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Author
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Topic: Where's Byron and Gerald?
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted September 25, 2006 11:48 PM
I've met Byron and I think he is a wonderful person too! We spoke on the phone once for about an hour or so and almost the entire conversation revolved around raising our children and our philosophies on building good character into them.
I admire Byron for doing exactly what he has done in the video world. I am a recreational predator hunter and nowhere even close to the level of expertise and experience of most everyone that frequents this board. I am self-employed and a bit entrepreneurial minded. I simply admire Byron for accomplishing his dreams! I am very proud of him and I hope that I can someday find a way to make a living doing what I love most. Being on the plains or in the mountains with camera gear or shotguns and rifles! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I admire Leonard for running the board like he does and thereby providing a real window into the thoughts of others and for being fair.
I admire Rich for his passion and dedication to understanding coyotes.
I admire Scott for his knowledge and hunting skill and know how.
I admire Tim and Dave because they are 2 peas in a pod and so very way cool!
I admire Vic because he is a legend yet humble!
I admire Lance for his flowery words and taxidermy & hunting skills. And his passion to protect the raptors! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Krusty for never giving up! And his great looking calls.
Q for his numbers and his passion to give up a little worldly wealth to surf the world looking for stuff to kill.
Jay for his Shrek doll decoy and sense of humor.
Jack for his sense of humor!!! But mostly his knowledge of not just rifles and ballistics but just about anything else that matters in this world.
NASA for his endless great stories and life experiences.
and........Holy cow I could go on for days!!!
I might too, but I like Gerald, must go to bed now!
Good night John Boy........zzzzzzzzzzzz
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 26, 2006 12:30 AM
Well, the buck does stop here. I'm ultimately responsible for what goes on, on this Board.
Gerald, I know you mean well with your post. I wish you could have had the same concern when Higgins, Cal Taylor and Vic Carlson were banned from predator masters without good reason. These guys are also fine family men, by the way. Collectively, they probably have in excess of 100 years of predator hunting experience? Compared to what, HONESTLY?
Fact is, those other boys have done some things that would piss off anybody. Hardly saints. We still have yet to understand the internectine struggles that forced Jim Champion out, on PM. Oh, and who were the main players? Anybody know? Who started threads, wrote some nasty stuff, stired the shit, and then deleted his involvement? The membership spoke? Yeah right!
Who told bald faced lies about Rich Higgins, attempting to get him kicked out of his Club? Who knows a lot less about hunting coyotes than he claims to know? And who claims to have three decades of coyote hunting experience, and is hardly 40 years old?
Well, I'm a nice family man too. I run this Board the way I see fit. I don't answer to anyone. I have a hard time shutting people down when they speak the truth, no matter if it causes some hard feelings. Yeah, I DO have to do it, from time to time, but I do not like to do it. I have had it done to me, (unfairly, I thought) and I know how it feels. So, I can't win. Somebody will be pissed off, under this policy.
Ultimately, everybody loses. I would like to correct one misconception. This is not a "Board War". It is about individuals. "Some" people keep wanting to make it into a Board War, but it is just about personalities. So, stick up for your buddy and bad mouth the other guy, if it makes you feel good.
But, hear this: I will not turn off discussion until I see fit, and will not entertain any suggestions to the contrary. These things will die a natural death. Blame me all you want; bring it on. I can take the heat.
Oh yeah, I have a thick skin, Gerald. Actually, that is not true, at all. I'm very offended. I have never said a single negative word about Gerald Stewart, and have strongly defended him on numerous occasions, going back many years. Way before anybody ever heard of bs, I might add.
Well, in any case, my conscious is clear. I believe I'm doing the right thing. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 26, 2006 06:37 AM
I mispoke last night when I said I would be out of the office today. I do not leave until later this morning. I am the guy who is in the Roserum ad that talks to Abe Lincoln and the Beaver. I laid awake this morning running this problem through my head and I will state to you what I did to another this morning in an earlier email. I am in a no win situation. If I make one side happy the other will not think so kindly of me. If I make the other happy with my input I alienate the other.
That is why I struggle at times to even participate on these boards at all. It is a no win situation.
I misjudged you Leonard. I thought that I would have been afforded the same tough skin you have provided to others in similar situations. The first time I say something that is negative, I am at arms length. I did not want it to be that way at all.
You do not want this to be between boards but yours and others comments on this board consistently make it a board issue. Just look at your post. Some on the PM board are guilty of it also.
I posted this with great hesitancy because I have tried to email you several times since your wife's passing with no return response. I felt that maybe I had already offended you by my absence and that maybe you felt I should have responded to her passing as a friend should. I found out about it from another on this board a good while after the fact and felt badly that I did not find out earlier. My throat closed when I heard about that happening to you.
I can not speak for what may have been said on the PM board because I do not see behind the scenes. They probably are not saints over there either but I do have a feel that they do make some effort to not let stuff get out of hand.
The last thing I wanted to happen is get alienated from you personally. If that happens it was not my desire. I appreciate the fact that you have not ever said anything negative towards me. In fact it was your earlier comments on this thread that made me feel that my comments might be welcomed, negative or not. I don't think you intended for it to appear this way but maybe I am only welcome if my comments are only positive ones. I hope that is not the case.
When I came out to hunt with you years ago, you endeared yourself to me at breakfast that morning with our conversation about our lives and raising our sons. I cherish that converstaion greatly. I hope this one does not make that one irrelevant.
I am a person who tends to look for the positive in people not the negative. I am not always true to that, but for the most part I can overlook the negatives for a long time while enjoying the positives. I do not give up on people very easy and will not give up on our friendship.
People who always look for the negative in others and dwell on that will never have very many friends unless they fall into that Birds of Feather effect where they run only with those who revel in the negative. That tends to look cliqueish( is that spelled right?).
Well I could ramble on a great deal more but I will stop here and see if I have done myself even more damage.
[ September 26, 2006, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 26, 2006 07:39 AM
quote:
People who always look for the negative in others and dwell on that will never have very many friends unless they fall into that Birds of Feather effect where they run only with those who revel in the negative. That tends to look cliqueish( is that spelled right?).
Most conflicts are negative by their very nature.
You have defended yourself and attempted to right wrongs that were done to you in court. You probably considered those to be negative experiences, but neccessary. Your opponents were probably good family men with nice wives and children. Saddam Hussein doted on his two sons. A good father. Irrelevant. I have a terrific son, but that did not stop Byron from telling either an outright lie or an inaccurate account of what he overheard in my home while he was accepting my hospitality and spending the night, to people that he new would use it to harm my son and me.
You have chosen to align yourself with Byron on this issue without having any knowledge of the origin. I am positive that you did not read the posts that led to his attack on me on PM.
Byron and RF have not had to type a single word on any thread on Huntmasters because his friends and supporters do so for him. One common hope is that this will cease and go away and yet Byron's friends cannot resist posting their opinions, based on their friendship rather than facts, and perpetuating the conflict. Doesn't seem logical.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 26, 2006 07:54 AM
Gerald Stewart,
I have always seen you as a true gentleman, and find it hard to imagine that you would not be welcome on this board or any other hunting related place. I believe the first time I met you was at a trapper convention in Sutton Nebraska. Your Father won the calling contest that day by blowing pup squeals on a Stewart PC-1. I am proud to have had the opportunity to meet your Father, and I am proud to have met you also.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 26, 2006 08:59 AM
Gerald, thanks for the email. I'm sure it will come in handy, one day.
Personal comment. You are always a gentleman and you are my friend, in spite of any differences; this being the first I recall?
Regarding that previous email. Hard to explain, but, it touched me. There are a number of people, to which I couldn't respond, about Nancy. I'm sorry. Maybe later?
When I think of people that do not deserve negative crap, Rich Higgins is at the top of the page. He has been attacked, both publicly and privately, for dishonorable and petty reasons. Some folks are just like that, can't help themselves. It's a charactor flaw.
Is "ignoring" these things the best way of dealing with them? If you try to make people accountable, now, it's you that is out of line? Sometimes that is the best solution. Other times, it doesn't solve the problem.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Alaskan Yoter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 169
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posted September 26, 2006 09:31 AM
Gerald,
I'm lowely nothing on these boards, and generally just speak up when theres seems to be, or appears to be an injustice.
For the record I would like to see all these boards succeed, but I was rasied "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" Not do as I say, and not as I do types.
I have noticed on PM you are posting more frequently more then normal, not thats a bad thing but I'm curious to why your not making a public post over there in regards to, PM dropping thier suttle little jabs at Leonards board. Not to mention the selective picking and choosing of what post are deleted. PM has always been notorius for allowing post if it benefits thier agenda, be it right or wrong, and in most case only act when theres attention drawn to the fact they aren't acting at all. Then deleting post that may damage thier image, even if they are truthful and tactful.
Theres several post over there right now where moderators in so many words are encouraging a board war, but this fact hasn't been pointed out over there yet? And most of the folks being encourage seem to have only been around about a year or so, and I'm guessing don't know any better.
I don't know BS or GG, don't have any ill will against them, and I'm not part of thier bashing crew, but I do think some of BS's post on PM are politcaly motivated, and I think the board is becoming more a "I push your product you push mine" type of arena. Not so much worried about the membership as it is itself, and the number of potential customers it can draw in. Thats just my opinion.
Just a side note:
We all might look at one fella and see two different things, and you have to ask yourself, am I only seeing the side of this fella he wants me to see? The BTK killer is a great example ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Ask his family if he was a nice family guy, and then ask the cops and the victims families what they think?
I don't mean this to piss anyone off, but I'm sure it will. I'm just trying to convey my opinion, and like I said, in this arean I'm a Pompassknownothing.
Todd
Posts: 235 | From: Wasilla, Alaska | Registered: Mar 2003
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted September 26, 2006 01:35 PM
I think the older we get, the more we want to speak up when we see BS being spewed if for no other reason that to justify our mispent youth by saving some poor sap time and money and effort doing what we know will not work based on our own experiances.
And I think the younger we are, the more we want to prove that we are just as good, even better, than those who are supposed to be older and wiser, so we boast both loud and proud.
And amoungst the din, nothing gets accomplished.
We forget the simple fact that God gave us two ears and one mouth, and placed them so that whenever we encounterd another human being we were constatly reminded that we should do twice as much listening as speaking.
But then Bill Gate created Windows, and Al Gore the internet and together they said,
"We are GOD, and there is no other GOD than the Information Super Highway! Go forth and Multitask. You have two eyes, pull up two message boards. You have two hands, type on each board.
And in the end, Al Gore grew fat, Bill Gates grew rich, and communication as we once knew it...
went to hell in a hand basket.
Which is just another reason not to vote for a Democrat or a liberal.
Al
THO Game Calls
[ September 26, 2006, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 26, 2006 01:56 PM
Al,
Your a wise man. Thats good stuff right there...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted September 26, 2006 02:50 PM
Al, that's right up there with the best posts I've read.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 26, 2006 05:25 PM
I'd like to nominate AL as the internet Guru of the Month!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 26, 2006 07:29 PM
Very profound, Al.
As for the rest of this matter, it seems to me both ironic and tragic that good men would think so little of BS and GG, yet still allow their actions serve as the divisive wedge that separates good friends. What's more important? Your relations with some of these guys that were once your friend? And all because of someone that you choose not to get along with any more? I agree that there is no one less deserving of the treatment he has gotten as Rich, but there's little chance that anyone will be swayed from their position at this point in the game. I say let it die its own death and if those guys at the other board want to keep breathing one more breath into it, then let that speak to their character.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted September 26, 2006 07:51 PM
Oh yeah, And I admire Cal' for living the life I've always dreamed of living!
(strokety stroke stroke.) LOL
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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John
Knows what it's all about
Member # 52
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posted September 26, 2006 08:30 PM
It's time to do a bit of scouting and a little critter killin'.
I will soon be headed for coyote country with a handfull of mouth calls and and old e-caller.
Perhaps when I get back, things will have settled down and all can enjoy the primary objective of both boards.
Good hunting to all
Ol'John69
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John.
Posts: 14 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jan 2003
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The Outdoor Tripp
Knows what it's all about
Member # 619
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posted September 26, 2006 08:52 PM
Crap. I knew Locohead wouldn't have a reason to admire me.
I knew it, I knew it, I just knew it.
[ September 26, 2006, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
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The Outdoor Tripp
www.theoutdoortripp.com
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 27, 2006 12:31 PM
It is not often I get to a point where I do not know what to say or how to say what I want to say. The signs of a no win situation are already showing up but I will try.
I have spent an entire evening and an entire business workday reading urls sent for posts on three different boards and writing this post. I am exasperated at how complex this whole sorry affair has become.
I never thought I could wave a wand and make it better. I now feel like our Fairy God Mothers, the Tooth Fairy, Tinkerbell or a host of other make gooders can't fix this. It is actually quite disgraceful in my mind on the part of some, disgusting on others, improper on a few and tragic for the rest.
I have come to realize that:
Using sarcasim and humor is an false front for some for others it is real.
Lots of people have a huge chip on their shoulders.
Jealousy is alive and well.
Ego's have run amuck.
Some people are absolutely shamless.
There is blame to be placed on all sides.
This format for communication sucks.
Men can be a lot like women at a tupperware party(petty jealousy and gossip).
I have learned things that I did not want to know.
The truth has been twisted, shaded, withheld, disstorted, fabricated, lost and will never fully be known to most.
I am tired of the emotional toll that these kinds of things exact on all involved.
as I read the posts, I was overcome with the feeling if the main perpetrators of this fracous could ever just get to meet each other they might actually like each other.
Hypocrisy abounds.
Factionalism is alive and well.
The Mutual Admiration Society takes care of it's own quite well.
Some who get held up by others as Gods to the calling community are actually on the wrong board.
The word Humble is not in some people's dictionaries.
Some pull the trigger much too fast.
Some are simply pot stirrers and have no real value to anyone else.
Some need to grow a little thicker skin.
Some need to take off a little bit of their crusty skin.
The term open and honest debate has been trampled on.
I am sure there are more I could list but I have lost the desire to go on for now. You guys have a value to me but not at the expense of my heart rate.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 27, 2006 03:51 PM
Gerald,
Why do you have to win?
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 27, 2006 06:16 PM
Gerald, good afternoon, Sir.
I spent an hour and a half on the phone with Pup this afternoon. We mended some fences and healed some rifts and ,good and gracious man that he is, he convinced me that although I admittedly have legitimate grievances he believed that I was capable of being the better man and could take the high road and let my part in this matter die a quiet death.
And then I read your post.
You, who has no involvement in the events of this matter, who has no stake nor grievances in these matters, who has no understanding of the genesis of these matters, who has publicly aligned yourself with the opposing camp, has , for some inconceiveable reason, felt compelled to throw gas on the dying embers and print and call your own a list of all the things that we three have been called and accused of over the course of the past three months.
For some reason, at this late date, you had to have your name associated with this mess and stir it back up.
Congratulations Gerald, you are a success and have kicked me off the fence.
I am deeply sorry, Pup. I told you that this wouldn't just go away. So maybe I can help it die a loud death.
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 27, 2006 06:19 PM
Don't do it Rich,
Stand above them with honor. Don't let them drag you down.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 27, 2006 07:07 PM
I think Tim's right,it's not worth it.It's like a Republican(Rich) speaking at the Democratic National Convention(P.A),no matter how right you are and how much sense you make they just can't see your side.LOL They're blinded by there own agenda.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 27, 2006 08:15 PM
That surprises me Rich. I feel sad that you would assume so much without knowing who my comments were directed at. Many of those were derived from others rather than you.
I talked with Byron on the phone just now and some of the first words from him were "a bunch of those were for us weren't they". I am in a no win situation. But I try anyway. At least he was humble enough to acknowledge my attempt to spread the blame around.
You seem overly sensitive to some of the observationns I made, I tried to design those so they applied to everybody. Byron got it. I am dissappointed that you did not.
Judging by the tone of your threat to me, am I to assume that you will be lobbying for me to lose my posting privileges like a half a dozen others have on lost this board recently. That is occurring on a board that prides itself on Open and Honest debate. At least you were given fair warning several times and then only suspended for 30 days.....not banned. There is a big difference in my opinion. That is one of the differences that probaly influenced my gravitating to that board.
At least Leonard has acknowledged his understanding of the constraints on my time. Going on two boards is a real burden. I made a choice because of the things I mentioned before.
I got a rare good feeling in this affair when I read that you and Jim talked. I met Jim for only the second time in many years last Saturday night, and I agree with you. My perception is that he is a good person. I feel badly that I have pushed another good person off the fence. It was not my intention to do that but can only hope you will reconsider my intentions and attempts to interject my viewpoints.
You are in error to some degree about me not knowing the genesis of how this developed. I would love to hear your side of the story from you personally. I have read your words and heard the other side of the story. You deserve an audience and I am more than willing to call you on my dime to hear the story. There is plenty of blame to go around.
I have only tried to relate my feelings and opinions about why I dropped off which boils down to management philosophy of the board.I felt compelled to answer the question "Where is Gerald and Byron". I simply put the reason out there. I can not speak for Byron but I can for me. I am sorry that my reason upsets you and Leonard, but did you want me to step out of character and lie about it?
Part of what is at play in this affair is the kinds of troubles that crop up when friends start a business together or one invests money with another. I have always heard the old saying that one fast way to lose a friend is to start a business with one. Well Leonard did not start a business with me and I have not invested money but the same kinds of problems can creep in. This type of format lends itself to magnify some of the problems that can ruin relationships fast. Misunderstandings, differences in philosophy and things like those can become devisive. It is a risk that we all run by participating. It has happened in this case.
I apologize for stating things in a way that have pushed you so far. I have frineds on both sides of this issue and probably have done myself some harm with some of them.
Tim you kind of sounded like you agreed with him. I apologize to any others who may have felt that I was intentionally targeting Rich. It was not.
You want open and honest debate. I have been open and I have been honest. I hope that does not get me kicked off.
Oh and one other thing, another member very diplomatically asked why I have not objected to the jabs on the other board. I appreciate the way he asked and the tone he used to ask that. It is a very legitamate question with a simple answer. The few that I may have seen may not have risen to the level that I felt were worthy of my attention because I did not even know that much of this was going on until recently. Shots between the boards have been going on far too long, so it may have seemed unimportant to me at the time. I could have lied and played like I had not seen any but I won't.
I did not know anything about the upheaval at PM back in the spring until about the end of June. I tend to look at very few threads in only two forums over there. If the jabs were not in those particular threads I simply did not see them. I tend to only look for subjects that interest me in my effort to keep up with what is going on with my competition. I did not know about Leonards wife for some weeks after, until a mutual friend of Leonard and I felt that I should know. He has now been Banned from the board. Not simply suspended after warnings.
Enough said for now. I need some sleep.
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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Alaskan Yoter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 169
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posted September 27, 2006 09:00 PM
Thanks for the honest Reply Gerald. Not that I expected anything less, as your a well respected icon of the predator calling community.
I first came to this board and just lurked around reading and picking up solid information, which I still get, but over the years I have came to repsect and admire most of the fellas here for thier information, cander, fun loving spirit, direct to the point attitudes, willingness to help out, and more impotantly for being them and not what anyone else wants them to be.
After reading the replies to some of this issues going on here, it just solidifies that respect and admiration.
Thanks Fellas, and again thanks Gerald. As you are also one of the fellas I respect and admire, and not because of your name, but because of you.
Be safe,
Todd
Posts: 235 | From: Wasilla, Alaska | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 27, 2006 10:18 PM
Don't misunderstand me Gerald. I'm not taking sides in this. I simply want this bullshit to stop before it rips any more of my friends apart.
Guys like you, Leonard, Jay and Rich have been close friends of mine for a number of years. Now I'm seeing my friends at each others throats, and it sickens me to watch it happen.
I'm beginning to look at The name Glenn Guess in the same light that I look at the name of Bill Martz. Simply because of the Arguments that get started every time one of those names gets mentioned.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Gerald Stewart
Knows what it's all about
Member # 162
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posted September 28, 2006 05:55 AM
I agree with you Tim. If you or others can point me to Glenn's jabs at anyone over here please send me url's so I can read and make my own judgements. Some of the stuff I have read to date just does not fit with the accusations thrown at him.
I feel that even though people joke about his smaller physical stature, he has a big heart. He is fiercely loyal to friends and protective of his family. I can not fault him for that. Where I would give him counsel is in the area of diplomacy that is required if you are going to be in the public arena. He provides a service or product to the viewing public and it is very important in my mind that a person in that position should use restraint in public discussion. He may be his own worst enemy when it comes to getting back in someones face in a discussion. I wonder if he is Irish?
There is a proper place and a time for that stuff. It is different for someone who is trying to be a personality or player in the marketing end of this business. Those who do not have a stake in whether or not they offend a potential buyer of their product can lob grenades all they want. There is plenty of that going on on both boards. There are a few that do that and I think it hurts them with the potential customer viewing. Maybe they just don't care.
Even outside of that consideration, I think the debates should be civil. I am really sick of the lack of civility in our culture and society now days. I am fearful of the future we have created for our children.
I honestly feel that if most of what was initially said to each other was said across a campfire instead of in this format, the vast majority of these ugly situations would not happen.
[ September 28, 2006, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
Posts: 419 | From: Waco,Tx | Registered: Mar 2003
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