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Author
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Topic: Seasonal Protection for the Coyote
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 10:28 AM
He also said if they didn't, he would bring the bills back. They didn't die he withdrew them at F&G's request with the promise they would implement a night hunting program! I promise you the allowed night hunting will be a fiasco.
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted May 31, 2011 10:41 AM
quote:
allowed night hunting will be a fiasco
Dan we have night hunting here in PA on all public hunting land and privet land .
But before we did have night hunting with a light for predators the concerns they Have in AZ were the same they had here .
law was passed and now we hunt nights in PA and it didn't turn into a fiasco.
I have always thought punishing the good hunter for what bad guys my do is not right .
Bad slob hunters will be bad with or without laws
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 31, 2011 11:08 AM
quote:
I'll tell you what has changed, the economy. Now do you think for one second that all those wildlife dept employees are gonna find another job or do you think they might figure a way to pay their own salary?
Every state has seen the number of hunters declining every year. Coyote hunters are an increasing source of income. It won't take long to put 2 and 2 together.
We in okieland already have had a new "Heritage" tax put on us, "to promote the future of hunting".
Take a few years of high big game lease costs, $5.00 a gallon gas and watch the western states non resident tag income drop. Where are they gonna make up the difference?
Tom ; I agree the economy has changed and so has the DNR in my state.. The answer is yes some will have to go look elsewhere for work. Some of our wardens reached retirement and there job positions where not filled so now we have wardens covering twice the amount of ground and fewer of them...
The DNR is just like a business if they take a cut in funding then the commissioner has to figure out a way to make due with what they got including laying personnel off...
I'm not sure if we are seeing a loss in hunters but if we are I have'nt seen any major changes made because of it..
One thing I do know is the state of Mn. no longer requires a Non-Res. to buy two hunting lic. to hunt coyotes here in the state, I think for coyotes they just need a small game lic. or nothing at all, would have to check..
As to the last question For a western state to make up for loss in lic. sales they will just increase the non-res. lic. They have done it that way for years.. Non-Res have always been the ones to foot the bill so the western states can have there big-game herds...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 31, 2011 11:18 AM
Dan. Same here.. Our DNR had the same concerns thinking there would be an increase in poaching big-game. We got our nite law passed and no problems so far.. Our nite hunting with a light can only be done for two months and its done dureing mid winter when most of the deer have already dropped there big antlers..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted May 31, 2011 12:15 PM
quote:
As to the last question For a western state to make up for loss in lic. sales they will just increase the non-res. lic. They have done it that way for years.. Non-Res have always been the ones to foot the bill so the western states can have there big-game herds...
I feel the same way about this as you do with sharing your vast predator hunting knowledge Tim. Too bad! If you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 31, 2011 12:31 PM
LOL Jim..
I stopped hunting big game years ago, its alot cheaper to just go over to one of the game farms and buy a little meat and use whats left over in money for hunting coyotes which by the way are still free for the takeing except for Texas and a few other places. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 12:58 PM
Poachers are gonna poach, night hunting or no night hunting. Night hunting for predators just makes sense. If you want to take more animals, you have to be out when they are. In urban and suburban areas, that's mainly at night. We all know that. Anyone with an ounce of sanity and common sense knows this.
Spelling!!!
[ May 31, 2011, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 31, 2011 03:55 PM
Like him or not, Randy Buker was, to my understanding, solely responsible for getting night hunting in Minnesota and the arguments he used in swaying his legislators were what I tried to use in Kansas, to no avail.
Wardens in state that allow night hunting of predators will tell you that the poaching myth is just that - a myth. And, as a matter of fact, many of the arrests they make of deer poachers are the result of calls being made by legal, legitimate coyote hunters under the stars. Commissioners don't want to hear it. They've been sold a false bill of goods as to rhetoric and nothing - not even facts - will sway them. I went into my efforts to deliver night hunting to KS callers with a proposal to institute a season on coyotes at night from January 1 to February 28 (29), allowing for the use of artificial light from sunset to midnight and from 4 am to sunrise, where neither the caller, the shooter, the light or its power source could be attached to a motorized conveyance and that the caller and gunner had to be off public roadways and their immediate right of ways.
Despite all the research I did and corresponding with callers in states that allow night calling with AL, they couldn't get past the potential poaching issue, even though I had written comments from game wardens in CO, TX and NE refuting those myths.
I don't consider the issue dead, by any means, but for now, in KS, very few of our commissioners have any actual hands on experience as outdoorsmen and women. Most have been politically appointed as rungs on their professional ladders and they could care less about how their decisions impact the sportsmen and women of the state or the resources. All they want to do is sell access to the deer, turkeys and such and the guy with the most money to spend gets first shot, which means non-residents. The wildlife agency itself is desperately trying to protect, preserve and further the interests of those in the state who have built what we have, but they don't get listened to much these days. It's hard for the biologists to woo private landowners away from offers of free money and wealth being offered through tax breaks and entitlement programs using "agricultural tourism" dollars. Then, after a landowner has been on the state program for a couple years and managed to establish a nice network of habitat, the big dollar non-res money bags come to town, buy up the leases, and lock the gates. It is the future of hunting, whether you kill puppies or not.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 31, 2011 04:36 PM
quote:
with a proposal to institute a season on coyotes at night from January 1 to February 28 (29), allowing for the use of artificial light from sunset to midnight and from 4 am to sunrise, where neither the caller, the shooter, the light or its power source could be attached to a motorized conveyance and that the caller and gunner had to be off public roadways and their immediate right of ways.
Lance, why in the hell would you suggest restrictions like that? Sounds like something a control freak would dream up? None of that stuff is justified.
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31478 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted May 31, 2011 04:42 PM
Thats pretty much what our rules say with the eception that we can use the light all night long.. Could be improved on but you have to start somewhere.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 05:09 PM
That's pretty much what I don't want the rules in AZ to say. We'll see what they come up with, if its not suitable, we still have our law makers to fall back on.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 31, 2011 05:14 PM
That is actually my end point. I began the effort going for broke, all year long, no restrictions, but with a few exceptions, most states don't allow that. What you see there is after a few fallback positions, always prepared to come back with a new offer, if you will. What that is, is also a hybrid of what the various states I studied had -the best of all worlds. Don't forget that I'm dealing with a Commission who - after a dog was caught in a 220 conibear, set perfectly legal, as the result of a dumbass out walking his dog off leash in a leashes only area - considered the Draconian act of outlawing all conibears on public ground, regardless of the fact that the reason they are there is because THEY asked the Kansas Fur Harvesters Association to encourage their members to trap predators on public hunting ground after upland game seasons closed in an effort to control predator numbers leading into nesting season. These people see no gray area - it is black as hell or white as snow. It either is, or it isn't. if you're going to go in front of them, you always come in with your first request, and when they counter that with something stupid, you counter with something that appears to appease their ignorance, and back and forth you go until you (hopefully) end up with a solution that leaves them thinking they did their job better than ever before, and you have a workable provision for your people. One thing is for sure - they aren't going to just pat you on the back for a great idea and give you everything you want, especially when it involves killing stuff because they are completely beyond recalling that they are, in fact, in charge of the Dept. of Killing Stuff for Fun.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted May 31, 2011 05:18 PM
quote:
with a proposal to institute a season on coyotes at night from January 1 to February 28 (29), allowing for the use of artificial light from sunset to midnight and from 4 am to sunrise, where neither the caller, the shooter, the light or its power source could be attached to a motorized conveyance and that the caller and gunner had to be off public roadways and their immediate right of ways.
thats some funny shit right there ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
PS
i am cool with it if you add
you may only bring a lunch for night hunting on Tuesday and every other Thursday ,
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 31, 2011 05:19 PM
Actually, Dan, in Kansas, most laws involving coyotes are just that, laws, established statutorily by the legislature, as opposed to regulations set by the W&P Commission. When you can hunt them is, in fact, one of the few things coyote-related that the Commissioners address. At least, that's my understanding. My next push may very well involve working with my State Representative, but only after I schmooze the Kansas Livestock Ass'n, the Kansas Wool Grower's Association and other agricultural groups. There are other things that need to happen before I can make that push, though.
May be funny, George, but multiple attempts to institute a night hunting provision for coyotes in Kansas have failed, and those efforts have used a number of different approaches in the past. To actually make this happen will be a major coup, and right now, few, if any, of the other sporting roups in Kansas even support the effort. I look at it like trying to give up cigarettes. I'll probably have to make 5 or 6 good runs at it before I see appreciable results. That is, to me, a realistic position at this point in the game.
[ May 31, 2011, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 05:23 PM
I want 24/7/365 access to night hunting from a vehicle. Now, I just might settle for a little less. I figure the AZ G&F don't want to give much, so we should ask for the sky and not be willing to compromise much or we will settle for what they are willing to give up. They cut a deal because they didn't want to have to work within a new law that would limit their power to make the rules. They don't want night hunting in AZ and they will try their best to limit it to the point that it will not be worthwhile to even hunting at night. I have seen them in action and they are a sorry bunch of bureaucrats!!
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 05:57 PM
Arizona Game and Fish makes every effort to keep the general public in the dark about what will be discussed at a scheduled meeting. They do tell you when a meeting (well at least the scheduled ones) are going to take place. If I wanted to know when the night hunt discussion came about I couldn't find out until after it had taken place. I have zero faith in any justice from them.
http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/meeting_schedule.shtml
"The Game and Fish Commission is comprised of five members (serving staggered five-year terms) appointed by the Governor and confirmed by the Senate. No more than one commissioner may be from any one county. No more than three may be from the same political party."
How corrupt is that. Political favors at its best!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted May 31, 2011 06:08 PM
quote:
I want 24/7/365 access to night hunting from a vehicle
Sounds like fun.
We can only night hunt from Jan 1 thru March 15, by permit only, and hunting from vehicles is not permitted.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted May 31, 2011 06:39 PM
You are getting old and lazy, Dan.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 07:28 PM
Yes I am and also cranky.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 31, 2011 07:29 PM
Yeah Dan, and at your advanced age, you're prolly asleep by, what,.. 6?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted May 31, 2011 07:37 PM
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