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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 09, 2004, 07:14 PM:
I see on All Predator Calls.com there is a new video by Mark Zepp, gonna have Dan Thompson and John-Henry among others. Every one's making vids nowdays ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I need to get Jays new one,heard its very good?
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 09, 2004, 07:30 PM:
Lone Howl,
I haven't seen Jay's video, but I do know Jay Nistetter. I am betting that his new video is well worth the money.
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 09, 2004, 07:38 PM:
I got Mark Zepp's video and watched it over the week-end. Absolutely first class. It is a one hundred percent professional production. One and one half hours long and the only thing on the video that I disagreed wqith was his statement that scent mist does not work. I also watched Bill Martz video. Another professionally produced video. A number of things I disagreed with. Mr. Zepp's video was 20 bucks and Mr. Martz's video was 30 bucks. Should have been reversed.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 09, 2004, 08:04 PM:
scent mist? how does that work?
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on August 09, 2004, 08:28 PM:
I can see I need to get a couple more videos now.
Leonard. Scent Mist is "critter-pee-in-a-bottle" that's squirted downwind towards your buddy. This is a sneaky ploy to make irritating friends ride in the truck bed instead of the cab.
Higgins. I am offended. There's a hint of "professionalism" in my video too. Haven't figured out exactly which part, but it's in there somewhere. I think it's the FBI Do Not Copy warning I stole off the internet.
Sure wish I caught film of the Jackrabbit running across Cronk's foot with a coyote in hot persuit. Would have been priceless.
[ August 09, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 09, 2004, 09:13 PM:
Jay, please do not be offended.
You will always be the Speilberg of coyote callers to me.
I just flopped on my back and piddled in the air for you. A minor gesture but the least I could do.
I have already critiqued your ode to the Gods, your "Gone With The Wind" of predator videos and simply descended from your lofty heights to the realm of mere mortals to share my humble opinion of two very good videos with some other video fans on this board.
BTW, your FBI warning was definitely the best I have seen.
Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on August 09, 2004, 09:19 PM:
Whew! Almost thought I had a coyote Spagetti Western going. Oh, Hanna!
[ August 09, 2004, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 10, 2004, 04:31 AM:
Jay,
I still thank the good Lord that the jackrabbit of which you speak was not an alligator.
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 10, 2004, 05:00 AM:
Rich H
I also purchased the Bill Martz video. With my limited knowledge of howling, I found it full of good information.
I respect your opinion. What parts did you not agree with?
Thanks
Randy
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 11, 2004, 11:05 AM:
Well, now Rich, we all know for a fact that scent misting is a questionable tactic employed by those who suffer from cosmetic deformities and are of poor genetic upbringing. Of course, your comment about it being in Zepp's video only makes me wonder if the "misbred, hare-lipped idiot" remark wasn't more of a pre-emptive remark in allegiance to his new best friend, rather than a stand alone slam at Leonard and, God forbid, me. Then again, I'm over all that now.
Posted by Bomba (Member # 71) on August 11, 2004, 11:34 AM:
Bomba curious to know who Misbred is.
Is she member of this group?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2004, 12:52 PM:
All kidding aside, with regard to "scent mist" and how it "doesn't work".
First, the question; "work"?
what do you expect?
I truly feel sorry for those that have no idea of the purpose, and the effectiveness of misting.
Rather than wasting everybody's time, I won't bother to explain it for the umpteenth time.
And, yes, I suspect that Jh must have had something to do with the subject being included in the video, although, I admit that I have not seen it, and accept Higgy's evaluation as accurate.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by RanUtah (Member # 18) on August 11, 2004, 02:23 PM:
I hope JH wasn't being video taped anytime during the summer, isn't that against his religion? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on August 11, 2004, 02:57 PM:
Bomba,
I think that miss bred is the sheep that was refered to in other posts on this board. But like you I am not sure.
Posted by bearmanric (Member # 223) on August 11, 2004, 05:50 PM:
It is a great video. lot's of coyote's. yes john henry was doing some spring time hunting with his dog's not sure if he shot any thing it seemed odd. he showed portion's of his new video.tonight I'm going to watch the new randy anderson video. lot's of new video's coming out soon.you guy's take care. Rick
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 11, 2004, 09:22 PM:
I'll definitely buy J-H's video. The clip of his dogs mixing it up with coyotes on the den was spectacular.
Randy, Bill's video was indeed full of good stuff. It was also chock FULL of controversy baiting Martzisms. That was an objective statement. I have no agenda, pro or con, with Mr. Martz, but when ANYONE states as fact on a video sold to the public that "coyotes are brain-dead, as a matter of fact some coyote hunters fall into the same catagory" he is inviting spirited debate.
Also by stating at the very beginning of the video that most of the published literature available to coyote hunters is written by
" self-proclaimed experts with no credibility and no formal training and companys whose only interest is to sell their products by any means possible" and then ending the video with a sales pitch that consists of a detailed description of the WT and a side by side comparison with the foxpro, Bill did little for his credibility.
What was that lameness about "Higgins remove that thing from my speaker." Tyler saw that and asked what I did to piss this guy off. I told him it was not directed at us, it was just a Martz quirk. If you want to talk about the dozen other examples, we will have to start a thread just for this video. There really are a few gems that have been debated extensively in the past that Mr. Martz cites as fact. It would make an interesting thread.
Posted by bearmanric (Member # 223) on August 11, 2004, 09:55 PM:
coyote's are far from brain dead. the dog's are interesting. I have the coyote challenge it's pretty neat the coyote behavour. Rick
Posted by Bill Martz (Member # 378) on August 11, 2004, 10:18 PM:
Mr Higgins
"coyotes are brain-dead, as a matter of fact some coyote hunters fall into the same catagory". Rich, if a coyote or any other animal could structure logic (think), you would never see one. Example: If a coyote could think, the first thing it would do before aproaching a prey distress or coyote vocalization etc, would be be to formulate a plan or strategy to investigate the sound in question. This is exactly what you or any other thinking human would do. In the case of a canine, which by the way can smell in excess of parts per trillion, the first thought would be "I smell in excess of parts per trillion so all I have to do to be on the safe side is travel about a half mile downwind of the sound source at which time I would be capable of smelling everything at that sound source. And if there were any hunters at that location they could never see me which means they wouldn't be able to shoot at me." As you should know Mr. Higgins, coyotes don't operate this way because they don't have the capability to structure logic (think). I would be interested to know what your thoughts are regarding the subject of smart dogs. By the way, the Mr. Higgins in our coyote dvd is not related to you.
Bill Martz
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2004, 10:38 PM:
Gulp!
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, Mr. Bill Martz! Glad to have you on board.
In that above (explained) context, I think you have made your point. Coyotes cannot reason as defined by the scientific community, but that doesn't mean that they are not smart, and it doesn't mean they cannot learn.
Good hunting. LB (the knucklehead, remember?)
PS a lot of the "self proclaimed" experts are probably just slack jawed predator hunters. No sense in believing what they have to say, right?
[ August 11, 2004, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by keekee (Member # 367) on August 12, 2004, 12:20 AM:
I believe coyotes can think! And they do think! Other wise they would just come running to every destress sound made and they would be wiped out by now. What makes one go down wind of your calling stand? It has to think to be able to put two and two togeather and go down wind to see if there noise will tell them what there ears are hearing! Not every coyote come charging into a sound head on, well not here at least.
Plus, I hunt alot of areas that get hunted all the time. These coyotes learn that if they go running into every sound that someone is shoting at them! And it dont take long before they get call shy. They may still check out the sound but you dont know they have even been there. If there smell and sight, and ears dont all get the same responce they just go on there way.
Dont get me wrong they do some strange things sometimes But as for them not learning or being smart, I dont think so!
Kee
Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on August 12, 2004, 07:36 AM:
Good morning, Bill. Welcome. We have discussed the subject of smart dogs several times in the past and have arrived at the same conclusion that the Air Force did at the end of their two year "Super Dog" study. They determined that they could not know with certainty to what degree their "super dogs" think or to what degree their thought processes influenced their actions. I have seen charts that rank the relative intelligence of different breeds of domestic dogs. That alone would indicate the dogs ability to think. There is a long stretch between "brain-dead" and the ability to "structure logic" and I believe the coyote falls in place somewhere well along that stretch. Trappers that have to contend with coyotes that delight in digging up their traps and tripping them also agree. We will not solve that puzzle here.
Your assertion that we would never see a coyote if they could think is flawed. If your reasoning was correct there would never be traffic accidents. People don't pay attention when entering intersections, they drive recklessly and take unneccessary chances. Thinking coyotes behave the same way.
Your statement that "coyotes (dogs)don't know what a gun...is and never will" is also incorrect. Ranchers have told me that coyotes approach their operations when they are feeding their cattle and then disappear when they go to the truck and produce a gun. I have seen variations of this as have many on this board. Coyotes learn to identify a gun and it's danger to them. Sporting dogs know exactly what a gun is and it's purpose. Take a gun out of the cabinet and watch a bird dogs reaction. Carry a gun out to the truck and see the hounds come out from under the porch.
Good to have you here, Bill. You make people think.
Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on August 12, 2004, 08:46 AM:
Excuse my ignorance, could someone give me the scoop on Mark Zepp?
Thanks
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 12, 2004, 10:46 AM:
I agree with you, Dennis. Zepp may be well known, to some, but I have to admit; I've never heard of him.
Regardless of that, if he has made a quality predator hunting video, my hat is off to him.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on August 12, 2004, 02:09 PM:
Rich H.
Thank you for replying.
Just for the record. My dogs get excited and want to go hunting whether I walk out on the back porch with a rifle or a broom.
And I would bet the coyotes would disappear just as quickly from the rancher if he pulled out a shovel instead of a rifle.
Randy
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on August 12, 2004, 02:21 PM:
R.Shaw,
Your point is well taken. The coyotes in my area (Western Iowa) get shot at a lot from public roads. If I see a coyote out mousing in a field a couple of hundred yards from the road, he don't pay me much attention if I just drive on by without changing the speed of my travel. If I slow down quickly, the coyote usually takes off for home and Mother. I would call that a learned behaviour on the part of said coyote.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 12, 2004, 03:01 PM:
Higgins,
When you speak about stupid things people do because of not thinking, i.e., runnin g stoplights, etc., those acts are often as a result of thinking too much, just not about the task at hand. People start multi-tasking in their heads and pretty soon, they're distracted from the task at hand. Who's to say that the occasional stupid mistake a coyote makes isn't because his brain is mulling over something else altogether?
As far as coyotes being brain dead, I would think that a statement like that would be self-defeating for someone trying to market his e-caller as the best around. After all, if the presumed target was so stupid as to be completely void of thought, wouldn't it stand to reason that such an animal would respond with equal likelihood to any sound, regardless of quality? Most manufacturers promote their calls as being the best suited for calling those individuals that can't be duped by lesser machines or calls. After all, anyone can call a stupid pup.
Posted by Curt2u (Member # 74) on August 14, 2004, 10:14 AM:
"Coyotes are brain dead". That has to be the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet regarding coyote calling. Yes, some calling areas certainly would give one the impression no thinking is going on. We all love those spots. In my opinion, coyote intelligence can vary greatly from area to area but there is some thinking going on simple as it may be. In fact I'd have to say much more thinking than is taking place in an individual making such a blanket statement. Makes one wonder if that person has ever called coyotes before. No, the coyote is not capable of working out complex algorithms. But they are quite capable of planning out a simple strategy to approach potential prey in distress that would present less of a hazard to their well being. Even the least experienced caller knows this.
"as a matter of fact some coyote hunters fall into the same category". Didn't realize how true that was till reading the first half of this statement. LOL!
Good hunting
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 14, 2004, 12:25 PM:
I see the problem here is with the use of the word "thinking". Let's be scientific here for a minute. Humans think, animals respond. Animals don't have the capacity to think, except in Disney movies. BUT!, their response system is very capable and has evolved to the point where it almost challenges the human thought process.
Coyotes are born with "instinctual" responses. Their upbringing develops "behavorial" responses.
Their hunting success and failures develop "conditioned" responses.
And their close calls with civilization (and predator hunters) establishes their "learned" responses.
This massive "information warehouse" is stored in his brain and gives the coyote a lot of awareness and response choices. It does not equate to "thinking" but it is probably the next best thing to it.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2004, 12:33 PM:
I have seen a few of those lists of smart, (intelligent) animals. Top ten, etc. For some reason, chimps, killer whales, crows, rats, certain breeds of dog....and coyote is usually one of the smartest. Brain dead is an interesting way of describing one of the most intelligent of the animal kingdom. Makes me think the definition of "brain dead" needs a little clarification.
All kidding aside.
Bill Martz, not to put you on the spot. I'm curious; have you ever hunted coyotes, and how many have you killed? There are a number of animals that don't present nearly the challenge that coyotes, do. How could all these guys be so misinformed?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Curt2u (Member # 74) on August 14, 2004, 02:09 PM:
I guess it depends what your definition of "thinking" is. My definition is a lot broader I suppose and allows for a much more primitive process to be considered thinking. I still believe it falls in that category none the less however. Certainly not disputing your info NASA. I know you have a much deeper understanding of animal behavior than I. But my observations of coyotes and the many domestic dogs and other animals I've owned leads me to believe that they do posses the ability to "think" to some degree. Having the ability to access past experiences and use it to your advantage is limited thinking in my book. I've seen my own dogs do some problem solving that could only be explained by the dog employing some form of thinking as I define it. Just my opinion though. The debate still and will continue to rage about animals ability to think. Some animals posses other abilities that make humans look pretty inadequate. Take sight, smell, and hearing. Some use a form of sonar. We are pretty lame in that dept. Our biggest advantage is our opposing thumb. We are pretty much just smart monkeys with cars and guns.
Here are some tidbits from articles on the subject:
"For those who believe that animals are only capable of responding to a stimulus for a tangible reward, the answer is that these experiments are nothing more than elaborate survival skills. The real question is how are the elaborate tasks that humans learn and teach different from tasks that animals use to survive? "
"Anecdotal evidence suggests that dogs have a reasonably high intelligence, and scientific studies have confirmed this."
"The Border Collie has extraordinary instinct and an uncanny ability to reason."
"When it comes to testing members of a different species, the most any test can do is test what its designers think an intelligent dog should know. Right away that gets us into trouble because, although fewer and fewer people cling to the idea that dogs don't think, a lot of people still believe that dogs think—or should think—the same way we do. However, dogs perceive their worlds quite differently from humans and use their brains differently to process that data."
"Intelligence is an elusive construct. Measuring problem solving skills helps us assess the intelligence quotient or IQ of an individual. Animals, including humans, learn to solve problems through interaction with their environments. Through trial and error or observation, an intelligent individual learns to predict outcomes of his actions accurately. "
"Aristotle, for example, argued that dogs and human beings differ only in the degree to which they possess certain mental abilities. Both have emotions, but those of human beings are more complex. Both learn, remember, solve problems, and benefit from experience, but human beings do these things better."
Good hunting
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2004, 05:35 PM:
quote:
"Aristotle, for example, argued that dogs and human beings differ only in the degree to which they possess certain mental abilities. Both have emotions, but those of human beings are more complex. Both learn, remember, solve problems, and benefit from experience, but human beings do these things better."
Therfore; coyotes are "brain dead"?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 14, 2004, 07:21 PM:
Hmmmmm. Let's see. having had the opportunity in my pre-calling days to chase coyotes by every legal means in Kansas that I could afford, and that pretty much leaves the ol' door wide open, I recall an instance where we had three dog wagons bearing down on a coyote as he approached a country road. At ground zero, there was a big concrete culvert/ bridge through which a waterway ran from one section to the next. The coyote was coming south down that waterway when the first cast of four dogs was dropped on him. He immediately turned and came back over the top of the road between two trucks and down the other embankment, going out of sight of the pursuing greyhounds. While those four came to a screeching halt, wagon number two drops a second cast of four dogs on him. The first four heard the door drop, followed the sound, and took chase with the second group of four as the coyote ran up the waterway. The coyote circled up out of the basin onto the rim, made a 180 and headed back past the eight dogs in the bottom as he ran on the top. Dog wagon number three arrives on the scene, sees the melee unfolding and drops all eight of the dogs he had on board as the coyote once again crossed the road in front of us. The coyote hears the door drop, turns back into the waterway and heads back in amongst the previous eight, causing the first eight to run headlong into the second eight generating a huge amount of general confusion in the bottom of that "draw" with sixteen ramped up greyhounds looking for something to chew on. With dogs yelping, others barking, rolling around and running into and over one another, the coyote slips out the north (far) end of this cluster (oops!) and damned near makes his escape as we sit there with no more dogs. Unfortunately, he turned a fraction of a second too soon and tried to climb the slope along the waterway's edge thru a snow drift that was 'bout that much too long for coyote length legs. He got spotted, and the rest is history. Pretty damned impressive job of evading capture by sixteen guys that are bigger, faster and meaner than you are. Then again, maybe that coyote had been thru this exact same scenario enough times in its life to have developed a conditioned response. LOL
It's one thing to see a coyote respond to a call, totally duped, then in a split second, make a WAG to escape being shot. It's entirely something different to see a coyote run for its life over several miles only to find out he was headed someplace on purpose, and for a good reason. Especially when the coyote just disappears into thin air. I've seen them run three miles to bee line straight into a drain tube coming out of a pond dam. Conditioned? Wow!
Nope, I've studied animal behavior, too, and I've seen coyotes do things under the pressure of being pursued that are strongly indicative of reasoning and rationalization, albeit less extensive than what we are capable of doing. But, none the less, it's there.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 14, 2004, 07:50 PM:
5 million years ago, when early man was still on all fours and living in the trees, did he have the capacity to think? Or was he still just another "animal"?
3.6 million years later he left the trees and stood on his hind legs to survey the landscape. Still not much more than a terrestrial ape, but now he's Homo Erectus. Is that when animal instinct transitioned to thought processing? Remember, he still hadn't figured out fire or the wheel, yet. Not a whole lot of thought process evident at that stage, either.
It took Homo Erectus another 500,000 years before he finally figured out fire.
Who's to say that 500,000 years from now coyotes won't evolve into the mental equivalent of a present day Democrat?
[ August 14, 2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 14, 2004, 08:17 PM:
Cmon, NASA!!!
One minute, you're telling us that coyotes are mind numbingly stupid. The next, you insult them by suggesting that they'll devolve over the next 500K years. What?!?!? They'll get "feelings"??? LMAO
As one who professes to loving the coyote, that Democrat remark was just plain mean.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2004, 10:23 PM:
Man, a lot of material to choose from, but I'll pass. LB
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 14, 2004, 10:35 PM:
Quote, "One minute, you're telling us that coyotes are mind numbingly stupid." No, no Lance, that was my buddy BM who said that. I hold coyotes in much higher regard. I said that in 500K years they may have moved up a notch on the evolutionary scale where they are no longer responsible for their own survival. They'll become wards of society and live a tax supported existence at the expense of the higher life forms. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(edit) And by the way, I don't "love" coyotes. I understand and respect them. I admire them as a highly intelligent and cunning animal. However, I don't endow them with human characteristics. They are still just animals.
[ August 14, 2004, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 14, 2004, 11:50 PM:
quote:
And by the way, I don't "love" coyotes. I don't endow them with human characteristics. They are still just animals.
Baa yron, oh Baayron! Make him stop!
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 15, 2004, 04:32 AM:
Holy crap! I walzed right into that one.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 15, 2004, 05:47 AM:
Posted by Curt2u (Member # 74) on August 15, 2004, 07:37 AM:
Ahhh, I can see it now. 500,000 years from now when coyotes evolve into the mental equivalent of a present day Democrat, calling will be a different game. The typical stand will have a Decoy Heart with a welfare check taped to it shaking furiously and a recording of trees and bunnies being hugged playing. Brain dead Demo-Yotes converging on the stand a dozen at a time.... LOL!
edit for spelling...
[ August 15, 2004, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Curt2u ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 15, 2004, 08:03 AM:
Now ya got it! And no season, no bag limit. Yee-haw!
Posted by brad h (Member # 57) on August 15, 2004, 08:12 AM:
I would assume that by that point everyone's guns will have already been taken away.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 15, 2004, 08:26 AM:
...... and exchanged for Lithium Ion Phasers. Flat shooting within 1/1000 inch at 1500 meters with a 30 mph crosswind.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 15, 2004, 09:08 AM:
and guaranteed to "neutralize (won't use harsh words like "kill" by that time) without any chance whatsoever that the demo-yote will "feel" anything.
And if you're a demo-yote hunter that can't quite get your spit straight, just ask for help. After all, by then, we'll most certainly have some kind of taxpayer funded entitlement program to help demo-yote wannabes be all they wannabe but don't wanna actually put in the time, gain the skills, or learn from trial and failure until they get it right.
[ August 15, 2004, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 15, 2004, 10:06 AM:
OMG, that's so funny, LOL! But I really should appologize for sidetracking this thread. Not intentional, but it sure took a funny turn. OK, I'm going to go watch Zepp's video now.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 15, 2004, 10:28 AM:
They are just damned coyotes, nothing more. Hell, Ive had a harder time catching a mouse thats been driving my wife nuts running around in our house. He's a smart sonofagun to. He has the uncanny ability to lick the peanut butter off the trip pan several times without getting his neck out of joint.Ive tried various baits, intricate positioning of the trap, nothing can catch this intellectual marvel of a rodent! Funny how smart they are, I suppose he will start leaving me notes soon. Hell, I think I'll calm my frazzled nerves and just go out and call a coyote in the morning....maybe giving me the contemplation I need to catch that little geniusus of a mouse.....he's almost human.
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on August 15, 2004, 11:15 AM:
Vic,
Put a little peanut butter or sharp cheddar cheese in the middle of a glue trap. Those things tend to put the frustration back on the mouse.
If you want even more fun, give the mouse, trap and all to the cats. Just don't tell your wife who suggested it!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 15, 2004, 12:43 PM:
Slightly chewed bubblegum pressed well into the pan....or DeCon.
Jesus, if coyotes are only as smart as a Democrat, Krusty would have his 300 animal entry fee, by now.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on August 15, 2004, 01:53 PM:
Can somebody tell me if the new Martz Video comes with $500.00 HI-FI Stereo Speakers, a luggage carrier with wheels, a 2 mile remote, and weighs in around 25 lbs?????
As always, a very special "Hello" to my good friend Bill Martz.
Take care.
PS: The only dumb animal I know of, is an "Airdork"
Edited for dumb animal clarity.
[ August 15, 2004, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: bucksnort ]
Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on August 15, 2004, 01:58 PM:
Someone want to borrow me their copy of BM's tape? I'd love to see it but I won't give a dime to BM by buying it.
And, for the record, I believe that coyotes are at least as smart as BM.
Randy
[ August 15, 2004, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Randy Buker ]
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 15, 2004, 03:50 PM:
Buker, check your e:mail.
I just finished the Zepp video. A well made one, professional quality. Mark has a casual, unassuming style, and doesn't insult your intelligence with his presentation. Kinda reminds you of Byron's style. Lots of hand calling scenes showing different peoples styles. Some clips from J-H's videos, an acknowledgement to Victor, and more recognition to other predator calling products than to his own. Oh, and there's NO badmouthing of FP in this video either, LOL.
Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on August 15, 2004, 04:01 PM:
Thanks NASA
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on August 15, 2004, 05:03 PM:
"Krusty would have his 300..."
Well they are definitely smarter than I am, already.
Krusty 
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