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Author
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Topic: Coyote calling demographics
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scruffy
Knows what it's all about
Member # 725
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posted December 30, 2005 07:34 AM
Before getting on the internet, and pretty much before I came to this site, I only knew the name Blair (from one of his books I've read multiple times), Johnny and Gerald Stewart (have alot of JS calls and one HS video), and of course Randy Anderson and Byron South from seeing their videos on the shelves.
After being here a while I'm picking up the names and the history of the "legends" or "founders" or whatever you'd like to call yourselves ("Pampass know it alls?" ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ).
Anyway, this thread in particular shows alot of the personalities behind the names of the "legends" and "stars". A little insite into everyone's character.
later,
scruffy
[ December 30, 2005, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
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Git R Done
Posts: 361 | From: south central Iowa | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted December 30, 2005 07:43 AM
Here is another twist on video production. Most of you have seen the video that Murphy and I put together, and I have done a couple of other little deals for BassPro on TV and Video. One of my quirks is that I so far have refused to do anything instructional in any of these productions. I have never felt that I was in a position to be giving instruction, especially because I knew (as Scott has above mentioned) that some of the people that I have learned from would be watching. And I don't feel that I know enough to be teaching. So everything I have done so far has been just footage of coyotes, or coyotes and dogs. And I thought that would be enough for some really good entertainment. There is another county trapper on the video and he and I discussed stuff like this at great length, that as "younger" guys of the trade we really didn't feel that we should be trying to teach someone to do what we do. So as you have noticed, there are no segments of "how, where, why and when". Now that we are in the process of selling this video and it's circulation is getting out to the masses, it is being recieved fairly well, but I keep getting one complaint. Both from callers and retail companies alike. That there is no "instructions" in it. So is that the point we are at now? Do you have to give instructions in every video? Does everyone expect to recieve some instruction and a secret or two for their 20 bucks? Are we to the point that not many want to just watch some good footage? As another example, and Gerald will have the answer to this, I have watched Operation Predator 1 and 2. Now in my opinion #1 was great. I like Eddie and Gerald both on camera, they are pretty laid back and easy to watch and not too much "in your face". But here comes #2, and to me personally, it was too much the other way. Too much of everything, but coyotes. Now I'm betting that the production style changed because of someone besides Gerald and Ed Wimberly. And to me it was far less enjoyable. Gerald?
Anyway, more food for thought.
[ December 30, 2005, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 30, 2005 07:46 AM
Randy,
How can I take your statement out of context? I posted your exact quote. You said it and now you want to backpeddle. It's bullsh*t! You typed before you thought and now you're pissing on yourself again.
RB: "You aren't interested in helping people learn to kill more coyotes."
Yet another lie!
I suppose that would explain why I volunteered to give a coyote trapping demo for the NTA's fundraising video wouldn't it?
YUP, SHOR NUFF GOT ME THAR RANDY! Another dog that won't hunt.
I'll give you a perfect example Randy of where I presented useful CALLING information on this very site. One of the biggest frustrations in the calling world is the difficulties associated with calling coyotes in the Eastern U.S. as compared to areas in the west. I explained in great detail how to improve calling success in the East by working downwind areas surrounding open meadows with a calling partner or remote caller in the meadow. I explained how coyotes will circle just inside the timberline to the downwind area where the gunner is waiting. I received many thank yous for that bit of information.
You're discrediting tactics simply won't work Randy. You must be running out of dogs by now huh?
For you to say what you said was simply your ego talking and I'm still bewildered as to why? If my description of a fast buck artist and prostitution of the sport doesn't fit you, what are concerned about? Obviously I wasn't talking about you was I? Geez kid, get over it. Get a life!
RB: "What I did say was that you come on here and spew forth a bunch of crap that isn't useful for anyone."
That's your opinion Randy! I happen to feel that the real crap is those who plagerize others knowledge and hard work for their own financial gain and notoriety without having the experience to even know how to properly apply the knowledge they have learned and without giving respect to their teachers. I find that repulsive.
If that description doesn't fit you, then I have no idea why you are making such a big issue of this. In case you didn't notice Randy, I'm not the only one who shares this opinion.
The opinions on this issue will obviously vary depending on whether a person is on the receiving end, on the selling and misrepresenting end, or the giving end of the information.
RB: "You come on here all puffed up and full of yourself and usually just bitch about something. Just like you did in this thread."
Another dog that won't hunt. Anyone can go to the first post and see that I wanted to talk about coyote calling demographics and threw out the word "prostitute" that I later explained in detail only to watch the real "puff ups" come out of the wood work because they obviously have guilty consciences.
Either the description fits you or it doesn't Randy. If it doesn't, then you have nothing to take issue with. If it does, then you got your toes stepped on with good justification as far as I'm concerned. Your persistance with this would suggest that my descritption does fit you.
Like I said, you just can't spin it to your satisfaction can you?
RB: "Too many people here know me and know that your opinion of me is nothing but crap."
Yet another dog that won't hunt.
Randy, I don't know anything about you other than your reaction to this post and my response. To that, I found out a long time ago that you can't judge anyone based on words on a computer screen. I don't have an opinion of YOU, I only have an opinion of what you wrote.
If you say that you haven't learned anything from me, than that says that you either can't read, or you can't learn, or you've never read any of my posts but that's only one thing about you. I don't judge you based on your reaction to my concerns about calling prostitution. I haven't met a coyote caller yet that I didn't like.
RB: "The thing you don't realize is that you aren't slick or smooth and others see through the crap."
Congratulations Randy, you finally got something right about me. I'm not slick or smooth. I'm extremely blunt and to the point and I don't have a lot of tact as you already pointed out.
~SH~
[ December 30, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 30, 2005 08:22 AM
To elaborate on a previous post, I didn't agree with the statement that Q posted from Craig O'Gorman but I have the utmost respect for Craig's knowledge, his work ethic, his methods, and his experience. He is the best coyote trapper I know and I learned a lot from him back in 1983 or 84 that I still apply. I would recommend his instructions to anyone interested in bettering their coyote trapping knowledge. As Q pointed out, Craig does always give credit to those who taught him.
~SH~
[ December 30, 2005, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted December 30, 2005 09:08 AM
Cal said, "Do you have to give instructions in every video? Does everyone expect to recieve some instruction and a secret or two for their 20 bucks?"
I can only speak for myself here. I liked your latest video just the way it was, Cal. No "filler", just field work. That's what I look for in a video. I want to "see" you putting those tricks and stratigies into action. I don't want to be "told" about it. I want to see it being applied. Talk is cheap if there is no action to back it up.
A $25 video with 10-20 minutes of jaw time doesn't impress me as much as some of Higgin's home grown vids he gave me. No dialog, no showboating, no commercials, and no credits. Just a hard working predator caller letting you look over his shoulder while he does his thing. That's how I learn to improve on what I already know.
Cal, it's only the newbies that need hand holding and classroom instruction. If that is your target audience, then that is what is required. However, if you're selling to experienced hunters, then they'll know a "secret" when they see it. No flashing neon lights needed, lol.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2005 10:04 AM
Since I have been slowed down by this surgery, Ronnie Robberson was kind enough to send me twelve pounds of videos belonging to Higgins, which he sent, to help in his recovery. So, I have been getting all knowed up on predator hunting videos, thanks to the thoughtfulness of Rich and Ronnie.
And, of course, I have formed a few opinions. Do I need instruction, or is my interest in entertainment?
At this point, let me just say that the most boring video I watched was by Vern Howey. Nothing but talking head. I suppose it has value for some people, but I don't plug in a video to learn how to hunt predators. If I don't know by now, I never will.
So, I agree with Cal, from the standpoint of the consumer. It's all about entertainment, forget about instruction. For those that need the instruction....let's face it, they never get enough. Some of these guys are hopeless, step by step and they still have not a clue. Okay, a couple of tips, here and there, but are you really going to learn how to hunt coyotes from watchng a video? get real.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 30, 2005 10:04 AM
Me, I don't want any instruction, unless it applies to my area.
I also don't care to watch someone else hunt, so I have little or no use for hunting videos.
Part of it too, for me, is why would I want to put $20 in some guy's pocket, who has (probably) rattled my cage online (whether he meant to or not)?
I'd shoot myself in the head, before I'd watch "Hunting the Night Shift", or own any product produced by PM staff members.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 10:22 AM
Krusty,
Where shall I send the copy?
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 10:24 AM
Scott,
You said: How can I take your statement out of context? I posted your exact quote. You said it and now you want to backpeddle. It's bullsh*t! You typed before you thought and now you're pissing on yourself again.
You implied that I said you *couldn't* teach me anything and then called me arrogant. In fact, that's not what I said at all. I simply said I haven't learned anything from you.
No backpeddling and no pissing on myself. Sorry to let you down.
you keep trying to slant what I say and it just not working.
I wouldn't mind hashing things out with you but you are dishonest. You attempt to manipulate what is said. The problem with that is that it's all here for everyone to see. Do you honestly believe others are that simple minded?
[ December 30, 2005, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Randy Buker ]
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted December 30, 2005 10:34 AM
Randy, that reply to KK was an instant classic and will put a smile on my face for a long time. Thanks.
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 10:39 AM
Rich,
I just couldn't help it. I always thought I had treated Krusty fairly and for him to pick me out of a line up because I'm "PM staff" was just plain unfair. So, I'll happily donate a copy. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 30, 2005 10:48 AM
Randy Buker,
Do you have instructional video on what a coyote looks like, or maybe how to run one down with a bike?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 10:51 AM
That instructional video is the next one due out. But, I need to find someone to give credit to before I can publish it.
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted December 30, 2005 10:56 AM
Randy.
Cut 2 holes in a paper sack and you can be the
Unknown Predator Hunter
Is it Randy?
Is it Scott?
Is it Leonard?
OH NO!!!!
It's Bill!!!!
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2005 11:27 AM
What a swell guy. Just so Krusty can shoot or backpeddle. And, Lance will probably pick up the cost of postage. (just kidding, Cdog)
Krusty would probably feel obligated to watch your video and do a review. That's just the kind of guy he is. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Bur, Randy. I'm still trying to figure out why you have such a burr under your saddle over Wiley's views? You are not hardly a prominent figure in the predator hunting video industry, like Randy Anderson or Byron South. Why such a negative reaction? I assume you have a day job that pays the rent. Byron doesn't even call himself an artist or gate designer any more. He says that he is a video producer, which sounds to me like it's a full time occupation, or Ho, if you buy into Scott's description. I never even heard you claim to be a major player in the predator hunting community, or a movie star. As we all know, hunting red foxes does not make one an authority, no more than being a moderator on PM confers status as an authority. I can't see where you have been singled out for abuse, since (let's be honest) your contribution to the complete body of knowledge is modest, at best. No disrespect, intended. In fact, I think that those people that tend to minimize their stature are generally are most often elevated by their peers. Self promotion has less value. For example, I do not (personally) confer stature based on the number of videos cranked out in the shortest amount of time.
There are many ways of gaining respect. Respect from some segments of the fraternity has more value than some others; such as the less informed newbie. Respect from the hardcore among us is more difficult and takes longer.
And, before you attempt to shoot me down in retaliation, I have always said that I'm just an advanced amateur; one of the boys, nothing more. I am not burdened by a burning desire to become famous or get rich from hunting videos.
But, we are still friends, because I know you can handle my unvarnished and honest opinion.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 30, 2005 11:51 AM
Randy,
Send a copy to Leonard, I am sure he could use a good laugh.
YOU think you treated me fairly, on a personal level or as PM spokesman, I DO NOT.
I did say "rattled my cage (whether he meant to or not)"
I figure you rattled my cage some, and the last thing I want to do is watch you having fun.
I am entitled to my opinion, and to express that opinion by NOT opening my wallet and giving you a dime.
Also I singled out your video, because of all the videos I can think of, it has the LEAST that would apply to my own world. Night hunting here is even more futile than day hunting, and illegal much of the year. And because you, personally, piss me off.
The part about PM staff was an afterthought, and should have been seperated by more than a comma.
They (most of them) pretty much piss me off too.
Can you think of a single reason why I shouldn't be pissed?
I don't like giving MY money to people I don't like.
No backpeddling, correcting grammar.
Mr Higgins,
If nothing else, I am good for a laugh now and then, I got a good chuckle from that one too.
What the heck, now maybe my mailbox will overflow with merchandise. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Besides, my head is so thick the bullet would probably bounce off (I can't believe nobody used that joke?!?).
Mr Cronk,
You cannot run over what is not there. Just like you cannot call it.
I seen a coyote two days ago, a block from my house, headed for the golf course (where else?). I know what they look like, when they are standing in the road.
Do you know what they look like from 15 feet inside the blackberries?
Blackberries.
I got money now, I'll gladly pay air fair for any one of you "know it alls" to come out here and show me how it's done.
I got my fork and knife ready.
Put up, or shut up.
Leonard,
You're right, if I did end up with a copy I'd watch it and give an honest review (trying as hard as I could not to be biased by my own personal interaction with the person supplying me with a product.
Byron asked for my opinion when I saw his videos, and I thought I was quite fair about it.
Didn't shoot myself, my TV, or Byron's reputation.
Krusty
P.S. Leonard,
So I take it you're not going to call me? I gotta go, and call Ronnie, I need to talk to him in person/real time about some stuff... maybe he'll gimme yer ph# lol.
[ December 30, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 12:04 PM
Yes, Leonard, we are still friends. You've taken your pokes at me and I've poked you right back. I can live with that.
And, you ask a fair question as to why I have a burr under my saddle for Scott's posts.
Scott never called me a prostitute and I don't feel his post was pointing a finger at me personally either.
The thing that fires me up the most about Scott's posts is his broad finger pointing and lack of respect in his dealings with folks. His insinuations about those who "Prostitute" the sport is so much crap.
He said: Prostitute: A person who degrades his talents for money
I saw that as a slam against anyone who makes money from his talent as "degrading" himself. I simply disagreed.
His next reply was full of degrading comments. Such as: Funny Randy, I've never met you either yet you think you know so much about me. You don't know sh*t about me and you just made a fool of yourself by proving it.
I believe in giving folks respect until they have proven they don't deserve it. He has shown me no respect and in turn, I've shown him none. Hell, just as an example of his disrepectful self, he called Byron numerous other names all the way though. The thing that angered me as our discussion went along was his twisting my words and taking them out of context and then denying it. That's low.
Bottom line with Scott is that, as I have said before, I won't let anyone talk down to me without defending myself. Scott has done nothing but talk down to me.
As far as your comments about my not being a prominent figure in the predator hunting video industry... I didn't realize that one had to be a Randy Anderson or a Byron South in order to have an opinion.
You also said "As we all know, hunting red foxes does not make one an authority, no more than being a moderator on PM confers status as an authority." Actually, hunting as many red foxes as I have, studying them as I have and being as effective at hunting them as I have become actually does make me somewhat of an authority on them. Or, if not an authority on hunting them, at least someone who can hand out some useful advice from time to time. And, between my writings and web page and participation on these boards, I very pleased to say that I've helped many people who had questions about fox hunting along the way.
You are right, I've never said I was a major player in the predator hunting world. I've never said I was a movie star. But, I'll make this statement right here and right now.... I'm way cuter than either Randy Anderson or Byron South.
And, I am apparently like you, Leonard. A rather advanced amatuer. One who is pretty darned successful. And, I too have no burning desire for fame or fortune from my videos or writing. But, the checks I cash pay for some pretty nice toys and hunting trips.
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 12:17 PM
Krusty,
Leonard has already seen the video. I even had a copy of his review/opinions in my files.
I also have copies of your emails to me from your time at PM. In fact, in the same note you wrote me two seperate emails... One to Randy the PM spokesman and one to "Randy the dude." You said then you had no hard feelings and that you knew I was relaying what I had to for my job. I had no idea that I "piss" you off. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, when the whole issue of those flipper lights came to pass on this very board you offered to build me one.
But, you are right in that you are entitled to your opinion. Have at it.
Randy
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
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posted December 30, 2005 01:28 PM
Leonard writes:
"I finally had a chance to look up a "misting" thread on PM. I'm sorry but.... talk about a few confused people! No clue. Especially Byron; wrote a whole list of reasons why misting won't work.
Dude, you are not qualified to tell the public something about which you don't understand.
Also, another gem I read: the reasoning that...."if it worked, everybody would be using it". Hello! Everybody out here IS using it."
This is exactly what I'm talking about:
1. The inexperience to recognize the value of information from far more experienced callers.
2. The lack of respect for that information and the individual that disclosed it.
Some of you guys are so caught up in your own self promotion that you don't even realize the value of the information you receive from someone like Leonard.
If there is one thing I have found over the years it's that ONLY experience recognizes the true value in knowledge that is based on experience.
Out of all the callers that I have shared information with over the years it was the most experienced and the most successful callers that appreciated and respected the information I gave them the most because they had enough experience of their own to recognize and appreciate the value in what I had taught them.
Now that can be taken two ways. That can be taken in an insecure defensive "puffed up" manner to mean that I needed to be stroked or it can be taken in the manner in which it was intended meaning that it's rewarding to help someone and know that the help you gave them was appreciated.
Let's take Leonard's "misting" as a perfect example. When I first started surfing around on the net I found Posse Country. I already had enough years under my belt at that time to immediately recognize Leonard's experience in his writings. Leonard even had more experience than I did. Leonard and I started out rattling sabors over the issue of publicly funded ADC programs but I never lost respect for his obvious knowledge. In fact, when I was asked by Will Craig to moderate Predator Masters when it first started, I told Will Craig I would only consider it if Leonard would also agree to it because I wanted to be in good company. I didn't feel qualified to be teaching calling techniques to someone of Leonard's caliber without him. Fortunately, Leonard agreed.
Leonard wrote a lot about night calling and competition hunting with impressive takes back when today's rookies were still filling their diapers. Leonard talked about night calling and he talked about misting. At first I thought Leonard was using misting as a cover scent which I didn't agree with because cover scent's are useless. I had done enough research on that issue based on what drug dogs could sort out. Leonard was using misting for a specific reason that I will not divulge now out of respect for Leonard. It made total sense and it still does. I gave Leonard the benefit of the doubt and he explained his reasoning which made perfect sense.
I hope at least some of you realize just how much knowledge is at your fingertips with someone like Leonard and all that is required is a little respect. Some can't even give that.
It's not surprising that someone without enough experience to recognize the value of misting would suggest that it wouldn't work. Haha! That's funny!
Leonard: "For example, I do not (personally) confer stature based on the number of videos cranked out in the shortest amount of time."
Hahaha! This Bud's for you Leonard!
RB: "I wouldn't mind hashing things out with you but you are dishonest."
Talk is cheap Randy.
Show everyone where I said one thing that was dishonest. The posts are all still there. The only editing was done immediately following my review and I certainly can't edit someone else quoting what I've already said can I?
BRING IT RANDY! Give me one example of something that I said that was dishonest.
Watch the diversion folks........
RB: "The thing that angered me as our discussion went along was his twisting my words and taking them out of context and then denying it. That's low."
That's bullsh*t is what it is.
Show me one example where I twisted your words or took them out of context? JUST ONE!
BRING IT RANDY!
Watch the diversion folks..........
Do you actually think the readers here are such mindless lemmings that they need your interpretation of what has been stated?
You just don't like being introduced to yourself. That's what the problem is.
Allow me to introduce you to yourself again Randy:
RB: "And because I've had the chance to read much of what you've written over the years I've drawn some conclusions."
RB: "If I think back to what I may have learned from you about predator hunting, I realize that it's nothing."
I don't need to try to interpret those statements Randy, they are self-explanatory.
Like I said, you are either incapable of learning, you can't read, you've never had a chance to apply the knowledge (you hunt fox instead of coyotes), or you are too arrogant to admit having learned anything from me. You choose! If you can't learn anything from me about calling coyotes, you can't learn anything from anyone. I don't say that with arrogance, I say that it with confidence. Don't confuse the two.
Here's two more statements of yours:
RB: "For some reason you feel everyone who responds is guilty."
RB: "You aren't interested in helping people learn to kill more coyotes."
Both of those statements are BOLD FACED LIES Randy and you want to lecture me on dishonesty? Spare me! I suppose you're going to try to change the meaning of these statements too huh?
You couldn't back either of those statements if your life depended on it.
Randy: "The thing that fires me up the most about Scott's posts is his broad finger pointing and lack of respect in his dealings with folks. His insinuations about those who "Prostitute" the sport is so much crap."
If you are still upset about your ORIGINAL INTERPRETATION of my statement, I can't help that. You know what I meant now. I explained it thoroughly. If my concerns do not apply to you, let it go. If they do, then you are one of the parasites. Only you can decide.
If you don't like my attitude towards the inexperienced parasites who prostitute the sport by selling other's knowledge and hard work for their own financial gain and notoriety without even acknowledging who taught them, that's fine. I can live with that but I won't apologize for it nor expect you to understand it. The only ones who fully understand it are those with the same level of experience that I have like Leonard and Varmit Hunter.
RB: "Hell, just as an example of his disrepectful self, he called Byron numerous other names all the way though."
Hahaha! What an imagination you have.
Here, let's try this one on for size:
BS: "In reading this thread a few words come to mind. Rude, arrogant, high and mighty, egotistical, paranoid, envious, insecure, smart assed, narrow minded, poor attitude, bitter, selfish, hypocritical, but most of all manipulative."
Lecture me on name calling again Randy! LOL!Yeh, you bet!
You want to read a classic spin job by the same author? Here it is:
BS: "Your not alone in your seemingly, bitter assessment of others that would somehow like to enjoy and learn the art of calling critters and those that are willing to help them."
I won't bother to ask you for proof to back that statement because it doesn't exist. Another Bold Faced Lie. I never said anything negative towards anyone wanting to learn. In contrast, I have taught many. That statement was total bullsh*t as well.
My negative statements are towards the inexperienced who are selling other's knowledge for their own financial gain and notoriety with no respect towards those that taught them.
Here's one that's even better:
BS: "I know who Scott Huber is, and I respect him enough not to judge him."
Followed by:
BS: "In reading this thread a few words come to mind. Rude, arrogant, high and mighty, egotistical, paranoid, envious, insecure, smart assed, narrow minded, poor attitude, bitter, selfish, hypocritical, but most of all manipulative."
I don't need to try to interpret that direct contradiction either. It's self-explanatory.
RB: "Bottom line with Scott is that, as I have said before, I won't let anyone talk down to me without defending myself. Scott has done nothing but talk down to me."
I thought you didn't care what I thought??? LOL!
Which way is it?
If my original remark did not apply to you ONCE EXPLAINED, you had the chance to let it go just like Lance did. For whatever reason, you couldn't let it go. So back and forth we go.
Let me help you out here Randy because you're obviously trying to ride out a sinking ship. If my definition of an industry prostitute does not apply to you, just drop it. I should have explained it thoroughly enough by now to where you have no doubts what I am talking about yet you still want to clutch on to your original interpretation or you have a guilty conscience because me remarks do apply to you. With your relentless pursuit to try to discredit me because of my views, you're only making yourself look guilty of exactly what I detest. Let it go!
You claim that my statement doesn't apply to you, that's good enough for me until proven otherwise. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENSE!
Better yet, why don't you ask me something about coyote behavior, stand selection, handling coyotes, vocalizations or something you would like to learn more about. If you took a different attitude, you might find out that you could improve your calling success simply by deflating your ego and showing a little respect for those who have more experience than you.
If you are waiting for an apology for my views on the parasites in this industry, it won't happen and I don't care what anyone thinks of me for holding that view.
Krusty,
I have been intrigued by your situation since I first saw pictures of your country. There is no doubt that you are faced with some challenging obstacles to overcome. I have absolutely no doubts that with your determination to stick with calling coyotes, despite your limited success DUE TO THESE OBSTACLES, if you were in an area with more coyotes and easier terrain to hunt, you would tear 'em up. I'm obsessed with obtaining success in difficult situations. I wish I could help you out.
I wish I understood your situation better to try to help you out IF I COULD. I know you've been frustrated like a lot of guys in the Eastern U.S. have been but even more so.
Did the strategies we discussed previously help you in any way?
~SH~
[ December 30, 2005, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 30, 2005 03:15 PM
First off, for the record, Leonard taught me all I know about misting. He was the primary contributor in my article on misting (totally consentual) and is the sole reason I am now known in darker quarters as a "misbred, hare-lipped idiot". I would defend myself regarding that endearing title, but they banned my ass some time ago because the .17 isn't a good coyote caliber. Their misunderstanding, not mine.
Having said that, I was a contributor on that thread at PM about misting, explaining some of my more recent hypotheses about how or why it works so well, as well as relating some of my own more dramatic experiences. I could easily have attributed everything I was saying to Leonard Bosinski but I felt compelled, out of respect, to take all the heat from the naysayers onto my own shoulders. You weren't forgotten, Leonard. I just chose to sit on the grenade all by myself.
As far as paying the postage to get Randy's video to K, c'mon!!! I agreed some time back to bury the hatchet with Krusty and I'm a man of my word. Krusty has been very cordial and respectful to me and I plan to extend the same courtesy toward him. Granted, his remark was a bit blunt and came across as not so much a simple exclamation of his personal opinion as an attempt at being visciously inflammatory. But, what the hell. If he wants to jump on that bull, go for it. He explained his stance and I can't disagree with his philosophy. (Hell has done frozen over.)
To his credit, he was quick to state, right out front, that Randy and the guys at PM piss him off. He didn't cloak his position in vague innuendos and indirect assertions which, to the casual reader, could have been directed at any one of the majority of us, guilty consciences or not. This damned thread is six and a half pages long! I kinda think we could have avoided a whole lot of grief and wasted bandwidth had Scott just started out by saying "Johnny Dogcaller really pisses me off!" and started from there because I still don't have a clue who he's pissed at. Granted, he's entitled to his opinion, mjust loike anyone else. But I work witha guy that carried on for more than two weeks about how evil Sant Claus is (Satan Claus to him) and how those of us that insisted on letting our children believe in that pagan BS were all going to hell. Finally, I dragged him in front of management and told them that the first time he opened his mouth, he expressed his opinion. Since then, everything he said was spoken with the intent not to express his opinion, but rather, to antagonize. In that sense, he crossed a line. Kinda the ame thing going on here if you ask me. You didn't, so I'll just keep my mouth shut from here on out.
Krusty,
Why don't we pop the tops on a couple cold beers and watch Scott and Randy beat the crap outta each other?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2005 03:18 PM
Scott, you are embarassing me with your compliments. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I'm unworthy.
I'm still waiting for you guys to reach some mutual respect and understanding. How long will the wait be?
Good hunting. LB
edit: sorry, Lance. I know you and K have reached accord. I was just yanking your chain. I appreciate your defense of misting over there, you did your best. Of course, I am prevented from participating. Some people might see a glaring unfairness in that; since several people responding here in this thread are moderators on PM. Just think, I used to be an important and valuable contributor on PM. But, for the past three years, I'm persona non grata. Something is wrong with that picture, if you ask me?
[ December 30, 2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted December 30, 2005 04:58 PM
K-rist.....Don`t any of you guys have jobs?
Scott, I see your your point clearly & it`s a valid one for sure. Perhaps, maybe, it`s a possibility, that I was a little off in my assesment of YOUR ego.
Bad info is abundant on the net & people soak it up like a sponge so I understand your disdain for inexperienced people giving out bad info but I don`t care who takes credit for what as long as the "tip" is a valid one, people will benefit. I`ve come up with some good ideas in construction & see others using them that either don`t know where it started or claim to have been the originator in fact I`m sure that somebody somewhere probably did those things before I did but it doesn`t matter much to me if they pass it along because it`s a valid idea with some merrit to it, who cares where it came from.
Most of these flash in the pan types are just that, here today & gone tommorrow & in the future we`ll all still be calling predators & loving every minute of it & they`ll be miserable specimens who sit & wonder what happened to the good ol` days when they were famous while we mock them around a campfire somewhere in the desert, it`ll all come out in the wash.
I don`t want to open any sores or start a war of any kind or call Lance any colorful names but I`ll say this....Whether it be bad info or just a misunderstanding, I too have obviously misunderstood the reason behind or the purpose of misting but after your post it would seem that maybe I should go over to PM & research it a little before I make up my mind.
See, even a growly deviant from NE. can pick out a nugget or 2 from a train wreck like this.
You guys really need to go find jobs.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 30, 2005 05:06 PM
Randy,
Yep, you got e-mails from me... funny thing is, I got NO ANSWER from you.
I said in my e-mails I didn't have a problem with you, then you blew me off, and didn't have the courtesy to asnwer my direct questions in those e-mails. That is disrespectful, especially in light of the fact I was trying to be nice about a very ugly and unfair screwing I was getting.
That pissed me off.
I stuck my neck WAY out, for you, in the flipper light thread. And I was left to take my lumps for it.
I offered to build you a flipper light, because I then (mistakenly) thought your opinion was worth a dang, and that in doing so I might help (the many of us who don't "get" night hunting) to take a huge step forward.
Not because I like you.
The fact that you weren't as willing to help, and the way that whole messed turned, that was the end for me. You blew your chance to regain my respect.
Scott,
Thanks, but my determination to call coyotes where I live has gone down a whole lot.
I do expect to call other predators, close to home, as I have done in the past, but I no longer expect to ever see a coyote come to a stand.
I tend to agree, if I were in a coyote rich environment, I'd do okay.
My situation is not unique, though it might be a "highly concentrated" version of what many others go through, it is challenging though.
I have a whole lot less frustration related to hunting, than I do with the internet, but I have my frustrating days in the field too.
So many things so many people have done, to try to help me, are working, in small steps.
I'm slowly improving all the skills needed, and my understanding of predator calling.
This year, I haven't been trying very hard, I'll admit it.
I'm not giving up, but I am no longer driven, and I got a lot on my plate right now... a two hour duck hunt (where I fire more shots in one morning than I ever did at predators) is easier to get excited about than a 15 hour drive to where EVERYONE else goes to harrass coyotes on public land.
As soon as I can replace my sick and dying '79 Ford Fiesta (I have the $, just need to find a rig) I'll get serious and go where coyotes are.
My old soul could use some wintering in the desert, my S.A.D. has been kickin' my ass this year.
If you should ever happen out this way, I'd be glad to show you around.
Lance,
I knew my first statement might be inflammatory, but I didn't make it JUST to be inflammatory.
I thought the point should be made, that not everyone likes videos, or the guys in them.
There's an exception to every rule... and often times, I am it.
And then, he asked, so I answered truthfully.
Man, that helps so much when they do that.
As long as mine is a root beer, I am cool with that.
quote:
Some people might see a glaring unfairness...
Leonard,
Gee, ya think? Some people might...
Krusty
P.S. JD, This is how I chose to waste my vacation.
[ December 30, 2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 30, 2005 05:14 PM
I think Scott is a public employee. So, Joe wants to know why he isn't killing coyotes, instead of participating on this "train wreck". I'm retired, with nothing better to do.
Seems like I have seen you around before, maybe on the darkside?
But, my real reason for this response: You won't learn much of nothing about "Leonard's Magic Mist" on Predator Masters, of all places. That's rude, Dude!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Buker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 134
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posted December 30, 2005 05:30 PM
Wow Scott, Your fingers have to be worn to nubs after that one!
I'll address your issues one by one but without all this Bull Sh!t quoting. (Yeah, I can hear it now... No proof, my opinion, etc. etc. But, everyone else will be able to draw their own conclusions..
First my saying you are dishonest. That's based on your taking things out of context. The example was you calling me arrogant because I said I never learned anything from you. You implied that I meant that I couldn't learn anything from you because I was too arrogant to listen and learn. In fact, on face value, all I said was that I haven't learned from you, not that it was impossible.
Your next concern was that I called you on taking things out of context. That's addressed above and relates to why I say you are dishonest.
YOu said: Like I said, you are either incapable of learning, you can't read, you've never had a chance to apply the knowledge (you hunt fox instead of coyotes), or you are too arrogant to admit having learned anything from me. You choose! If you can't learn anything from me about calling coyotes, you can't learn anything from anyone. I don't say that with arrogance, I say that it with confidence. Don't confuse the two.
Actually, Scott, there is another choice that you didn't list. That choice would be that you've never written anything that I've seen that was new to me. Sorry, man. You aren't the only one with plenty of answers to the wiley ol' coyote. As far you you telling me not to confuse arrogance with confidence, you should have saved that line for me to tell you not to confuse the two. It's obvious you don't have a clue what the differences are.
I said: "For some reason you feel everyone who responds is guilty." You said that's a bold faced lie. If that's not true, then why do you keep insinuating that anyone who has responded to your post in a defensive manner feels guilty????
You told me to let this prostitution comment go if it does't apply to me. This isn't about that anymore. It's about your disrespectful attitude toward me and others.
I said: RB: "Hell, just as an example of his disrepectful self, he called Byron numerous other names all the way though." You replied that I had an active imagination. Yeah???? Here's your proof. And, see, I have caught you in one of your lies and you won't be able to back out of it. You called him (and these are copied directly from your posts.)
Just out of curiousity Brian, since I don't know you from Adam and have never seen your videos, would it be safe to say that you are helping others for monetary gain? Brian???
And Brian again. Hold your horses Brian, I don't know you from Adam. Never saw any of your videos. Don't jump to conclusions thinking my "prostitution" comment was referring to you.
And another one just a few lines down in the same post. If you're not Joe, don't worry about it Bryan South.
And a different version of it. Only Bryon, You, Cal, and Ronnie can answer that.
Finally on Page 4 you got it right. Same goes for Byron South.
Playing games with someone's name like that just further shows your disrepect. Your saying you hadn't done it shows your dishonesty. I suppose you could go back now and edit all your posts. That's why I quoted directly from them.
Tell me again that you don't lie or play games???
You want more examples of your manipulations? Here's one: You quoted Byron: "I know who Scott Huber is, and I respect him enough not to judge him."
Then you quoted him again: BS: "In reading this thread a few words come to mind. Rude, arrogant, high and mighty, egotistical, paranoid, envious, insecure, smart assed, narrow minded, poor attitude, bitter, selfish, hypocritical, but most of all manipulative." I have got ask where in the world you assumed he was talking about you!?!?! He never mentioned your name at all. Or, if you want me to play the same game as you have been doing with me. Unless of course you feel GUILTY then I guess we all know the truth!
Scott, I know you aren't about to cower over, show your belly and submit. Funny thing is, neither am I. You keep wanting me to point out and justify the things I've said. I've done that. Are you satisfied?
What I'm expressing have been nothing more than my opinion and perceptions. Funny thing is, that's exacty what you've been expressing. Who is right... Hmmmmm. If you go away, I can think I'm right. OK?
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Hunting the Red Fox
www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Posts: 158 | From: Parkers Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2003
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