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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 26, 2005, 01:32 PM:
 
Andy: I read on the darkside, you were down this way for a bar hunt,with a premier southwest guide/outfitter we all know:) Lets hear about it!
Did you ride the ridges hither and yon, trailing the dulcet tones of bawling or squealing hairdales? Tree anything? Kill anything..details man, details!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 26, 2005, 04:34 PM:
 
Vic,
Yeah, we went bear hunting. No kill this time. Did see alot of good country. I like those rugged mountains. Makes the Rockys where I used to elk hunt look like a golf course.

We did have some races. We did have some excitement. I never got to see one in a tree. But we did have one ground bayed. Due to my being out of shape and a back that wont let me walk on level ground, let alone crawl up that stuff, I was holding the horses while Tommy and his brother went up for a look. Quick draw Teskey was at it again. He always seems to end up standing where a bear intends to run. Didnt get him this time though.

One other race in particular had great promise. Only problem was the bear went into some gnarly country that he and the dogs could cover ground quickly and a man on a horse could only crawl at a snails pace. Even Teskey, aka The Man From Snowy River, couldnt come close to keeping pace in that counrty. Rough stuff, thats for sure.

But, it was a different experience than this ole hillbilly has ever seen. Im glad I did it. We sure dont have stuff like that around here.

Thanks for askin though!!

Andy

[ September 26, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by catskin (Member # 51) on September 26, 2005, 07:09 PM:
 
As a typical novice in the act of riding horses (I always seem to end up on my back gasping for air to refill my lungs!) I can only imagine chasing dogs on horseback in that country and surviving to tell about it. I envy the experience you must have had riding that country chasin a bear.

Ken
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 26, 2005, 07:37 PM:
 
It was an experience. I havent rode a horse in several years, but grew up on one, like every day, til I was old enough to fight back, around age 22 or so. I grew up on a pretty big ranch, in Missouri standards. It was like riding a bike in that respect. I didnt have problems there.

My back did hamper me quite a bit. I had to take it easy and take some breaks. Those steel rods dont give much.

As for the country, you gotta do it to appreciate it. Tommy also made me a believer in barefoot horses. I know he has been pushing that alot and I was a little skeptical, although I knew there was something to it or he wouldnt be pushing it. I have had a horse fall with me on slick rock on more than one occaision. Once broke my right ankle in three places.

We put those horses in some of the gawd awfullest crap I have ever seen. I let Tommy go first the first day. My butt was puckered on several occaisions. But they surely got more grip, alot more, thats no doubt. And they were conditioned to where the jagged broken rock didnt hurt them either. I would have never thought of putting a shod horse in some of those places.

The third day, JD and I were on our own following the hounds. I had some more confidence then. That was JDs first day riding that country and he probably thought I was nuts at times, but he did really well and was up and running in no time flat. He did great and I think he enjoyed that part of it as well.

Yeah, it was quite the experience. I always wanted to do that. Honestly for me, a bear has never been that high on my list of "to kills". That would have been a bonus. The experience and the rides in those gawd forsaken mountains were a thrill.

Andy
 

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Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on September 26, 2005, 09:14 PM:
 
If I can add a bit to your comment on the barefooting Andy... I have noticed with my gelding that he's also safer to ride in the rocks barefoot because he is a bit more tender so he slows down and picks his way, making him more careful. Shod, he acts like like he's invinceable, and barrels through. Loren.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 26, 2005, 09:59 PM:
 
I noticed that as well. I didnt see it as tender. I saw it more as being able to feel their feet and much more willing to take their time to place each foot. Not nearly as much prancing and stumbling.

And in the country we were in, a stumble could have ruined your day, week, year, life.....

There were a couple of places where if a shod horse made a bad choice and stumbled, you may not land for good for a good quarter mile or so.

Im sold on it. I know that. Dr. Tomas Teskey knows things. No doubt.

Andy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 26, 2005, 10:09 PM:
 
Yeah, the barefoot crowd is still on the fringe Andy, they buy it....most horseman don't. I took my gelding up lion hunting last year with Bruce, and failed to have him shod prior to going....bad mistake. Given the rough country, and condition of the footing, I lamed him up pretty good, ground his front feet down like you took a rasp to them.
Barefeet makes sense if it's just the animal carrying its own weight, but add 300 pounds of rider and tack, and there are different dynamics going on there. I'll continue to put steel on my horses feet thank you, and forego not hunting the next day becasue my pony is sore footed or worse, lame.
There are many products out now to give the shoes "grip" for anyone riding in slick rock, if thats a concern. Put that barefoot horse up in country that has that abrasive sandstone and long stretches of crumbling granite, and come morning, you'll be wearing out boot leather rather than riding that hayburner.
I alway figured, if the small contingent of the barefoot crowd was right.....how can so many millions that believe otherwise, be wrong? But, just like hunting, there are different factions that think "their" way is the best:)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 26, 2005, 10:56 PM:
 
Maybe because it's cheaper?

Seems like them Apaches liked the appaloosa up in the 'cows because of their bigger feet and they had no means to shod their ponies; like three per rider.

But, seems like a lame mount is more trouble than he is worth? I don't like to trust my luck to a dumb horse with his head up his ass, under certain conditions, as described.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 27, 2005, 04:59 AM:
 
Well, Im certainly no expert to be debating this, but I can tell you this. Failing to shoe your horse and riding him on a lion hunt with Bruce and him coming up lame is hardly an example of doing it properly. That was a bonehead, poor planned mistake, at best.

I talked to Tom at length, as I was impressed with it. I do know enough about horses and have enough common sense to know this. The horses feet have to be conditioned. You cant just forget to shoe them and take off through the 'cows, hell yes they will come back lame.

From the way I understand it, and what makes commmon sense is your horse needs to be trimmed correctly first. That means leaving the arch support in the foot, not flat like it would have been with just forgetting to shoe it. The foot would have no flex. You also would need to trim the edges around it to keep them from chipping and cracking. And the most important part would be to condition your horse first.

A young horse that has never been shod will do better than a 10 yr old that has always been shod. No doubt. But, with time and conditioning, the older foot can be brought back. I was talking with Tom about conditioning. We were riding across a pasture with mostly hard dirt and a few rocks. He said that was a prime example of where he would want his horses to run all the time, and ride in when conditioning a damaged foot from being shod. Then gradually riding them in rougher, rockier ground. And from what I understand, were not talking years here. More like weeks for a younger horse and months for older ones. Depending on how damaged the foot is. But sure as hell not leave the shoes off, foot flat, untrimmed and take off through the mountains. Thats nuts.

Vic, your a smart man. If you see one of them little kids runnin around that desert and up on the rocks barefoot at 10 yrs old. You reckon I can come down there and peel my shoes off and follow him around with my soft old white feet rigth off the bat? Hell no. Its the same principal.

Like I said, I hadnt been on a horse in years, but my family is made totally of ranchers, Im the first one out, maybe forever. And I grew up on horses. I was very impressed. I rode one of JHs horses hard. He was conditioned, nothing like Tom and Alans, you could still see the nail marks working out, but I could tell he had been working with him. I am a big boy myself and had a saddle bag and a backpack hangin off my horn and a big ass 500 SW hangin on my side. That horse never showed sign of lame during the week. Toms horses that they use on the ranch everyday hadnt been shod in years. Those were a fine pair of mares btw. And those mares are rode in that terrain on a daily basis. Seems like they would come up lame, no? We put those horses in places Im positive we would have had the ass under the horse on, if it stayed on its feet, with steel on. I wouldnt know of any of the new materials. When I ran from the ranch life, there was only one shoe material, steel.

Yeah Vic, they are on the fringe. But I really think its a fringe that is going to grow big. There are alot of thick skulls, such as yours, to be penetrated first. I say that because of your own comment. That made no sense at all, which really surprised me coming from a man of your intelligence. You forgot to shoe your horse and took him on a lion hunt and he came up lame. Thats not working a horse to be ridden barefoot my friend. That is utter Bravo Sierra. And a very irresponsible comment.

Andy

I forgot, Leonard, its not the price, but the horses health. Lets try the common sense thing again. As you get older, do your ankle and knee and hip joints get to aching more and more from abuse? How do you think that would have been if you wore steel shoes all your life?

As I said, Im no expert, but from what I saw firsthand and asked questions and absorbed, it made perfect sense to me. A horse is going to have far less problems with a cushion than with steel feet.

I dont know how much you have rode a horse, but I could damn sure tell the difference in the way the horses handled the terrain. They could actually feel their feet, the way they were intended to and placed them properly and there was no tripping or sliding. Not like a shod horse that tends to, as Loren said, plow on through and stumble and slip all over.

Im not up on this enough to debate much further. Ill see if I cant get ahold the Tom and get him to come on for a while. If your willing to open your ears and listen, you may just learn something.....

[ September 27, 2005, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 27, 2005, 07:32 AM:
 
This is a subject that has perplexed me for years. The horse was domesticated several thousands of years ago, yet metal shoes are a relatively recent innovation. Cavalry played a leading role war from the time of the Sumerians. It would seem that the professional military minds would stay on the cutting edge of practicality and efficiency. Yet the U.S. Cavalry considered the Comanches to be the finest lght cavalry in the world. The Nez Perce were masters of horse husbandry, developing the Appaloosa, which was one of the most prized breeds of the time. None of the ****** tribes shod their horses and reportedly were able to get more mileage from their barefeet than whites could from their shod horses.
I still don't understand.
Keeping a horse well shod is a constant and expensive chore and I can add silly to the list if it actually isn't neccessary.
I still don't understand.
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 27, 2005, 07:38 AM:
 
It's a great theory Andy, but for most folks it will never work and never catch on. I agree that horses that are raised in the rocks and "conditioned" to it have tougher feet. I also grew up on a ranch and it was a dirty tough rocky S.O.B. and my dad never shod nothing. But... We also had 80 to 100 head of saddle horses, so when one limped a little he got kicked out to heal up and you had plenty of others to ride. But for most folks in todays world it will never work, and I'm a prime example. My horse pasture is right here at the house, and there isn't hardly a rock in it, and most peoples horse pastures and stalls are that way, so if I were to want to take off Elk hunting tommorrow would I dare not shoe my horses? If I didn't shoe them, I'd cripple them in a day. There's not a doubt. And the vast majority are the same as me. I don't have rough stuff in my back yard to get them used to the rocks and I sure don't have the time to haul them to the mountains every week. I will point out that I hate having my horses shod, and I do it as sparingly as possible. I shoe my own, so cost isn't the objective, and I agree with many of the theories of not shoeing and keeping a big healthy foot on my horses, and thats fine in the flats and roping arenas I go to, but if I were to have to head to the rocks tommorrow, my horses aren't used to it and I would have to slap some iron on them or risk bruising one. I think that the vast majority of people are the same as me, and so that is why not shoeing in rough country will never work in most cases. If the horses are raised right there and always out in it, they will be conditioned to it. But that isn't the case for the majority.
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 27, 2005, 07:45 AM:
 
Same thing for you Rich,
If one limped around the ******* , they ate him and rode a different one. Shoeing became a necessary evil due to the way most people keep their horses. In a stall or small pen, and their feet get soft. And it all depended on how much you were willing to invest in horses. If you only have one, and he limps, you are screwed. If you have 20 and one limps, you just saddle something else. By the way, do you know why the Appalosa was so prized by the native americans?

1. It was the only type of horse that they could catch, while they were afoot.

2. If you rode an App you were damn sure mad and ready to kill someone by the time you got to the battle.

[ September 27, 2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 27, 2005, 07:58 AM:
 
LOL
I owned an Appy for a time, pretty thing, perfect blanket. Have to admit, she was a real hammerhead.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on September 27, 2005, 09:25 AM:
 
How often or what are the actual chances of having one slip or slide off the edge?

Quite a few years ago, I was on a packin elk hunt in ID and that really made me wonder. Ahead of me, I was watching the outfitters horse slipping and sliding on a narrow rocky trail over one hell of a drop off. I "casually" mentioned to the outfitter that it might be a hell of alot safer to dismount and walk the horses. He just looked back at me and smiled and said, "Hell Boy, just hang on. That horse doesn't want to fall any more than you do.!" That made me feel much better.

Dennis

[ September 27, 2005, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 27, 2005, 10:13 AM:
 
LOL Cal,
I was just getting ready to say the same thing about catching and ridin appys for the ******* . Thats a good old joke....

I dont claim to be an expert in the unshod field. I do however claim to have alot of respect for the man that explained it to me and saw first hand how it worked for us. I was impressed.

You said something there that is exactly right. The conditioning and being on the terrain all the time makes all the difference, the way I understand it.

That was the first time I had ever rode a barefoot horse, other than a rank colt that we wanted sored up. But, we never thought of not shoeign a horse. Thats just what you did. This really intrests me. I wish to hell I would have known this many moons ago. I would have tried it when I had the horses and acerage available if nothing else to save myself some back breaking work of puttin shoes on the damned things.

I got a call in. Im anxious to hear how this all comes together, if I can get the man with the plan on here.

Andy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 27, 2005, 07:38 PM:
 
Yeah, I may be thick skulled, but it seems as though yours is paper thin my friend:)
And, as a point of fact, I should have described the hunt, it was not riding cross country thru the Chirichauas, if thats what you meant by the "cows", never heard of them before?
I was in the Galuro mts, and rode only the two track road, for some miles, but never any thru hill and dale, kind of shit.
Conditioning is a good part of it,if they live in rough stuff, indeed the foot and hoof wall will toughen up. Proper trimming is necessary in shod horses to, not just for the barefoot crowd. If the navicular joints and coffin bone aren't in proper set,and the frog able to contact the ground, as well as the horse being able to set its foot down heel first, even a shod horse can lame up.
I would imagine you could ask any reputable big game outfitter, that uses horses or mules to chase bear or lion, and you'll be hard pressed to come up with one that thinks barefootin' is the way to go. As Cal implied, most cattleman shoe their stock also, Im sure there are some that follow the barefoot crowd, but not many I bet?
It's an interesting concept I suppose, if that kind of thing stimulates your interest. There is a strong contingent that loves to bandy about the "natural" horse concept. My opinion is nothing we do with a horse is natural to them. Just about every movement we require them to perform, is far from natural for them. Movements like backing up, changing leads,bending at the poll for proper head set,lateral flexion for softness,side passing,holding a bit in their mouth, having a saddle on their back, facing up to objects they would normally run from....none of it is "natural" for the horse. Horses are prey animals, big, goofy, herbivores, that naturally want to graze,sleep and be lazy.
To long a post, and I apologize, but hey, Im thick headed,and full of bravo sierra:)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 27, 2005, 08:25 PM:
 
That big galoot down in McNeal always says: "the 'cows", Vic. How come you don't know that?

I don't know about these retro ideas, though? How can so many people been doing something wrong for so long?

I used to work with someone that kept a mare in a stable down by the riverbed. Barefoot. Mostly on sand, but still needed routine blacksmith service on her hooves.

I still say, if a trail is bare rock and slippery, I'm going to dismount and lead that nag across. They may not want to fall any more than I do, but I have seen a few that do not seem to have a clue as to how far is down.

Man, you guys should have watched Higgins work with Bruce's horse, last year! Three other men couldn't get him in the damned trailer, but Rich did. Impressive.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 27, 2005, 09:50 PM:
 
Some interesting, and an opposing view to the barefoot clique:
http://web.cetlink.net/~farrier/fads.htm
 

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Posted by Jack Roberts (Member # 13) on September 27, 2005, 10:30 PM:
 
This horse stuff is way too complicated for me. I would not trade one dirt bike for a hundred horses.

Jack
 

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Posted by catskin (Member # 51) on September 27, 2005, 10:50 PM:
 
and here's a supporting view, so what?
http://www.barefoothorse.com/

It's starting to sound like the 17 centerfires verses the 25-06 crowd isn't it.

I'm with Jack here, I've yet to have a bike or sled go out of it's way to wipe me off on a pondorosa.

[ September 27, 2005, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: catskin ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 27, 2005, 11:14 PM:
 
You mean I just wasted an hour on that stuff, including the revenge of the cult?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 06:00 AM:
 
Drag up all the blogs and think what you want Victor. Truth is, you have never tried it, your pissed off at someone that has and you dont have a clue what your talking about. For god sakes, you took a barefoot horse, that you forgot to shoe, lion hunting. That outta tell ya something. LOL.

Yeah, I called em 'cows. Probably because I didnt feel like looking up how to spell the correct name. No different than some of the goofy bastards that say "yote" because they are too lazy to look up how to spell "coyote".

Something else about this strikes me funny Vic. You and I have had some arguments in the past, imagine that. In the past, I was the the one that was stating written facts and opinions, and you were the one saying I was full of BS because I had no real world experience. Remember that? Funny how things change. You have never tried it, its obvious been around it even less than I have, yet your quite the expert on it. I challenge you to take a ride with Tomas and listen to him for a day, or even a half day. If he will have you. Then maybe, just maybe, you might get a little real world experience, to couple with your intelligence and you can make an informed decision. Not one formed out of BS and hatred.

Im not going to even touch the natural movement thing. Thats a whole other can of worms and you or I either one know enough to make informed posts without taking a crash course from a google blog of choice, kinda like you did before your last post.

As for outfitters and cattlemen, the way they do things now, its not practical. Cal hit it on the head. The horse has to be conditioned. Period. And that takes alot more time and different settings for the animal than stalls and lots. And unless they are willing to change their practices, at least a bit, and put some effort forth, it wont work. But, with some education and small changes it could. Im sure you couldnt have talked a "reputable" outfitter into letting you ride your horse that you forgot to shoe on the lion hunt. Im sure a "reputable" outfitter would have seen to it that you had another mount ready. Am I not right? I know, I know, he wasnt outfitting you, surely not, but since it was his gig, it would seem that he would have made sure that a good friend such as yourself would have been mounted properly, wouldnt he? I sure has hell wouldnt send one of my friends that I invited to hunt with me out on a four wheeler with one flat or four bald tires, even if he brought it.

I just get a kick out of some of this stuff. Some people in particular could say that ketchup is good. And a good portion of other people would make a stand and write page after page of how awful and stupid it is to use ketchup (better check Vic, I think there may be more than one spelling for it and you might have some more grounds here). And it would have nothing to do with ketchup. It only has to do with people that refuse to have common ground with people that they deeply hate. And they definitly refuse to listen to anything that may be a little different, or for god sakes try it, if the other camp thought of it. Its ignorance is what it is. Sounds alot like Capitol Hill.

This thread started as a smart ass remark from you Vic. You were hoping I would come back with alot of negative things to say. Dont say you werent. Instead, I had some postive things to say about the good time I had and something that really intrigued me, because it was totally opposite of anything I had ever seen and surely opposite of how I was raised. Since you couldnt get the ammo you wanted, you had to fire off on something. Maybe a little frustration there Vic?

Like I said, if you got the willingness to let some light in that bonehead of yours, and IF Tomas would have you, I would be willing to bet, whether you would be willing to admit it or not (seems like you have a hard time with not being right), you may actually have a different view of it. But, for some reason, that whole area down there is such a "Peyton Place", who the hell know what the relationship is between you and Tomas is. He may be a part of the Ketchup Party, god wouldnt that be awful.

Its a sad thing. There is no secret that there are two boards here that both have good qualities. Over different incidents and things that have happened in the past, people from one board are unwilling to accept people from the other board, or their views. They may try to make it look like they are accepting, but they arent. Thats what this whole thread boils down to. And the even sadder part of it is, that alot of the people werent even around and sure didnt have any stake in what formed the hatred. But, they are guilty by association. And Im not just saying that is one way. Its a two way street no doubt. There are very few, very few people that have successfully been able to bridge that gap and be both places. Its next to impossible. That truely is sad.

Anyway, this thread started off as a smart ass remark to try and start some crap about someone else. Now its turned to a horse arguement because I refused to play your game Vic. Funny thing is, neither of us are absolutely qualified to argue either way. I admitted that early on. You still havent. You continue to use practices of the masses for your basis. Not even a hint of real world. Sound familiar Vic? (hint, hmr)

Whats next?

Andy
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on September 28, 2005, 06:29 AM:
 
Is there a Cliff Note version of this thread?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 06:40 AM:
 
What are you trying to say Jay? Go ahead, you dont have to be coy....
 

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Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on September 28, 2005, 07:48 AM:
 
Leonard, you are dead on right about Rich Higgins and his handling of that horse. I for one am dang glad he was there, or we would still be eating on that horse.

Those ******* ran barefoot horses, because they didn't have shoes........simple as that.

If you don't want your horses slipping on the rocks, put "Drill Tech" on the shoes, and that is like putting them in 4 wheel drive...........no more slipping.

Take care.

Bruce A. Kennedy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 28, 2005, 09:11 AM:
 
Andy, I have owned and been around livestock since age 13 till present. I currently have four horses now, three of which havent been shod in over three years. My gelding usually runs barefoot, unless like now, Im training him or riding him regularly. Ive trained three different horses Ive owned from green colts to fairly decent saddle animals. This doesn't make me an expert by any means, but paints a different picture than what you seem to have of me doesn't it, just wanted to qualify my experience.
Yeah, this thread got off the point I guess,christ, we have BB guns vs big guns, mouth calls vs electronics,camo vs no camo, dogs no dogs......and now we even get into horses! Goes to show hunters can argue about almost anything.....what an eclectic bunch.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 09:14 AM:
 
One more thing. I re read what I wrote earlier this morning and so I dont get slammed some more for my hideous spelling and grammer, I am very tired and sore. I spent a long night in the woods with lights and guns, with several other people with lights and guns, chasing a desperate person with a gun that says he wont go back to jail.

So, I didnt proof read. Just a response. Maybe I can get some little bit of slack at least for my lack of attention to grammer and focus more on the subject at hand.

Andy
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 09:16 AM:
 
We must of have been posting at the same time.

Im good if you are. We can agree to disagree.

Subject dropped?

Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2005, 09:21 AM:
 
Andy, I really think you are not giving Vic a break. And, I don't care if you killed a bear or rode some pretty country, or what happened; it's all good.

I suspect that his jungle telegraph down in "Peyton Place" already knew the basics of your hunt and he just wanted your personal impressions. You brought up the barefoot thing, and everybody has opinions, as you know.

As to hate. You may not believe it, but Mr Carlson has a lot of class. He could probably say a few unkind things, but he never has, and I don't expect he ever will.

Most of the genuine hate seems to come from a single person, and basically, it's directed at me. I don't have a bit of a problem with folks from the dark side posting here, none. And, I don't delete seventeen caliber testimonials, either.

I'm banned at CG and PM, for a reason I am not aware of, but Moderators and Administrators from both boards continue to receive the hospitality in this "house". So, I don't know where you were going with that one, but (with all due respect) it's a bad call. (BUT, I'm a Bushie, too)

But, this barefoot movement is going to generate a lot of ink, no doubt. I say, regardless of your opinion, you are welcome to state it, and your reason. I don't know a damned thing about it, but I still have an opinion. I'm not basing it on a personal relationship.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 28, 2005, 09:34 AM:
 
We can drop it or talk about it for the next week, I hope my post didnt come off sound like an olive branch. I was laying out my experience for you, you seemed to infer that you didn't think I had enough experience to comment on horse matters, and I was clearing the air, so you understood my position.
Usually I keep my mouth shut on subjects I have little experience about, which is a whole lot of things! But firearms,shooting,hunting,horses and animals are things I know about becasue Ive been around it most of my life, so it's about the only thing I CAN comment on:) Now politics,religion, and all the rest......I try to stay mum on, no experience in any of it or give a shit about it.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 10:02 AM:
 
Leonard,
And you think Vic is giving me a break? Come on. I mentioned the barefoot thing simply because I was amazed. I guess I gotta say it again, but we were in some places that I wouldnt have put a horse, had I not just had two go before me and I wanted to get to the destination. Mainly because I had only ridden horses with steel and I know exactly what would have taken place. It was more of a side comment to avert a good bashing, and talking of positive things I had experienced instead of the negatives that Vic was hoping for. I had no intention of making this thread focus anywhere around horses or barefoot. I was doing what was asked. Giving some details. And that was one of the things that I was really impressed with. Vics the one that discredited me, and in a round about way, everyone that was around me, and got the ball rolling. I think your wrong Leonard.

I know Vics a classy guy, or at least is in person, he contacted me by email about buying a rifle and shortly after we spoke by phone. I was very impressed. I thought he was one hell of a nice guy. At the time, I knew nothing of the status of him and JH. I had watched their video and I was even a little star struck at Vic. Never talked to a real live movie maker before. I am still very impressed of the stories I hear of his prowess with a gun, caller and pistols. On the phone, email and in person, he is one of the nicest guys I have ever talked with. But on these boards, he has more than once picked apart every friggin word I have said and tried to find a way to argue about it. He likes to start shit, with certain people and if you deny that, your lying. And with my hard head as well, its not that hard to get one going with me. LOL. But, I could really care less. I refuse to kiss ass to have friends. He can be the expert hunter or horseman or whatver he wants. I can plug along with what I got and can do and be happy.

You know its funny, as I was typing this, I scrolled down to see what exactly you had said Leonard and saw that Vic had posted again. Seems he wants to make sure I know that he doesnt want to drop this, just qualify himself some more. Thats typical. Goes right along with what I had just written.

As for the hatered coming from one place, thats BS too. If thats the case, whats all the snide comments over and over by various memebers about 17s, Airedales, and other various things? Lets pull up how many cheap shots have come from this board and how many from the other.

Also Leonard, Im not real sure that you are banned from CG. I think that may be in your head or self imposed. I could be wrong, but I think I overheard something one time that you were not banned.

As for the members, I see that Frame or Cat or a few others venture over on a limited basis. But Norm and Cal are the only two off the top of my head that frequent both. Both are very nice guys and very knowlegable. Cal is so well versed in so much having to do with coyotes and everything else related, I think he could speak anywhere.

I thought maybe I would give it a shot, but it usually ends up like this.

Vic started this with a smart ass post to draw what he hoped would be negative things from me. When that failed, he took a small part of it, that like I said was just something that was new to me and impressed me, from what I tried to make a very positive and cordial response, and ran with it.

No, I didnt take it as an olive branch Vic. Dont flatter yourself. I was just willing to drop it, but Im like you, I can stick around, as long as Im allowed and toss bombs back and forth with you. I dont care. I really wish I could have contacted the man that does know more than either of us, but I must have written his number down wrong. I may try to call his brother. He may not want to get in on a bunch of crap like this anyway. Tommys a very classy guy as well.

Andy
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on September 28, 2005, 10:12 AM:
 
Andy. No coy here. I scrolled through the thread skipping every other post and got lost on something I know nothing about but nonetheless caught my interest. Then the thread started heading south. Decided I had better start from the beginning and read it all but didn't have the time at the moment.

Something that I did wonder about was if a horse (or any animal for that matter) is predominately right-hooved or left like humans are.

As far as cheap shots? I pretty much dole them out to everyone and none are meant to be mean-spirited at a personal level.

[ September 28, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Jay Nistetter ]
 

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Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on September 28, 2005, 12:13 PM:
 

quote:

---

Im sure you couldnt have talked a "reputable" outfitter into letting you ride your horse that you forgot to shoe on the lion hunt. Im sure a "reputable" outfitter would have seen to it that you had another mount ready. Am I not right? I know, I know, he wasnt outfitting you, surely not, but since it was his gig, it would seem that he would have made sure that a good friend such as yourself would have been mounted properly, wouldnt he? I sure has hell wouldnt send one of my friends that I invited to hunt with me out on a four wheeler with one flat or four bald tires, even if he brought it.

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Hey Andy, I do not appreciate your remarks above. So, what is your beef with me??????

Bruce A. Kennedy
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 12:37 PM:
 
No beef. Dont even know you Bruce. No more than you know me.

That was not a shot at you. That was just turning tables as the starter of this whole stupid mess had insinuted about me having a "premeir southwest guide/outfitter" and later talking that a "retputable outfitter" wouldnt have had us on barefoot horses.

I can see how you may have taken it that way, now. But it was nothing aimed at you.

You can thank Vic for that. He was the one that started that shit as well.

Andy

[ September 28, 2005, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2005, 01:15 PM:
 
Andy, really, this is (will not be) a hostile remark or a cheap shot, in any way. But. You have been quarreling with a lot of people, of late; over there. As many people have observed, it takes (at least) two people to conduct a cat fight. So, you are not (exactly) letting anything slide.

BTW, Tesky is certainly welcome to contribute, if he has a mind. I don't know of anybody that has a beef with him, certainly not Vic?

As I read (your) comments about a reputable outfitter, I also took it as a dig at Bruce, although you are saying that it was not intended as such? That could be the limitations of the medium, as we are all aware. Vic's initial terms that he used were sarcastic, in my view, but not enough to put a burr under your saddle.

Did you know, Vic has been a pot stirrer for a long time? In fact, it was because he was arguing with me on another board, years ago ; that John Henry jumped in to defend his partner. That discusion got mean, and he never got over it. My version is that Vic started it. But, at the time, we were going round and round, hammer and tong. Not anymore, no grudge, we are good friends. No so with JH. Bet you didn't know that?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 01:46 PM:
 
Your right Leonard. I havent let alot slide lately. Im tired of letting stuff slide. Im standing up for myself. I am arguing for what I thinks right. Im tired of being told whats right by alot of self proclaimed internet heros, only to find out they know no more, alot of times less, than I do. I sat quietly and bit my tounge while some of these dipshits shot off their mouths for years. So if I have a bad reputation, so be it. I talk enough in private with friends that I have made to know that they dont hold it against me. Thats all that matters to me.

See the politically correct thing to do would have been for piss ant me to take hero Vics ribbing and set quietly and lurk. Thats not going to happen. Then he got defensive and is still looking for some way to win his battle that he started.

As for Bruce, I admitted I could see where that didnt sound just right. If he takes offence, I apologize. That was not the intent. But I wont kiss his ass either, if thats what hes after.

Another thing with arguing, alot of it was over politics, and if I remember correctly, you were right there at my hip for a while, at least liking it that I was standing up for what I believed in, in that arena. I have had a couple of spats with others over there as well that I dont care for. Thats a whole nother story.

Ive noticed lately that its almost like you gotta choose sides. Either here or there. Thats nuts. There is enough talent and brains on both sides to be something great. Too bad egos and big heads wont let that happen.

Yeah, I know that Vic is a shit disturber. It took me a while to figure that out, partly because at first, I didnt know who he was on the boards, since he wont use his name anywhere and tends to change from time to time.

No I didnt know what happened between you and JH. JH never told me alot of anything, one way or the other, about you. He does talk of Vic, in good ways. Never heard him say a bad word about Vic. Never.

Ill tell you something else. As far as listening goes, Cal Taylor gets my respect more than anyone. This is not ass kissing, but my observation over the years. Cal know his stuff. No matter if its ADC work, trapping fur, calling fur, big game hunting, ranch work, horses, ect.... he is spot on, time after time. And he conducts himself well. Other than some playful jabs at various people once in a while, hes mostly business and accurate. I actually envy Cal. I wish things in my life would have worked out where I could have done things the way he has. I really respect Cal.

Leonard, you can say or do what you want. Show me where Vic cut me any slack or let anything slide? See, its like a double standard. He shouldnt have started this bullshit thread to start with. He was just fishing for a good bashing opportunity.

Andy

Edit: I found Toms number. Im not calling him now though. This thread not only got away from its orgininal intent, but also away from the barefoot intent. I dont think he would want anything to do with it now and I dont even want him to get his fingers dirty with this BS. Hes too good of a man for that.

[ September 28, 2005, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by bucksnort (Member # 202) on September 28, 2005, 03:20 PM:
 
Andy, NO, I am not a Guide and Outfitter, and you don't know what you are talking about. Vic called it a lion hunt, but it was no such thing. I had a new horse that I wanted to ride, just see how he was in the woods. I talked to Vic, and since he was going to the Predator Callers camp out, we decided to go two days early. His colt had never been in the woods and he wanted to see how he would do.

Vic told me the colt was not shod, and so we decided to make a short run up a road. We stayed in the road and was back in camp in 1 1/2 hours. Yes, I had two dogs with me, but only to get them out as well. We broke camp and headed to the Predator Callers camp.

If I have a friend that shows up in my camp, and I think he has a gimpy horse, I will ask, not tell him he has a gimpy horse.........that is his business, not mine. If somebody wants to ride a Shetland Pony, that is their business, not mine. Now, if I was being paid for a hunt, and somebody brought a gimpy horse, or a horse not shod, then I would talk to them and tell them what I think.

If you want to buy this notion of riding barefoot horses, then have at it. My horses are shod every 7 weeks, right on schedule. I am on my 15th and 16th horses right now. All of them have been ridden in the mountains. Not one single horse has ever come up gimpy, not one. They will be shod again in 3 weeks, and "Drill Tech" will be on their shoes, as that is a big safety factor in the conditions we endure. My horses are well fed, grained, and in condition. They are wormed on a regular basis and vacinations up to date.

My dogs are fed the best feed money can buy, and you will never see a worm hanging out of their butt!

Every night, when I come in from a hunt, I go over my dogs and horses with a fine tooth comb, to ensure all is well. Should I find a problem, I rest that animal. I try to rotate my horses on a daily basis, and my dogs are not run more than two days without a day's rest. If they make a hard run on day one, then we will rest the second day.

Vic is a very good friend of mine, and when Vic speaks, I listen to every word, because I know I am going to learn something.

Andy, I don't know what your problem is, nor do I want to know, but you seem to have a big burr under your blanket. Maybe you should take a walk in the woods; find a nice shady log, and sit and have a long talk with yourself. This post is not being critical or a shot at you, but just trying to tell you who/what I am......nothing more.

Bruce A. Kennedy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 28, 2005, 03:49 PM:
 
Andy; I was fishing to see if you killed a bear,and prefaced it with a little ribbing,which I read again, and for the life of me, can't see any real nastiness, unless I scratched a scab I didn't know was there?
You brought up the barefoot discussion,not me, I only disagreed,as well as a few others here that own and ride horses. My opinion was not to be presumed right, but to rightly state my thoughts on the subject.
You stated that neither you nor I had the experience to make any comment on the subject,and indeed you may not, but I do,and wanted to qualify my opinion with my history of experience.
From there, you ran with it,throwing every sucker punch you could muster. Im not one of the newbies that you try to rough up over on your side of town Andy. Ive seen your handy work over there,so don't play the victim over here. If you bring up a topic I know something about, and I happen to disagree, more than likely I'll voice it.
As for Dr Tesky,no, probably not a good idea to bring him into this conversation. We didn't ask about the new technique,you brought it up,I/we made comment, so it would be a dull choir for him to preach to. Kind of like having Jimmy Swaggart attend an athiest convention. Dr Tesky is a nice fella,he's done some vet work for me,and we have had casual conversation a time or two, not sure why you attempted to pit us against each other?
Ive never hunted with him Andy, or know him well enough to hold him in any particular regard concerning his views on any particular subject,so no....he might not "have me along" on a hunt, nor I him, We just don't know each other well enough. I presume your mention of that was to somehow put me down a notch, although Im not clear as to how?
Anyway.....Im out of gas on this one,I think you need to get a grip,no one is going to ban you, or name call;maybe disagree, but your free to stay and slug it out.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2005, 04:00 PM:
 
Hell no, Andy. Nobody's getting banned around here. In fact, I sort of like your spunk, so don't think you have to get back where you belong, or some such?

I just think you are being a little too sensitive on a couple issues. And, if I happen to agree with one man's position, I'm not "taking sides". See, I don't know anything about the barefoot issue, I'm only thinking of the millions of people that think otherwise.

Good hunting. LB

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 04:12 PM:
 
There you have it. Read back. Vic, I dont know what YOUR problem is. Your a great guy, other than on forums. I brought it up, for the umpteenth time, because it intrigued me. Nothing else. You ran with it. Pushed it. Because you couldnt get a rise out of anything else. Even in your first paragraph of your last post you couldnt help yourself but to dig a little deeper. Maybe you cant help it?

My intention was in no way to pit you against Tom. I thought maybe that if you heard and saw what I did, maybe, just maybe a little light could be shed and you may understand. I believe that you know a little about horses. But I dont believe you have any idea about the real nuts and bolts of what Tommy is trying to do. I didnt imply that Tommy wouldnt have you. I just didnt want to speak for him or set him up to do something without his permission. Like he told me, most people you can talk to til your blue in the face, but they will understand alot more if they see it. Both the trimming and riding.

As for slappin around newbies, yeah, Ive done a bit of it. You havent? Bullshit. Your as bad as anyone to jump on any subject you see that you can slap someone around with your wealth of knowlege.

Bruce, think what you want, I could care less. You mean nothing to me, to put it bluntly. I didnt know you before, or now and dont care what you think or say. Vic is the one that said he went on a lion hunt with you in some mountains somewhere, not me.

Vic, like I said, I still got alot of respect for you. I think everything I have ever been told about you are true. Thats awesome to say the least. But its mighty hard to command respect when you give none. I got a gut full of nothing but smart remarks and lack of respect in return. You must also hold very high feelings of yourself.

Leonard, Ill drop it. Let the boys get in their last punches. They gotta do that to save face. Ill stick around, but probably go back to lurk mode again. This is a good site. Too bad some of the folks got a big ass chip on their shoulder.

Good Day
Andy

[ September 28, 2005, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 28, 2005, 06:12 PM:
 
Andy, your right, this is a great site, the best im my opinion. I don't know of another site where so many, with so much experience and knowledge exists but right here at Leonards place. I will disagree(one last time) about big ass chips on shoulders, Ive not seen that displayed on this board? There are just to many savvy guys,with experience and knowledge about so many things, that if a guy tries to blow smoke, he's gonna get called on it. No one reigns supreme here,hell we have guys like ole Danny that have been doing this stuff as long as you and I have been alive!(big smiley face here Danny)
On a personal note,and take this literally like I was looking at you eye to eye, so as not to be confused with goading you ok. You owe me absolutely no respect, just as I owe you none. We only know each other thru this medium and one breif face to face meeting. Respect is earned, not given, it takes a long relationship and knowledge of a man to either give respect to him, or recieve it from him,you and I don't know each other well enough to do either.
I trust you'll stick around if you choose,and hope to see you contribute. Take no offense if I disagree with you, and I will take none if you disagree with me. Be a mighty boring damned place if all we did was nod our heads in agreement at every conversation that takes place here don't you think?
See you around the next thread, whatever it might be, hell, we might even be on the same page........or not:)
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 28, 2005, 08:06 PM:
 
Good enough. No respect given, none expected. I like it better that way anyhow.

Oh, and I see you were trying to get in one more shot there. I wasnt blowing smoke. You asked and I answered. I didnt lie. I didnt blow smoke. You asked, I answered, it wasnt the answer you wanted and it went south from there.

I dont know why anyone is still talking about horses. That subject left the building long ago it appears to me.....

I must disagree with you one more time as well. Its about respect. I dont think your definition is quite detailed enough. With the age of boards like this and email, you CAN develope respect for someones opinions and statements. Thats my opinion anyway. Kinda like I used to respect yours....

Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2005, 08:16 PM:
 
You guys need to work on your olive branches.

(just a liter bit)
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 28, 2005, 08:44 PM:
 
Andy, again, take what I said literal, I meant nothing about horses, or getting in some kind of precieved "shot"? If I shoot, you'll know it ok? I was speaking in general terms, about general subjects that arise here, nothing more.
Your reading something into, whats just not there. We are so close to being on the same page, I can feel it.
Ive picked this post apart word by word, tried to be as straight forward and to the point as I can. I trust the only response I will see from you is "sounds good to me".
There Leonard, my olive branch has been laid,and Im sincere....thats all I can do.

[ September 28, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2005, 09:15 PM:
 
Very good, too. Thanks

(****** *** **** ******)

[ September 29, 2005, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 04:05 AM:
 
Ok, heres my branch too. Good Enough.

(**** *** *** *** ******)

(Not worded verbatim as you wanted, but that is going to have to do)

Now we can argue in code....

Andy

[ September 29, 2005, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 04:31 AM:
 
Leonard,
Does this mean, after what you said in an earlier post, that we are all going to be good friends now and later on when someone asks we can all say it was Victors fault?

(That was a joke. Not to be taken literal by anyone. It was a weak attempt by me, at best, to bring some sort of light humor into the end of this whole thing. Any feelings that may have been hurt or upset would be purely by accident and this disclaimer can also be used as an apology.)

Maybe I outta put that on my signature line?

Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2005, 07:39 AM:
 
Yes, exactly. We can, and should blame Victor.

Maybe you didn't see the little bitchy dig that Vic put up in his Olive Branch? There, in the above post, I told him that I appreciated his effort, except for that one thing, and he went and edited it for us, which really was a nice gesture. So, that isn't code in the parentheses, it's just my (supposedly) humorous edit.

And, yes, it is entirely possible that the two of you will become friends. For example: at one time, Higgins and Carlson used to be at odds. Higgins and Huber used to be at odds. I like to think I helped repair those relationships, at least a bit. There's hope.

Good hunting. LB

edit: hope for all, except me and, you know who.

[ September 29, 2005, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 08:20 AM:
 
Yeah, I saw the little "******" gig. I was thinking of what I wanted to do, but by the time I did, he changed it. So, I went to code.

Have a good day. Hopefully better than yesterday.

Andy

[ September 29, 2005, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 29, 2005, 10:58 AM:
 
Leonard...The Peace Maker .

When I was in high school, I was getting into fist fights with the local bullies. End result, they, ie;[School Administration]. Would "stick" the two hooligans into the "Cooler Room". A small 6'x6' room off of the back of the library.

Hmmmm , I guess their "theory" was either. You two will [kill each other]...or perhaps make [peace].

I'm still floppin,

ex-Cooler dogs

edit; Only thing I had in common with these guys[thugs] were...[Old] National Geographic magazine, tribal woman . If ya want to call that "bonding"

[ September 29, 2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 29, 2005, 12:08 PM:
 
Leonard, since you threw my name into the thread I guess I can respond. I was glad to see everyone not directly involved stay out of the melee. A dogpile would likely happen in other sites.
One of the defects of this medium is the ease with which it is possible to get sideways with another when correponding in the written word and out of range of the other.
At one time or another, Vic, Scott and I have offered to pound the other's head flat. Having met and spent some time with each I would join either one for a hunt or any get together in a heartbeat.
And I know that both give me a lot more slack than they would before.
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on September 29, 2005, 12:52 PM:
 
Rich, Just don't start.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 01:06 PM:
 
HEHEHEHE

Rich, I noticed that your name was listed twice...

BTW, where in MO were you from. At least I thought I read somewhere you hailed from this country.

Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2005, 01:13 PM:
 
I threw your name in twice.

Once, because just like in Kindergarten, you don't play well with others; and the other time was getting Bruce's horse loaded; which sounds a whole lot easier than it turned out. I still don't know how you did it? And, by the time you were through, he WANTED to get in!

So, you get two free passes...
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 01:28 PM:
 
No, I saw it listed as round 1- Higgens vs Carlson and round 2- Higgens vs Scott. Thats the two I was lookin at.

Seems Im not the only one that dont play well with others.....



Andy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 29, 2005, 01:30 PM:
 
Leonard, it's no wonder I was a hammer and shovel guy for 30 years, and not a writer. The "gotcha" I ended my short post with was not to be read as a, ha ha gotcha kind of thing, but a gotcha, as in I hear ya, I get you,I understand you....that kind of gotcha. When I read your critique, I understood what it might have looked like, so I changed it, end of story.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2005, 01:42 PM:
 
Okay, "Got it". I thought it was out of character, and I did misunderstand. Sorry.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 02:14 PM:
 
Leonard could be the great peace maker. Or, then again, he may be the anti-christ....

Andy
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on September 29, 2005, 05:27 PM:
 
Stealing lines from Tombstone Andy? Thats my all time favorite movie, I think I could recite it from end to end. Doc Holliday used almost the same line in describing his girlfreind.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 05:49 PM:
 
LOL, Im your huckleberry....

Why Johnny, you look like someone just walked over your grave.....

Fights not with you lunger....

I beg to differ, we had a game we didnt finish, play for blood, remember???

Alright lunger....

Say when.....

Yeah, I like it too Calvin. One of the all time best. Val Kilmer nailed it!!

Andy
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 29, 2005, 06:02 PM:
 
Andy, I lived in the Branson area for a while. Where are you?

Leonard, it's just a matter of horse whispering.
You whisper repeatedly in the horse's ear
"Horse trailer or glue factory"
They usually make the right choice.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 06:08 PM:
 
Ive spent alot of time around Branson. Lived in Springfield for a year, 89-90. I fished tournaments all over the midwest for several years and spent enough nights in Kimberling City to qualify to run for schoolboard.

What did you do in Branson, if I may ask?

Andy

[ September 30, 2005, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 29, 2005, 07:01 PM:
 
Speaking of Dogpiles, and Tombstone. I've been thinking of transferring up to Tombstone the last couple of weeks. I'd be doing the same job, just not working out of the same Office as the Boss any longer.

So for this week, I've been working the Tombstone Troubleman's position, and pretty much loving the peace and solitude.

But today, while walking up to a meter, I stepped in a dogpile. A big nice fresh stinky one. I looked around, and the front yard was full of big stinky fresh dogpiles.

It really pissed me off to know I was going to have to smell that dogpile on my shoe for the rest of the day, So I put on an old glove, and picked up one of those fresh stinky dogpiles and gave it a fling at the front door.

I've been waiting since this thread started for someone to finally bring up something that I knew enough to comment on. And as of today, I know a lot about Tombstone and dogpiles!

Thanks guys!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 29, 2005, 07:17 PM:
 
Tim,

Seein's how you brought it up, I feel the same way. (Stand by for a side track in 3..2..1...) You need to deal with it like a mailman. When some nice customer ties their mutt off at the mailbox post and the yard is full of those organic landmines, make sure to do a fly by across their nice clean porch steps or carpeted front porch and wipe your feet. Both of them. Well. I personally have never done this (wink, wink) but do know someone that has.

(BTW, it is well documented that after they have to hose the dog crap off the front steps a couple times, the dog is generally tied off elsewhere. )

And now, back to barefoot horses and anything else I know little about, but have learned some about by reading this entire thread.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 07:38 PM:
 
Tim,
Thats funny shit. Literally.


Andy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2005, 08:52 PM:
 
Now that you two have hijacked our thread.

Funny shit.

I am almost ashamed to admit it, but once I was up in the mountains with a friend and offered him a handfull of "pine cone nuts", which he immediately popped into his mouth, like sunflower seeds. I think he knew right away he had been had, from either the cookie crumbs all over his teeth, or more likely, the wide eyed look on my face. A rotten thing to do, but I still had a little grin on my face, right now, thinking about it. I was just a kid; sorta.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 09:11 PM:
 
Leonard, this is much more fun that arguing over bullshit, thats for sure.....

Andy
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 29, 2005, 09:18 PM:
 
Another dogpile story comes to my mind after reading your posts...well kind of a dogpile. We were taking our lunch siesta under the linetrucks to get out of the sun. Rudy mumbled something about needing to take a dump, so he wandered off just out of sight of the truck. Ten minutes later he wanders back to stand around the truck talking to those of us still tucked under the chassis. One of the guys snorts, christ Rudy, what did you do mess your drawers? Everyone laughs and guffaws, then one guy propped on his elbows, probably two feet aways from Rudys boots, starts laughing and points to his boots and says, christ man you brought it back with you! Ole Rudy must have taken a stutter step backwards when tuggin up his britches and stepped right in it, for curled neatly up around his boot was a inch and a half diameter tootsie roll. He thought we were pullin his leg, he looks down and says " I deed, I deed, I stepped in my sheet,sonofabeech" gawd did we get a howl out of that. I still remind him of that now and again if we have coffee in town.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 29, 2005, 09:49 PM:
 
After alot of testing and trial and error, a freind of mine that I hunt with here came to the conclusion that the only way to keep from shittin on your coveralls or bibs when hunting is to take them completely off and take ten big steps away from them before doing your business.

Works every time....



Andy
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on September 30, 2005, 06:21 AM:
 
Odd, but amusing @ times. How waste material, interjects into our lives.

1969, some misfits skipped school one early spring morn[snow still on the ground]...BAD IDEA . We had a shoddily built fort behind the cemetary.

Mid-day, we all become hungry & cold. We tallied up all our money. Not enough to feed one guy, let alone four. One guy in the group. Likened himself to "Eule Gibbon's"[sp?]"A Naturalist".

He said to us three. "You guys, go ahead en starve, I'm gonna go forage for food". Hmmmm, we chuckled at him. He walks away...About 45-minutes later. Here he comes walking back our way. Occasionally munching on something in his other hand.

As he's drawing near. We all wondered out loud, what he was eating. I remarked, He's probably eating, "rabbit poop".

Here he comes,...We all ask at the same time, "What are you eating?" He replies, "Wild edible berries" HUH! "

I said, "Let me see those"...He opens up his, "berry holding hand". I bust out laughing!!

He say's, WHAT! with edible berries mashed on his front teeth. I said, you find those in a neat pile under a bush? He say's, yah

I said, "that's rabbit poop"! He starts hacking & spitting.

We [never] let him forget. As we had to tell everyone that knew him, & even those who didn't
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2005, 03:17 PM:
 
Andy, fill us in:

quote:

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Oh, Misting is still a must.....

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