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Author
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Topic: in reguards to P.M. group hunting
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 25, 2007 01:37 PM
Well as soon as trucks, airplanes,snowmobiles, hounds and Amish buggies start buying predator calls, I'm going to start worrying. That's going to be some stiff competition from a calling standpoint.
EDIT: ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ January 25, 2007, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 25, 2007 02:29 PM
I've seen a lot of coyotes take off running at the sight of my truck. I've seen a lot of coyotes run right past my truck coming to the call.
I'm betting, that with rare exception, they weren't the same coyotes .
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 25, 2007 03:55 PM
That`s exactly right Dave, I`ve been in these discussions before & am still amazed at people who don`t think a coyote can be spooked or coyotes in a certain area wont change their behavior due to pressure, I`ve got a couple areas that I`ve seen many coyotes absolutely haul ass just from the sound of tires slowing down on the gravel a half mile away, not skidding, just merely slowing down. I`ve seen coyotes get up & haul ass at the very first sound from the caller, all these things have taken place in high pressure areas.
I believe 100% that Rich Higgins is correct when he says that some coyotes can`t be called & that isn`t natural, it`s a learned behavior & guess where they learned it.
Greenside, I`ve called coyotes in high pressure areas before, sure it`s possible, but why waste that much time & effort for such a small return if any.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 25, 2007 04:17 PM
Same thing here JD. Thats why I rarely call around THIS area. Atleast stalking, I get to make the game plan, insted of the coyotes. Most of the times, they win.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 25, 2007 05:22 PM
Also in this same area[virtually no ground cover]. In the last 3yrs, I called 7 coyotes.
One came towards me, stopped a tad over 100yrds.
One swung wide over 300yrds loping/looking my way.
One sit down & stared around 1/4 mile away.
One bolted hard out of a timber patch the opposite direction.
One stopped & stared around 700yrds away, then walked on the way it was going.
One came out of a timber patch towards me. Trying to pinpoint my location.
edit; Make that 7 coyotes. A couple days ago, I stalked & crawled to with 270yrds est. Coyote didn't know I was there. I lip-squeeked on/off for a minute. Then rabbit squalls with PEE-WEE. Coyote was indifferent & walked over the hill.
Not real productive, IMO.
Another reason, I shoot long.
[ January 25, 2007, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 25, 2007 05:58 PM
Quote: Greenside, I`ve called coyotes in high pressure areas before, sure it`s possible, but why waste that much time & effort for such a small return if any.
And that is why i hunt the way i do.
[ January 25, 2007, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5082 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 26, 2007 05:10 AM
There is no doubt that coyotes learn to be road shy and call shy due to pressure. As I said in an earlier post, we have alot of toothless, inbred idiots running the roads around here all winter long, claiming to be coyote hunting. Some drop hounds out to disguise the road hunting as some form of actual hunting, but its all shootin coyotes off the road.
Anyone that doesnt believe it, just come watch. If you see a coyote in the field, watch his reaction when you hit the brakes.
Tim, I got another question for you. Your in the pheasant protection business, you have already established that. What about hawks? You poof lots of them as well? They are big time pheasant and quail eaters. Probably moreso than coyotes. How do you stop that slaughter? You probably dont need too many of them flyin around up there either eh?
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 26, 2007 06:10 AM
Andy: Yes we do have some hawks and owls around and yes they prey on the pheasants. And no, i do not shoot them if they are preying on the pheasants.
Some where along the line some of you have misunder stood me, i hunt coyotes and fox for other reason besides protecting pheasants. I enjoy the red fox and coyote as much as others, but i love to hunt them or call them depending on where i'm at. We are not trying to rid the country side of them either. The fox population is makeing a comeback cause we chose not to hunt them in the last few years, the coyotes on the other hand are doing very well here. When i hunted coyotes here by myself i would take 30 to 50 a year, and the crew would take 100 plus a year. A few years back i got invited to hunt with this crew and have been doing it ever since. Now we take a total of 130 a year and we still leave plenty for seed. So it dose'nt matter which way i hunt we still get the same numbers and its also fun to beable to get together and hunt with others. I will also tell you that if the coyotes were callable then the population would be alot lower, but then again it seems the coyotes have adapted to the hunting pressure and there for have larger litters to take the place of the ones we got through the winter.
When we hunt coyotes we can see how they live and how they have learned to adapt, i consider myself lucky to be able to see this. Where alot of other callers live you can't see this. All they see is the coyote comeing to the call and how he reacts to it. I just got a phone call and i have to go hunting.. All take care...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5082 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted January 26, 2007 03:06 PM
Larger litters can take place it depends on prey base, coyote density, disease issues and weather as well.
This "den" issue well, I have a friend East of me that aierial hunts the same places each winter the coyotes have become used to this flying and will enter road culverts to escape danger, they have him on the ground to shoot those that enter road culverts as they simply won't leave them, this is done in areas of maintance for coyote supression.
I also in my area have ranchers that see coyotes laid up in the hay stacks in the winter, the high majority are real mangy and seek these places out for survival, not because it is their nature to do so and most coyotes won't enter a machine shed to lay up for awhile.
Dens and coyotes are for pup rearing and most are abonadoned by the 4th of July in that area anyways. They will run down holes and use cover in extreme weather and for survival ie: pressure applied in a quick instance, the majority will just slip away down a draw.
Pups when chased are squirrly buggers and will drop down the first hole they think they can fit, but after they get so big, while they will lay in close proximity to old dens they don't like to go back down in them.
I live in open harsh country and the winters can be tough but the high majority find it plumb fine to hang out in draws and cedar breaks and creek bottoms as opposed to trying to find holes to lay up in. So I wouldn't call anything outside of pup rearing a den as the majority won't use them on a even semi regular basis outside of this time and you know when you find a den a "true den" as the spokes of a wagon wheel and the paths beaten down to them.
They will move those pups on a whim when pressured even a little to a new local.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hawkeye
Knows what it's all about
Member # 216
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posted January 26, 2007 04:40 PM
Higgins did anyone from SAWC show up in Heber.
Posts: 71 | From: Tucson,AZ | Registered: Jul 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 26, 2007 04:40 PM
I think the "Den" issue is mostly about different interpretations for the same word. Some folks think a den is only someplace that an animal goes to live or raise it's young. I grew up with the interpretation that a den was any hole that an animal might crawl into for protection. A coon will den up in the engine compartment of a tractor when dogs are chasing him. He doesn't live there, but if he ran in there to hide, we called it a den.
It's kind of like the word Dinner. If I invited everyone here to come over Sunday for Dinner, some of you would show up at noon, while the rest wouldn't get here until sundown. Just depends on where you are from. Of course, if you were like those smartassed farm boys that I grew up with, you'd show up at noon, eat lunch, then hang around drinking all of my beer until supper time, just because I didn't specify which dinner, and you didn't want to miss out.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 26, 2007 04:56 PM
Hey Eddie.
No one from Tucson showed. Or from the White Mountain or Safford clubs.
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Hawkeye
Knows what it's all about
Member # 216
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posted January 26, 2007 04:59 PM
Thanks Rich I hunted we killed 2 only knew of 2 others hunting they killed 1 between them. I was afraid of the weather so we decided not to drive up.
Posts: 71 | From: Tucson,AZ | Registered: Jul 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 26, 2007 05:11 PM
Yeah Tim, invite us to dinner. We will do all the above and dent your humidor. LOL
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 26, 2007 05:16 PM
Don't do it Andy. He has mange, or flea's or----No, I mean Shingles.
Lord I apologize for that right up there and please be with the starving pygmies down there in Africa--Amen
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 26, 2007 07:55 PM
Hey Rich,
I'll have you know that I'm not the only one who's posted on this board today with that damned Herpes virus.
But I'll let the guilty speak up on their own. It's not like they can lay down to sleep with out thinking about it!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 27, 2007 05:30 AM
Well, Rich C.
It's kinda funny, here awhile back you offered to buy me a cup of coffee. Now from your last assessment of myself. I'm full of sh*t. Apparently times, do change.
Little ground rules over here. No doubt some of these conversations, would have a different outcome in person.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2007 06:47 AM
Tim Behle,
Sorry for making humor out of your Shingles deal. It is no laughing matter. I too know of someone else here who is suffering from it. I don't believe it is really a Herpes virus though. It is my understanding that each and every one of us who had chicken pox as a child, are in danger of developing Shingles. I had the chicken pox when I was a kid, so shingles virus is lying dormant in my body also. I guess there is a shot available at your doctor's office now which is supposed to prevent Shingles. My wife wants me to get one, but I am dragging my feet. Anyway, I hope that you are getting better quickly. Shingles sucks.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2007 06:50 AM
2dogs,
I was a bit harsh with you in that post, and I must apologize for that. The coffee offer still holds, and I will pay for your lunch also.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted January 27, 2007 06:53 AM
Peace
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 27, 2007 06:59 AM
Guilty? If this is punishment I must be guilty of something truly horrendous.
I attended my wife's step-father's funeral yesterday. I never noticed before that all who need consolation or try to console others hug the person next to them and rub their back. Even children.
I'm exhausted today from all of the back rubbing I received yesterday.
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 27, 2007 10:02 AM
Quote: "I believe 100% that Rich Higgins is correct when he says that some coyotes can`t be called & that isn`t natural, it`s a learned behavior & guess where they learned it."
There is not a coyote alive that cannot be called. It just takes the right sound, on the right day, in the right conditions, from the right location to make it happen.
There is certainly some coyotes that cannot be called with a conventional rabbit call but that isn't the only sound available.
The day that a coyote's interest is not perked by the sound of a dying rabbit or the sound of a howl will be the day that coyotes perish from the earth.
It's not just the calling, it's the calling with a unrealistic sounding rabbit, following the sound of vehicles coming from a source of danger, coming from the same spot that someone else called from. They put it all together. The next day they may run towards a pr. dog town where they heard a shot knowing that pieces of pr. dog wait their arrival.
Coyotes shy from a combination of sounds and events that spell danger, not just the wabbit scweam.
As far as coyote hunting from roads and walking them out, knock yourslelves out. If it's legal, it's fine.
As far as coyotes becoming educated, 70% of most coyote populations are young of the year and uneducated until they've been exposed to snowmobiles, calling, bird hunters, deer hunters, airplanes, etc. They are not born educated.
Every coyote has a different level of curiousity and a different level of caution to each circumstance depending on their previous circumstances. Too many guys try to paint with a broad brush and make the extreme become the norm.
~SH~
[ January 27, 2007, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 27, 2007 10:35 AM
quote:
It just takes the right sound, on the right day, in the right conditions, from the right location to make it happen.
Sound...maybe. Day, conditions, & location.....that would sound really good in a seminar or to someone who couldn`t separate good info from the obvious.
If a coyote in a certain area has learned behaviors that make him wise to a call, why would the day make any difference? did he forget what he learned the day before?
Conditions?
Location? Again...the obvious is overwhelming, we`re talking about high pressure areas, location, location, location. After he`s educated from a few different angles it won`t make a bit of difference.
I believe your wrong Scott, I didn`t say you don`t know your shit, I just believe your wrong & the funny thing about it is that neither one of us could absolutely prove it one way or the other.
Even if you could bring all of those elements together on a certain educated coyote......how could you prove it without electronic collars & purposely harrassing & educating a group of coyotes? Maybe you could get some funding for such a project, you could get TA to come & harrass them.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 27, 2007 10:37 AM
Scott: I have one mile square sections here and some a little bigger, can the coyotes be called out into the open or across the road into another section dureing the day? Any hints on what sounds i could try? Most sections here are bare except a creek with trees and thick brush running through the middle of section. I also have sections with CRP grass which cosists of a half section or as little as a 1/4 section.....
If i have to go to the center of the section to call them i could just as well jump shoot them or kick them to another shooter..
I'm not looking to just be able to call in a coyote, i'm looking for ways to increase my percentage of coyote kills by either calling or hunting. Any help would be appreciated...
Also how does youre schedule look for Feb. as far as takeing on a student... Tim A.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5082 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 27, 2007 11:00 AM
JD: I think Scott is right on as far as the right time or day goes. I was on a calling trip a few years ago and i had a ranch that i called on. There was a male coyote there and he was wise to the calling game. I tried to get him to come in but he would just stay behind the hill and bark, so i packed up and left...I came back a couple weeks later and tried calling again with some different sounds, he responded the same as last time, hid behind a hill and barked and howled..
I swithed to a new howler that i just bought a week before the hunt, and i started to bark and howl back at him. The coyote came out from behind the hill into the open, barking the whole time and scratching the ground with its hind legs. I got this coyote to stand still long enough for the shot and i got him. I found out i was onto something so i went to some other areas i new that had coyotes that i could not call in before. And the same was repeted two more times and i had two more coyotes to take home.
This year i went backout to the area i hunt and this time i was useing a cronk screemer i wanted to test. I started the stands with rabbit screems and then switched over to the screemer to bring them in. The right time, the right sound, the right conditions, from the right location. What Scott says has worked for me, there fore i believe Scott knows what he is talking about....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5082 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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