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Author
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Topic: Coyote calling demographics
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 28, 2005 07:03 PM
Rich,
Sometimes even the good coyote callers get burned. Sometimes the prey gets down wind and smells the setup.
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted December 28, 2005 07:08 PM
Hey Scott, I heard CG have their own website, GO TALK TO THEM!!!!
I agree that Vic is a very nice guy with a ton of experience and knowledge. I could not think of a nicer guy to set around a campfire and chat with. Several of us did just that in November and I would love to do it again.
As far as videos and being original or ripping off others ideas, what do you expect? This aint rocket science and if you havent noticed there are certian things that work, and things that dont. Its pretty cut and dry. Not everyone that makes a video can have some brilliant idea that will change the way everyone views predator hunting. That has already been done years ago and you cant "reinvent the wheel" so to speak. just because I blow into the same end of a call as someone before me doesnt mean I cheated him out of something or stabbed him in the back.
I dont see your motives for even starting this whole thing up, but there is one I am sure. Maybe you just like to stir the pot or maybe there is a specific instance you are pertainting to. In any case, I dont really care, but you sure got this pot churning.
I dont know you, but I have heard your name brought up in some very nice conversations with respect and admiration. This tread is really contradictory to how I would expect you to conduct yourself.
Leonard, Sorry about the misting comment. I just threw that in there for good measure. Trying to lighten the mood a little. DIDNT WORK, by the way. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Byron, I dont think you have an EGO problem at all. You do smell funny though.
Todd
[ December 28, 2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Todd Woodall ]
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Texas Predator Pursuit videos
110 hunts on 2 DVD's
www.texaspredatorpursuit.com
Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted December 28, 2005 07:08 PM
Rich, are we supposed to be impressed?
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 28, 2005 07:18 PM
Joe, I'm not going to suggest that you are supposed to be anything at all. I did offer a little insight into motive, which Randy appears to have fathomed. Got your hackles up, didn't he?
Save a tree---- Eat a beaver
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 28, 2005 07:26 PM
Yup. He's feelin' better.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted December 28, 2005 07:29 PM
Maybe I missed something, because there has been alot to read here in short order and I may have completely missed something, but my understanding of what Wiley is trying to say is that the guys that have very little experience and little actual knowledge, but then gain some nugget of wisdom from a source that willingly or unknowingly gives it up, then said person immediately uses it as his own and profits from it, and is a flamboyant showboat concerning his new found knowledge in any medium such as print or video, is what Wileys irritation is. I really don't think it started off as insinuating that any of the experienced callers here were guilty parties. As far as I know, most of the guys here are die hards that have been at this for some time, and while they may have learned from others, they also have had enough experience in their own areas to know what works and what doesn't. After that, it was up to each person here to decide that maybe Wiley was pointing a finger at them, and some took that ball and ran with it. Myself, I didn't feel that he was talking about me in particular, so I wasn't insulted. I don't think he was refering to the video industry as a whole or the magazine industry, just the new guys that a year or two ago were probably making turkey videos or pornos or something and now all of the sudden they are predator "experts". Where were they 5 years ago? or 10? when predator hunting wasn't the "in" thing. I think that is what Wiley's hackles were up about. I have seen alot of coyote hunting experts in print and on film lately that I really don't think know squat about coyotes, but they can write well or look good on camera, so some camo company hires them and that supposidly MAKES them an expert. It kinda rubs me the wrong way also, but I'll include a disclaimer that as far as I know NONE of them post here.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted December 28, 2005 07:44 PM
Rich, I like your by-lines...
Cal, you have the benefit of reading the complete justification. I saw the original post and saw the storm comimg.
To Scott's original question:
I've seen the best marketing efforts of most fail. Calls gathering dust on shelves everywhere. The craze isn't taking root here.
That said with some qualification: I found out 12/27 that a guy called the farm next to me at daybreak on 12/25 and killed two coyotes and a fox. Two coyotes are not worth a stir, the fox is noteworthy. The good news is that he's an old hand like the some of "you guys". The even better news is that nobody else can call there. Everybody else has to struggle for access to hunt and I don't see the predator craze taking hold.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 28, 2005 07:49 PM
RB: "Sometimes even the good coyote callers get burned. Sometimes the prey gets down wind and smells the setup."
Most of the good coyote callers I know don't let the coyotes get down wind and smell the setup.
TW: "This tread is really contradictory to how I would expect you to conduct yourself."
How could you have any expectations of me if you don't even know me?
Perhaps it's abnormal behavior for me not to care what others think about me for taking a stand on an issue but I honestly don't care. If everyone on this site lined up to chastise me for picking on the coyote calling prostitutes I wouldn't care. I don't care for inexperienced fast buck artists or coyote calling prostitutes that sell other's knowledge and hard work and that's just the way it is. I don't care how you think I should conduct myself.
~SH~
[ December 28, 2005, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Byron South
Knows what it's all about
Member # 213
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posted December 28, 2005 08:11 PM
Todd,
That funny smell is Byron's mystery mix. (this will make me rich and famous I'm sure of it) If you promise not tell anyone and for God sake don't prositute it on your damn videos I'll tell you what it is. Listeen close. I mix hot lead and burning gun powder, I then spray it out the barrel of my machine gun. The secret to this formula is that it works equally as well upwind as well as down wind. You should see what it does to a crack house. Luv that smell.
Now thats funny I don't care who you are. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Byron
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"Coming to the Call" predator hunting videos. Volumes I, II, III and IV. Order two or more and pay no S&H www.comingtothecall.com
Posts: 313 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2003
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keekee
Knows what it's all about
Member # 465
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posted December 28, 2005 08:39 PM
WOW! Very interesting read! Sure made the shit hit the fan! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Very good read though!
Brent
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Kee's Custom Calls
http://www.keescalls.com
Posts: 295 | From: Southern Ohio | Registered: Dec 2004
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted December 28, 2005 08:39 PM
Byron, you are too much... I was figuring to read something about mixing some sheep urine with Leonards's majic mist to come up a new hunting deodarant...
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 28, 2005 08:57 PM
....yeah, me too
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 28, 2005 09:03 PM
For those that have not been around forever. Wiley E and Rich Higgins used to be at each other's throats over snotty remarks on the Internet. Now, they are in love.
Same with Higgins and Vic Carlson. Same story, now they best of friends. Actually, same as with ME and Vic. But, not no more.
Why? Because you get over the petty $hit and realize that the other guy )actually) is speaking the same language.
Therefore. I expect that Buker and Byron and Huber will turn out to be bossom buddies, in the not to distant future. Count on it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 28, 2005 09:10 PM
Speaking of Sheep Leonard... What happened to those two sheep at your camp? Where'd they go?
A word of caution. If you ever hunt with Higgins please make sure you are NOT downwind when he checks the wind direction. Trust me on this tidbit of knowledge. You can pass it on free of charge too.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 28, 2005 09:21 PM
Jay, I have no idea, but the only person I have heard bring it up, like three, maybe four(?) times, is you. Last I saw, she was sleeping in your tent. All I can tell you is I'm totally innocent. I guess somebody scored a nice souvenir? Get over it, Anna doesn't love you any more.
But, did we frisk the Texans, I don't recall?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 28, 2005 09:26 PM
Scott,
If you email me your mailing address, I will send you my newest predator video coming out in about 10 days. I'm pretty sure you've never seen anything like it.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted December 28, 2005 09:36 PM
Alright Leonard, Your right lets all have a group hug. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Ahhhh, thats nice, SHEW who smells like piss.
Byron, you just make sure to keep that Machine Gun of yours pointed in the other direction. I dont see how you hit anything with that light barrel anyway. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Todd
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Texas Predator Pursuit videos
110 hunts on 2 DVD's
www.texaspredatorpursuit.com
Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 29, 2005 03:49 AM
Leonard: "Wiley E and Rich Higgins used to be at each other's throats over snotty remarks on the Internet. Now, they are in love."
Hahaha! In love????? Try "have developed a mutual respect".
Here's the Huber version of a typical Higgins/Huber conversation (paraphrasing):
Higgins: "Did you know Dirty Johnny shot a 50 lb. coyote in Tenbucktwo".
Huber: "The biggest coyotes around this area top out at about 40 pounds but most large coyotes run in the 30 - 35 pound category. Upstate NY has a lot of 50 pound coyotes."
Higgins: "Yes, in the Western part of the state they have a red wolf subspecies of Canis Latrans Mesidus Lupus Hectus Steroidis Largis"
Huber: ".................."
Higgins: "Hello?"
Huber: "Yeh, I'm still here. I'm not so sure I believe all the coyote subspecies research. It seems to have merit to some based on the fact that it is difficult to disprove. Remember researchers were trying to convince the public that sasquatch existed based on the infamous photo we all know now was a hoax"
Higgins: "............"
Huber: "Hello?"
Higgins: "Yeh, I'm still here"
Hahaha! I'll bet Higgins has a different version.
You see Leonard, neither of us have changed much we have just learned to tolerate eachother. LOL! I respect Rich as a passionate student of coyote behavior but I have taken coyote behavioral study in a different direction than he has. I still can't relate to calling up coyotes and filming them as they blink at me and tilt their heads but I have to admit that I don't learn anything about their behavior after they are dead other than watching their tail wag a few times. Nor do I relate to the taxonomy of subspecies or the alpha beta gama rho vocabulary of those conducting many of the studies that are based on their difficulty to disprove as opposed to solid supporting evidence.
What I like about Rich is that I have the confidence in him that he respects me enough not to prostitute anything I have told him in confidentiality.
One thing I find quite common among veteran callers is a very low tolerance for this arrogant unappreciative attitude by the "flash in the pans" who think 35+ years of coyote calling tips are owed them for their own commercialization. It's obvious Leonard and Ronnie have the same opinion but then they are on the giving end of the equation.
~SH~
[ December 29, 2005, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted December 29, 2005 04:34 AM
You made my point Scott, I think?
Tim I assumed what Scott and Ronnie were talking about was the NEW rising stars in the industry show boating old knowledge to the NEW generation of beginners and taking full credit for what they know. Still not sure, Scott lost me somewhere between Bob Knob and Sam somebody? LOL
Craig has already gone through that stage under similar circumstances so I tried to liken the two situations with my quotes. Because I am laid up with a bad knee and have nothing better to do I will expand on the subject. LOL Better put on a pot of coffee and not the unleaded stuff either! LOL
You said, “When I think of who might be a whore to the sport of trapping, Craig is at the top of my list.”
Well he does go out of his way to give credit to his mentors and teachers. His record speaks for itself. By now he probably has one million trap line miles behind him. He was a founder of the Nebraska Fur Harvesters Association and his other credentials and contributions to trapping are too numerous to list here. If anyone has a right to capitalize on the sport or profession of trapping (not that a right is needed) Craig is probably the one. He makes his living PRIVATELY by trapping and selling lure and instructions. Given his reputation as a coyote trapper and his long list of accomplishments and acquaintances it is probably not by accident that his bate is the best you have ever tried.
I don't know Craig personally, I met him once and he is arrogant but that is not the issue. He gives credit where credit is due. He made mention of all the men that taught him and gave them credit for shaping him into who he is today. He readily admits that a good portion of the students who come to him for instruction come because of who has trained him. Why did Scott see him? Why did Cal? Why did most of the other big number men in the country go to him for instruction? Didn't Marty Senneker come to him despite having a 600 + coyote fur season under his belt? His personality or his ego had nothing to do with it. It is because of what he offers. I doubt very much that if guys of the caliber of Scott, Cal and Marty are going to him he is not the blowhard and liar you assume he is. Scott and I had a lengthy conversation about Craig but in the end he still recommend him to me if I were ever too decided to get into trapping. That tells me something.
With out picking apart everything the man has said or done in the past or what he says his instructors have done (Vern Dorn in particular) we have to allow a little leeway for marketing because everyone is guilty of some degree of embellishment. It is just like people quoting how many “years” of experience they have at calling or trapping coyotes. Years means shit compared to #s if you ask me. You could suck at calling all your life but if you have had a 100+ coyote FUR season and more importantly you can PROVE it you will have me sitting up strait. Years of experience is used far and wide in advertising of all shapes and forms but is of little value unless you know what that person has accomplished in those years.
Now to steer back to the point. Cal said…..
quote:
I don't think he was refering to the video industry as a whole or the magazine industry, just the new guys that a year or two ago were probably making turkey videos or pornos or something and now all of the sudden they are predator "experts". Where were they 5 years ago? or 10? when predator hunting wasn't the "in" thing. I think that is what Wiley's hackles were up about. I have seen alot of coyote hunting experts in print and on film lately that I really don't think know squat about coyotes, but they can write well or look good on camera, so some camo company hires them and that supposidly MAKES them an expert. It kinda rubs me the wrong way also, but I'll include a disclaimer that as far as I know NONE of them post here.
O’Gorman voiced the same concerns when the fur boom came on strong. Where were these guys 5 years ago? Where were they 10 years ago? He asks almost verbatim. In 1979 people were buying up any kind of trap or lure they could get their hands on. Fur was gold and knowledge was golden. Look at the 1977 to 1987 Trapper magazines. . There were experts springing up everywhere selling their snake oil trying to capitalize on the new fur fad. Compare those magazines to last month’s edition. Most of the guys are long gone and forgotten now. Their paper images couldn’t stand the test of time.
Injinjoes comment caught my eye when he said…..
quote:
Let's be honest. It only takes a couple minutes talking to someone to absolutely know if he is blowing smoke up your pipes. Sure he can be repeating truisms and bits and pieces of things he's read or watched on TV and I don't really have any problem with that. The real trouble lies when I see other dumb SOB's starting to believe in a false idol when the experience isn't really there.
That is exactly true Joe! But it gets harder all the time to figure out who really has experience and who doesn’t. The Internet has so much information and the posts flow like water. Some people’s reputations are based almost completely on what they have sponged off of others. A couple of guys I know of have become true masters of the art of plagiarism. They fashion all the information they have accumulated in a fluent seamless language. I have been on the net for a while now as most of you have so I know you have seen the same people blossom into instant experts. LOL
The funny thing is that it doesn’t really matter. If what they are saying is right then who cares. It does rub me wrong when I see the leg humpers flock to these kinds of people not knowing them for who they truly are.
Maybe this is Scott’s beef? He may see the frauds like I described in other formats plagiarizing true experts in some way shape or form and making money off of it? No one likes a fraud.
It may not be as easy to tell a fraud from the real McCoy as it once was but every poker player has a tell. LOL
History repeats its self.
Today calling is the fad and we are getting the same reaction from the sellers and buyers as we got in the late 70s and early 80s of the fur boom.
This phenomenon is not only in the hunting industry. All that has been said is really a moot point because that is just Capitalism baby! LOL. If there is a market people will try to cash in on it. Bill Gates didn't invent the damn computer. He strong-armed his way into the industry and made a lot of money doing so. You don't see him thanking Apple and IBM for their contributions to his successes or anyone else he stepped on in the process.
Not to get off topic but I just had a revelation!!! I think I know now why Scott is pissed off at the world and doesn’t care what anybody thinks!! NO, it isn't about Byron or anyone else that flattered themselves by believing he was addressing them personally. It is because one of his closest and dearest personal friends has his own TV show now and didn't take him along for the ride. I think the first show airs in January? LOL Just kidding Scott take a pill. LOL
My take on it is that I can't bitch about or be envious of anyone else’s success in this industry because there is no reason why I can't be doing the same thing myself. This is America the land of the free. LOL
I don’t have an ax to grind with any of the new guys out there that have made videos or other products and am proud to call some of them my friends. I hope that history doesn’t see them as “flash in the pans.” because some day I might join the ranks of the prostitutes my self. If you can’t beat em join em right?
Last year I personally shot 100 coyotes in less than 30 consecutive days and was in on a number of additional kills that a couple of partners shot on hunts that I hosted. All of it is documented on PM and still stands. Because of this and other accomplishments and experiences I have had there is probably a market in this game for me also. So far I have handed it out for free. Knowledge is only part of what it takes to be good at killing coyotes but I am not convinced that it is the knowledge that ***** . Most people say they fast forward through the “boring” instructional parts anyway. LOL Go figure.
To me calling info is like advertising puppies in the paper. If you start the add with “to give away to good home” you just lost out. If you sell the same puppies people will buy them because you have put a value on them so they must be worth it right?
OK, that is probably a bad analogy but my point is that the money in the packaging and advertising. For example only, if some one wanted to find out what I think about a particular subject about coyote hunting all they would have to do is search the archives on this sight, PM or the Coyote Gods. Or just ask for that matter. Yet if I wrote a book about it there would be people that would buy it despite the fact that they could get all the info here for free. It is the same with the video crowd. Byron will help anyone who asks. So would Todd or Jay or who ever else for free.
Entertainment, it seams like, is what people want. People like to spend money on stuff they enjoy whether they employ it or not. The net is saturated with people that have spent a small fortune on calls, DVDs, Cammo and decoys. Most of which will only shoot a hand full of coyotes a year.
Grandiloquently speaking, I would hope to assume that the latter at least partially entertains Scott’s original question pertaining to coyote demographics and its like.
I am not worried or concerned about coyote populations being affected by new callers at all. What does bother me is losing ground or being denied access to ground for coyote contest. There is a contest hunt dang near every weekend within an hour and a half of my house through the winter months it seams. The second thing that annoys me is the increased caller keeping the coyotes tuned up. I really think that all the new wave of e-callers has done has allowed callers to educate coyotes at a higher rate and keep them that way.
Yes, I do believe that coyotes can be educated or “conditioned” to calls of any kind. Paranoid coyotes stick to there own routine. Yes Jay, they probably do forget but it might take them 6 months to do so. LOL
Well I better go ice my knee again.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 29, 2005 04:38 AM
Wow. Now I finally understand where that "Pampas Ass" thing came from.
Scott, you are a piece of work.
'nuff said.
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 29, 2005 05:16 AM
Q,
You bring up some good points. Especially about the killing part, LOL!. Thats a [Gray] area fur me @ times
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 29, 2005 05:32 AM
Randy: "Scott, you are a piece of work."
Randy for some strange reason you still seem to think I should care what your opinion of me is or that other's need to know what your opinion of me is. Again, I don't care what your opinion of me is and I doubt anyone else does either so I hope you can get over it!
If you are the "less experienced" coyote caller selling the knowledge of the "more experienced" coyote caller for your own financial gain and notoriety without giving credit to those who have taught you out of personal respect for them, then you are a prostitute. If you are not in this category, why would you be concerned about my opinion particularly after suggesting that you didn't care what my opinion was? LOL! Take a position and stick with it Randy. Nuff said?
Same goes for Byron South.
Let your consciences be your guides but I'm not apologizing for anything I have stated or my reasoning behind it.
You are right about one thing Randy, I don't have the best tact and I'm not a people person but I don't really care either. My priorities lie within my constant self improvement to be a better coyote hunter/trapper.
Leonard gave me the benefit of the doubt and asked what I meant while you run off on an insecurity tangent. That says a lot about each of you.
What's more important Randy, what I meant or what you think I meant?
Joe F: "Wiley/Scott, go back to your original unqualified statement #2 in your original post and ask yourself why ANY person who had ever made a video would be offended.
Your subsequent posts have qualified that some, but the opening shot was there. Gerald, Byron, or anybody that has made a video could look at that and take offense.
As a casual observer with no dog in this fight it reads that anyone who ever made a video is a prostitute. Period. It's there in black and white.
You're really not setting on the higher ground that you'd like to claim now.
Blame it on the fragileness of the medium, that may not be what you meant, but it is there."
Fair enough Joe! Since you don't have a dog in this fight and can look at the entire issue objectively, allow me to rephrase my original statement to better explain exactly what I meant.
2. Exposure to coyote calling information via video and CD (prostitution of the sport).
Better wording would have been:
2. Exposure to coyote calling information via video and CD which would includes videos and CD's by inexperienced "fast buck artists" prostituting the knowledge that was taught to them by more experienced callers for their own notoriety and financial gain.
SH: "A lot of this is also due to the prostitution of coyote calling on videos and CDs."
Better wording would have been:
A lot of this is also due to the prostitution of coyote calling knowledge that was gained from more experienced callers and sold by less experienced callers for their own financial gain and notoriety.
Does that help clarify?
If this wording and my explanations still offend a few fragile egos on this forum then there must be a reason.
I make no apologies for my position and as anyone can plainly see, there is a common understanding amongst the more experienced callers of what has transpired in this fraternity. If this thread helps someone to stop and think about showing a little respect for the knowledge they have gained, then I'll gladly ruffle a few feathers and take the heat for the betterment of this sport.
Q,
I agree with your analogy of CO but I still do not agree with the quote he made for the reasons I mentioned.
Q: "Not to get off topic but I just had a revelation!!! I think I know now why Scott is pissed off at the world and doesn’t care what anybody thinks!! NO, it isn't about Byron or anyone else that flattered themselves by believing he was addressing them personally. It is because one of his closest and dearest personal friends has his own TV show now and didn't take him along for the ride. I think the first show airs in January? LOL Just kidding Scott take a pill. LOL"
Hahaha! Funny guy!
Yeh, me and ESPN TM go waaaaaaaaaay back too don't we? Hey, more power to him. One thing I have to say about TM though is that he felt just uncomfortable enough about prostituting other's hard work and knowledge on video that he felt an obligation to give them the credit. Still didn't sit well with the men who taught him because TM didn't have the experience to back the techniques he was selling.
Like I said Q, if I wanted to go down the commercialization road I had many chances. Someday I may sell a book or do another video with someone that gives me editing privelages but it will be when the men I teach will not be competing against the men who taught me.
You are right about experience too. Vic and I discussed that very issue. If you've called coyotes for 35 years and haven't improved much from when you started, that 35 years means nothing. If you only went out once or twice a year in 35 years, that doesn't tell you anything either.
In the same token, numbers are only relevant if you understand the availability of numbers from one area to the next. Sheep production areas are not known for large coyote populations.
I'll take a man who can kill "the coyote" over a man who kills "a coyote" any day.
~SH~
[ December 29, 2005, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 29, 2005 05:47 AM
Byron,
If your coffee cup is missing, go look at Q's house. I think he's been drinking out of it.
Quinton,
Like I said, I hope I am wrong about Craig. But that was my first impression of him, and I've never had any reason to change it. The first few years that I was hearing of him, he sounded like the Mohamed Ali of the trapping world. I never did like Ali due to his mouth either.
I won't deny he does a lot of good for trapping associations. He gives a lot back to the industry. But something about him just rubs me wrong, and I can't help but feel that he got where he is today by spending someone else's money.
[ December 29, 2005, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted December 29, 2005 06:28 AM
This just in!! Rob somebody Mitch Huggins and son Skyler Huggins shot 13 coyotes by 1:00!!!
Mitch please tell!
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 29, 2005 06:35 AM
Scott,
You said: What's more important Randy, what I meant or what you think I meant?
And then you later went on to say: Fair enough Joe! Since you don't have a dog in this fight and can look at the entire issue objectively, allow me to rephrase my original statement to better explain exactly what I meant . Better wording would have been: 2. Exposure to coyote calling information via video and CD which would includes videos and CD's by inexperienced "fast buck artists" prostituting the knowledge that was taught to them by more experienced callers for their own notoriety and financial gain.
See? Why in the hell didn't you say so in the first place? You spew forth a bunch of antagonistic garbage apparently meant to stir shit and then when you are confronted you backpeddle and "clarify" yourself to come off as less confrontational.
you obviously feel that some didn't give YOU credit that you thought was due. Get over it and move on. If, as you say, all you care about is becoming a better coyote hunter, then all you have to do get out and hunt, buy a few videos to help you learn a tip or two and enjoy. Life's too short to harbor such a bad attitude.
(Oh, yeah, I know you don't care what my opinion is so I assume you'll not even respond back to this post.)
[ December 29, 2005, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Randy Buker ]
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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