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Author
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Topic: Any opinions?
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 19, 2006 05:27 PM
Anytime you use "xx", it's a given that the statute of limitations has run out.
Glad to see everyone having a little fun at the expense of my "moral compass". Seems to have pervaded every thread here. I've got a sense of humor. Kinda goes with my short fuse. Oh well.
So, has anyone else watched that Bill Martz video? What did ya think? Y'all don't like me because I act in accordance with the law. Bill doesn't like me because I'm a writer and have no credentials.
Did I ever tell you guys about the time I wrote an article about this one hunt where Bill Marts shot this hawk off a stump while we were hunting on posted ground he cut the lock on the gate going into because the landowner told us we couldn't go in there? If not, remind me about it next time we go hunting together and I'll tell you all about it while they're processing your bail release. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted June 19, 2006 05:52 PM
Lance, that actually was a true story. I may have taken some literary liberties with it, but true none the less.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted June 19, 2006 06:05 PM
Well that settles it then. I knew it was a golden eagle all the time. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Good to see you NASA. Last night I snuck up on a sleeping nighthawk and almost caught it. I was with-in about 8 feet when my 2nd youngest critter blew it for me. I would take a big step, he'd open his eyes and I'd freeze, he'd close his eyes and I'd sneak forward another big step. I've got really great photos though.
We did succeed in catching 3 mallard ducklings. We took some really great photos of those too. I found a glossy snake in Washington County at about 9:00 pm. and I won't say what I did with it since Lance is reading this. I did email Geoffrey A. Hammerson because according to him the glossy doesn't live in Washington County!
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 19, 2006 07:22 PM
Hell, Loco,, I already said in that other thread that I bailed you out once. You know I'd do it again, mi amigo. Right?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Okanagan
Budding Spin Doctor
Member # 870
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posted June 19, 2006 10:07 PM
Cdog911, maybe I read you wrong after all. Just wandered by here and anyone with your sense of humor can't be all bad. Your last few posts have been hilarious in context of the last day or so.
[ June 19, 2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
Posts: 269 | From: 49th Parrallel | Registered: Jun 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 19, 2006 11:17 PM
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
It helps to have a thick hide and a sense of humor on Huntmasters.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 20, 2006 03:20 AM
The grass is green, The sun is warm.
The grass is green, The sun is warm.
The grass is green, The sun is warm.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 20, 2006 04:20 AM
Okanagan,
My wife can and will attest to the fact that I hold opinions, and I hold them very strongly at times. Right, wrong, or otherwise, I'm stubborn in what I feel is right and no amount of argument will sway me from those beliefs. But, I've learned over the years that there are one or two folks out there that are just like me, but maybe not of like mind. I can respectfully agree to disagree with just about anyone and still get along. That is, up to the point where you whack a hawk right in the middle of a perfectly good stand. It's about there that you better have brought your Nikes and a cell phone.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted June 20, 2006 05:30 AM
CDog, I am curious if Rich's snake scenario above makes you re-think your black and white view of the law.
Rich was put in a situation of knowingly breaking the law by potentially saving NASA's life.
According to your earlier posts you wouldn't take the shot because you will not knowingly break the law under any circumstance. That is plain wrong in this scenario.
Maybe this will help you to understand one of the reasons why I objected to some of your earlier posts. I would surely like to think that you would smoke that snake in a heartbeat and some of your convictions are slightly less strong than you have stated.
I would like to think that the only repercusions from Rich's snake scenario were related to the stray pellets in NASA's hide.
A good man stands up for his beliefs - a wise man also is not so stubborn that he will not listen to reason.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 20, 2006 08:15 AM
Monkey Pile!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted June 20, 2006 09:35 AM
My take on Rich's snake scenario. I would hope that Rich would have said, "Freeze" before pulling the trigger. If the snake were that close, it would be my calf and heel that took the shot, not my butt cheeks. I could walk back to the truck with a snake bite, but not with my Achilles tendon blown off.
The easiest way out of this kind of situation (which I have been in before) is to just flip the snake out of the way with the tip of your gun barrel.
[ June 20, 2006, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 20, 2006 09:58 AM
NASA,
No,No the snake was behind you, remember?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted June 20, 2006 10:58 AM
Monkey pile? I did not intend my post to be offensive. I have little reason to NOT think that Lance is an honorable human being who would do the "right thing" in a life or death situation.
That said, my point is that we need to be careful with blanket statements like "I would never break a law". Yeah you would, under certain circumstances.
I too can make the claim of having been a writter, having spent about 15 years doing that sort of things years ago. Hundreds of documents, thousands of pages. One of the things that I learned is that you have to be really careful with how you write something - it is amazing how many different interpretations you can get to a sentence that looked perfectly clear to the writter. Misinterpretation of my writing could have been fatal to the reader in many of these documents - I'm very sensitive to how differently things caqn be interpretted. I think this is one reason why I rarely post on these boards, it takes me too long to type a satisfactory response.
That is the fragileness of this medium that all should keep in mind when writting here. If someone objects to what you said, keep an open mind and take a careful look at what you have posted.
Now, I think if that rattler was coiled up ready to strike and within a couple of feet of NASA Lance would blow the hell out of it.
I don't know about NASA, but I'd much rather deal with a couple of pellets in my can than the effects of a snake bite. What a horrible experience that can be.
I do not have any desire to inflame at all. If that is the way that this post is taken I will gladly butt out of this discussion.
Editted because I left out the word NOT above. That would have made my post totally inflamitory and I would have failed in making my point.
[ June 20, 2006, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: JoeF ]
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 20, 2006 11:08 AM
talk about misinterpretation? Joe, my post was poking fun at Lance, and had nothing to do with you, personally. I don't mind ribbing Lance, he's a big boy. Sorry you chose to take it wrong. I may revert to rarely posting if I have to explain and justify every friggin' comment?
Thick skin required and desired; it might be the only way to survive, here?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted June 20, 2006 11:17 AM
Leonard, I didn't understand the comment so I made sure that my intentions were clear. One never knows.
My skin is real thick, I just don't want to create dissent here because something I wrote might be misinterpreted.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted June 20, 2006 12:23 PM
quote:
NASA,
No,No the snake was behind you, remember?
OK, and does that put you behind me, as well? If I've already walked past him and if he didn't strike then, he's no threat. Except to the next person on the trail behind me. But you've already seen him, so you could easily walk around him now, and once again, no threat.
However, in a real life situation, it's very unlikely I would have walked past any snake without noticing it. (Just ask Loco.) I have an affection for all things herptile. Like that beautiful albino DB you posted. And if you happened to have a phobia about snakes, I'd do my best to help you get over it. (Again, just ask Loco, LOL) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 20, 2006 12:28 PM
Okay, change the scenario to a repulsive, deadly and clearly about to strike scorpion, and with just enough angle for a clear shot....and a tight choke.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 20, 2006 12:38 PM
"Okay, change the scenario to a repulsive, deadly and clearly about to strike scorpion, and with just enough angle for a clear shot....and a tight choke."
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It depends greatly on who the scorpion is aiming at.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted June 20, 2006 12:39 PM
I've never understood the need for snakeshot in a handgun. First, I've stepped on several rattlers over the years and I kicked a coiled one once thinking it was a cowpile. It was always faster and safer to move my foot than to draw a gun. I've killed several for the skin and the meat and it was a simple matter of pointing the muzzle at the snakes head from three feet away and settling the matter with a single lead bullet rather than loading up 1 to 6 shotshells that honestly will not kill a sparrow at ten feet from a handgun.
We used to buy 22 rimfire shotshells by the case in Mo. Pass shooting junebugs with a single six is right up there with sporting clays.
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted June 20, 2006 12:47 PM
LB, you're not going to believe this, but.....
I actually bring a half dozen large amber pill bottles with me whenever I go out. JUST in case I come across a cool spider, scorpion, centipede, rhino beetle, or whatever.
I guess I'm not a good subject for this discussion. I just don't have a fear of these little creepy crawlers.
[ June 20, 2006, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sue and Mark Nami
Knows what it's all about
Member # 685
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posted June 20, 2006 12:49 PM
Would it make a difference if you didn't have a hunting license when the dirty crime was committed? Ignorance allows for leaniency in many circumstances.
What if you went hunting quail and your 12 year old son shot a dove? That's a Federal crime.
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All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough
good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke..1729-1797
Posts: 44 | From: east coast | Registered: Jul 2005
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted June 20, 2006 01:32 PM
Carrying a loaded gun into the field without a hunting license? Hmmmmm, had to have been going to do some "target" shooting, right? I smell a loose cannon. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 20, 2006 02:30 PM
Ignorance is no excuse most of the time. When it comes to fish and Game laws, hang on to your butt my friends.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 20, 2006 02:34 PM
Come on Tom. Does it make any sense to carry an unloaded gun into the field? And riddle me this. How many times did you walk in the woods as a twelve year old without a hunting license, but with a 22.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 20, 2006 02:47 PM
Joe,
I know I'll be called a flip-flopper for this, but I don't recall having said that I would not break a law under any circumstances. If I did, I erred and that was not what I meant to say. And I take no offense at your inquiry. It's a perfectly valid question.
The scenario I submitted was, very simply, one in which you and another guy are out calling. Your "partner" gets bored, sees a hawk on a distant fencepost or pole and shoots it. In this scenario, the hawk posed no threat to you, your "partner" or anything or -one else. It was just sitting there and your "partner" simply demonstrated a sophomoric disregard for the bird and the rule of law that protects it.
In the scenario on this thread, it's a matter of life and/ or limb and the protection of the individual's welfare is easily and unarguably the priority at hand (but only because it's Tom and he kinda sorta agreed with me, but stopped short of committing. In any event, he came closer than anyone else. Then again, had he been bitten it would have been on the ass and since Cronk was the only other person there, someone would have to suck out the venom. If I'm willing to compromise my overly rigid principles to calm the masses, I think Rich oughtta be able to step up and bail NASA's bacon outta the fire. We wouldn't tell. Might sell the pictures or post them online, but never, ever tell.)
If I recall, I also said I had no problem with someone doing what was necessary to protect their personal property. In fact, I recall typing that several times. But, there are available options that fall within the law and proper protocol that produce the same results without doing something illegal.
Shooting a dove accidentally while quail hunting? In a seasoned hunter, such a mistake is less tolerable than it would be with a youngster just starting out. In that instance, a simple admonition by dad would be sufficient enough that he would carry the lesson learned well into adulthood. And no, the boy didn't make himself a felon. He made a mistake.
JoeF,
I know you're familiar with the term "totality of circumstances" and, contrary to what everyone else made me out to be as a result of what they interpreted in my initial post on that thread, I generally consider the totality of circumstances before making any final judgment. In my original scenario, the circumstances were clearly one in which the "partner" simply shot a hawk because he was bored or restless or whatever. It wasn't a careless mistake or misidentification. He didn't shoot at something else and the bullet traveled downrange and struck the hawk. He deliberately made the decision to aim, shoot and kill the hawk.
And while the subject is at hand, the rest of the variants I suggested on that thread were intentional just to see if it would make a difference to anyone. The first scenario centered around a hawk - federally protected non-game species causing no one grief and giving no one any reason to shoot because of damage or whatever. Just the wrong place at the wrong time. Deer and squirrels are game species, but the latter is typically a "big game animal" and generally offered greater respect and afforded higher ranking than a tree rat. No one zeroed on that which surprised me.
Non-game species like songbirds? No one ever thinks about shooting a sparrow or cardinal and God only knows how much most people hate bluejays, but do you know the penalty for shooting them under the Migratory Bird Act?
Long story less long - An animal causing damage that needs to be eliminated to resolve the problem or an animal threatening the well-being of another person are justifiable instances when lethal force can and should be used. No crime there. If time allows, work within the law. If not, do what you need to do.
Shooting an animal out of season or an animal that has full blanket protection as a non-game species simply because you're bored and have no regard for the law is just plain out of line.
I don't feel that thinking that way makes me a hard ass, but rather, someone that observes and respects the law and has found that he can live within those guidelines quite well. Seems to me that a lot of other guys got awfully bent out of shape over what they thought I meant when, all along, I was just laying down a scenario to feel out the scruples of people that post here. Let's say you're out with the same guy, he's driving, and he pulls up to a locked gate. He gets out to unlock the gate since you assume he has permission. At least, that's what you think he's doing until he reaches into the toolbox and pulls out a set of bolt cutters, cuts the lock, climbs back in and say how the landowner can go F himself 'cause he doesn't need no friggin' permission. At what point do you ask him to stop and get out of his truck?
Shooting non-game and game out of season and criminal trespassing are two pretty blatant examples that scream "slob hunter" at me, and I recall, as but a wee lad, being hauled to the Principal's office one morning - must have been in the first grade - because I got caught standing in a group of young boys laughing while one of our compadres drew some rather risque pictures on the blackboard. I can still remember that guy telling me that even though I didn't do the drawing, I stood there and didn't make any effort to walk away (at the very least) and better yet, stop the others from being a part of it. In doing so, I indirectly, but most certainly condoned the actions of those in the wrong and, in that sense, I shared the guilt with them.
I know the kind of writing you speak of, Joe. There are file cabinets full of case reports and run forms, many of which carry my signature from my SO and EMS days, and each of them represents me and my credibility in my absence, and forever will. But, the position I have with T&PC magazine is extremely important to me - moreso than those run forms. One indiscretion in the field - whether by me or by someone with whom I am hunting - may be all it takes to destroy my credibility as an outdoor writer and a sportsman and I simply will not risk over fifteen years of hard work in exchange for one moment of carelessness and poor judgment. I am very discreet about who I hunt with, as I am sure you were very careful about who you were associated with during your law enforcement days. IMO, no difference between the two. I get asked to go hunting by a lot of guys. Many of them don't get the chance because my background check on them reveals that they're well known by the game wardens in the area and not because of their hunting prowess. The old, "In God we trust - everyone else goes thru NCIC" routine. I know you've been there, done that.
Anyway, your question was a good one and very valid. I hope I answered it to your satisfaction. And, then some.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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