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Author
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Topic: Coyote calling demographics
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 28, 2005 07:04 AM
Byron, I did not use you're name in my post. I called myself a prostitute not you. Why don't you go back and take a look at who introduced you to this board, and encouraged the members to bye you're first "Instructional" video. You know the one with live Coyotes in the back ground while the high five's are going on.
Son (Texas definition) this is not the time to tread on me. I am watching my home crack and crumble every day from Rita shifting it on the slab while I was in it. Now I am waiting to hear from the insurance company if my home of 28 years has to be torn down.
Maybe I should not be posting in the state of mind I am in now. I come here to escape the destruction of my world only to see the destruction of a sport,hobby, addiction, business I dearly love.
I have only used you're name to promote what you do. At this point in time it would be wise for you not to use my name as some one that has tried to do you harm. Tell you what from now on don't address me, and I will do the same.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 28, 2005 07:12 AM
Scott, the demographics in this area change constantly, with calling pressure increasing at a constant rate. Phoenix is now the 5th largest city in the nation, six million people live in this valley. There are three large predator calling clubs in this metro area alone. There are three Sportsman's Warehouses in the metro area and each present predator calling seminars throughout the season with the objective of cultivating more customers to buy the related neccessaries they stock on their shelves.
They are successful.
There are no virgin ears left. There are no private honey holes left. I run into trucks of callers often. I see butt prints and brass in my old calling areas. This extends for miles in all directions. Tyler and I talked to the manager of a n olive farm down by Gila Bend , about 120 miles from PHX. He told us that he runs callers off the property 3-4 times a week, all week long, not just weekends. A rancher down by Casa Grande told us the same thing 2 years ago. He said he runs callers off almost daily. "They come up from Tucson and they come down from Phoenix." to quote the man. All areas of the state are getting pressured because the huge numbers of callers are driving further to get some elbow room. This state was a paradise 25 years ago. No longer.
Pampass Knowitall Calling Slut
Wannabe Whore
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted December 28, 2005 07:18 AM
I think this is a hell of a good thread too. One thing about Scott, he can generate some thought provoking ideas in a matter of a sentence or two. It makes me think back to try to recall if I have ever not given credit where credit is due. I have learned damn near everything I know from someone else. Of course a guy picks a few things up on his own, but I have made an effort to learn about coyotes from alot of different people. And I feel that I have been lucky enough to have spent some time with some guys that I really respect. Most of them never have been and never will be heard of on the great WWW, but they are guys that have made their living killing coyotes and were good at it and well respected in their field. I even went to Tim's buddy Craig O'Gorman this year. That was my 40th birthday present to myself and well worth it.
One of my best learning experiences actuall came at a team roping school years ago. Jake Barnes was the heading instructor and one of his theories was that a person could learn something from everyone, whether they were great or not. He said if you were watching someone that was really struggling just watch what they do, and then don't do it.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 28, 2005 07:29 AM
well, according to Tim's catagories (got to give credit ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ) I'm a coyote slut. Do it for free, and do it often. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm still trying to figure out the prostitute thing.
"Prostitute: A person who degrades his talents for money."
The "for money" part I understand, but the "person who degrades his talents" is the part I don't get. I don't see how Byron, Lance, or anyone is "degrading his talents" by the making of their products for sale. They're selling knowledge for coyote hunting, just like Savage sold me a rifle for coyote hunting. Is savage a prostitue because they sold the rifle for money? Should they have given me the rifle? Should they have contributed thier knowledge of gun building, the materials, tool costs, shipping, production costs, etc and given me the rifle for free? Or by selling me the rifle for money have they degraded their talents? How? I'm confused.
As far as someone being given an idea and then using it to make a profit without giving credit to the source, well, that's why the gov't has patents and copyrights. If you want credit you patent or copyright it. Right??? Isn't that how it works for everything that is made or printed? The problem of someone "stealing" and idea someone gave them and making a profit from it has been around for as long as man has been here. Who knows, maybe the idea of the wheel was invented by Joe who told Tom and then Tom "stole" the idea and started selling wheels with the name "Tom" stamped on the side with no reference to Joe anywhere.
In the end if you have something that someone can use for profit you either patent/copyright it and make the profit yourself after alot of blood, sweat, and tears, or keep it to yourself. If you give something away for free expect it to be taken.
And once you give it away, is it still yours? If I give you a can of pop, is it still mine? If you tell me a coyote calling secret is it still yours? You gave it to me, I took it. It's mine to use. Right? Otherwise why did you give it to me?
Now if I lie and say I've been coyote hunting for 30 years, etc, I'm just a liar. Everybody lies, some more than others. Lieing has been around since Adam and Eve. It was wrong then, it's wrong now, but people do it. So I'm not surprised someone took something you gave them and then lied about it.
But I'll continue to be a humble coyote slut. Someday I might be a prostitute, I'm writing and storing off all my calling short stories (one short story per hunt) in the event I decide to put the best in a collection, one short story per chapter, and sell them as a book. I'm sure there will be a couple tidbits of knowlege in there even though it's supposed to be an easy reeding, take you along on my hunts, book. Since I'll obviously have to charge money for it to cover printing and heaven forbid a little profit that would help to pay the bills, I'll probably be a prostitute at that point. That'll be a happy day. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
later,
scruffy
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 28, 2005 08:11 AM
Leonard,
Although I appreciate your vote of confidence and/or sarcasm (LOL!), I am not a "legend" in any way shape or form. I have not done anything that many others before me have done and I am not doing anything that others aren't doing now. "Legend" is an opinion. Please spare me from further embarrassment you awnry cuss. LOL!
My "legendary" status is confined to spending 2 weeks painting bus sheds for throwing a match in a wastebasket on the last day of my Senior year in high school. I may have also received "legendary" status for my actions relating to a few parties I have attended at Vocational school. I might achieve legendary status by some for stirring the pot on public forums. Haha!
Other than that I am just a seasoned coyote trapper and caller that will let his accomplishments speak for themselves.
Quinton,
OG: "Often these same men give credit for an idea to a friend yet the true recognition belongs to where the friend learned or picked up the information. Thus, they disguise where the knowledge originated. Often because it came from a man that was a competitor of they were jealous or envious of his success. Their fragile egos wouldn’t permit giving credit to a man that had accomplished more than they because it would leave them insecure and make them feel smaller in their paper image."
Quinton,
Really think about Craig's statement. If Craig O'Gorman taught me how to trap, he's saying that I should be giving Bud Hall and George Good the credit since Bud and George taught Craig. Now you tell me how much sense that makes?
Credit should be given to the person who taught me, not to the person that taught the person who taught me. It's Craig's choice whether or not to give credit to the men who taught him. If I happen to know the originator of a particular method, it's more than proper to acknowledge the innovator but what's more important to me is that I acknowledge those who have taught me and their accomplishments.
I have personally learned a lot about trapping coyotes from Craig O'Gorman as well as a host of other good coyote men including some of which taught Craig but most of you would not know them anyway.
If "Joe the Hoe" teaches Sam Spam how to trap, Sam Spam might not even know that "Joe the Hoe" learned from "Bob the knob" (who attained legendary status from an old girl friend). Maybe Sam Spam didn't give "Bob the knob" credit for teaching "Joe the Hoe" because Sam Spam didn't know "Bob the knob" even existed, so how could Sam be "disguising where the knowledge originated"?? Think about it Q!
Ok Q, you can stop thinking about it. LOL!
Craig first assumes that Sam Spam even knew that "Joe the Hoe" learned from "Bob the Knob". Then Craig takes the leap into assuming Sam's motive for not mentioning Bob was because Sam was jealous, insecure, envious of Bob, and had a fragile ego. That takes quite an imagination wouldn't you say Q?
Craig also contradicts himself. He says "no man is an island" which is true so do we take this to it's eternal end and give credit to those who taught Bud and George since Bud and George wouldn't be islands either?
See how ridiculous his statement is?
Again, it's fine to give credit to where the knowledge originated if you are privy to that information but it's more important for me to give credit to the people who taught me.
I guess my "prostitution" comment has generated more discussion than the coyote calling demographics topic so we'll head down that road for awhile. Hehehe!
BS: "Your not alone in your seemingly, bitter assessment of others that would somehow like to enjoy and learn the art of calling critters and those that are willing to help them."
Just out of curiousity Brian, since I don't know you from Adam and have never seen your videos, would it be safe to say that you are helping others for monetary gain?
Secondly, why would you assume that I have anything against those who want to learn? Where did you derive that from anything I have stated? That's quite a leap considering all those who I have helped over the years.
BS: "Does the initial person that has an original thought have sole rights to that thought?"
Of course not. Does the person who showed you his favorite honey hole on public land have sole rights to that honey hole? Of course not. I doubt he'll buy you a beer if he sees you at that honey hole with someone else while filming a video the next time he goes to his favorite honey hole to shoot a coyote.
This is about respect.
To your and Lance's question regarding who is Bob and Joe? Bob is a an experienced fictional coyote caller who teaches a select few, that he trusts not to prostitute his knowledge, what he has learned over his many years of experience. Joe is also a fictional character who is one of Bob's select few who is limited in his experience but ***** what he learned from Joe for his own monetary gain and his own notoriety. Joe is so full of himself that he fails to even mention Bob's name as he's selling Bob's knowledge to others on videos and CDs. To my way of thinking, Joe is a real SOB hence, "Joe the Hoe". It really doesn't matter who Bob and Joe are because if Joe had any respect for Bob, he would be more careful about what he ***** to others disguised as his own knowledge. Nope, no contradiction in what I just said about Craig's comment because Joe actually takes credit for what he learned from Bob.
What purpose would it serve to mention Bob's name? The damage and disrespect has already been done. Poor Ol' "Joe the Hoe" will eventually learn that what goes around comes around.
BS: "Not sure if you've ever even seem my videos and we have certainly not met or hunted together, but what I've put on my videos are the tactics that I use. Most of which were learned by hard knocks and trial and error. Some were even learned from others."
BS: "I've never tried to claim credit for invinting a dang thing, and have never proclaimed to be an expert on any subject."
BS: "I have received advise fom many along the way and their help has been noted when credit was due maybe not on film, but I'll bet you will be hard press to find where I have patted myself on the back either."
BS: "I have never in the slightest way insinuated that I invented a damn thing when it comes to anything I do."
Hold your horses Brian, I don't know you from Adam. Never saw any of your videos. Don't jump to conclusions thinking my "prostitution" comment was referring to you.
It's good to see you acknowledge that you have never claimed to have invented a damn thing after claiming that most of what you teach was learned by trial and error and hard knocks.
Glad we cleared that up.
BS: "What seems to be happening here is that Tom told Bob then Bob told Joe then Joe took his own money and his own reputation and a lot of hard work, put it on the line by putting it on video but forgot to give Bob the credit. Bob got his feelings hurt because he didn't get to share the profits of Joe's work and risk. So now he's whinning."
Nah, what's really happening here is that "Joe the Hoe", with his limited experience, sold Bob's vast coyote calling knowledge and experience for his own financial gain and notoriety when that information was entrusted to him in confidentiality just to help the guy out. "Joe" is a parasite as far as I'm concerned. If you're not Joe, don't worry about it Bryan South. Keep doing what you are doing and let your conscience be your guide.
I find the opinions on this topic will vary depending on whether one is on the receiving and selling end of the information or the giving end of the information.
Trust me, I am not saying anything about Joe that I haven't already said to Joe. Joe doesn't have many friends left but he has the money he made from their knowledge.
~SH~
[ December 28, 2005, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 28, 2005 09:28 AM
Scott,
I think I see the points you're trying to make, but why now, and why here? In the last 24 hours, directly as a result of your initial posting of this thread, you've got Byron and Ronnie at each other's throats, not to mention having offended several of us that may, in some way, consider your remarks to be directed at one of us, whether those remarks have any validity or not. You'd think it was July from the posturing going on around here today.
Byron,
The fact that I'm getting filthy, stinkin' rich off my writing and that I may have been included in Scott's first sorty was not lost on me. I opted to not get my panties too bunched up until I had the chance to let Scott further expound on his position. He has, and still, things are a little convoluted for me and I know no more about what he's talking about now then I did earlier today.
I guess if the impression by those outside the conversations I have had, either personally or via the web, is that I may be seeking credit for the experience and expertise of my contributors, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, without exception, every one of those contributors will acknowledge that nothing from me goes to print without the full approval of each and every contributor. In a few cases, those people have asked that they not have attention drawn to them, but those have been the exception rather than the rule. I've given full credit to every one of you that have worked with me, taught me, or offered me advice, so I can honestly say that I don't think SH's finger is pointing at me.
But, and this is my point, Scott, there are a lot of people on this forum that do make some of their income from calling coyotes and other predators. Somebody is going to make money, so why shouldn't it be people who have shown themselves to be the real deal by putting their knowledge on display for public consumption, then let the consumer decide. Today, the whole place is up in arms thinking everyone else thinks ill of them for something that all of us but one (apparantly) didn't do. Again, it must have been important enough to you that you feel compelled to bring it up. So, quit dancing around the issue, state your case and let everybody else off the hook.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 28, 2005 09:38 AM
Varmit Hunter: "The majority were made to pass on years of experience to old and new callers alike with credit given to the folks that helped them gain the knowledge they were sharing with the viewer.
The others that were also both old and new turned my stomach. They were made to say look at me. I invented predator calling, aren't you lucky I am coming into you're home so you can see just how great I am. No credit given to those that helped them. They reminded me of the end zone dances you used to see in the NFL. look at me I scored all by myself. No help from the coaches I had all my life, no help from my team mates. I am the almighty glorious one."
TOUCHE'!!!!
Bill Etbauer is a former world champion saddle bronc rider and constant contender at the National Finals Rodeo. The best of the best. He is continually acknowledging those he has learned from. When he received his world champion belt buckle and saddle, when the doors opened he walked into the arena with his hat in his hand while the others raised their hats to the applause of the audience. When Billy Etbauer is interviewed, he is continually giving credit to the stock contractors for the quality of their bucking horses and thanking those who helped him. When he's not riding, he is helping someone and teaching them what he has learned. When Billy Etbauer rides at the National Finals the crowd is on it's feet and he has received more standing ovations than anyone else. YA THINK THERE'S A REASON?
I doubt Billy Etbauer will ever do a saddle bronc video but I wouldn't doubt that some "flash in the pan" will come along to prostitute Billy's saddle bronc riding knowledge.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 28, 2005 09:40 AM
You folks should come up my way. Only 1 other coyote hunter in my territory ![[Cool]](cool.gif) . A couple thousand acres of cropland with brushy draws/creeks to hunt[permissioned].
Motels around $40.00 a night.
I'll put ya on some. You can kill'em all
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 28, 2005 09:48 AM
Lance: "I've given full credit to every one of you that have worked with me, taught me, or offered me advice, so I can honestly say that I don't think SH's finger is pointing at me."
So you got nothing to worry about then right?
I'm responsible for Lonnie and Bryon going at each other for a comment I made about neither of them? LOL! Ahhhh.....ok? If you say so!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 28, 2005 10:03 AM
Scott: So you got nothing to worry about then right?
You're right, and I don't think so. Truth be known, I don't even think I have a dog in this fight, so I'd probably be better off leaving well enough alone. Probably will, but you're the one that brought this subject up. Alright, you're trying to make a point. Fine. So, make it. Does this have something to do with Byron? Me? Cal? Ronnie? And if so, what about it? Better yet, why walk into the room, stir the turds, then stand in a corner and watch everyone fight amongst themselves? What does that contribute?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 28, 2005 11:03 AM
I don't get it. I always felt prostitution is a fine profession. Buying that "Savage" helps further the career too. Also the cameras, gas, warm coats, etc. In about a week I'll be introducing a brand new look in the world of prostitution. Is prostitution a sport, business or indulgence? Hmmm. Do you think a real prostitute wastes time giving mentoring credits to clients? Hmmm. If you wanna call writers, videographers, seminar hosts all prostitutes, Hoes or OTG's, it's all a matter of perception.
Why... just today I was tutoring what possibly may be the newest prostitute in the industry, but for now we'll just refer to him as a Hoe. fer sure, fer sure.
And yes. I get my feelings hurt everytime I see one of Byron's new videos, but then again, I've been struggling with an over-sensitive personality for many years so it's probably not all his fault.
This is fun guys. Keep it up but PLEASE don't head down that BrokenBack Mountain path. I passed perfectly good beer through the nose on that one.
Mentors - None.
Teachers - many, many, many coyotes.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 28, 2005 11:11 AM
Mentors - Many
Coyotes - None
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted December 28, 2005 11:45 AM
Man what a freaking train wreck. All these new callers calling in MY spots, educating MY coyotes. Makes me want to cry. Blame it all on the Internet and videos, of which you partake and enjoy. This reeks of hypocrisy. Then get pissed when credit is not spread in ways that satisfies. Some even get pissed when they don't feel that they got their fair share of the credit. Sounds like a bunch of women.
Ronnie,
First, Thanks for introducing me to this board. It's been an eye opener for sure.
I'm sorry for your troubles and wish you the best of luck in overcoming them. I have a few of my own. Who doesn't? We do the best we can.
My intention was not to tread on you Ronnie, but wasn’t going to let anyone by with treading on me either, even you. Though you didn't mention me by name it was very obvious your comments were directed at me. I'm not sure where your feelings got hurt, but you can rest easy. There is no destruction of the sport, hobby, business you so dearly love going to happen any time soon. And especially from anything little ole me, the Internet, or videos have done.
Wiley E,
I don't wish to play word games with you. I'm a pretty simple person without any ill intentions or motives. I dearly love to call coyotes and have been doing so since I was about 10 years old.(I'm 41, so my math would make that about 30 years). We have never met but from reading your post I think we may agree on more things than which we disagree.
What I took offence to was, very simply, your seemingly negative view of the profession I find myself in. I merely did not agree with your assessment of what I do for a living. I simply provide a product that is of use to a very small niche market. If money or fame were my intentions I damn sure wouldn't have chosen predator calling. I feel very uncomfortable in front of the camera, or doing seminars but do it anyway because I feel I have something to add to the sport of calling. I can assure you neither ego, fame, or profit is the key motivator. I do, however, make money for sure and make no apologies for it. In fact I hope I make a ton of money because I'm sick and tired of having to weld and build fence for a living and would much rather call coyotes. Read that carefully. No contradiction.
Did I learn a lot from others? Hell yes I did, but who hasn't? It has never been even remotely insinuated in my videos that I'm a self-made calling wizard (can’t speak for the others). I didn't grown up with a dad or granddad that hunted. Matter of fact no in my family hunted. An uncle gave me a call when I was 8-9 years old. I called my first coyote with that call and have been at it every since. Growing up in a farm a ranch environment gave me a lot of testing ground. With no mentors, I picked up what I could from magazine articles and when I got older and started getting around I would talk with other hunters. Most of these guys weren't callers but deer hunters with predator calls. So most of what I learned was pretty much self-taught trial and error with very little from outside sources other than a few magazine articles. Now, whom should I give the credit to? The magazine? The writer? Or the persons he quoted? You see, I didn't have a mentor. Sure I looked up to the same guys most of you did like Murry Burnham, Winston Burnham and Johnny Stewart. I took a lot of there advice and used it. I simply don't feel the need to run around spouting their names as shaping me into who I am. No ego involved, just don't see the need or purpose. Again this is not about egos and who gets the credit. I for sure don't want any.
Don't take my remarks or defensive posture as weakness, shame, or guilt. It is neither. I make no apologies for what I do for a living and actually take a certain amount of pride in it. Vanity? Maybe, but I think a poor country boy can afford a little.
While I'm on my soapbox, this "union employee" type mentality that insinuates, "the boss is making money off my labor" stinks of liberalism to me. My videos are 20 bucks each and I feel that is a bargain. If you don't then simply don't buy them, and don't hold you’re breaths expecting one for free. They weren’t free to me.
In the last couple of years, I’ve received a little notoriety in our sport. I actually find it somewhat flattering but kind of silly. I’m still the same as I always was, and it this stage in my life I doubt I will ever change.
I'm going to take a breath now walk away a try to get some work done. I hate it when I let this stinking thinking get to me. I'm not as upset as it might seem by reading my post. Just don't quiet understand what makes some people feel the way they do sometimes. I suspect it has something to do with some type of perceived inadequacy maybe even my own.
You’re all a bunch of whores and sluts.
Byron
[ December 28, 2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Byron South ]
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 28, 2005 12:03 PM
Hmmm. I suppose I should keep my mouth shut at this point but it's just not my style.... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Lots and lots of ideas and opinions expressed here and perhaps all we video makers, seminar givers and writers shouldn't have to take offense unless we want to. But, Scott has never had the best tact so it feels that anyone who profits off this sport is who he's pointing the finger at.
I suppose that to give credit where credit is due, my next video will be two scenes of coyotes getting killed and 72.5 minutes of credits thanking everyone who ever taught me anything. Think it'll be a good seller????
You know, no matter what field someone enters into, he has mentors all through life that turn him into the man he is today. The best of surgeons had great teachers along the way. We all had help getting to where we are.
Not everyone wants to make a buck off of predator hunting. But, for those that do, the difference between those making a buck and those who aren't is that those making the money are taking all of their knowledge, adding in some sweat and hard work and taking the risk to do it. It's plain and simple. And, my knowledge is a mixture of what I learned from others and what my own experiences have taught me. No one is any different.
What I don't understand is Scott's apparent need for a pat on the back (or maybe a cut of the profit???) from whomever he thinks took all this info and never gave him any credit????
But, frankly I just don't care what anyone else thinks of my writing and video and making money from predator hunting. If that makes me a pimp or a prostitute, then I'm in very good company.
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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RonDell
PAKMAN
Member # 761
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posted December 28, 2005 12:12 PM
I'm somewhat new to the sport compared to most of you. So where do people like me fit in? If I read some article or watch a hunting video am I contributing to the promotion of prostitution? Personally I enjoy reading about predator hunting and watching videos about it because it is more enjoyable than anything I see on television. I know that some writers aren't the real experts but they have the art for writing on behalf of the expert that can't write or does not have the skill or time to do it. Everyone has their own expertise. Wouldn't it be boring if the hunter on camera was the narrator an all he said was "We are here to call some coyotes so we done it"?
Sometimes the middle-man is necessary in order to get something we have no clue getting on our own. Go-getters like Bill Gates are persecuted for their over-achieving by those who didn't invent the internet and now want to cash in on something they couldn't come up with on their own. Same thing for the Hoes talked about here. Their initiative is what's being attacked.
Thank God that Al Gore invented the internet. At least he gives credit where credit is due.
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Ron
Posts: 9 | From: LA | Registered: Dec 2005
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 28, 2005 12:21 PM
quote:
I doubt Billy Etbauer will ever do a saddle bronc video but I wouldn't doubt that some "flash in the pan" will come along to prostitute Billy's saddle bronc riding knowledge.
Say Bill is not going to make a video, he tells someone all his secrets, that person goes out and makes a video, doesn't give credit to Bill, some people buy it and learn from it and are better bronc riders.
Given the type of person you described Billy to be, is Billy going to A. be upset and hurt that someone passed on his knowledge and didn't give him credit. Or B. Billy will look past that he didn't get credit for it and know that the video helped alot of people be better bronc riders.
I don't know the answer, I don't know anything about Bill Etbauer except for your short writeup.
But what's more important, getting the credit or that people are helped?
later,
scruffy
[ December 28, 2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 28, 2005 12:35 PM
Last winter, I took a young new-guy coyote hunting. Spotted one for him over 1/2 mile away. Chewing on a cow carcass.
I said, see that little speck, out there..[I pointed]. He says "Where?....Ok I see it now"
I said, "There is a coyote feeding on that carcass & your gonna kill him" I'm sure he doubted all of this.
He asked, "Can you hunt that land?" I say's "ya"
We had to stalk into the section from the other side "blindly". We neared the last ridge, before the coyote. I took him by the shoulder & whispered to him.
"He's right over this hill, right there[pointing]. I said he's around a 110yrds away. told him to "do what, I do".
We crept slowly over the ridge. Bingo!...coyote a 100yrds, right where I said, he'd be. We both got a [SEG] on our face's.
He whispered, "I can't hold still, for a shot". I whispered, "Put your rifle across my Right shoulder. He did....Bang! Coyote down. Young guy, looked like he won the LOTTO.
Coyote, gets up, walking in circles. He keeps shooting can't connect to finish her. He asked me to, I did.
I was elated for this young man! I think more so than himself.
Cost him, nothing. But was priceless, to me
The other day, he solo stalked in on a Red. Shot him, 1-shot...1-kill @ 200yrds. I was proud of him.
[ December 28, 2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 28, 2005 12:40 PM
scruffy,
I guess the concern lies with future legends overshadowing the ones we know today causing us to forget them and history gets distorted down the road.
Aaron received death threats prior to breaking Babe Ruth's record. Babe Ruth was the greatest baseball player there was. Was he? Even though his records have been broken? I know kids who don't know who Michael Jordan is but a lot of BBall players use his style.
As far as predator calling goes, I don't want to be a howler like Higgins, nor a mister like Bosinski, nor wear out my shoes like a Q, nor spit 'bacci like a South, nor wear funny hats like a Behle, nor make videos like a Martz, nor brave the cold like a Buker, nor make 1000 yard shots like a Robison, nor record sounds like a Stewart, nor any of that stuff.
Oh wait! I'm guilty of not mentioning the original Legendary Hoes like Weems, Cain, Mossinger, Alcorn, Lindsey, Burnham, Lohman, Thompson, Bosinski, Thomas, Dougherty, Kitridge, Dudley, Higley, Mills, Henry, Clancy, Rogers, Blair, Moore and Bosinski.
[ December 28, 2005, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Bill
Knows what it's all about
Member # 49
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posted December 28, 2005 12:43 PM
RonDell in this little scenerio we're the Johns
Bill
Posts: 55 | From: Tucson | Registered: Jan 2003
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RonDell
PAKMAN
Member # 761
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posted December 28, 2005 12:46 PM
LOL!
Hope I don't catch anything.
Looks like we're just 2 Johns surrounded by a bunch of Hoes.
[ December 28, 2005, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: RonDell ]
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Ron
Posts: 9 | From: LA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 28, 2005 01:05 PM
quote:
Say Bill is not going to make a video, he tells someone all his secrets, that person goes out and makes a video, doesn't give credit to Bill, some people buy it and learn from it and are better bronc riders.
Given the type of person you described Billy to be, is Billy going to A. be upset and hurt that someone passed on his knowledge and didn't give him credit. Or B. Billy will look past that he didn't get credit for it and know that the video helped alot of people be better bronc riders.
As to the question posed by scruffy: I think the answer is neither. It would be "other" folks that happen to know the history.
Look, I think we have stumbled on a great buzz word. I had no idea there would be such a strong reaction to the word prostitute, as it is used in this thread.
Further observation. Some of you guys are taking offense; where I can't fathom the reason? Cripes, just laugh it off if you can't see where it has your name on it. The worst thing you can do is respond. Now, everybody knows that a nerve was struck and they wonder why that may be?
Pertinent statement #1:
You gotta have a thick skin on the Internet, we all know that.
Statement #2 we are all friends here, don't get bent out of shape over small $hit.
Good hunting. Madame LB
And, I'm a little miffed that nobody has mentioned my name as a vast reservoir of knowledge, contributing greatly to y'alls ability to kill coyotes AND make a living. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) (like a coyote god)
Donations in cash, Mastercard and Visa accepted, no checks.
edit: thanks for mentioning my name ***! the recognition is long overdue. But, only twice?
[ December 28, 2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 28, 2005 01:09 PM
For forty years all I did was shoot them. No videos or DVD's back in those days. No internet experts, either. Read an occasional Field & Stream article when I was in the barber shop. Read tips from guys like Jim Dougherty and Johnny Stewart. Got my "firsthand" tutoring from the instruction pamphlets that came with a Burnham Bros. and Bowen Weems calls. Never wrote a book, never even took pictures. For me it was fun, not business. Maybe I just don't take life seriously enough?
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 28, 2005 01:13 PM
quote:
scruffy,
I guess the concern lies with future legends overshadowing the ones we know today causing us to forget them and history gets distorted down the road.
I can appreciate that, but that will happen if credit is given or not. It's human nature to look at the living "legend" infront of you and forget the predecessor or not bother to learn who the predecessor was.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't give credit where credit is due, it's respectful and the right thing to do. But in the whole sceme of things, IMHO, it isn't going to keep the names Weems, Cain, Mossinger, Alcorn, Lindsey, Burnham, Lohman, Thompson, Bosinski, Thomas, Dougherty, Kitridge, Dudley, Higley, Mills, Henry, Clancy, Rogers, Blair, Moore and Bosinski in the next generation of callers minds as the time passes. It'll be South, Anderson, etc. And then those after them.
later,
scruff
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 28, 2005 01:15 PM
quote:
as the time passes. It'll be South, Anderson, etc. And then those after them.
Oh boy, scruffy! I think you have framed the discussion quite well.
[ December 28, 2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 28, 2005 01:17 PM
Scruffy,
I heard a YaHoo coming from East Texas on that one. You gave South marquee billing ahead of Anderson.
Leonard,
I was referring to past and present. That only leaves you unmentioned for "Future" and your "Future" depends on how your video turns out. what's it going to be called?
Coyotes in the Mist
I was a bit uncomfortable lumping you in with the Legendary ***s, but as they say "Indiscretion is the bitter part of valour" and Generating ire is far easier than winning friends.
[ December 28, 2005, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
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