right before breeding time. There was this one lone coyote doing what all Kansas coyotes do - running like hell - which I came upon after turning a coner. I shodowed him from a half-mile away for most of a mkile and he never let up. Sorry for the picture quality, but I had my camera zoomed as far as it would go shooting through an open passenger side window going forty miles per hour with the coyote still most of a half-mile away.
But, I did see all these critters who came to see me while I was calling some thick stuff down in the trees hoping to stumble upon a cat.
The bird distress really pissed this fox squirrel off
And this raft of crows came back every time I switched sounds
And just as I got done, this juvie red-tailed hawk came in to check things out. Note the thickness of that grass - it's over seven feet tall when the wind doesn't have it laid over. Good place to hide a coyote and there are four coming and going from this small pasture every day, but do you think they'd stick their heads out coming to the call?!?
Part of the reason for my slowdown this year has been the pressure on these coyotes from me and the dog wagons. The wagons are staying close to home due to mange elsewhere and gas prices. For those of you who have never seen a dog wagon before, I grabbed this pic when I met one of the local crews just outside of town.
The dogs onboard this rig are a mix of Irish Wolfhound and racing greyhound stock as the guy driving that truck owns a large breeding kennel for racing greyhounds. The truck is four wheel drive with a heavy duty brushguard and push bumper and full-length skid plates to protect the undercarriage. The dogs can move from driver's to passenger-side as they need to and they keep their heads out like they are here so they can catch sight of the coyote once the driver gets a "race" going. The driver gets a coyote in open country and gets as close as he can before braking to a stop, or nearly so, then he pulls either of two cables that run from the spring lever on the doors on either side of the dog box through holes in the top rear corners of the truck cab which, in turn, unlatch the doors. The door hinges across the bottom, it falls open creating a ramp of sorts that the dogs launch themselves from, onto the ground where they take chase after the coyote. Amongst that pack of dogs is a mix of take down dogs and kill dogs. Take down dogs are faster and more agile, and their job is to grab the coyote by the hind end and roll him up. The kill dogs then grab the coyote and hold on, often grabbing it by the throat until they kill it. Most chases, once the dogs hit the ground, last less than thirty seconds, and occasionally, the coyote does escape. If it can get out of sight of the dogs, they'll literally forget what they were doing and just stop and mill around. Greyhounds are strictly sight hounds and do not track by scent.
[ January 08, 2011, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 08, 2011 07:31 PM
Don't worry about my bandwidth, it's my gift to the sport. Besides, your subject was/is something with which I am not familiar.
Also, it's amazing that opossum let's you handle him like that! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good hunting. LB
edit: those coons are so darn cute. I can't bring myself to kill them, called them in before but I always hold my fire.
[ January 08, 2011, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 08, 2011 07:55 PM
quote:
edit: those coons are so darn cute. I can't bring myself to kill them, called them in before but I always hold my fire.
Thats the Californian in you trying to get out...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted January 09, 2011 03:56 AM
Interesting and informative post Cdog.
I must say, dog wagons are not my idea of hunting.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted January 09, 2011 08:39 AM
I just wish I had the cash that truck and those dogs cost... I could probably buy a new house!
I love dogs and hunting, but chase dogs don't thrill me. It's almost as bad as dogfights but to each their own. It's been done that way since way before any of us or our ancestors even thought about hunting with a gun.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 09, 2011 09:49 AM
A lot of ppl think that way, 49, and Niko, you're right, but I'm not interested, in today's world, of condemning another man's way of hunting his game as long as he abides by the laws. A number of the dog guys condemn rifle shooters because, in their minds, we wing as many as we kill and those coyotes become calf killers. To each his own, as long as they don't condemn me, we're good. I maintain a pretty good relationship with the area dog crews. They know what I do and I know how they do their thing and we try to give each other enough room to be safe and have fun. My family started coursing coyotes with greyhounds back when my granddad was in high school and used a 1930-something Buick with the rear doors remounted and hinged along the bottom and a 1X12 bulkhead behind the front seat to keep the dogs in the back.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted January 09, 2011 09:52 AM
Interesting, Lance--did manage to get one to bark at me yesterday very early during my howling sequence, but that was it. Thought I would catch them out and about ahead of the storm coming, but no luck.
That is a great pic of the running coyote...used to be a lot of dog hunters around Russell, but they have morphed to running and gunning them with shotguns.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted January 09, 2011 10:53 AM
quote:
I must say, dog wagons are not my idea of hunting.
And YOUR experience with dog wagons is what???
Here Lance, off season use for hunting rig.
I have hunted hogs,coyotes,coons, and even bobcats with hounds. I also currently have a little group of beagles that are hell on a rabbit. Some of the old houndsman(coyote) I know are some of the most knowledgeable people I have met when it comes to the behaviors of their target animals. Comments claiming hound hunting(including sight dogs) is not really hunting parallel other ridiculous comments like 'night hunting is not sporting and fair to the animal'. Whatever!! 90% of the people making the comments have no experience with which they speak.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted January 09, 2011 11:09 AM
wish i was where i could still go with some runners, man its fun to be there and watch
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2011 11:22 AM
Keep it up, Clark Kent and we might have to yank your Moderating position. I KNOW you don't want that! What's this about night hunting not being sporting? Where'd ya hear that?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted January 09, 2011 11:46 AM
quote:
I love dogs and hunting, but chase dogs don't thrill me. It's almost as bad as dogfights but to each their own. It's been done that way since way before any of us or our ancestors even thought about hunting with a gun.
Again, I personally don't much care for this style hunting but if it's legal then it's ok with me as well.
I got a bad taste from a group here running across my hunting grounds without permission. Their dogs almost killed my farmer's Jack Russell and he was pissed!!! Almost cost me MY hunting spot.
I agree that doghunters are some of the most knowledgeable coyote hunters out there... I think it's bred into many of them as a way of life... I'm OK with that, too.
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted January 09, 2011 11:56 AM
Hey Lance...
Great post on trapping, too!
That cat is a beauty. Thanks for starting this post, it shows there are other things to do than just shoot coyotes!
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 09, 2011 02:09 PM
Tim,
Whatever atmospheric/ environmental/ spiritual/ whatever factor was in play around here for the past two weeks apparently shut down for a while yesterday morning as that picture is the one and only coyote we'd seen out and about during that period. Very few deer out either. Then, yesterday morning, between my buddy and me, from sunrise to when the clouds moved in about 10:30 yesterday morning, we saw thirteen different coyotes, nearly forty deer and the skies were full of Canadas flying ahead of this storm system. Didn't call any coyotes, but they were sure running.
I can and will go on official record as saying that running coyotes with greyhounds is one of the most exciting ways to hunt them you will find. Very expensive, too. In cases where I have a coyote that won't respond to calls, I will occasionally call in a dog crew to run him out and kill him for me. My version of aerial gunning and an airstrike. Sure, they get themselves into some trouble with landowners, but not all are bad, pretty much the same as with callers and other genres of hunters. As far as their knowledge levels, I have one guy locally who was chasing them before I was born. In fact, his dad ran them with my grandpa back in "the day" and when I began chasing coyotes at 3 years old, his dog wagon, along with his dad's and my grandpa's, were the ones my dad and uncles hunted with. Good times. And Steve has nearly thirty years of records for every day he's hunted, every coyote he's killed, where, time of day and weather conditions. In his opinion, barometric pressure is the strongest influence on whether coyotes will move or not. I would dearly love to get hold of that information and subject it to statistical testing. Anecdotally, he says it's not worth going out if the barometer is below 30 or just above there and falling, FWIW.
As far as the wagons go, I have always suggested that they could be put to good use in large cities in bringing gangs and crime under control. If you watch "COPS" at all, you know that every time they have a car chase, it's some ignorant, uneducated inner city youth who bails out and runs on foot. When they catch him in his wife beater T-shirt and baggy pants, he always ran because his "driver's license was suspended".
Here's my suggestion...
3/4 ton Chevy or Ford 4X4 flatbed truck. Black and white with all the right lights, light bar and everything. Skid plates so they can jump curbs and and drive through underbrush and stuff, too, without damaging the truck. Five dogs to a truck. Wire-haired greyhound/ staghound sorts, nasty and all scarred about their faces, just like coyote dogs. Hell, paint 'em with a little blood like a coyote dog so they look like they've already been busy that night.
Call comes out about a "runner". "Enhanced Canine Unit", or ECU called in to assist. Dirtbag runs, hears doors drop, end of chase. I bet you that you'll only have to dump those dogs once, twice, three times at most before word gets around and all that running ceases immediately! Hell, just the sight of the ECU will have those whacky kids bailing out at intersections and spreading eagle on the pavement
"proactively" just to keep from being taken down. LOL
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2011 12:11 AM
You know, Lance. I have always suggested barometric pressure as a big influence on coyote behavior, but I never got a whole lot of agreement on the issue, mostly, none.
Okay, dog wagons might work? Sometimes I think they should just shoot the bastards.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
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posted January 10, 2011 09:30 AM
Awesome photos Lance! Never knew that about possums.
I used to always dislike the dog runners and never thought it was sporting. But as CrossJ said most people like that dont have the knowlege about it to make a judgement. It was up until a calling contest last month when I got to talk to TRinCO that I gained a little respect for what the dog runners do. It sounds like a lot more work and effort than I had believed. Lots of planning, equipment and its more about watching the dogs. I had always just seen the dog trucks around randomly and thought they just drove around until they saw a coyote and released the dogs permission or not. I understand some do that but most do it the right way. TR kinda got me actually wanting to see it done once. Also had some great stories about the dogs getting away or dogs that got free passes after out running several groups of chase dogs. Gained a lot more respect from talking with him and a different perspective of it. Coming from Colorado and never seeing dog runners where I was raised it was weird seeing them around all the time here.
It still doest mean I dont cringe when im out calling and see one go by in a area I call!!!!!
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted January 10, 2011 01:13 PM
I really enjoyed the photos and explanation on that dogwagon Lance. Thanks for posting it up. I was only exposed to it with a buddy up here when I was real young. Nothing elaborate, just a small pick-up with the dogs in the back in a canopy and turned loose after a fun road chase. He used a pair of dogs as well. One was almost a full Irish Setter, and the other was a greyhound crossed with something, but I couldn't tell you what.
You guys have it down to a science.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted January 10, 2011 09:00 PM
I saw a crew of chase dog guys out here, while out calling, down in Bakersfield area, that had a couple trucks with FULL exo-cages. The front end of the rack was built out pretty far from the front of the truck and sloped back at a steep angle all the way over the cab. They said it was for running full blast thru barbed wire, or any other, fences! Of course they said it wrecked the fence but oh well. Im like...Huh? Really? Yep, do it all the time they said.
Crazy people out here Im tellin' ya.
btw, I still know guys that run coyotes down with pickup trucks and shoot em out here. Even after predator calling has blown up like it has over the last several years, they still do not believe they can be called, I mean, anyone can jump on You Tube you know?
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 10, 2011 09:20 PM
And, because of dinks like that, we get all sorts of militant enforcement just because we pull off the two track enough to be out of the way. It's always stuff like that, that ruin things for everybody.
Good hunting.
Auburn wins. whatever
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted January 10, 2011 11:15 PM
These threads are what HM is all about. I gleaned a small nugget reading this on a subject that has intrigued me for years, but like the host's experiences, nobody else seems to have much interest in the notion. It's picking up a scrap like that that makes the bickering and blow harding a small price to pay for admission here.
Thank you Mr Cdog911!
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted January 11, 2011 01:35 PM
quote:
And YOUR experience with dog wagons is what???
Absolutely none. Because I don't agree with it.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2011 02:09 PM
Hey Geordie, I have looked at that pic and just can't figure out what your dog is doing and what you are doing and what is on the ground? It must be (what) a coyote or something and it looks like you have a hold of the dog's back leg? I can't figure it out.
Now, the part about dog wagons that I have always heard is they have no respect for fences and private property, but maybe that is the outlaws and not regular folks hunting locally, etc.?
Also, if 49 has an opinion, that's his prerogative, of course. He MIGHT say that he doesn't understand it and it doesn't seem like something he would be interested in. That's the way I feel about boar hunting with dogs. I have done it and won't do it again.
I don't want to step on toes, but I have a personal issue with bow hunting. It's my business and my opinion and although I am entitled to my opinion, I pretty much keep it to myself. Because, I think we all have to live under a broad tent, primitives, stick, rifle, all support each other because that's what the anti's want, divide and conquer. Pit deer hunters against bird hunters. Meat hunters against trophy hunters, on and on.
There are many types of hunting, some appeal to me and some don't. That's simple. Leave it at that. I won't knock dog wagons, never have, although most of what I have read has been negative.
I do think this thread has been informative, and that's a good thing, I say.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brad Norman
Okie Dokie
Member # 234
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posted January 11, 2011 03:06 PM
Most of the places around here where dog wagons are used are small communities where everyone knows the landowners around the county. Fences aren't a problem in those instances as the landowners, if not participating, no when the hunts are going on and encourage it, or used to.
In SW Oklahoma, where my family is from, they would usually get the crop duster involved. He would fly and radio to the wagons the coyotes he was spotting. It may not sound too sporting but this is how they did it.
Kelly - You probably remeber some of this. Thoughts?
Posts: 298 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted January 11, 2011 05:24 PM
quote:
That's the way I feel about boar hunting with dogs. I have done it and won't do it again.
Well LB, you better 'amigo' me right now lol; because the picture above is two of my hog dogs which we had turned out on some hogs. I wanted to show Lance the 'off season' use of the dog wagon. Thought he might appreciate the new level of excitement ofered by riding shotgun in a dog wagon with all the summer vegetation. The dog wagon belongs to a friend who used to partner with me on the hog dogs. Got rid of the hog dogs several years ago. Like Lance said, got tired of sewing them up, buying dog food etc.
Like Brad said, around here, everyone knows everyone. They have permission, or they don't turn out on that land. Of course there are some outlaws. Funny thing is, the game warden told me the other day that they have issued more trespassing tickets to predator callers this year than anyone else. Most are younger and from out of the area.
Trapper2, the pup I called you about a year or so ago was out of the two dogs in the pic.
As for 49....I guess I was addressing his preconcieved notions about sight dogs(which he admits to having no experience). Kinda like people assuming all cops are egotistical donut eaters with a god complex.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted January 11, 2011 07:26 PM
Yep I remeber. Knew the pilot and his son well. Seen him dive bomd a brush pile one morning and on the third pass a coyote ran out of it. Back then they would have coyotes hung on the fence for miles.
Myself I had rather call em, but do not begrudge the greyhound boys. A couple of weekends ago I had a pickup bed full of coyotes and ran into a couple of dog boys I know out south of Waurika. They almost looked pissed when they look in the back and said thet had only caught three that morning.
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 11, 2011 07:46 PM
Geordie, you know I can't get mad at you. I only address hard cases as Amigo.
I think hog hunting out here is different anyway. They get three or four dogs pulling on the hog for a while untl you catch up to them and they let go then, while you are like shooting fish in a barrel.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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