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Author
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Topic: in reguards to P.M. group hunting
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 02, 2007 08:36 PM
Amen.
Sad thing is they call themselves hunters. Driving the roads, shooting out the window doesnt constitute hunting. Its shooting.
Most around here are equal opportunity as well. They call it coyote hunting. But hawks, crows, deer, dogs, rabbits, just about anything that isnt owned or human is fair game.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted February 02, 2007 09:46 PM
Well shit Andy, I`m fairly good with numbers & when I first read that I thought to myself "my God, that`s a coyote every 15 minutes for 11 hrs a day for 2 days" but when I punched in the numbers it turns out that my math isn`t so good after all, it comes out to be something close to a coyote every 12 minutes, 11 hrs a day, 2 days in a row. SHIIIT!!! I like a good bar room story just as much as the next guy but Gawd damn!!! That there is some goooood numbers!!!
It reminds me of a day a few years back when a feller was tellin a story out at Cabelas about how he & a buddy had spent the night before hunting under a full moon & they alledgedly road hunted a 40 mile stretch & killed 98 coyotes with spotlights, I looked him in the eye & told him he was full of shit to which he responded by promptly turning around & walking out of the store which is the proper thing for a liar to do when he runs into someone who calls his bluff. I don`t know, maybe I have some sort of social disorder but I just can`t abide bullshit when it gets that deep!
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 02, 2007 10:15 PM
You dont have a social disorder my friend. Just common sense.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted February 03, 2007 06:29 AM
JD: "I looked him in the eye & told him he was full of shit to which he responded by promptly turning around & walking out of the store which is the proper thing for a liar to do when he runs into someone who calls his bluff."
Good for you JD!
Let me buy you your next beer!
That made my day.
John Wayne ("the cowboys"): "I don't hold prison against you but I hate a liar"
~SH~
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 05, 2007 11:00 AM
I suppose I could do the math, if a certain state shot 3,5 or 10,000 coyote a year with planes, if I knew how many planes where involved and the number of hours flown.
I probably used a bad example on the ND truck hunters. I could have told the guy who told me, to tell the guy who told him, to tell the guy who told him etc.... that he was full of shit. My point was that, Yes truck hunters kill lots of coyote and that makes less coyote to call.
The issue is the excuses that shitty callers can come up with to explain their lack of success in their own back yards.
BTW: Saying that a good callers said that takes nothing away from the fact that he's a good caller.
An now I'll take Cronk's advice, There really isn't any reason for me to be on this board.
Later
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted February 05, 2007 02:58 PM
Actually the issue is that you are saying that Rich is a bad caller & that pressure on coyotes doesn`t make any difference on calling success.
I`ve never hunted with Rich but I suspect he knows a thing or 3 about calling & pressure on coyotes DOES have an effect on calling success.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 05, 2007 08:04 PM
Maybe I'm just thick headed, or I missed something, but I don't think that is what Greenside is trying to get at.
He's not calling anyone a bad caller, just pointing out that many callers look for excuses when they are unsuccessful.
While outside pressure can certainly effect the efforts of even a top caller, "sometimes this shit just don't work"
I'd hate to have Greenside give up posting here, I enjoy reading his posts.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 05, 2007 08:19 PM
I have made 73 stands this year at home and i have had no luck what so ever, its no ones fault, thats just the way its is and i except it. There are other ways to skin a cat and get the same results...
I too have enjoyed Greenside posts and hope he does decide to contnue them...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 05, 2007 08:34 PM
Dennis, there might be some baggage from somewhere else, but frankly, I do not see why you want to bail on your friends, here? I mean, hell, you're member #10, four years worth of posts and you were with us on the original board, as well.
Honestly, I don't know what the hell this bickering is all about? I cannot make sense of any of it and I believe there are a lot of us that don't understand either point of view. And, you know, if we have six pages and we're still in the dark, then I have to wonder if this is a huge misunderstanding. Okay, we don't like road hunters, (as defined by shooting from the windows, right?) and some of us have better hunting than others, but so what?
It has been said that you occasionally need a thick skin to hang out here, but this is ridiculous.
If anybody would like to explain (via email) what is going on here, I'd appreciate it.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31508 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted February 05, 2007 10:13 PM
Well, I didn`t mean to step in the shit here, my statement was more of an observation that there is "something" that Dennis doesn`t like about Rich, that`s none of my business, I merely tried to seperate THAT from the discussion about calling pressure. I had no intention of stirring the pot but it seems that I`ve done it regardless.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 05, 2007 10:18 PM
Leonard; Its all my fault and i will take the blame for starting this thread. We have snow comeing tonight and i think my punishment should be that i have to go hunt coyotes in it. Its not a good punishment but i will try and make the best of it, boy its gonna be cold -10. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted February 06, 2007 08:19 AM
Personally I'd like to hear more about Dennis's bean stubble stands. Like can it be done on a flat field or does it need to have a decent elevation drop so your not skylined. Not visible from the road? Are you prone or sitting, etc.
I call certain open fields that offer protection to the coyote from "pressure". They bed down out in those fields during the day and also hunt in those fields during the day. So looking for an injured rabbit in those fields is only natural for them. Fortunately my area has alot of rolling ground that creates these "safe pockets" or "safe zone", whatever you want to call them.
I wonder if this is similar to Dennis's approach?
And I agree with the "no excused" approach. I know the coyotes get alot of pressure, but I have the mindset that I need to find a way to use it to my advantage. Coyotes are hungry animals, and "pressure" can concentrate them into "safe zones". Which I assume over time those safe pockets start running short on food? After I locate these "safe zones" I call the coyotes in, being extremely careful not the disturb the peace and alarm a coyote(s)as I enter the "safe zone".
In my current situation I only get to call on average 1.5 stands a week for November and January (December is crazy with deer hunters, I don't call much if any). So for November and January I had roughly 12 stands, had 3 coyotes come to the call, one died at the edge of cover and 2 died out in an open field. And when hunting with a couple friends we spotted one bedded out in the open while we were walking to the stand, tried to call him but he wouldn't come, I missed a 400+ shot, I then howled and kiyi'd and got him to stop leaving and circle me wide at 500+, cut the distance when terrain allowed, and killed him with a 350 yard shot. So 4 dead coyotes for 12 stands over 2 months (nov, jan).
And the two coyotes that died out in the open picked fields, they were shot on farms that have dogs run through them mutliple days a week all winter long.
I think having the mentality that there are no excuses, the mindset that everything negative can be used as a positive, will make me a better caller and hunter and will kill more coyotes.
I think that might be the point Dennis is trying to make?
Edit: sorry I don't have alot of numbers, 12 stands is hardly a case study to prove my approach works, so I totally understand if Rich or others say I'm full of BS, I'm fine with that. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
later,
scruffy
[ February 06, 2007, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 06, 2007 08:33 AM
Greenside,
Don't leave because of me, shucks I am just an old burned out call maker. Sometimes I say things on the boards that make people angry. So do you. No big deal. Your opinions are just as valid as mine. Hang in there sir.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 06, 2007 11:29 AM
A few years ago I developed a little bit of ego, I was winning or at least placing in every stage calling contest and field contest that I was entering, and I actually came to believe that I could call any coyote that drew breath. Simply a matter of selection, approach and presentation. Then I began calling to coyotes that acted as though I had poked them with a cattle prod when I blew a call. They would literally turn and haul ass when they heard the first quiet coaxing sounds that I blew.
There are varying degrees of pressure and I am now convinced that some coyotes, in some areas, CANNOT be called.
Even blowing howls and other vocalizations will elicit only a long circuitous trip downwind, rather than an approach. Certainly an enterprising caller can sometimes station a shooter way downwind to ambush the sneaker but that is simply executing the animal rather than CALLING it to your stand.
You gentlemen that are calling to such animals need not worry about making excuses for lack of success because I have plenty of them ![[Smile]](smile.gif) and I am willing to share.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 06, 2007 12:41 PM
They can and will humble you, eh Rich?
Im with you. Thats what I was arguing with TA earlier in this thread about. I know we think alot the same, we have discussed it. To me, there is way more to this game than dead coyotes. In your scenario, if not in a contest, sending someone a quarter mile downwind to execute the coyote is pointless. Some will never understand that. Better watch out Higgins, TA will say you have lost your heart and will to hunt.
To me, just as pointless as driving the roads, shooting out the windows or runnin coyotes.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 06, 2007 12:54 PM
Well, I'm somewhere in the middle, Andy. I don't quibble with method, caliber (17, for instance) or electronic calls versus hand calls.
Maybe open reed is more sporting than closed reed or diaphram? Night hunting, or strictly daylight, what's right and wrong?
Much of these things amount to personal choice. I think a hunter downwind is a logical solution, although I don't do it much.
The other things you mentioned, drive bys and such, I agree, it's not cool, but I am not above bailing out and flinging lead in his direction.
Somewhere down the line, we will see some do gooder introduce a law prohibiting the stationing of a hunter down wind..... because it seems unsporting.
Control freaks, I hate them.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I had a visit with Higgins the other day and he said you dropped in. You could have left my 'shine with him, he doesn't drink.
[ February 06, 2007, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31508 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 06, 2007 01:20 PM
ego's/eagles;
I've tried my best to figure out coyote pop flucuations over the yrs. In my little hunt area[roughly, 3x10 square miles] give or take.
I thought[insert ego, here]. I finally figured something out in the last 9yrs. Every 3yrs, their pop went up[so it appeared stastically]. Regardless of external forces; prey pop, hunter pressure, mange, harsh weather vs. mild, wet vs. dry, ect, ect.
This yr, I figured out. They don't adhere to observed statistics.
Fall/Winter snowfly 06-07, proved me wrong finally.
I expected a high pop[well past 43-45 coyotes spotted].
So far, that is only what I've seen.
Greatest hurdle to overcome around here. Is overcoming the crusty loud snow. I'm still working on that. As I'm to pig-headed to quit.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 06, 2007 01:38 PM
LB,
Im not knocking it as much as I take offense to someone telling me I dont have any heart because I dont shoot everything I see. That pisses me off. Different agenda, maybe. I dont need to kill to get my jollies. The fun for me is in the hunt and calling them in. Now I like to kill a called coyote as much as anyone, but since Im not gathering fur or in a contest, I dont see the point in the other. In the past, yeah. Those days are gone.
BTW, I dropped in on Higgins in August. Not recently. Trust me, first time I think Im even close to you, Im packin shine. LOL
[ February 06, 2007, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 06, 2007 01:48 PM
LB,
Ill give an example from the campout. Now dont get me wrong, I had a blast. But made a couple of observations that made me chuckle at the way the human mind works.
One person I saw post later that "although there was no formal competition", in a longer post about the campout. I had to chuckle to myself. I didnt realize we were in a contest, period? I wasnt. I was there to meet some fine people and do a little hunting. Mostly socializing. Different agendas. Some come in a fever ready to see how many desert coyotes they can kill in 3 days. Some never leave camp. Some are in between.
No biggie, but everyone does have different ways of enjoying the same sport.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 06, 2007 02:14 PM
I stand corrected on the drop in; and as a matter of fact, I believe it was Gary, of the "no formal comp." statement, that had made the most recent pilgrimage, (besides myself) to visit with, and pay homage.
Good hunting. LB
edit: or was it JD and Brent, I didn't check the guest book!
[ February 06, 2007, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31508 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted February 06, 2007 02:18 PM
I have planned on dropping in and paying homage on a couple of occaisions this winter. Just hasnt worked out.
The damned weather here, there and in between have really screwed with my western hunting schedule this winter. I had plans, but too much ice and snow for travel. Kinda sucks.
LB, if you dont mind, email me your phone number sometime. I would like to visit with you.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted February 06, 2007 03:56 PM
Beware Leonard!!! That shine of Andys is potent. You may never be the same again after a slug of that stuff. If by chance you don`t like it I`ll give you my address so you can ship it to me.
2dogs, if you discover a way to traverse that crusty snow quietly, let me know.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 06, 2007 04:52 PM
Sure some callers don't kill coyotes all the time when called in, some callers are saveing them for contest hunts. Nothing wrong with that, but once the contest starts they are no different than me, kill what you see...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted February 06, 2007 05:05 PM
JD,
Crawling; I crawl straight armed on my fists & lower legs. I use my "lower legs" from the lateral sides of my knee's to the outer sides of my feet/ankles. Turning my feet inward [pidgeon toe'd]. It's very slow going, but deadly. Very quiet even on the loudest snow ![[Cool]](cool.gif) .
I always have 3-points of contact on the crusty snow, for balance & spreading my weight. Moving slowly & looking & listening to where I plant each fist & leg for crust noise. Before planting a fist or leg firmly.
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As for upright; I recently pounded down my snowshoe cleats & completely wrapped them in thick bathtowel. This reduced my noise by around 25%.
Also, I've thought of useing crutch's along with my buffered snowshoes. To spread & lighten my weight noise even more.
[ February 06, 2007, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted February 06, 2007 06:30 PM
hey ,shoot the hawks, they kill more phesants than a coyote ever thought of. truck hunters around here seem to have this thought that they are the annointed ones. Trespass does not apply to them,courtesy to other hunters means nothing,they are exempt from motor vehicle laws,. I absolutley know of no truck hunting groups here that are not all exactly the same. I will kill more coyotes alone than any one of those groups. The very last thing they are is hunters.They and their behavoir stink.If that is not being too severe.
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Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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