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Author
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Topic: in reguards to P.M. group hunting
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 27, 2007 11:24 AM
Cripes, TA. Scott can't find a hat to fit him as it is!
But, anyway. Essentially, he's right on that issue. There are an infinate number of solutions, time of day, atmospheric conditions, the location of the call and the location of the coyote (ie: comfort zone) We know this stuff. Some days, some coyotes are uncallable using what you use, from where you are located. I have moved 100 yards and called difficult coyotes that romp in, without a care in the world.
Diminishing returns plays a part. Sometimes it's just not worth the effort, sometimes, you don't have anything better to do, at the moment. I remember one time I knew that I had a pair barking at me from behind brush and I had turned the sound all the way down on the remote caller while I was searching for a particular hand call in my gear. I straightened up just in time to see them both run into the speaker and one of them put his nose in it. Apparently, what I thought was all the way off, was an enticement?
But, I have done this sort of thing at night many times. Take a tree branch and slap it around, snapping and breaking twigs, sometimes I kick some gravel or make scratching noises with my fingers, rub two rocks together. You would be supprised at what triggers a response from a cautious coyote. As I said, the combinations are limitless.
Even blowing my nose, I have had spooky coyotes that I couldn't locate suddenly light up like a pair of searchlights. But, just because it worked once doesn't mean you have found the Holy Grail.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31495 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted January 27, 2007 11:29 AM
TA17 you hit on something when you stated" If I have to go to the center of the section", well alot of times thats is where those coyotes are going to be. Scott pointed out to try and call coyotes from within 1/4 mile or a little more from a road on pressured coyotes would proove out to not be benefical or yield good results.
When pressured some of the best areas are going to be in the middle of larger land tracts with little intrusion and areas that provide them cover as well.Alot of walking and setting up deeper in the areas less travled will find more coyotes for sure in pressured areas.
Scott knows coyote calling for sure.
[ January 27, 2007, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 27, 2007 11:51 AM
LOL Leonard. I hear that they have ten gal hats in texas. If i ever get a coyote to come in i'll send off and get one for Scott. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I do not know Scott very well but i do call in some of the same areas as him and alot of what Scott says makes sense to me from my own exsperiances.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5089 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2007 02:00 PM
TA17Rem,
Instead of trying to call those highly pressured coyotes during mid day, I suggest being on your chosen stand real early in the morning while it is still dark. When it gets light enough for you to see fifty yards or so, it is time to give them a non agressive Lone howl. Coyote eyes are still adjusting at that time, and they think it is still dark. Wait in silence for two or three minutes and then get clear out to reed tip on that Cronk "screamer" and hit em with some very high pitched screams. I think you may be surprised at the results. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2007 02:13 PM
TA, I can't type very fast, so I give shorter answers. When calling at first light, the way I described above, coyotes will often cross those wide open fields and come to a call. For this reason, you can set up on a hillside where you are looking down on a brushy creek bottom that you know coyotes love to hunt. Call toward the creek bottom.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 27, 2007 03:03 PM
I never said that changing up a little wouldn`t produce in hard hit areas although Leonard summed it up nicely with his diminishing returns comment.
I`ve got a whole list of quirky little tricks for tough coyotes, that`s not my point, Scott said ANY coyote can be called, I say nay. I`m not trying to prove that I know more than he does or say that he isn`t credible I just don`t believe him on this point & I`m sure he could give 2 shits what I think but I won`t roll over & piss myself because he said this or that with no hard evidence to back it up.
I have no quantifiable evidence either, it`s just what I believe from experience, I could give all sorts of examples of this or that happening on stand but there is no absolute proof one way or the other, I didn`t make the statement to see who would shove their noses up Scotts ass or who would jump on his back I just simply stated what I believe about SOME coyotes.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted January 27, 2007 03:14 PM
Rich,
I don't mind you laughing, hell I do all of the time. People can't help but to stare at my scars, when they finally get the nerve to ask what happened, I just reply "It's from Herpes" and watch their reactions!
Shingles is caused by the Herpes Zoster virus, one of 8 types of herpes virus infecting most humans, and lying dormant in nearly everyone of us. It is most commonly triggered by stress, and the older we get, the more likely it is to become triggered.
There is a vaccine, the down side is that Doctors won't give it to you until you are 60. Listen to your wife, go get the shot!
Mine was across the left side of my head, I got it barely in one eye, and was lucky to regain my vision. The bad side for me, is that I still can't wear a hat for more than a few minutes before the scars start aching. I've always worn a cowboy hat, I found one I really loved a few years ago, but now it just sits on the rack gathering dust. I just bought a hat stretcher the other day, I'm hoping that if I keep steaming and stretching it, I can once again start wearing it.
Don't worry about the pain and irritation that shingles will cause. Think about how much your life would change if you got shingles in your eye, and didn't regain your vision. How much more incentive do you need to go and get the vaccine?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 27, 2007 05:08 PM
Tim Behle,
Thanks for the good advice. Now about that hat stretcher--Would you consider loaning it to Wiley E. ?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 27, 2007 05:36 PM
Tim I didnt know you were strugglin with that again. Hate to hear it buddy.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 27, 2007 08:02 PM
JD,
I appreciate the fact that you think for yourself. Seriously! Independent thinking seems to be a rare commodity at times.
Let's engage in civil debate shall we?
JD: "Sound...maybe. Day, conditions, & location.....that would sound really good in a seminar or to someone who couldn`t separate good info from the obvious."
Hahaha! Fair enough!
I'll say it again, I do not believe there is a coyote alive that I can't call by eventually finding the right combination of sound, day, conditions, and location. I repeat, COMBINATION OF....
Granted, sometimes it's very difficult to come up with the right combination but I haven't found a coyote yet that I couldn't eventually call and kill.
JD: "If a coyote in a certain area has learned behaviors that make him wise to a call, why would the day make any difference? did he forget what he learned the day before?"
If you have called coyotes for any amount of years, you have to realize that the days are not the same. There is some days that you cannot buy a coyote and there is some days where you can't seem to do anything wrong. Those same "can't do anything wrong" days will also create a different reaction in educated coyotes as well.
I have literally crawled up on coyotes that were bedded down and blew the best distress calls I could muster and they would pick their heads up and then go back to sleeping. That wasn't a call shy coyote, that was probably a coyote that spent the night running his ass off. I don't care what sound you blow, there is simply days when you won't call a percentage of the coyotes no matter what you do. Educated coyotes have those same days as well.
JD: "Conditions?"
You bet conditions. If you happen to hit that educated coyote just before a major weather system hits, his reaction could be totally different than a normal day.
JD: "Location? Again...the obvious is overwhelming, we`re talking about high pressure areas, location, location, location. After he`s educated from a few different angles it won`t make a bit of difference."
You are correct that location, in and of itself, will not alter your success IF EVERY LOCATION HAS BEEN TRIED and all other things stay the same.
JD: "I believe your wrong Scott, I didn`t say you don`t know your shit, I just believe your wrong & the funny thing about it is that neither one of us could absolutely prove it one way or the other."
Well JD, all I can tell you is that I have not found a coyote that I couldn't call and kill eventually by finding the right combination of sound, location, and circumstances.
I've watched coyotes sit and warning bark at me using traditional methods when I wasn't planning on educated coyotes. There was no way those coyote saw me or heard me. All they heard was a distress call that sounded too much like a previous bad experience. After allowing those coyotes to "cool down", I would slip in from a different direction with a different sound and had them practically run me over.
JD: "Even if you could bring all of those elements together on a certain educated coyote......how could you prove it without electronic collars & purposely harrassing & educating a group of coyotes? Maybe you could get some funding for such a project, you could get TA to come & harrass them."
I've been at this year round for a long long time. I've been able to watch the reaction of many coyotes to the wrong combination of location and sound. Can I break out each variable in each situation and credit success to a certain variable? Of course not but I know what combination didn't work and I know what combination did work.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 27, 2007 08:21 PM
TA 17Rem: "I have one mile square sections here and some a little bigger, can the coyotes be called out into the open or across the road into another section dureing the day?"
That's a loaded question that depends on the amount of hunting pressure in your specific area. No way I can answer that without knowing the variables you are faced with.
A much better approach would be to locate them specifically by glassing or getting them to howl then slipping in on them unseen and try calling them without too much volume.
TA 17 Rem: "Any hints on what sounds i could try?"
If you believe they have heard the traditional "wabbit scweams", try a bird distress or the kiss of death on your hand.
TA 17 Rem: "Most sections here are bare except a creek with trees and thick brush running through the middle of section. I also have sections with CRP grass which cosists of a half section or as little as a 1/4 section....."
Amazingly, some of those places are dynamite calling places because most coyote hunters are looking for the huge coyote country expanses. In situations like that, you know right where those coyotes will be which is generally as far as they can get from each road that surrounds them or in the thickest cover which may be near the road.
If they've been called, use the buddy system and go in there upwind with the traditional setup and let them run to your silent sniping buddy who is directly downwind. It's like trapping a digger coyote by exposing the trap that was dug slightly and burying a clean trap in front of it.
TA 17 REM: "If i have to go to the center of the section to call them i could just as well jump shoot them or kick them to another shooter.."
Exactly! I have as much fun doing that as I do calling them. Nothing funner than having an unsuspecting coyote running towards you looking over their shoulder at your partner.
TA 17 Rem: "I'm not looking to just be able to call in a coyote, i'm looking for ways to increase my percentage of coyote kills by either calling or hunting. Any help would be appreciated..."
Try the buddy system. One guy approaches them upwind from the vehicle while the other guy posts down wind where he was dropped off on the go. Let the games begin.
TA 17 Rem: "Also how does youre schedule look for Feb. as far as takeing on a student... Tim A."
Looks good!
We'll talk via email.
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 29, 2007 06:52 AM
I was anticipating a more brutal public flogging?
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 29, 2007 07:40 AM
Greenside,
I think 40 lashes with a wet noodle would be appropriate.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 29, 2007 07:46 AM
Crawl back in your hole Dennis.
Scott, I appreciate your response, very thourough as usual. I do agree that it, is/should be, possible in theory but I still say that the average or even above average caller won`t be able to hit that magic combination on some coyotes, ever.
Maybe you really can call any coyote alive, I don`t know but I`m somewhat curious, maybe I should make a trip to Kadoka for some much needed tutelage.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 29, 2007 08:32 AM
Dennis rests smugly in his den, comptemplating on who to blame the next time he walks out of a stand empty handed... Hmmmm
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted January 29, 2007 01:56 PM
Road hunters, of course.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 29, 2007 02:20 PM
JD,
Did you realize that you can call Iowa coyotes right across an open field, no matter how many trucks have chased it? I mean on a regular basis now JD, no amount of hunting pressure or other human activity has any effect. I read it on the internet, so I know this to be true.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 29, 2007 05:33 PM
Rich,
Wow, those Iowa coyotes must be tough.Really hard to call,know where all the trucks are,and when you do happen to call one in, you need a .25 caliber deer rifle to put em down.lol ![[Wink]](wink.gif) I think I'll stick with our stupid western coyotes that drop like a rock when shot with my .204.lol Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 29, 2007 06:13 PM
UTcaller,
Sometimes I doubt that I will ever be lucky enough to get back out west where there are lots of coyotes and very few people. I am walking every day, and hoping that one day I can get out for a REAL coyote safari once more. It is likely only fond memories now. I have been there and done that. My attempts to pass on what I have learned falls on deaf ears, which is too bad I think. Sure I come on to these boards and poke a little fun at guys like you now and then, but it is all in fun really. You will learn the error of your ways one day also. Needle guns and western coyotes are not meant for each other. To each his own I say. Good hunting to you.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 29, 2007 06:30 PM
Rich,
I know what you're saying about pokin fun.That's why I was ribbin you abit.As for learning the error of my ways with respect to the .204,don't hold your breathe on that one,the damn things(coyotes)just keep folding up right where they stand.lol ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) But don't give up on the cannons if they work for ya.Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted January 29, 2007 06:46 PM
Hey Rich: for whats its worth i'm listen. And my thanks goes out to you and others for there advice...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5089 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted January 29, 2007 06:49 PM
Rich, Im not that far away at all and would love the chance to hear and see what you got to pass on. Say the word and Ill make time to come up and take in all I can.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 29, 2007 07:43 PM
TA & Andy,
Coyote population is way down around here because of mange. It never was what you could call GOOD coyote country, but I called and whacked a few every year. I am going to make some telephone calls tomorrow, just to see if my old texas contacts are still alive. If they are, I may be able to get down there come March. All of the Game bird & animal seasons are closed by then, but coyotes and cats are still legal to hunt. I have a friend that would drive me down there. I am betting that there are still a few coyotes with willing ears down there too. Coyote Heaven is what I used to call it.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted January 30, 2007 07:36 AM
Rich: "JD,
Did you realize that you can call Iowa coyotes right across an open field, no matter how many trucks have chased it? I mean on a regular basis now JD, no amount of hunting pressure or other human activity has any effect. I read it on the internet, so I know this to be true."
If someone did write that, I don't believe it for a minute. Different situations require different tactics. I'm familiar with your situation because I grew up in a similar area. No, you won't get many call shy coyotes to come running across an open field to a predator call. If you slip in on them in their living room in soft snow with full white camo, with the right sounds, you can get most of them to show up close enough for a long distance shot.
If not, you can send your buddy upwind of the coyote and post yourself downwind where he just dropped you off.
You can't skin excuses!
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2007 09:04 AM
Class action suit.
Plaintiff: Midwest yoters
Defendants: Foxpro and Ford Truck Division.
Make 'em pay.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31495 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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