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Author
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Topic: Was It True, Leonard?
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Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6
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posted November 04, 2005 05:12 PM
Leonard
Below is an article I wrote years ago but never published. It's short and to the point. At the time you were moderating another board with an iron hand so I never posted it thinking you would heavily modify or probly delete the post. I was pissed off after learning some things and then proceeded to write the article. It was soon after that I quit varmint hunting with the clubs in disgust. I just couldn't beleive someone would do that. I'm curious what you have to say to this 10 years after the fact?
Here's the article.........................
It was a competition hunt weekend. Danny, another buddy and I were in competition with the other clubs. We knew our area, had scouted beforehand and laid down lure all along our proposed route. We had no doubt we were gonna place or win. The signs were tremendous and we knew this place from years of hunting it. What could be better than that?
The big hunt weekend arrived and we took off in hot persuit. Danny knew this area from years of hunting it. I been with him a whole bunch of times and also knew this area to be a big producer.
Once we started hunting, the bottom fell out! I'm not kidding! Every single stand we made, for hundreds of miles, produced nothing but howling packs of coyotes. We never saw anything like it before. Every single one of our pre-lured areas produced tonnes of coyotes that would only sit out at distance and howl after we started callin'. Stand after stand it was the same thing....only groups of coyotes that would sit out at distance and howl.
Now, I ask you! What the hell could cause that????????
In an area where we should have come back with at least 20 or so coyotes in a weekend we came up with squat!
So we thought maybe it was the lure? But Danny said that couldn't be. He'd never seen it happen either!
If memory serves, we came back to check-in with six coyotes. What a dissapointment!
A few months pass by and we learned thru the grape vine that one of the teams in Leonard's club found out we were going to hunt this specific area and that team, knowing this, went to the same area before ther scheduled hunt and purposly educated every coyote along our proposed route. Word was they had something to prove at our expense. What a group of SOB's! Needless to say, I was one pissed of dude!
Looking back on those events it all made perfect sense. This kind of shit don't just happen! It's the root of the bad feelings between myself and the other varmint hunting club. Leonard,why the hell would one of your teams go out just to ruin it for us?
When I heard this had happened I was really disappointed. What the hell did they think they would accomplish? It only ended up alienating our group from his.
Reminded me a lot of the old Snidley Whiplash cartoons where Snidley would put nails in the road or do anything he could think of to ruin the success of his competitors.
I know Leonard probly ain't had much to do with that situation, less I read him wrong, but we know some of his club's teams were behind it.
So there you have it Leonard. Just how you gonna answer this one or are you going to delete me?
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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".
Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted November 04, 2005 05:43 PM
Well, that's about as blantant an example of turd stirring as I have ever seen. And, for what?
Your allegations don't even deserve a response, but I'm pretty sure you'll get one.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted November 04, 2005 05:52 PM
Frank,
Why in the world after ten years of water under the bridge would you bring this up and of all places on this forum and medium? Wouldn't a personal phone call work better?
You seem prepared for his defense of his club. If you think he had something to do with it, say it. If you know who did it , confront them and either work through it like a man and go on or do your "if they hadn't" 's to them.
It sounds like the character Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite. "Boy, if only Coach had put me in we would of won state."
And in all fairness, if it was public access, the other team had as much right hunting ground other than the ground they planned to hunt if none other than to practice and save their best spots. Which one on your team didn't keep their trap shut on where you intended on hunting. Which one on your team bragged openly about how good your honey hole was for up-teen years. And to think that they single handedly educated every coyote in a hundred miles to your sequence and sound is absurd.
If this is a ruse and I ruined it I'm sorry.
But to accuse involvement of a man ,that happened to be a member of their club and just so happened to be a mod on a board they visited, when all your proof is just hearsay, is just being a sore looser. And if you are the whiner that your posts portrays, and I was somebody there that knew it, I would of told you the same thing just to see you wrench your face and fire up the fiddle.
Again maybe I read something into your post that is not there, but it sounds like sour grapes to me, and if you didn't want somebody else's opinion, you should of used the phone.
later pup
Posts: 213 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 04, 2005 06:25 PM
After 10 years????
Who lit the fuse on his Tampon????
Get over it dude.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 04, 2005 06:44 PM
NO!NO! Frank don't listen to these guys. We have to drag the identitiy of these guys out of Leonard. Anyone who can educate all the coyotes along a route hundreds of miles long that Danny had hunted for years is a GOD and we all need to worship at his feet. Give him up, Leonard.
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted November 04, 2005 06:51 PM
Frank,
10 years ago, someone yanked on your chain, and you were so upset about having a bad day, you fell for it.
My favorite quote about coyote hunting came from, I believe, Murry Burnham. "Sometimes this shit just don't work"
I had a day like that yesterday. And as much as I'd like to blame a bad day on John-Henry and his damned dogs, or a dozen other guys for educating those coyotes before I got there. I know, the truth is, the coyotes just didn't want to respond.
I picked up a good friend ( A real estate broker ) and one of his high dollar clients at 6 am. I was calling our first stand at 7:05. We called hard, all day long. Only breaking for a quick lunch. No one saw a coyote until after 3 pm, when one kicked up out of a brush pile on our way into the stand.
On the next stand, We had one back door us, I was the only one to see it and as far as I'm concerned, it didn't count as it wasn't a shootable coyote.
Next stand, second to the last of the day, these two guys are dead tired, I look over my shoulder to my left, When I looked bad forward, I had 3 coyotes standing with in 10' of the call, and no one had a rifle raised.
The coyotes spooked as I raised my camera, and neither shooter got a shot. 5 minutes later, another coyote came trotting in. Stopped behind my buddies friend ( Would have made a great picture if I had remembered to turn the camera on ) then finally got shot at as he left. Missed shot.
We made one more stand as it got dark and had another stand of nothing.
The places I took them too before lunch, I expected to have at least 6 shootable coyotes in front of them. We saw zero.
After lunch, I took them to a place that I always have great luck in. We saw zero.
I finally took them to a place I've only taken people to once before. One of my private honey holes. That was the only place we saw shooters, and they were too tired by then to see them.
I really think someone just wanted to try to take credit for screwing up your bad day. I wanted to blame anyone else that I could think of yesterday. But the truth is, sometimes this shit just don't work.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted November 04, 2005 06:57 PM
Frank...I know Leonard through internet discussion here and on another forum and I know certain this is not the type of man to go pour bottles of freshly strained Budweiser piss and shoot at every dog off a rabbit call they could miss all over your hotspots.This seems somewhat strange you would bring this to the surface publically after 10 years?Why didn`t you just ask the man about it privately then rather than do it here in front of all these folks?It is really none of my business but it sounds and appears like you have an axe with a bunch of chicken shit all over it to grind......
[ November 04, 2005, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Timberghozt ]
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http://www.handloadersbench.com
Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 07:21 PM
First of all, I have never done anything to you, Frank, or to your team. On the other hand, I believe that you have wronged me a couple of times, but I think I decided to let it go, a long time ago. Jerking the website away, was one sneaky deal. I tried to get the Board to pay you for your work and assume ownership because I thought that was what you wanted? Later, I suppose you changed your mind?
The other thing was, of course, the break up of the State Organization, which you had a hand in as a major rabble rouser, and Danny had a lot of responsibility because he could have shut you up (for lack of a better word) but he did nothing, and that was just as damaging.
However, having said that, I believe that my Club, San Gabriel Chapter bears responsibility for the entire atmosphere that caused the resentment of the other Clubs. In a nutshell, too successful. It is true that we controlled the Board for many years, but from our perspective, it was because nobody else was willing to step up to the plate. As I see it now, the unwillingness was probably a result of the same resentment. Contrary to popular opinion, in competition hunting; NOBODY loves a winner.
Anyway, it's over and it is a little sad, and it broke, but I can't see it ever see the pieces coming back together, too much water under the bridge, petty jealousies, too serious, no friendships between the Clubs, hammer and tong, 24/7.
First, I want to correct something you said. I almost never delete or edit anything, especially if it is personal, just because I can do it. I take my lumps just like everybody else.
Okay, now I remember very well the incident and the circumstances. I had no prior knowledge. When I found out, I confronted John and Ricky, and they admitted it, much as one of the previous writers speculated above. Public land, free country, etc. Another thing, they denyed shooting up every animal they saw; claimed they mad an honest attempt to kill every one that came in, but did shoot at every animal, whether it was a legitimate shot, or not.
Well, I told them what I thought of that little stunt, but they had no guilt or remorse....believe that or not. Then, you know the check in at Aberdeen Road, they were last in line, and all they needed to beat was 4 or 5 dogs, but they tossed out 24, rubbing their noses in it. I told them what I thought about that shit, too.
Your problems were not with me just because I officiated and enforced the rules. Just a lot of grown men with petty jealousies.
And, your team flat out lied to me, saying that dipshit Nick had sent in his membership money when he had not, and Danny vouched for him. I accepted your team and would have been within my rights to not allow you to hunt, but I did it, figuring we could sort it out later. No, I have always played straight with you guys, I believe totally in fairness. If a team drives 300 miles to check in, I feel a responsibility to let them hunt rather than find ways to disqualify them, or not allow them to hunt. But, if you deserve disqualification, my responsibility is to the successful team, not the guys that can't follow the rules.
Now, nobody is interested in this crap, but since you sort of double dog dared me to address this ancient history, you get your reply and nobody else gives a shit, so we are wasting resources crying over the good old days.
Good hunting. LB
edit: PS John has told me many times that if he ever meets you face to face, he intends to knock the rest of your teeth down your throat. I believe him.
edit: PPS For those that don't know, Frank built the original Huntmasters Board several years ago.
[ November 04, 2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Timberghozt
Knows what it's all about
Member # 707
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posted November 04, 2005 07:49 PM
Leonard..I figure you know me fairly well by now.I don`t cut corners on what I think and I generally say what I think politically correct or not,public opinion be damned or not..
I don`t care what board he built back when..This still comes off as a chicken shit stunt on his part to me.It is none of my business but I come to this board to read and learn from other fellas that probly know more about talking to SongDogs than I do and some that don`t and reading his crybaby shit and that is what it is, really isn`t my intent.
But he presented this horseshit for public view so I expect he wanted some feedback on it,well he got it... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ November 04, 2005, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Timberghozt ]
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http://www.handloadersbench.com
Posts: 48 | From: Salado, Texas | Registered: Sep 2005
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InjunJoe
unknown comic
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posted November 04, 2005 08:04 PM
Sounds like someone needs an inflatible sheep.
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted November 04, 2005 08:15 PM
What did I do to deserve this ![[Confused]](confused.gif) I have been sitting back not saying much of anything, then all the sudden.....KAAAAAAAAAA---F--KING---BOOOOOOOOOMMMM...Damn.....Do I deserve this? I don't think so. If you all wish to continue, go for it. I don't want nothing to do with it....God Bless. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 08:35 PM
That's fine, Danny. About what I would expect. You sound like you are unfairly being singled out for blame? Who's to blame? You, me, Frank or John and Ricky? I didn't do a god damned thing and your partner is jumping in here with acusations on a public forum. What the hell do you expect me to say? You need to take your share of responsibility, Amigo.
I didn't start this shit, but I think the points I made are perfectly valid, and accurate. You did nothing to throttle Frank and his shit stiring, and you vouched for Chastain and Nick.
So then, stay the hell out of it! You can't change the facts with a:
Poor me, "what did I do to deserve this?"
Think about it. What the hell did I do to deserve this?
Good hunting. LB
edit: nick names of the guys that you stood up for:
NICK THE PRICK and CHEAP CHASTAIN
[ November 04, 2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted November 04, 2005 09:06 PM
Proof positive as to why hunting should never be confused with a game. There is a difference.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 09:12 PM
There's no question about that, Joe. Competitive hunting is different than sport hunting. But, truthfully, those are real nick names, and boy, do they fit.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted November 04, 2005 09:28 PM
Leonard, I have no doubt. It is the word "hunting" that I get bound up about.
Maybe not even anything so simple as a word.
Sorry, the concept of "hunting" is deeply rooted in my veins.
It has nothing to do with this display, beyond my obvious objection and saying that something has been missed.
Guess I'd better consult my dictionary?
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6
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posted November 04, 2005 09:38 PM
Leonard
The point I was trying to make was that chicken shit acts like what Ricky and his team did is what breaks up an organization. He thought he was smart or something in doing what he did. But I'm sure that most here would agree that f-in with someones hunting is about the worst thing you could do. It's still as fresh in my mind as the day it happened. Soured me to varmint hunting with the clubs forever.
Other varmint hunters need to know these things if they have any dealings with the people who would do those things.
I really enjoyed my hunting with the clubs until I realized there were people that could do that kind of thing. That's when I said to hell with the whole thing. You want the clubs to come back together? I have one word for you...integrity! By all your club members!
Who wants to be part of a group that does these kinds of things to other hunters? We always hunted honest unlike some others who had an axe to grind....and for what reason I don't know? As Chastain was fond of saying "to be what? king turd of shit island"?
As for Nick not paying his dues, he ensured us that he had payed and we took him at his word. Obviously he lied to everybody involved and that ain't my fault. We didn't know he was a snake. Same with Chastain who I still think was a plant. He purposly rocked the stand so I couldn't get a shot off starting from the first stand of the day. I had the coyote dead to rights until he started rocking the stand! He tried to sabotage the hunt by yelling, talking loud and rocking the stand so no one could get a steady shot. When his turn came his shooting was so bad I was forced to conclude he was missing coyotes on purpose. He was also fomenting discontent and trying to start fights. He and Nick almost went at it. Would have if I hadn't stopped them.
If you want to know who broke up the org just look within your own club for the answers. There was no justifiable reason for messin with our team. All we wanted was to hunt and have fun doing it. Winning was secondary......at least to me.......I Can't speak for Danny cuz he's always been a diehard.....God love him.
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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".
Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 09:44 PM
How about this one Danny?
Let's go back twelve years. Your Club wanted a late checkin but nobody wanted to volunteer to stay two hours. So, you volunteered. But, you never showed up and I practically had a riot on my hands because of you. Everybody was chomping at the bit, ready to hit the road and screaming at me, telling me that now I had to wait there for two hours in case somebody checked in late.
What the hell did I do to deserve that?
Yeah, you did that to me personally, but I never made any sort of big deal over it, and all we ever heard from you was some lame excuse that you were at a different location, waiting. Yeah, sure.
Just don't give me the innocent act on this deal. It certainly had nothing to do with me. Your bitch was with Ricky and John and nobody else, yet you guys threw gas on the fire and burned the whole place down....with a little help.
I will give Hi Desert credit for one thing though. You just quit and walked away, and didn't try to rob and pillage the treasury, or ban San Gabriel from the State.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 09:50 PM
quote:
If you want to know who broke up the org just look within your own club for the answers.
I admit that, Frank. I felt as bad about it as you did, and I told every one of them s what I thought of their chicken shit plan; right to their faces. Did you?
edit: It is unfortunate, Frank. But, if you are hunting with them guys, you are all in the same boat. YOU KNOW THAT.
[ November 04, 2005, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted November 04, 2005 10:22 PM
Leonard....What are you trying to say or do here? I'm not here to start anything, I don't want anything to do with this BS. I am not responcible for what others say or do, are you? Somehow I have a feeling there is alot more to this then meets the eye. I do believe it would be a good idea to drop this subject all together, don't you?
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 04, 2005 10:35 PM
Frank is good at coming in to these boards just to cause a rumble and then leaves. Danny you should be focusing on Frank for stirring this pot.
Mrs. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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onecoyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 129
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posted November 04, 2005 10:50 PM
I am not focusing on anybody...I just don't want any part of this conversation. It's bad for this board and bad for the sport...we don't need it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Great minds discuss ideas.....Average minds discuss events.....Small minds discuss people.....Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 893 | From: Walker Lake Nevada. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6
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posted November 04, 2005 10:50 PM
Leonard
Based on my dealings with you as hunt chairman I've always had the utmost of respect. I've seldom questioned your personal integrity.
All bullshit aside, you are in a position to bring the clubs back together......if that's what you want.
All it takes is for there to be no doubt among the various clubs that you will maintain integrity. If that means calling a spade a spade when you see it then so be it......even if they are people you know personally.
The memorial hunts of past dedicated to Jim Struble (God love him) should be dedicated to honesty and integrity in the hunts.....that's what he would have wanted above all!
I should know, he was my best friend. I miss him dearly.
Frank
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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".
Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 05, 2005 01:04 PM
quote:
It is the word "hunting" that I get bound up about.
Maybe not even anything so simple as a word.
Sorry, the concept of "hunting" is deeply rooted in my veins. JoeF
Joe, you are entitled to an opinion as is everyone else. If you can't find a way to consider contest hunting as any form of hunting, then we have the proverbial "slippery slope".
See, I don't exactly approve of any form of chasing animals with dogs, but I would strenously defend their right to do so, and call it a form of hunting. I also don't see much sport in slaughtering 700 ground squirrels from a table, like a video game, but it is a form of hunting that I can defend. And, we won't even get into bowhunting, and the suffering, since it is legitimate and a time honored pursuit, but not my bag.
The anti's love to see us question these various types of hunting and trapping, so to offer negative opinions is just falling into a trap...no pun intended.
Hunting is hunting and humans are competitive, whether it is washing your car or mowing a lawn, people tend to want to compete at some level. Hell, my sister-in-law competes at decorating Christmas trees to the tune of thousands of dollars. What's that about?
Not picking you out for attention, but I feel that I do have to defend an activity that I have invested a lot of time and effort into and I don't consider it to be a monstrosity in disguise, and inferior to our bucolic gentry pursuing woodcock.
In other words, judgement calls are better left to the PETAs of the world.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted November 05, 2005 02:27 PM
Leonard, I certainly deserve to be singled out. My thoughts and personal definitions; like this thread, should have never been made public.
Not from a PETA stance, more of a Rodney King kinda thing.
I'll post more when I have the time.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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InjunJoe
unknown comic
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posted November 05, 2005 02:42 PM
made.
[ November 05, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: InjunJoe ]
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